PuppetMaster
Member
Rift doesnt do 360deg tracking. It will lose tour position if you turn your back from the sensors too long.
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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
Rift doesnt do 360deg tracking. It will lose tour position if you turn your back from the sensors too long.
plagiarize
Banned
Unless Valve change their stance on letting the Rift work with Steam VR it doesn't matter. If room scale is popular and Oculus don't want to sell those kinds of games in their store that's their (revenue) loss.
plagiarize
Banned
No there isnt. Here are games that work in room scale with touch: Hover junkers, fantastic contraption and job simulator. I'm sure I could find more for you.
No it doesnt. The Rift itself has tracking points on the back of it, so even one camera can track the headset 360 degrees.
It does 360 tracking just fine. There are IR sensors on the back of the headstrap
The Rift does do 360 degree tracking. There are LEDs on the back of the HMD in the CV1.
TheMadMan007
Member
Nope, I just sent a reply stating that I did not want to cancel and was just wondering what wave of shipments I was in. Hopefully my order is still valid.
I'm guessing they are referring to something like how a Rift owner could use the two Rift cameras, put them in a room scale config, and buy Vive games from Steam that will work on the RIft. Don't know if this is possible.
Didn't mean that is what we would be getting gen 1. But isn't that "the goal" ?
Foveated Rendering would make Vive and CV1 much more attractive to consumers as it would allow even a Gear VR ( or low end pc) to get 90fps with near identical to their regular monitor graphics settings.
Again, if the 5x stated by Microsoft is correct, you are talking about 0 performance trade off between traditional monitors/tvs and the dual VR screens aren't you?
Hell, 5x would make a game perform better in VR no?
There's no way that 5x number applies to rift and vive. There is a non trivial amount of overhead with foveated rendering. The benefits are much better as you increase the screen resolution and I think with first gen screens it's more like 20-30% faster than full res rendering.
still there is some hardware difference, smaller FOV and obvious camera resolution which limits the MAX play space possible with touch and the camera setup to 13 x 15 feet. more camera's means more usb3.0 plugs, and more processing power needed to compute the feed. lighthouse goes up beyond its oficially supported 15 x 15 feet, (incase you ahve a hangar
)DOT DASH DOT
Member
When I first phoned HTC to ask about what wave I'm in, he said he'd arrange a call back from the Vive team, I get a call back 2 days later and she said "so you want me to cancel your order?" Huh...........
artsi
Member
But it does if you adjust the camera setup to opposing corners, like the Fantastic Contraption devs (and others) have said, that's where the whole discussion started
And the HMD itself does 360 tracking fine. Controller occlusion is the problem with the standard setup.
Yeah, exactly what I mean. Oculus might not encourage room scale development right now, so there won't be "Oculus exclusive room scale", that's for sure.
But existing Vive / SteamVR games should work if the API offers cross-controller compatibility, right?
plagiarize
Banned
I don't doubt that Vive is the better room scale setup. I also see no reason to question developers making room scale games who say that Touch works just fine in room scale scenarios with opposing sensors.still there is some hardware difference, smaller FOV and obvious camera resolution which limits the MAX play space possible with touch and the camera setup to 13 x 15 feet. more camera's means more usb3.0 plugs, and more processing power needed to compute the feed. lighthouse goes up beyond its oficially supported 15 x 15 feet, (incase you ahve a hangar
tearsintherain
Member
Anyone stopped by local gamestops to see how enthusiastic sales have been? All gamestop's took preorders for PSVR this tuesday the 22nd. When I went into one today to trade in Division, they had a few pages on the door saying "only 6 PSVRs available for preorder, get yours now!" from tuesday. Asked the clerk how sales have been and he said they still have 3 preorders available if I want one!
That seems nuts, it sells out pretty fast online (at least on amazon, still available at best buy and gamestop) but hardly moves in store? Checked another store on the way home and they had 2 available still, six total preorders allocated.
Neither seems very good sign, although I'd guess its more a thing where people who REALLY want it preordered online for home delivery, and there weren't any games coming out this week that would warrant a drive out to stores.
I have an Oculus rift coming (hopefully in the next 2 weeks!) and made an order for PSVR on amazon, will switch to core version next week I hope.
That seems nuts, it sells out pretty fast online (at least on amazon, still available at best buy and gamestop) but hardly moves in store? Checked another store on the way home and they had 2 available still, six total preorders allocated.
Neither seems very good sign, although I'd guess its more a thing where people who REALLY want it preordered online for home delivery, and there weren't any games coming out this week that would warrant a drive out to stores.
I have an Oculus rift coming (hopefully in the next 2 weeks!) and made an order for PSVR on amazon, will switch to core version next week I hope.
No reasonable doubt that there could be potential occlusion problems, which seem pretty obvious for any outside-in solution? Hmmm
plagiarize
Banned
No. It's not reasonable to doubt the developers who have tried opposing cameras and say it works fine when there are no developers that have tried it who say it doesn't. What possible reason is there for someone making one of the Vive's pack in games to lie or exaggerate about what touch can do?
GuitarAtomik
Member
Awesome to hear.
The Budget Cuts devs have kicked around the idea of supporting both 180 degree and room scale set ups as different modes with Touch. I imagine not all room scale games will be able to pair down to a 180 degree experience though so either they'll just ask you to move your cameras, or not bother porting.
We all knew it wouldn't be as good as Vive and we already know why (smaller play area and more occlusion). I imagine if it was so much a compromised experience, they wouldn't bother with room scale on Rift at all.
Well, except for devs saying that it can work (just not as well as Vive's). Even if it isn't "officially" supported, if it works well enough it works and devs that can take advantage of it will. Especially when we're talking about the PC enthusiast space where people are willing to jump through all kinds of hoops for different experiences.
With the same object, vive and rift will occlude in the exact same positions. All that matters is line of sight.
All this discussion of what Rift could theoretically do in some ideal case some months from now is kind of pointless now. Until we get exact details about when Touch launches and what is officially supporting, honestly, this feels like trying to get some air out of Vive's launch, although that wouldn't make sense either.
Currently both HMDs are launching with a set of features and a set of games and we can enjoy that in the next weeks.
Currently both HMDs are launching with a set of features and a set of games and we can enjoy that in the next weeks.
The Job Simulator dev quite plainly said they will see when Touch is released what Oculus says and how people are setting them up. Nothing has changed since Palmer said the rift is capable of an opposed set up, but they aren't targeting that experience a year ago.
I have no idea how well it works, the dev said it works almost as well as the Vive. I don't know what that means. The issue is we have no idea what the support or functionality will be until we get to see it. Could be amazing or could have limitations, would be nice to see it in action to find out. I don't want to invest in something hoping it will do what I want while I try to parse people's words for meaning.
Its Nintendo Vs Sega all over again.
Watch Nvidia is going to come in and be the Sony
Haha. Platform wars are fun. Especially when you are neutral and can stir shit up on both sides of the fence
Until those facts are out, my stance on it is for people to look at other factors and weigh what's important to them for making purchase decisions. Or not buy anything at all and just wait. Not compare a known quantity with one that isn't clearly established yet and often downplayed.
plagiarize
Banned
There is nothing theoretical about it.
But I'm not telling people to get Rift and wait for touch if they want room scale. They shouldn't. We have no firm release date or price for touch, and Vive will do it all day one. Plus the advantages the Rift headset has over the Vive are small and aren't going to leave you wanting. The broad specs are almost identical headset wise. So why wait?
flyinpiranha
Member
Is that the same developer that has their logo on the Vive website? Owlchemy Labs?
We just have to wait but if you actually listen to "most" devs roomscale is fine with the Rift and Touch but not much can be said, it's early, not released and under NDA.
And just as good almost 6-9 months out from a retail product means it will only improve. We just don't know.
It's painfully obvious that Oculus has partners that have software not related to touch and pushing that functionality when you can't even buy it? That makes zero sense.
Don't forget that it is in their interest to consider things like 180 degree design adjustments for Vive users too. Despite the capabilities of the device, some number of buyers using the Vive are going to set up their device as standing-room only and bought the headset specifically because it had motion controllers out of the box even though they don't have a significant amount of walking play space.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Oh please, there have been far more "Rift blows cause no room scale" posts than anybody trying to take Vive down a peg. Everybody knows Vive is the cat's meow, there's no disputing that. When a dev of one of the Vive's launch games is saying good things about Rift's capability for room scale with their game you pay attention, timeliness of release doesn't mean this becomes irrelevant for discussion. Even the Budget Cuts dev did a 180 (heh) on their initial assessment of only providing a 180 degrees, pared down version only of the game on Rift+Touch and is looking into the normal room scale experience for it. Everybody wins in the pc vr space if both can do room scale well.
Yay, 1 unit up in the queue for me.
Yes, and trying to compensate that by pushing the other way is no better. That's what I'm saying.
Edit: and this thread has been very civilized, a lot of the recommendations here were done based on the specific cases and there wasn't too much of "Vive is the absolute best" and I don't remember any "Oculus sucks".
Actually, without official support it's still entirely theoretical.
Depending on room scale for Rift is like depending on a Oculus API wrapper with Vive. Except that the latter will happen more rapidly than the former.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Who here is doing that? Are we just supposed to ignore things devs say and not report on them?
Yeah seriously. This thread has evolved into basically this statement being said 500 different ways.
plagiarize
Banned
A developer making a game that is literally packed in with the Vive you have pre-order has not only said it works in room scale with Touch, but has announced on it's official website that the Touch version will support room scale.
What bit of that is theoretical? Why would a developer who is working closely with Valve and HTC lie about what their competitor's controller is capable of?
If opposing cameras work with Oculus's SDK (and they do, evidently) what is that but official support for room scale? Sure they aren't pushing it right now, and think standing will be the bigger market segment, but they've confirmed more than once that Touch supports room scale. Developers have confirmed more than once that Touch supports room scale.
Yes, Oculus are currently lacking something like chaperone. That may or may not change...
But there is nothing theoretical about saying it supports room scale. We've had numerous independent confirmations that it does. I can't fathom why a developer working on a game bundled with the Vive would lie about it.
People asked the same question when devs downplayed the power difference between xbox one and ps4 before launch. They are not lying. Nobody's saying touch will or won't do room scale here. We all know it "can". We just don't know "how well". So people shouldn't jump to conclusions on it's performance and make purchase decisions based on that. My comments are in response to those wondering if they should cancel vive preorders because they think oculus touch will do what the vive does just as well. I'm taking an extreme stance, not from the position of an expert, but from the position of an agnostic consumer. If I don't have hard facts on performance, it doesn't factor into my purchase decision. Simple
I think it might not have hit the mainstream hard enough, but the way lighthouse tracking works is actually innovative.
Lots of people and companies were bashing their heads against the VR spatial tracking issue, but Valve were simply the first to come up with a reliable solution which works in a wide variety of conditions, and is simple and cheap enough to actually be shippable. It's a huge achievement.
artsi
Member
So if SteamVR supports chaperone on Rift + cross-controller compatibility and you can setup cameras in an alternative way that there's no 360-degree occlusion problems, what will stop Rift owners from playing all the same room scale games that Vive offers?
Official support would mean, to me at least, making it an official first-class citizen both in terms of hardware and in terms of software support (e.g. set-up instructions). When and if that happens we can talk again.
Without additional work? Controller APIs for one.
plagiarize
Banned
It can do room scale. No one is saying it's better at it. I've personally said that I'd still advise people who want room scale to get a Vive right now. I've been pretty consistent on that since this room broke.
No need for "quotes".
The Xbox One still plays the same games as the PS4. Where the experience falls short, it really doesn't fall so far short that if you prefer the exclusives on the Xbox One and can only afford one consle, that you shouldn't buy it.
I personally think people exaggerate the difference between PS4 and Xbox One, but that's coming from the perspective of someone with a high end PC.
This has been the most civilized and informed thread on the topic. Many of us having this discussion actually plan to own both. Nobody is saying rift sucks, so I don't know who you are referring to. I'm not spending $684 on something if I thought it sucks. Lol
No, that's not what I said. The article was actually interesting.
I was talking about the discussion after the article. And I'm referring strictly at the fact that the Touch features and support at launch are not officially known yet so stating them as a fact is a bit too much. And it has only generated pointless discussions even before this. Is practically just fuel for hardware war. Now, if you want that, it's also fine. It will end up in what some user complained in the Oculus thread, that some comments that point out the inferiority of the hardware ruin the launch hype for him. Very understandable.
My opinion was just that everybody is now in the launch hype and we better all enjoy that.
jadedm17
Member
That's too small to even call a sample pool; Consoles sold out in major cities day one can be found in great numbers in small towns. Where do you live? If it's not NYC, Boston, or similar than it likely doesn't matter. Did you see the Amiibo shortages? People in Australia and other places had videos of shelves full of rarer Amiibos that were hitting 10x markup on eBay.
That said : I assume PSVR will be similar to PS4 in that it'll be hard to walk into most places or just order one online for a few months, but anyone paying attention will have several chances to jump in with relative ease.
I quoted "how well" too! It wasn't sarcasm. I often use quotes for stating opinions that aren't just mine. The original reason for using quotes
plagiarize
Banned
Come on man. Is it theoretically possible to play Dark Souls at higher resolutions on PC or is it actually possible using DSFix?
Is it theoretically possible to play Alien Isolation in VR or is it actually possible?
Sure some people are going to miss out on something that isn't front and center in the options or explained in the set up instructions, but I don't think that applies to those of us here, and I don't think it prevents room scale from being something you can do with a Rift and the Touch. It's been confirmed.
The dev implied the experience was good, but not quite as good as it is with the Vive. Which makes sense because that's been Valve's focus when it comes to VR... but the technology the Rift and Touch use to track things is something we all know is physically capable of supporting opposing sensors in an environment about the size of a room to provide a good experience with little occlusion.
And we've just had further confirmation that the SDK supports this from a source I see no reason to question.
artsi
Member
But what if Valve is able to support Touch via SteamVR that the controllers will have mostly unified functionality, buttons match but maybe the trackpad might do something that analog sticks can't?
Considering they plan to support chaperone I would think it's in their interest to make the controllers work with SteamVR too.
Man, I need to make more money lol. I have all 3 pre ordered, but only plan on keeping one, maybe psvr if I can get money together again by Oct. I'm holding off on cancelling one until they're in the wild. I'm really leaning towards Vive based mostly on how fun some of the room scale games look, but my biggest concern is the SDE. If people say there's a huge difference in terms of SDE then I may keep the Rift and wait till CV2 for room scale.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Ok, I was just going off what the dev said, and I do think their claims likely have merit as plagiarize has said, what would they stand to gain to report such inaccuracies? These aren't youtube streamers, these are folks that have been working with roomscale tech for awhile, so I think their claims should be taken with more weight, that's all.
I don't like the platform war thing either, but trying to stifle discussion cause someone might catch feels that their hmd of choice may not be as special as they think it is is frankly kind of thin skinned, and I don't feel that's a compelling enough reason to ceasing conversation surrounding the other platform just cause "don't mess with my launch party buzz". For the record I have both on pre-order, and am just getting weary of all the Oculus dogpiling that is all the rage since Vive became a thing. We can all enjoy the hype train equally.
Furthermore, I think it's natural for participants in a thread about "high-end VR" to gravitate towards the solution which is most "high-end" out of the gate.
And clearly, when you take into account both input tracking and the HMD, that's the Vive right now.
Well, I can't easily imagine sticks replicating the entire functionality of a touch pad transparently, so there needs to be some effort there. You were asking for something potentially stopping Rift owners from playing games designed for Vive, and that's one thing which came to my mind immediately.
I personally think so too. Devs downplayed it. Consumers and forums exaggerated it. The same is probably what will happen with VR headsets as well. Especially when people choose to own one or the other, bias is a natural byproduct.
Can we say it technically works, but that doesn't mean it will practically work. Like I said earlier that relies on oculus' official stance, and how easily people can set up cameras to handle multiple use cases - especially important if oculus sticks with a front facing focus
plagiarize
Banned
Unless they tell developers not to, it won't be too difficult to support two different sets of controllers if the user base of both is sizeable.
artsi
Member
Yeah I know, that's what I'm thinking too, what are the possible roadblocks with that kind of a solution.
If Valve was able to offer Vive + Rift compatibility with both motion controls and HMD's, or at least easy controller-specific configuration for developers, I think everyone would win (except Oculus Store as people would buy all their room scale games from Steam).