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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
Maybe have a look @ this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq5IyQOHFMw
I think the room scale function gives so much to the overall experience.
the guy sending them out had a half day.
It was literally a handful, right? Really weird. I can only imagine it was some mistake, otherwise there should at least be a few hundred.
All of this is a bit pointless till they are out and people put them to the test, as well as seeing how developer adoption / exploration goes for certain types of games and modalities. People talk about the "look" of something like controllers being better than something else or their ideas for what will see future adoption with only scattered, controlled or vague impressions. As an experiential medium, it's all going to be individual to each person, games and situations. VR as it is now isn't particularly predictable.
Given the fact that Touch is optional and that late to the game, if Vive is not successful enough to motivate developers to use the room tracking and motion controls you won't see that many games using motion controls at all and that will drive the adoption of Touch into the ground too. Vicious circle.
habithipster
Member
But then imagine stepping out of your car for a moment to stretch your legs and take in the scenery. Or taking a short walk around your Elite flight deck, giving your crew commands, maybe closing some valves and pulling some levers before sitting back down to engage in battle.
I don't know if these games support this, but I think room scale could be a nice addition to many seated games too.
artsi
Member
People have been doing that with DK2 already though, Vive's forte is occlusion free motion controls which do little in those games. The Rift HMD itself can be tracked in 360 degrees and across the room easily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POGGklAK1fM
For me personally, it just isn't that exciting to be given a standard controller and explore VR with games like the above with VR shoehorned in. I guess it isn't what I want primarily, but certainly can see myself having some fun with them and there is no doubt lots of cool stuff that could be done. Ultimately though, the vast majority represent a passive experience, sat down or stood up with little agency in the world outside of the predefined actions expected of a traditionally controlled game - most suitable to the traditional genres everyone already knows and loves
The excitement for me is seeing completely different games, genres and experiences in VR arriving that fully utilise a gestural systems and the freedom of interaction, agency and movement. So far, all that I have tried in this vein has been utterly sensational and has boundless potential and room for innovation.
What do you lose by not preordering?
plagiarize
Banned
Didn't get one either yet, huh? Same here.
tested chat about VR again https://youtu.be/jTaeXuMQXx0?t=3661
interesting discussion about the cons of chaperone and room scale. Good to see some practical, constructive criticism after all the controlled demos which were clearly designed to the spaces they used.
edit: Now I'm thinking about buying a 2m x 2m rug for my room to help with knowing where my boundaries are
interesting discussion about the cons of chaperone and room scale. Good to see some practical, constructive criticism after all the controlled demos which were clearly designed to the spaces they used.
edit: Now I'm thinking about buying a 2m x 2m rug for my room to help with knowing where my boundaries are
The Elite
BOSS
I am not a kickstarter backer but it's a little surprising to see even those who are backers still not receive their emails. It just seemed to be a select few.
I thought they would tear through the kickstarter backers first and then deal with everyone else a day later. That doesn't seem to be the case.
At this point I am just assuming the plan is to ship on the 28th and that's it. I kind of wish Oculus was willing to communicate a little more in regards to their shipping.
UnrealEck
Member
Watched it already.
I feel I need to say this again. I don't mean room-scale isn't good. I mean I don't think walking around will be the norm in games. A step or two, sure but not actually walking around. Too few people have the space for it. I do think 360 degrees, crouching, dodging and so on are or should be a big part of Rift and Vive's generation though.
I agree with you. There simply isn't space. You need proper 15ft x 15ft spaces to be able to walk around. In real world setups most people will have the space to move maybe a step in each direction, or walk around in a tiny circle. Enough for things like tilt brush or Space Pirate trainer but not much more. Constantly bumping into the chaperone, smacking your controller on your light fittings and walls, resetting your location within the chaperone bounds - all will happen a lot once real people get these into real homes.
I.e room scale is more like '360 standing +'
It is still amazing though.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It's always worth re-iterating that the truly new experience that VR will bring that the vast majority won't be restricted in experiencing will be the ones that make full use of the motion controls. No doubt that some movement adds something extra to that, but it's actually seeing your hands and being able to do anything with them, even if it is just in a 180 degree space in front of you, that is fucking amazing and completely new.
Me too
Essentially if we Kickstarter backers in the UK (ie me) don't get a dispatch notice today, there is zero chance we will get it on the 28th.
Tomorrow (Friday) and Monday are both bank holidays over here so nothing will happen on those days. Sunday is obviously another day where nothing will happen, which just leaves Saturday as a potential dispatch day... (to possibly arrive later the following week).
THEN AGAIN, I did receive both my Kickstarter DK1 and preorder DK2 BEFORE I had even received my dispatch email (which arrived a few days later in both cases)
So there is still hope for receiving it on Tuesday/Wednesday.GuitarAtomik
Member
I think that would be the best approach. Basically follow the monthly indie thread model since a lot of these game are going to be smaller experiences. Then some of the bigger or higher profile games can get their own OTs as necessary.
What's the deal with this game exactly? I've looked in to it before and the best I can figure is it's sort of an adventure game with a bunch of smaller games in it.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Just saw that in the VN thread:
https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199081718&postcount=6921
https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199081718&postcount=6921
oh sure. And that brings Oculus Rift and Oculus Touch back into play in a big way, if its the motion rather than the walking that is the real game changer. If so, then both platforms will effectively be at rough parity at the end of the year.
Any idea how long of a wait I would be looking at if I tried to order the Rift?
Edit: just looked at the preorder page and estimate is July.
I'm still tempted to go for the rift over the psvr. Having it for PC and the potential of the rifts motion control is what's making me second guess my decision.
Edit: just looked at the preorder page and estimate is July.
I'm still tempted to go for the rift over the psvr. Having it for PC and the potential of the rifts motion control is what's making me second guess my decision.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I think it's where things will generally settle in terms of the majority of development for VR. I can see why that would be disappointing for people ready to go all in on larger volume room scale experiences though, but they might need to accept that the mass market isn't ready for that yet, and may never be.
Where are you getting that info from? Budget cuts, Cloudlands, SPT, Fantastic contraption dont need anywhere near that amount of space. 15x15ft spaces are the official 'max' the lighthouses can track, but we all know that isnt true when you add more in.
I think that room scale is going to be brilliant for certain games (i.e a new wave of hidden pixel adventure games), but the teleportation moving mechanic to explore larger spaces still seems like a strange half-measure to me. It also seems strange that environments will have to be designed without stairs or inclined to prevent tripping.
I don't think that treadmills like the omni are necessarily the solution, but I have a feeling that we may have to eventually solve locomotion with a combination of joystick movement and galvanic vestibular stimulation in the future for maximum immersion.
I don't think that treadmills like the omni are necessarily the solution, but I have a feeling that we may have to eventually solve locomotion with a combination of joystick movement and galvanic vestibular stimulation in the future for maximum immersion.
I like that this is finally becoming obvious for people to see.
The amount of defending I had to pull for motion controls for VR even a few months ago was depressing.
Like how is it not obvious that having your actual hands and the ability to interact with a virtual world is so much better than the crap fart of doing so facing a 2D TV screen with compromised motion control systems like Wii-mote/nunchuck or Kinect?
B-B-Bomba!
Member
Speaking of VR leading to new types of entertainment and experiences, I'm really curious how much longer the traditional paradigm of cinema (in terms of its 2D letterbox format) will last ...
I watched a bit of the new 'desktop' demo last night, and what stuck out most for me was the contrast between the desktop experience, where you and your computer can appear to be floating over the rings of Saturn, and the home cinema demo, with the familiar Universal logo spinning into view in a cosy home cinema room.
The idea of watching a 2D film just seemed so unnecessarily constricted, given the whole environment was a plant, and could have been anything. The film seemed ... Basic, antiquated. I wanted to simply be in space, and then the Universal logo spins past me, no screen required. And then ...
I think a new artform - or rather, the space where one should be - is staring us in the face. And to tie things into the room scale discussion, I can imagine it being a fairly passive, seated medium for the audience.
I watched a bit of the new 'desktop' demo last night, and what stuck out most for me was the contrast between the desktop experience, where you and your computer can appear to be floating over the rings of Saturn, and the home cinema demo, with the familiar Universal logo spinning into view in a cosy home cinema room.
The idea of watching a 2D film just seemed so unnecessarily constricted, given the whole environment was a plant, and could have been anything. The film seemed ... Basic, antiquated. I wanted to simply be in space, and then the Universal logo spins past me, no screen required. And then ...
I think a new artform - or rather, the space where one should be - is staring us in the face. And to tie things into the room scale discussion, I can imagine it being a fairly passive, seated medium for the audience.
It's quite remarkable. I still remember being a kid and asking for the Virtual Boy for Xmas, but once I actually tried it at a mall kiosk I was obviously bitter. That night I told my parents to get me something different and of course they had just bought it and had to return it the same day.
After all this time, I'm glad I can experience this and watch its growth with adult eyes. It's the birth of a new medium and that's remarkable to witness.
This.
You burn space surprisingly quickly. Just playing around with a tape measure at home
- standing in place: 50cm (shoulder width)
- hold your arm out to the side: 75cm
- step to the side: 75cm.
so if you're standing in the centre of the minimum space (2m wide) you have about 125cm to play with on each side of you (25cm used by standing in the middle). So you can take one step to the side, or stretch your arm out to reach something, but you can't do both.
Just to be able to take one step to either side and reach out, you need a width of 3.5m, probably more than most people can manage
that's what they did with the DK1. In hindsight it was kind of funny. But at the time it was hair-pullingly frustrating.
Currently roomscale doesn't work with 5x5 anyway, but it does work with minimum 6.5x5ft. I've used a space that was about 6x8 and it works fantastically; you can walk just fine but of course it isn't going to be very far, yet it doesn't need to be since there are no real games designed to necessitate walking indefinitely or for long distances - even though once in many of the experiences, I naturally wanted to explore well beyond the bounds given. What is definitely needed is enough space to interact with objects in a near vicinity / around an opponent etc, which the minimum just about accommodates.
There are big limitations to roomscale in terms of walking since you are essentially stuck on a single flat plane. There is no way to incorporate movement along slopes / stairs etc. I would argue that this is still not a massive deal breaker for the idea of roomscale though as these can be traversed through other mechanics if necessary or even cut out / designed around.
From my experience the smallest amount of movement is such a massive difference to standing or even leaning, even if it is just a side step / strafe. It's walking around something and being able to turn around / forget about you orientation in the real room, rather than walking in a direction continuously being important. The problem with roomscale that will never go away is in the name - I will always want to have the ability to really be in a different place, to climb a slope, ladder, stairs, walk for miles etc, yet that is obviously not going to happen. That doesn't mean the games can't be incredible or that roomscale outright fails to function. For me it is a joyful stride beyond what I would consider "passive" entertainment with either sitting, standing or simply gazing around with no agency in the world or with predefined motions rather than your own. That minimum roomscale size is enough to have that agency but I think the sweet spot is a little larger at around 6x7 / 7x8 plus
Dreamwriter
Member
You'll get shipping info when it ships - we know this because the Kickstarterers got shipping info. Oculus Rift is supposed to ship out the first batch starting on Monday, so the first non-Kickstarter folks should start getting emails then.
The Elite
BOSS
You can wait for second gen VR hardware?
You have room scale capabilities?
You don't want to wait for touch controls?
I am getting a Rift but these are reasons you might wait or pick up a Vive.
Dreamwriter
Member
Rift can do room scale once the touch controls come out in a few months, just takes a bit more setup. But Bunta was talking about compared to PSVR. There's definitely no reason not to get a Rift now, except it won't ship until like July (the good news is you won't have to wait long for the Oculus Touch). In fact, if you want a Rift, best to get it now, to get the preorder bonuses.
I haven't really considered the Vive due to price.
Pretty much looking to jump in now, psvr release at the latest. I have a decent amount of room right now for room scale, I think. I don't have a problem waiting for the touch controls. Last I looked they were expected second half of 2016?
Lemonte
Member
In newest tested podcast they talk about that their lighthouses wobble when someone walk by because of flimsy camera tripods and that makes whole game world wobble too. I live next to rail road and every time train goes by whole house shakes. Oh dear.. never thought of that. :S
ashecitism
Member
Budget Cuts dev interview: http://www.gizmag.com/budget-cuts-h...ail&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-51c250f7f6-90467429
The Elite
BOSS
Yeah, Touch controls second half and it seems like you will be able to do some form of Room Scale with them as well. They are scheduled for H2 2016.
You're looking at a July ship time for the Rift unless you can find one in April. Apparently there will be a very small retail presence. I haven't heard anything more about that though.
Guardian Monkey
Member
Lol it's like inception.
Zalusithix
Member
Few months at the soonest. Unless there's news that I missed, it's still a nebulous second half of 2016. That's anywhere from a few months from now to Christmas.
That's actually fucking awesome. I love our dystopian VR future.
From my brief experience with the vive yesterday, room scale is more important to me than I previously thought, and it was already the thing that sold me on the vive. I wasn't walking around with my arms fully outstretched the whole time so even the small demo space didn't feel that tight. To me, room scale isn't something you wish you had room for, it's something you make room for.
I think if the fidelity of these headsets was equivalent to a desktop monitor, seated and 360 standing VR, especially non-motion-controller based games, would be much more compelling. As it currently stands however, stuff like chronos I'd rather just play it in "2d" on my 1440p 144hz monitor. It would be much more honest if trailers for VR games were shown in a resolution that is more representative of what you will actually experience. A while ago someone said it's equivalent to watching trailers on youtube at 480p, which is pretty accurate.
I'm currently thinking of ways to maximize my play space without annoying my lady friend too much. Really regretting that couch with a built in chaise now..
Rift has now earliest delivery in July. Touch release date is very cloudy, but most probably after that. Rift + Touch probably won't be too much less expensive than Vive. Vive is delivered now in May and with full support for the room scale and motion controls out of the box.
This is one of the things we found. It is only because we tried it that we are certain we will make room for it by shuffling the lounge a bit. I think for most people they will either try it and find this out, or they will pick a Vive / Rift or whatever and try it out of novelty and feel enough of an impact that they are more comfortable to make space if they can