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[Bernkastel]

Re-buying something because that's the only option you have is not DRM, what a weird and absurd thing to say.

The compatible OG Xbox games have been available digitally across generations as well and it benefits people who already own them to be able to play them on the current gen from their original purchase.

All online stores are DRM(except for GOG in Linux/Lutris/Heroic). The true no DRM is for it to be like PS2 and fat PS3 where you insert a disc and the game plays. Theres no point in collecting a disc if its gonna connect to internet to play the game.

 

[adamsapple]

All online stores are DRM(except for GOG in Linux/Lutris/Heroic). The true no DRM is for it to be like PS2 and fat PS3 where you insert a disc and the game plays. Theres no point in collecting a disc if its gonna connect to internet to play the game.

Again, needing to rebuy something because you don't have any other option =/= DRM.

If you have other reservations with DRM, that's fine. This comparison makes no sense.

 

[Bernkastel]

Again, needing to rebuy something because you don't have any other option =/= DRM.

If you have other reservations with DRM, that's fine. This comparison makes no sense.

How many people who bought physical discs of OG Xbox are still invested in Xbox. Keep in mind that OG Xbox didn't have digital store. Ultimately buying a digital copy is cheaper than getting a physical copy from ebay to use it to download the game.

 

[adamsapple]

How many people who bought physical discs of OG Xbox are still invested in Xbox. Keep in mind that OG Xbox didn't have digital store. Ultimately buying a digital copy is cheaper than getting a physical copy from ebay to use it to download the game.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand. Even if it's just one person, the program exists.

It's an incentive for those who are and it doesn't just apply to OG Xbox, a decent number of X360 games are also supported. Many games also get free 'remaster' like enhancements out of the box as well.

 

[Mattyp]

Inserting a disc and the game gets downloaded from the Interent in a unhackable console that forces you to have a Microsoft account is as much of a DRM as buying a game digitally. Physical games are supposed to be DRM free, and whatever Xbox is doing is as much of a DRM as Playstation classics. Buying a PS2 game digitally is cheaper than getting a used Physical copy on eBay.

Seriously, most people didn't even have a OG Xbox. And most that did are not on Xbox anymore.

Rebuying something you already own is good because DRM anyway?

Whatthefuck.gif

 

[rkofan87]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't think they should try to put every game on every generation. I can see the case for some games getting the remake treatment, but why everything, every gen? That sounds more like a convenience for people who don't keep what they buy, or for those that just want to complain because they didn't bother buying a specific game they were otherwise interested in. If that's the case, why didn't they buy it? Why didn't they keep it?

for me I don't have the space for it so I'd rather get a couple bucks worth than have a gather dust in a closet

 

[rkofan87]

Selling a port of a PS1 game as-is, without any enhancements, would be 1/ a tough sell and 2/ still require money/work to either create or license emulation software.

they sadly did it with fear effect

 

[jshackles]

As someone who enjoys Retro Achievements for emulated games, I feel like that is the bare minimum amount of effort required to pitch me on a remaster. Most of these old games getting "remastered" don't have achievements / trophies, which instantly makes them a worse option that emulation.

 

[Bernkastel]

Rebuying something you already own is good because DRM anyway?

Whatthefuck.gif

How many people who own OG Xbox discs are in current Xbox?

Irrelevant to the topic at hand. Even if it's just one person, the program exists.

It's an incentive for those who are and it doesn't just apply to OG Xbox, a decent number of X360 games are also supported. Many games also get free 'remaster' like enhancements out of the box as well.

Flaunting "you have don't have to rebuy" is pointless when most people do have to buy those games.

 

[Mattyp]

How many people who own OG Xbox discs are in current Xbox?

The two people you're replying to on this thread to at a minimum in your last comment.

Weirdest thing to downplay, physical backwards support should always be the main goal. So many games are locked on physical alone.

 

[Liopleurodon]

Regardless of how much a fan of old school games I am, chances are very small that I will pay for just remaster of some old game.

It needs to be a proper remake.

Only in some rare cases, like with Suikoden, I will buy them, to support the revival of franchise.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Emulators on PC undermine this business model. You can play pretty much whatever PS1/2 game you want.

Besides it must be a goddamn minefield to figure out the licensing of 25 year old games.

 

[adamsapple]

Flaunting "you have don't have to rebuy" is pointless when most people do have to buy those games.

Again, you're completely missing the point.. The point is that those who do have them don't have to.

Emulators on PC undermine this business model. You can play pretty much whatever PS1/2 game you want.

Besides it must be a goddamn minefield to figure out the licensing of 25 year old games.

In the video, the CEO says that they've had to put down projects purely because of licensing hell.

I gotta imagine they probably have a working PS3 emulator ready too, considering RPCS3 can run on fucking phones now.

The biggest hurdle is, and always will be, licensing.

 

[RickMasters]

Why do you need to remake or remaster? What about just doing basic ports? Has everyone forgotten the word port?

Sometimes thats all thats needed. only thing necessary is good upscaling ( the daytona USA and VF2 ports on xbox 360 are great examples of this, even now, running on my series X ona 4K TV) other times they just need good CRT filters as weve seen with capcom arcade stadium and M2 and hamster ports. just preserve the original look so its looks like it used to on CRT screens.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Sony went the opposite way from PS2-3, which supported damn near full backwards compatibility to just supporting curated re-sells of "classics" for PS4/5.

On XBox series the BC with all games (including XB1) is fake. You need to be online and download the full games in order to play it. The CD you put in just acts like a license.

On PS5, offfline, I can play 100% of PS4 disc based games. Still offline every PS3 (yes even the latest slim versions) can play pretty much all PS1 discs.

Who is doing the better job at BC?

 

[adamsapple]

On XBox series the BC with all games (including XB1) is fake. You need to be online and download the full games in order to play it. The CD you put in just acts like a license.

On PS5, offfline, I can play 100% of PS4 disc based games. Still offline every PS3 (yes even the latest slim versions) can play pretty much all PS1 discs.

1. Ok .. but that's not BC what you're talking about ...
2. You can install and play XBO games on SX being offline, you just need the first time online system setup. That's something you need on PS5 as well, iirc. Also, you need a mandatory online connection to authenticate the disc drive on PS5 slim and Pro as well ... sooo ... yeah .. enjoy your paperweight for the fake CD's, I guess ??

Who is doing the better job at BC?

Currently? Xbox. Is Sony starts to allow local PS3 emulation instead of cloud-only on PS6, it might change then.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Sony starts to allow local PS3 emulation instead of cloud-only on PS6

Oh they won't do that. Sell as a PS5/6 emulator shell, maybe?

 

[Bernkastel]

Again, you're completely missing the point.. The point is that those who do have them don't have to.

But its not a gatcha against Sony when it benefits very few people. Rather how many games became BC in each platform should be compared.

The two people you're replying to on this thread to at a minimum in your last comment.

Weirdest thing to downplay, physical backwards support should always be the main goal. So many games are locked on physical alone.

Its not really physical backwards support when you have to download the game. True physical backwards compatibility was PS1 BC in PS2 and PS2 BC in fat PS3.

Oh they won't do that. Sell as a PS5/6 emulator shell, maybe?

If they have PS1/PS2/PSP classics, why would they block PS3 BC? Do you even know how hard it is to emulate PS3? For good performance in RPCS3 you need a AVX512 CPU, which are only present in AMD CPUs since 2021. RPCS3 is literal black magic and one of the most complex emulators. Also the studio that did Playstation classics releases (interview in OP) mentioned about working on PS3 BC.

PlayStation Classics studio says it’s ‘dreaming about’ PS3 emulation | VGC

Currently PS5’s PS3 classics are only playable via cloud streaming…

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[adamsapple]

But its not a gatcha against Sony when it benefits very few people. Rather how many games became BC in each platform should be compared.

Ok, how many PS3 games can be played BC on PS4/5?

Oh they won't do that. Sell as a PS5/6 emulator shell, maybe?

They've already got an audience ready to rebuy even if they own the games, that won't be surprising.

 

[Bernkastel]

Ok, how many PS3 games can be played BC on PS4/5?

None. Not because Sony does not want but because PS3 is one hardest systems to emulate. I already mentioned.

If they have PS1/PS2/PSP classics, why would they block PS3 BC? Do you even know how hard it is to emulate PS3? For good performance in RPCS3 you need a AVX512 CPU, which are only present in AMD CPUs since 2021. RPCS3 is literal black magic and one of the most complex emulators. Also the studio that did Playstation classics releases (interview in OP) mentioned about working on PS3 BC.

PlayStation Classics studio says it’s ‘dreaming about’ PS3 emulation | VGC

Currently PS5’s PS3 classics are only playable via cloud streaming…

www.videogameschronicle.com

We don't know what is coming but Sony may have some plans. You need AVX512 CPU for decent PS3 emulation.

 

[adamsapple]

None.

Being able to play a host of X360 games, a bunch with free 4K/60 support, is the kind of reason Xbox's BC is widely considered better than PS's for the last few gens.

 

[gerth666]

I am just dying for more fairly basic ports with minor enhancements. There are games I just want at 1080/4k at 60 FPS on modern consoles. Like Dead Space 1. Sure you can buy the remake but it's just not the original game and infuriatingly they can't just bundle the original game with said enhancements as a nice extra and way of preserving the original game.

I'm so tired of all the substantial remasters and full remakes when many old games just need to one just run and two be 1080/4k/60.

The way this industry works is so frustrating. The Xbox BC and FPS Boost schemes have been great but FPS Boost is only available with limited titles.

I wish publishers would do more to properly preserve older games by making more basic ports of them on consoles.

Dead space remake is far superior to the original.
Do you prefer the original?
Though I do agree there's loads of games that do not require full remakes.
I wish Sony would do simple ps5 versions of kill zone, infamous and the resistance games

 

[cireza]

But its not a gatcha against Sony when it benefits very few people.

Your entire argument in this thread is utterly ridiculous. Sony BC sucks compared to Xbox, and that's it. Turn it around as much as you want, it is the inferior experience and this is a fact.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Todd and Phil did a good job with Fallout 3 and New Vegas, I'm deep in New Vegas (my first Fallout game) and I love it. Now I understand where the hatred toward Starfield comes from. No one has to love their games but all the negative reactions from the haters are predictable, the gameplay style doesn't fit with these people taste, it's definitely not because it's worse than Todd's last game and he completely understand them.

 

[Bernkastel]

Being able to play a host of X360 games, a bunch with free 4K/60 support, is the kind of reason Xbox's BC is widely considered better than PS's for the last few gens.

And we have not seen what they will do for PS3 classics. You are literally boasting about winning emulation war against a system thats one of the hardest to emulate.

Your entire argument in this thread is utterly ridiculous. Sony BC sucks compared to Xbox, and that's it. Turn it around as much as you want, it is the inferior experience and this is a fact.

But its a fact that there are more PS2 BC games than OG Xbox BC games.

 

[Montauk]

Dead space remake is far superior to the original.
Do you prefer the original?
Though I do agree there's loads of games that do not require full remakes.
I wish Sony would do simple ps5 versions of kill zone, infamous and the resistance games

I disagree, but regardless of either of our opinions on the remake the original is, well, a different game (I said that in my comment) and one that I would like to play 1080/4k/60 on my Series X.

The remake is just not relevent to that.

 

[adamsapple]

And we have not seen what they will do for PS3 classics. You are literally boasting about winning emulation war against a system thats one of the hardest to emulate.

You can rehash this argument when we finally see what they eventually do, whether it's the next gen or the one after.

Until then, as an end-user it's inconsequential to me whether PS3 is hard to emulate or not. Implicit Conversion, a very small studio, is working on it. The might of Sony with its thousands of eningeers should have had no problem doing the same years ago.

But its a fact that there are more PS2 BC games than OG Xbox BC games.

And it's a fact that there's zero PS3 emulated games.

 

[Bernkastel]

You can rehash this argument when we finally see what they eventually do, whether it's the next gen or the one after.

Until then, as an end-user it's inconsequential to me whether PS3 is hard to emulate or not. Implicit Conversion, a very small studio, is working on it. The might of Sony with its thousands of eningeers should have had no problem doing the same years ago.



And it's a fact that there's zero PS3 emulated games.

You are not an end user for Sony. Vast majority of PS5 users are not jumping ship because there is no PS3 emulation.

 

[adamsapple]

You are not an end user for Sony. Vast majority of PS5 users are not jumping ship because there is no PS3 emulation.

A PlayStation console owner is not their end user?

 

[Bernkastel]

A PlayStation console owner is not their end user?

Everyone can pretend to be a user for console warring. Did you also not say that you got 65$ due to OtherOS case? Very convenient. You pretend how you have a PS5 and never used it because supposedly "there are no games in it".

 

[Kokoloko85]

PS3 and Vita's library of PS1/PS2/PSP and virtual library of Wii/Wiiu classics beg to differ.
Minimal investment = slow results

 

[justiceiro]

It's so bizarre that so many companies pay a few millions for old companies on the verge on the bankruptcy just to get the hold of the IPs... And then proceed to do nothing with them.

 

[adamsapple]

Everyone can pretend to be a user for console warring. Did you also not say that you got 65$ due to OtherOS case? Very convenient. You pretend how you have a PS5 and never used it because supposedly "there are no games in it".

I've had a PS5 longer than your last warrior pivot, you conspiratorial hack

 

[Bernkastel]

I've had a PS5 longer than your last warrior pivot, you conspiratorial hack

Or so you claim warrior.

 

[BlackTron]

Re-buying something because that's the only option you have is not DRM, what a weird and absurd thing to say.

I think you're conflating DRM and BC!

DRM is when there's some sort of handshake-check to verify the game. The notion of Xbox digital BC is dependent on the concept of DRM, they aren't mutually exclusive.

BC is when newer hardware plays old game. An example of BC without DRM is inserting a PS1 disc into a PS2. It plays straight from the disc, with no check, handshake, verification, download, in other words, without any DRM.

The Xbox BC is good, better than if it wasn't there. But people would like it even better if it were there without DRM; insert a 360 disc in your console, and it plays straight until/unless you update or patch it by choice. We can talk about technical challenges, yadda yadda. Doesn't change the definition of words or anything.

 

[Team Skoda]

Just port Alundra and Xenogears already. That's all that needs to be done. Everything else is piss.

 

[adamsapple]

I think you're conflating DRM and BC!

DRM is when there's some sort of handshake-check to verify the game. The notion of Xbox digital BC is dependent on the concept of DRM, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Sure, but the post I quoted said the following:

Inserting a disc and the game gets downloaded from the Interent [...] is as much of a DRM as buying a game digitally.

Having a game be downloaded after inserting the disc is decidedly not the same as needing to buy it again even if you have the disc/digital license from prior generation(s).

The whole DRM subject is a different conversation altogether.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

The reality is laziness and cheapness. I can go on my ancient crappy PC right now and download/play nearly the entire PS2 library. There is zero reason multibillion dollar Sony can't do it.

 

[BlackTron]

Sure, but the post I quoted said the following:

Inserting a disc and the game gets downloaded from the Interent [...] is as much of a DRM as buying a game digitally.

Having a game be downloaded after inserting the disc is decidedly not the same as needing to buy it again even if you have the disc/digital license from prior generation(s).

The whole DRM subject is a different conversation altogether.

It's NOT the same thing, correct. But it's not a "different conversation". The person you quoted was talking about DRM. It's right there in your quote.

That it why I say you are conflating DRM and BC.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The reality is laziness and cheapness. I can go on my ancient crappy PC right now and download/play nearly the entire PS2 library. There is zero reason multibillion dollar Sony can't do it.

One is piracy, the other is licensing costs and several other factors laid out in the OP.

 

[adamsapple]

It's NOT the same thing, correct. But it's not a "different conversation". The person you quoted was talking about DRM. It's right there in your quote.

That it why I say you are conflating DRM and BC.

No, conflating would be combining the two as a single argument, I'm doing the opposite, separating them.

The DRM tangent doesn't really belong in the conversation unless someone just uses it for muddying up the conversation. The OP video/interview has nothing to do with any kind of DRM.