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[The Elite]

I've had both the Rift and Vive preordered, and wasn't sure if I was going to keep both. I finally decided that having both was overkill, and canceled the Rift. I think the Vive is more for me.

Just a heads up if anyone is considering on canceling the Rift: There's no simple or quick 'cancel' button like Amazon. I had to email tech support with a cancel request, and then confirm the request from the email I placed the order and send 5 emails back and forth before it finally went through. Took about 10 hours until it was canceled.

Couldn't you just edit out your payment details?

It's dirty, but it's quick.

 

[Zalusithix]

I've seen some "launch lineups" for these headsets, but does anyone know of a list of exclusives for each headset? I'm hoping this will help me make up my mind. For example, has it been confirmed that Eve wont come to Vive?

Gunjack will come to Vive. I don't think anything definitive has been said one way or another in regards to Valkyrie. Might just be timed. I can't say I've been following it closely.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I've seen some "launch lineups" for these headsets, but does anyone know of a list of exclusives for each headset? I'm hoping this will help me make up my mind. For example, has it been confirmed that Eve wont come to Vive?

In the long run, Vive will likely have no exclusives; games made for Vive automatically get a wrapper that lets them run on Oculus Rift, though with worse performance than native Oculus games. Where this falls apart is the fact that Rift doesn't have motion controllers yet, so any Vive game that requires its controllers won't work. However, there's a chance (though not guaranteed) most of those games will work with Oculus Touch controllers when they come out later this year.

The Rift, on the other hand, has plenty of exclusives; any game written using its SDK will need to be ported to Vive to work, and games that Oculus helped fund development for won't be ported to Vive. However, Oculus had said they won't mind if users hack Rift games to run on the Vive, and it's very likely a Vive wrapper program will be written soon (there's already a Rift emulator for Google Cardboard). Eve Valkyrie has indeed been confirmed by Oculus to be an exclusive on PC (PSVR is getting it, though). Eve Valkyrie might just be a timed exclusive; we don't know the details.

PSVR is a different beast altogether, it's gonna get a number of exclusives just because it gets console developers who don't release games on PC, and Sony is all about the exclusives. It will however get a number of the PC VR games ported to it.

 

[Zalusithix]

The Rift, on the other hand, has plenty of exclusives; any game written using its SDK will need to be ported to Vive to work, and games that Oculus helped fund development for won't be ported to Vive.

If Oculus walks the walk with supposedly being "open" in regards to VR, then they'll support the Vive. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in a company owned by Facebook, but the profit margin is in the software for them, not the hardware. Aside from possibly having some intangible damage done to the perceived prestige nature of the brand, they have more to gain by selling software to more people.

 

[dumbo]

"Tribal instincts" review of 30 days with the Vive:
https://youtu.be/Oq5IyQOHFMw?t=1524

There is a lot of stuff in there - the first 25-ish minutes are on the practicalities of the vive, afterwards he gets into his thoughts on VR.
(I've linked to when he starts talking about room-scale/seated/standing stuff)

It's generally very interesting.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

"Tribal instincts" review of 30 days with the Vive:
https://youtu.be/Oq5IyQOHFMw?t=1524

There is a lot of stuff in there - the first 25-ish minutes are on the practicalities of the vive, afterwards he gets into his thoughts on VR.
(I've linked to when he starts talking about room-scale/seated/standing stuff)

It's generally very interesting.

That's a long one. will watch after my morning conference call. :3

 

[bloodydrake]

Pinball FX2 VR is exclusive to Rift?

for now it is and its disappointing. I love digital pinball and Tested impressions is what I've imagined.
I've forgone building a Pincab to invest in VR since I felt it would way more uses.
Things like the Retroarcade VR and digial pinball will be amazing with an arcade controller like Xarcade. I've modded my old hotrodSE to have analog nudge and dual flipper support etc.

But I'm going with Vive and really hope Micrsoft and Zen change their tune and bring this to Vive and steam as well as Farsight and Zsoft too. Roomscale movement will really bring VR arcades to life

 

[ArtHands]

In the long run, Vive will likely have no exclusives; games made for Vive automatically get a wrapper that lets them run on Oculus Rift, though with worse performance than native Oculus games. Where this falls apart is the fact that Rift doesn't have motion controllers yet, so any Vive game that requires its controllers won't work. However, there's a chance (though not guaranteed) most of those games will work with Oculus Touch controllers when they come out later this year.

The Rift, on the other hand, has plenty of exclusives; any game written using its SDK will need to be ported to Vive to work, and games that Oculus helped fund development for won't be ported to Vive. However, Oculus had said they won't mind if users hack Rift games to run on the Vive, and it's very likely a Vive wrapper program will be written soon (there's already a Rift emulator for Google Cardboard). Eve Valkyrie has indeed been confirmed by Oculus to be an exclusive on PC (PSVR is getting it, though). Eve Valkyrie might just be a timed exclusive; we don't know the details.

PSVR is a different beast altogether, it's gonna get a number of exclusives just because it gets console developers who don't release games on PC, and Sony is all about the exclusives. It will however get a number of the PC VR games ported to it.

That's not really true though. Oculus has said some of their funded games will have SteamVR integration.

 

[heavy liquid]

Couldn't you just edit out your payment details?

It's dirty, but it's quick.

That's what I did? I blacked out my name and the last digits of the order number.

 

[The Elite]

That's what I did? I blacked out my name and the last digits of the order number.

Nah. I meant on the actual order instead of emailing support. They can't charge you if they don't have your credit card number.

It would be an alternative for someone if support is taking too long.

 

[bloodydrake]

I'm now sketching out an optimal setup for a room because my DIY senses were activated.
Trying to figure out whether coiling the cable was feasible brought me to this similar Reddit about ceiling mounted Vive cables. Obviously it would create a tug on the headset if you went direct, but I would attach to a belt loop first. That creates a problem when turning around quickly with the cord extended. Would I want to create an arm to make sure the cable stays on my back as it snakes back up and avoids becoming tangled with anything?

Apparently someone has already done that.

The general gist seems to be that ceiling mounted cables can create more problems than they solve.

wouldn't a belt system that has an effective hinged arm that can fold against you if you sat down but drops down behind you when you stand but holds the cables about a foot away from behind you be a better idea?
It would just stop the cables from hanging over your feet and keep them abit away from you..without needing really crazy expensive retracting systems on your rooms ceiling.

 

[artsi]

Nah. I meant on the actual order instead of emailing support. They can't charge you if they don't have your credit card number.

It would be an alternative for someone if support is taking too long.

Canceling it is still the right way IMO, so the ones behind you in queue can get their HMD faster.

If they can't charge the card before shipment the HMD will still be reserved for a while, as they wait for you to update the payment information.

 

[heavy liquid]

Nah. I meant on the actual order instead of emailing support. They can't charge you if they don't have your credit card number.

It would be an alternative for someone if support is taking too long.

Ah, yeah. If I was in a rush that might be a good idea. I paid through PayPal, so I wasn't sure if that would affect it, either.

 

[Dreamwriter]

That's not really true though. Oculus has said some of their funded games will have SteamVR integration.

They were more far more vague about it than that:

Some of our titles might end up on other headsets at some point, but I am not going to make any promises when we are still rushing to launch our own product

The whole reason Oculus funded development for games was to have a number of Rift titles available so that people would buy the Rift; it wasn't to make money off those game sales. In fact, they've said they'll probably stop publishing their own games once enough development is happening on its own.

 

[ArtHands]

They were more far more vague about it than that:



The whole reason Oculus funded development for games was to have a number of Rift titles available so that people would buy the Rift; it wasn't to make money off those game sales. In fact, they've said they'll probably stop publishing their own games once enough development is happening on its own.

The comment you quoted was more than half year ago though. Perhaps things has changed and firmed up, as the comment about some of their funded titles being on steamvr, was made 2 months ago.

I also wish whatever 3rd party exclusives that Sony has on psvr will eventually come to Vive and Rift too.

 

[Zalusithix]

for now it is and its disappointing. I love digital pinball and Tested impressions is what I've imagined.
I've forgone building a Pincab to invest in VR since I felt it would way more uses.
Things like the Retroarcade VR and digial pinball will be amazing with an arcade controller like Xarcade. I've modded my old hotrodSE to have analog nudge and dual flipper support etc.


But I'm going with Vive and really hope Micrsoft and Zen change their tune and bring this to Vive and steam as well as Farsight and Zsoft too. Roomscale movement will really bring VR arcades to life

The interesting part about 1:1 movement tracking in VR is that you could technically get away without any built in sensors. In the case of the Vive, you could drop a wand into a slot in the mock machine and presto. Not only would it automatically align the virtual pinball machine with where the controller is in relation to you, it would have complete readouts of every little movement you impart to it. Get a bit fancier and throw some solenoids in there for some subtle haptic feedback on flipper actuation. Make a few of these things and you could walk between virtual machines. Oh the possibilities for the future.

 

[nilbog21]

Pretty sure everybody who buys psvr/Rift will look at the vive and end up spending $1200 on VR

 

[SomTervo]

Pretty sure everybody who buys psvr/Rift will look at the vive and end up spending $1200 on VR

The problem with Vive for me is that, to get the most out of it, Imma have to buy a new 3D card, probably when the Pascal ones come out. So in total I'm probably looking at £1,000 (like $1,900).

edit: still doing it, though

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

You need to be able to hold a steady 90fps. Low end PCs cant do that.

http://computerbase.de/2016-03/systemanforderungen-vr-spiele-benchmarks/2/

MiniGolfVR unplayabale on a 970.
HoverJunkers even runs on a 770.
Eliteangerous on Ultra doesnt even run well on a 980.
Eliteangerous on Hig runs on a 970.

These are just the minimum specs.

I mean for things like New Retro Arcade, a Virtual Cinema and such things a low-end PC might be okay, but not for "normal" games.

Do VR games still have graphical sliders like non VR? I hope not cause unlike non VR you can get away with frame drops.

 

[Zalusithix]

Do VR games still have graphical sliders like non VR? I hope not cause unlike non VR you can get away with frame drops.

Depends on the game. There's no good reason to not have options on the PC front. If you want one stop no settings allowed VR, then go with the PSVR. The strength of PCs is in their flexibility. They just have to ensure the minimum settings work on baseline hardware acceptably.

 

[The Chef]

Pretty sure everybody who buys psvr/Rift will look at the vive and end up spending $1200 on VR

Im planning on preordering the PSVR the moment its available and I'll totally admit I think the Vive is easily the best of the 3 from what I've seen. But there is just no way ever I will build a $1500 machine to be able to use it.

Spoiler

I dont even know if $1500 would cover it honestly

 

[Cyriades]

This may be surprise but actually, sub-pixel wise, PSVR has the Rift and Vive beat on that department as they're using the full RGB 1080p spectrum and not the pentile screens that the other two use.

RGB "HTC One X" vs Pentile "HTC One S"

 

[mrklaw]

I'm fine with Oculus funding their own games.

I'm less fine if they are doing any kind of payments to prevent software going to the Vive.

The grey area is if they are effectively funding the 'update game X for VR' costs. Eg Would pinball FX or Vanishing of Ethan Carter have any official VR mode unless Oculus was involved?

I'd like to think there isn't much of that happening, and realistically this is just the combination of several simple factors
- devs have had Oculus devkits and tools for a lot longer
- devs were working towards OR potentially being out last year with no sign of an official Vive release until the last moment, so they are continuing to focus on getting the OR version out of the door
- Because of 1&2, developers are likely to be using the Oculus SDK so releasing the same software for vive won't work
- lastly, it was Oculus' prerelease preview, so I assume developers would have been briefed to try and focus talk on their upcoming OR release. I think after OR launches they'll hopefully have more to say about Vive versions

 

[ArtHands]

I'm fine with Oculus funding their own games.

I'm less fine if they are doing any kind of payments to prevent software going to the Vive.

The grey area is if they are effectively funding the 'update game X for VR' costs. Eg Would pinball FX or Vanishing of Ethan Carter have any official VR mode unless Oculus was involved?

I'd like to think there isn't much of that happening, and realistically this is just the combination of several simple factors
- devs have had Oculus devkits and tools for a lot longer
- devs were working towards OR potentially being out last year with no sign of an official Vive release until the last moment, so they are continuing to focus on getting the OR version out of the door
- Because of 1&2, developers are likely to be using the Oculus SDK so releasing the same software for vive won't work
- lastly, it was Oculus' prerelease preview, so I assume developers would have been briefed to try and focus talk on their upcoming OR release. I think after OR launches they'll hopefully have more to say about Vive versions

I think lots of developers didn't talk about Vive versions, because they supplied quite a limited number of dev kits to the developers early on. It was only early this year when they started pushing out much more Vive Pre dev kits. I believe there will be more titles announcement that will be compatible with Vive in the coming months.

 

[Stasis]

Other than a small home gym and closed off office and bathroom I've got a whole basement to work with. I can't wait to get started on that. Going to make a nice-sized VR "play room" down there with covers/padding for the few obstacles or breakables. Like flush mounting our home cinema TV in the wall with a sliding cover, etc.

So much hype. Can't wait to see what plans ppl come up with.

 

[Mikeside]

Other than a small home gym and closed off office and bathroom I've got a whole basement to work with. I can't wait to get started on that. Going to make a nice-sized VR "play room" down there with covers/padding for the few obstacles or breakables. Like flush mounting our home cinema TV in the wall with a sliding cover, etc.

So much hype. Can't wait to see what plans ppl come up with.

Jealous as fuck.

 

[CortexVortex]

Pretty sure everybody who buys psvr/Rift will look at the vive and end up spending $1200 on VR

No way I'm gonna spend that much money for VR.
Looking at the upcoming games I'm pretty sure that I will be more than happy with my PSVR.

 

[Onemic]

Elite Dangerous requires a 980Ti to run on Ultra in VR? Wheres the confirmation on this?

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Depends on the game. There's no good reason to not have options on the PC front. If you want one stop no settings allowed VR, then go with the PSVR. The strength of PCs is in their flexibility. They just have to ensure the minimum settings work on baseline hardware acceptably.

My issue is that it's going to be very hard to choose a graphics option to run at a constant 90fps with xy and z settings without any idea if your setup can handle it, I thought the whole thing of the Rift and Vive tests was to confirm you're all good for VR and the games are built around it. I have a good PC with a 980ti, but I hope you're actually given good guides with the games as to what settings you should have the game set at, so you get a flawless 90fps

 

[mrklaw]

cross posting from the PSVR thread because this applies to Vive too


headphones is going to take some figuring out. I might run a permanent set of earphones and tape the cable to the VR headset cable to avoid getting tangled in it, and also attach it somehow to the headset so they're easy to insert when I'm wearing it, and there isn't any strain on the cable pulling them out of my ears.

Over the ear just seems like it'd be annoying and not less comfortable. Although at least with Vive you could easily reach for them using the front camera feed.

 

[Mikeside]

My issue is that it's going to be very hard to choose a graphics option to run at a constant 90fps with xy and z settings without any idea if your setup can handle it, I thought the whole thing of the Rift and Vive tests was to confirm you're all good for VR and the games are built around it. I have a good PC with a 980ti, but I hope you're actually given good guides with the games as to what settings you should have the game set at, so you get a flawless 90fps

ideally there would be a benchmarking tool that would run and detect ideal settings to max out the visuals and remain at 90fps

 

[Zalusithix]

Elite Dangerous requires a 980Ti to run on Ultra in VR? Wheres the confirmation on this?

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-03/systemanforderungen-vr-spiele-benchmarks/2/

My issue is that it's going to be very hard to choose a graphics option to run at a constant 90fps with xy and z settings without any idea if your setup can handle it, I thought the whole thing of the Rift and Vive tests was to confirm you're all good for VR and the games are built around it. I have a good PC with a 980ti, but I hope you're actually given good guides with the games as to what settings you should have the game set at, so you get a flawless 90fps

The test was to meet a minimum. Not to specify a maximum. There's plenty of solutions to the "can I hit 90FPS" problem including integrated benchmarks. Heck, failing that, run an external benchmark on some playing via second screen if the thought of dropping below 90 FPS in testing scares you.

 

[mrklaw]

ideally there would be a benchmarking tool that would run and detect ideal settings to max out the visuals and remain at 90fps

Well ideally we'd have had that over the last 20 years of gaming on PC but it never seems to materialise. I'd like one for my monitor gaming almost as much as for VR.

Maybe VR will provide some impetus for that, but it is a concern for me too.

 

[Onemic]

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-03/systemanforderungen-vr-spiele-benchmarks/2/


The test was to meet a minimum. Not to specify a maximum. There's plenty of solutions to the "can I hit 90FPS" problem including integrated benchmarks. Heck, failing that, run an external benchmark on some playing via second screen if the thought of dropping below 90 FPS in testing scares you.

Wow, the game is terribly optimized for AMD cards. How is a FuryX and a 390X doing worse than a 970?(The FuryX is even performing worse than the 390X)

Well that seals it. I'm 100% waiting for Pascal to release in May. Hopefully my Vive ships towards the end of the month instead of the beginning.

 

[Zalusithix]

Well ideally we'd have had that over the last 20 years of gaming on PC but it never seems to materialise. I'd like one for my monitor gaming almost as much as for VR.

Maybe VR will provide some impetus for that, but it is a concern for me too.

Perhaps it'll just become best practice for VR games to have an obvious visual marker that your frametimes have exceeded the maximum required for 90FPS. Some big red stop sign that materializes in front of you or something and pauses the game. =P

 

[Shotterke]

RGB "HTC One X" vs Pentile "HTC One S"

720 x 1280 pixels vs 540 x 960 pixels

 

[Durante]

Other than a small home gym and closed off office and bathroom I've got a whole basement to work with. I can't wait to get started on that. Going to make a nice-sized VR "play room" down there with covers/padding for the few obstacles or breakables. Like flush mounting our home cinema TV in the wall with a sliding cover, etc.

So much hype. Can't wait to see what plans ppl come up with.

Yeah, I still hope someone comes up with the perfect (and relatively simple way) to ceiling mount the cables before push comes to shove and I need to actually start working on getting my room ready

cross posting from the PSVR thread because this applies to Vive too


headphones is going to take some figuring out. I might run a permanent set of earphones and tape the cable to the VR headset cable to avoid getting tangled in it, and also attach it somehow to the headset so they're easy to insert when I'm wearing it, and there isn't any strain on the cable pulling them out of my ears.

Over the ear just seems like it'd be annoying and not less comfortable. Although at least with Vive you could easily reach for them using the front camera feed.

I can't wear anything other than over-ear headphones comfortably for any length of time, so that's what it will be for me. I guess it would be ideal to get a pair with a detachable cable and try to find a very short cable.

 

[Cyriades]

720 x 1280 pixels vs 540 x 960 pixels

Galaxy S4 pentile 441 ppi vs HTC One rgb 469 ppi both 1080p

Google Nexus 316 ppi pentile vs HTC One X 312 ppi rgb both 720p

Not sure why would anyone ever want to use PenTile instead of RGB.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

cross posting from the PSVR thread because this applies to Vive too


headphones is going to take some figuring out. I might run a permanent set of earphones and tape the cable to the VR headset cable to avoid getting tangled in it, and also attach it somehow to the headset so they're easy to insert when I'm wearing it, and there isn't any strain on the cable pulling them out of my ears.

Over the ear just seems like it'd be annoying and not less comfortable. Although at least with Vive you could easily reach for them using the front camera feed.

circumaural cans are simply the best for long gaming sessions. Accept no substitutes.

I can wear my D7000 literally 20 hours/day and never feel anything but comfort. In fact, I do wear them about 15 hours/day. Just gotta make sure the pads are truly *soft*. The current ATH-M50s are very soft, as I recall. The Fidelio X1 pads are also soft enough for all-day wear.

 

[Durante]

Galaxy S4 pentile 441 ppi vs HTC One rgb 469 ppi both 1080p

These tiny images of random phones are utterly useless, the only thing they seem to compare is color balance which is completely orthogonal to subpixel arrangement.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Galaxy S4 pentile 441 ppi vs HTC One rgb 469 ppi both 1080p

Google Nexus 316 ppi pentile vs HTC One X 312 ppi rgb both 720p

Not sure why would anyone ever want to use PenTile instead of RGB.

Yea RGB looks better (well, brighter?). But I'd be lying if I told you I saw enough of a difference here to care about. Maybe I'll care more when I can compare my future PSVR with my nearly-present Vive. But...probably not.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I'm not sure that comparing different phones' RGB vs PenTile displays really tells the whole story. There's more to a display than the subpixel arrangement.

 

[Cyriades]

These tiny images of random phones are utterly useless, the only thing they seem to compare is color balance which is completely orthogonal to subpixel arrangement.

Yea RGB looks better (well, brighter?). But I'd be lying if I told you I saw enough of a difference here to care about. Maybe I'll care more when I can compare my future PSVR with my nearly-present Vive. But...probably not.

Carmack himself said he would perfer RGB over Pentile. The Rift resolution choice was made for marketing reasons.

John Carmack ‏@ID_AA_Carmack 23m23 minutes ago
While the marketing decision is clear, on a purely technical level I might prefer a 2560 RGB stripe display over a 4k pentile one.

 

[Bsigg12]

Carmack himself said he would perfer 1080p RGB.

Wasn't that in regards to the Galaxy S7 and GearVR?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Carmack himself said he would perfer 1080p RGB.

Cool? That said, I can't say that I'm going to care. I doubt anyone is going to return their Rift or Vive because damn that pentile display! We can move along.

 

[Durante]

I'm not sure that comparing different phones' RGB vs PenTile displays really tells the whole story. There's more to a display than the subpixel arrangement.

Absolutely. And comparing those phones' displays using tiny pictures which don't even show the subpixel layout makes even less sense.

The things which are really important for VR, like display fill rate, are mostly orthogonal to subpixel layout. And you certainly can't compare them by looking at completely different displays!

Carmack himself said he would perfer 1080p RGB.

The quote you posted says that he would prefer a 1440p RGB layout panel over a 4k pentile one, it says nothing about 1080p. But more importantly, what was the context?

 

[Dreamwriter]

The only time using DK2 I noticed a problem caused by Pentile was Elite Dangerous' HUD. The HUD was orange, which was the worst color for Pentile for text, combined with the low resolution of the DK2 screen making it hard to read the text without getting closer to the HUD. The higher resolution (and more used space) of the CV1 screens might fix that issue (assuming CV1 really is using a pentile screen). On DK2 you could fix the problem in Elite by hacking the HUD to be a different color (Cyan worked great).

 

[Krejlooc]

I sold one of my rift dk2s and my razer hydra for the cost of an htc vive, basically a straight up trade. Guess whoever bought it couldnt wait. I still have an unopened dk2 from launch that I have for collectors reasons, and sixense is supposedly shipping next month, so I feel like I really didnt lose anything.

Those rift dk2s wound up appreciating wonderfully in value. I bought 4 total over the years for about $1400, and have sold 3 thus far for about $3200.

 

[Cyriades]

Absolutely. And comparing those phones' displays using tiny pictures which don't even show the subpixel layout makes even less sense.

The things which are really important for VR, like display fill rate, are mostly orthogonal to subpixel layout. And you certainly can't compare them by looking at completely different displays!

The quote you posted says that he would prefer a 1440p RGB layout panel over a 4k pentile one, it says nothing about 1080p. But more importantly, what was the context?

Lower res RGB display over a 4k Pentile. That's the context.

PSVR is 1080p RGB, The others are 1440p Pentile. Apply John Carmack Logic.

 

[Zalusithix]

Lower res RGB display over a 4k Pentile. That's the context.

And it was a "might". In other words, he hasn't directly compared them in the usage case, and this whole conversation is pointless.