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[Qassim]

Opting in vs. Opting Out

Also, lol:

 

[viveks86]

Woah dude. You Kickstarted the Vive in 86? I didn't even know KS has been around that long let alone Vive development.

Spoiler

I was a fanboy even before I said my first words. Thanks, mom and dad!

 

[KingSnake]

After this GB stream I really feel a bit down on the prospect of VR in general, in terms of success. Touch can't come soon enough to repair this.

 

[Onemic]

After this GB stream I really feel a bit down on the prospect of VR in general, in terms of success. Touch can't come soon enough to repair this.

Same here. They really make VR/Oculus minus Touch look like a gimmick in the stream.

 

[Alexlf]

Opting in vs. Opting Out

Also, lol:

The whole "Opting in" thing really boils down to most people not caring, not an actual road block. The average person doesn't have the IQ of a slug.

 

[Lunar FC]

After this GB stream I really feel a bit down on the prospect of VR in general, in terms of success. Touch can't come soon enough to repair this.

That's the reason I went with a Vive.

 

[viveks86]

Why are there no benchmarks?! Grrrr

 

[KingSnake]

That's the reason I went with a Vive.

Yeah, but a lot of people are going for the Rift because of the better brand recognition and the VR history they have. Most probably Rift will be market leader. So, if Rift doesn't create a good word of mouth that will hurt all the market (less consumers, less developers considering investing in it etc.)

 

[PBY]

After this GB stream I really feel a bit down on the prospect of VR in general, in terms of success. Touch can't come soon enough to repair this.

Yup. Considering cancelling my PSVR preorder, but waiting (read: hoping) to see if the PS offerings are more "full" games, as opposed to minigames.

I'm just unsure how much "more" the VR experience will add to my personal enjoyment.

 

[dhonk]

It's Day One, so people can finally start discussing what Oculus does instead of what they say

This is absolutely the time to start fussing over anti-consumer measures. Because we're no longer arguing about hypotheticals and unfinished products. We're arguing about what's actually happening and not "wait and see"

This hypothetical change you speak of only comes from fussing. The status quo has been established. And it's anti-consumer

Preach

 

[shiftplusone]

Yup. Considering cancelling my PSVR preorder, but waiting (read: hoping) to see if the PS offerings are more "full" games, as opposed to minigames.

I'm just unsure how much "more" the VR experience will add to my personal enjoyment.

RiGS seems like a real actual game, so to me they're already starting off on a stronger foot.

Not to get all list wars-y but they're doing a better job to me as is, after watching the GB stuff

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Yup. Considering cancelling my PSVR preorder, but waiting (read: hoping) to see if the PS offerings are more "full" games, as opposed to minigames.

I'm just unsure how much "more" the VR experience will add to my personal enjoyment.

Not to be condescending of the opinions of the GB crew, but they were never really into VR.

VR adds immersion. Thats the thing. There wont be new genres available on a VR headset, but it will enhance current genres to a certain extent. The problem I have with the GB stream is, that VR is really an isolated "gaming" experience, but they actually play it without a headset (like in Dreadhalls, where the sound is quite important (imagine playing Alien Isolation without sound)).

 

[libertytoast]

Why are there no benchmarks?! Grrrr

Like these?

 

[viveks86]

Like these?

<3

 

[Lunar FC]

Not to be condescending of the opinions of the GB crew, but they were never really into VR.

VR adds immersion. Thats the thing. There wont be new genres available on a VR headset, but it will enhance current genres to a certain extent. The problem I have with the GB stream is, that VR is really an isolated "gaming" experience, but they actually play it without a headset (like in Dreadhalls, where the sound is quite important (imagine playing Alien Isolation without sound)).

Lmao. Jeff kickstarted the Rift, and Dan at times has talked about it like it was the second coming. They speak about it all the time on the Bombcast.

 

[Mihos]

Not to be condescending of the opinions of the GB crew, but they were never really into VR.

They are reviewing the games more than the tech, which honestly they should be. Most of the games they are showing are pretty objectively bad. Kind of like most console release games are bad.

 

[Samaritan]

Not to be condescending of the opinions of the GB crew, but they were never really into VR.

You're clearly out of touch with GB. They've been excitedly talking about VR for what feels like years now. A lot of these games are just underwhelming showpieces for VR, which has been their problem. They haven't had any qualms with the tech side of things; it's all been the games.

Oculus launching without Touch is really hurting its first impressions I think.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Lmao. Jeff kickstarted the Rift, and Dan at times has talked about it like it was the second coming. They speak about it all the time on the Bombcast.

I just mean from what I have seen the last weeks. I know Jeff kickstarted the Rift.
In the stream right now it just seems like they already experienced it now (since they have the review one for already one week) and while saying "this is cool. this is great", it seems they are not that into it.

They are reviewing the games more than the tech, which honestly they should be. Most of the games they are showing are pretty objectively bad. Kind of like most console release games are bad.

That might be it, but its kinda strange they play Subnautica for like 5 minutes, which I guess might actually be a great VR game, then play Dreadhalls for 20.

 

[viveks86]

Hmmm... seems like the benchmarks haven't really tried the demanding games, like ethan carter or pCARS.

And why are they running lucky's tale on medium preset on a 980 Ti?! I don't even

 

[Qassim]

They are reviewing the games more than the tech, which honestly they should be. Most of the games they are showing are pretty objectively bad. Kind of like most console release games are bad.

Yeah, it's pretty standard new-platform release stuff. It's partly why my enthusiasm for the Rift isn't particularly high compared to the Vive, because at least with the Vive the cool tracked controllers should carry games a lot further than they otherwise would without the controllers.

 

[KingSnake]

I just mean from what I have seen the last weeks. I know Jeff kickstarted the Rift.
In the stream right now it just seems like they already experienced it now (since they have the review one for already one week) and while saying "this is cool. this is great", it seems they are not that into it.



That might be it, but its kinda strange they play Subnautica for like 5 minutes, which I guess might actually be a great VR game, then play Dreadhalls for 20.

They are not into it because most of the things they showed/tried are not really great.

They stopped Subnautica because it glitched on them.

 

[Zalusithix]

Yup. Considering cancelling my PSVR preorder, but waiting (read: hoping) to see if the PS offerings are more "full" games, as opposed to minigames.

I'm just unsure how much "more" the VR experience will add to my personal enjoyment.

If you're going to be looking for mainly traditional controller use cases, it's debatable whether PSVR will add $400+ worth of enjoyment. Really depends how much you like cockpit games, as that's where non-tracked seated VR excels.

If you're looking forward to the move controllers, the outlook is more favorable assuming any decent number of games and good implementation. In the very least, they'll provide experiences you wouldn't be able to get at all otherwise instead of simply augmenting a more traditional experience.

 

[Lunar FC]

I just mean from what I have seen the last weeks. I know Jeff kickstarted the Rift.
In the stream right now it just seems like they already experienced it now (since they have the review one for already one week) and while saying "this is cool. this is great", it seems they are not that into it.

Maybe it's the fact that alot of of it just doesn't look good?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

They are not into it because most of the things they showed/tried are not really great.

They stopped Subnautica because it glitched on them.

Could have just restarted it.
I can see how sth. like Dreadhalls might be boring (especially without headphones) or Eve Valkyrie if you play with bots.
I am not saying these games are the best ever though. Not that many games interest me beside Luckys Tale, Adr1ft and Chronos.

Did they play Pinball already?

 

[Mihos]

Yeah, it's pretty standard new-platform release stuff. It's partly why my enthusiasm for the Rift isn't particularly high compared to the Vive, because at least with the Vive the cool tracked controllers should carry games a lot further than they otherwise would without the controllers.

Like everything else on PC, Most of the really kick ass stuff, isn't on official stores. I would love to see more vorpx type stuff.

 

[Arulan]

It's exciting to see consumer (high-end) VR finally available, but I can't help but reaffirm my belief that launching without independent 3D-tracked controllers was a mistake.

 

[viveks86]

Seems like every review is knocking the headset for lack of motion controls. Should be interesting to see vive reviews next week.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I don't follow them and haven't watched the stream but did any of the GB crew previously own a CV1 or 2? If so then that might be your answer. They have probably gotten the itch to get up and walk around with proper motion controls that most people whom I have read about that had the DKs have. The CV1 might feel like a let down because it's not that different from the previous iterations.

Plus the fact that VR is in it's infancy and game design and mechanics are going to be hit and miss for a bit. Let alone that past games that weren't built from the ground up for VR generally make for terrible VR games/experiences.

I really, really wish that Oculus had launched with touch and roomscale so that the general publics first impression of VR wasn't so gimped and can't help but forever remember this as a cheap move to launch first.

 

[Cartman86]

Not to be condescending of the opinions of the GB crew, but they were never really into VR.

VR adds immersion. Thats the thing. There wont be new genres available on a VR headset, but it will enhance current genres to a certain extent. The problem I have with the GB stream is, that VR is really an isolated "gaming" experience, but they actually play it without a headset (like in Dreadhalls, where the sound is quite important (imagine playing Alien Isolation without sound)).

I very strongly disagree with this.

 

[Zalusithix]

Seems like every review is knocking the headset for lack of motion controls. Should be interesting to see vive reviews next week.

It really will be. It's somewhat unfair though because games developed for the Vive have had much less time in the oven.

 

[Bsigg12]

It really will be. It's somewhat unfair though because games developed for the Vive have had much less time in the oven.

How is it unfair? HTC is getting the Vive out next week so you would expect there to be content to support it. They could have always released later for "more time in the oven".

 

[Guardian Monkey]

How is it unfair? HTC is getting the Vive out next week so you would expect there to be content to support it. They could have always released later for "more time in the oven".

If the hardware is done. They might as well get it out now. the more hands it is in the more stuff will come out. Also it seems that relatively fun small games can come out in room scale with out much work. Should help hold people over as some of the bugger stuff is created. The life of an early adopter. I would hope that anyone that is shelling out for a VIVE would realize this already.

 

[viveks86]

Some hardware criticism from PC world. Wasn't expecting issues with headtracking:

Which brings us into the negative portion of this hardware assessment. Let&#8217;s start with the camera. Oculus&#8217;s external position-tracking camera works by measuring infrared LEDs on the headset, some of which are now built into the rear of the Rift. However, I found the positional tracking to be slightly less accurate when your head&#8217;s turned away from the Rift than when you&#8217;re facing the camera straight-on, and there&#8217;s still occasionally a jarring leap when you spin 180 degrees.

Furthermore, the Rift&#8217;s camera doesn&#8217;t actually track that large a space. It&#8217;s generally big enough for Oculus&#8217;s original goals&#8212;seated VR. But it&#8217;s clear that standing VR and room-scale VR in HTC Vive-esque fashion was (or maybe still is) an afterthought for Oculus. The amount of space tracked by the Rift camera is small, and makes standing-centric games like Farlands a bit of a chore as you try to stay inside the Rift&#8217;s bounds.

It doesn&#8217;t help that Oculus never really explains where the Rift&#8217;s camera should be placed. The DK2 Rift camera mounted on top of a monitor; it was clear where Oculus expected it to go. The consumer Rift ships with the camera mounted on a pole, like a miniature desk lamp. I have no idea where to put it. On the edge of my desk so it tracks more of the floor? On the rear of my desk so I don&#8217;t casually knock it over? And what angle should it be mounted at?

After a bit of fiddling I think I finally have it in an optimal position for my space, but it&#8217;s not as set-up-and-go friendly as the design first indicates when you pull it out of the box.

Other issues persist too. As with all VR headsets, residual heat builds up in the display, and though the Rift never became uncomfortably hot I definitely appreciated the cool, cool breeze against my face when I&#8217;d take it off. The tether on the Rift is another sore spot. It&#8217;s lightweight, but it&#8217;s also short&#8212;much shorter than the Vive&#8217;s&#8212;and tends to get hooked under stuff with obnoxious regularity.

How is it unfair? HTC is getting the Vive out next week so you would expect there to be content to support it. They could have always released later for "more time in the oven".

I agree. That would be valid criticism too.

 

[Monger]

Not to be condescending of the opinions of the GB crew, but they were never really into VR.

VR adds immersion. Thats the thing. There wont be new genres available on a VR headset, but it will enhance current genres to a certain extent. The problem I have with the GB stream is, that VR is really an isolated "gaming" experience, but they actually play it without a headset (like in Dreadhalls, where the sound is quite important (imagine playing Alien Isolation without sound)).

VR should be more than that. If that's what we relegate VR to it's success will be fleeting at best as can be seen by these initial impressions.

Vive is already showing how VR can be social and can take people with no gaming interest whatsoever on an adventure together. The new possibilities is what excites a lot of people about VR. We get to reset what gaming can be in this new space.

 

[marc^o^]

I just placed my Vive preorder. Shipping in May.
I hope it will be in April though, the wait will be horrible once reviews and impressions start appearing next week.

And so need to buy a PC. Should I get it now or do prices tend to go down in a matter of weeks?

 

[viveks86]

If the hardware is done. They might as well get it out now. the more hands it is in the more stuff will come out. Also it seems that relatively fun small games can come out in room scale with out much work. Should help hold people over as some of the bugger stuff is created. The life of an early adopter. I would hope that anyone that is shelling out for a VIVE would realize this already.

But a review shouldn't make such assumptions. They should call it for what it is so nobody is misled.

 

[Zalusithix]

How is it unfair? HTC is getting the Vive out next week so you would expect there to be content to support it. They could have always released later for "more time in the oven".

Err, I'm comparing games to games. In the case of Oculus, devs have had far more time to perfect controller based Rift games, and have had financial assistance. There's simultaneously less time and no financial assistance from HTC (that I'm aware of aside from a free Vive) for the devs making games for the Vive. Sure HTC could delay it, but the hardware is ready, and that's pretty much as far as HTC is involved. They're not going for a curated garden approach like Oculus.

Of course, any dev claiming their product is done should be judged as such.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Second room-scale test with the Rift

Even better. Obviously the lack of chaperone/camera is a problem.

But that said, he is still not putting the camera in the optimized angle. At that height he should incline the camera down 15-20º more, that way he would gain even more space close to the camera position. The camera fov is a 3d cone, in the video he is "wasting" 40% of the cone, the superior part above his head.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Second room-scale test with the Rift


Even better. Obviously the lack of chaperone/camera is a problem.

But that said, he is still not putting the camera in the optimized angle. At that height he should incline the camera down 15-20º more, that way he would gain even more space close to the camera position. The camera fov is a 3d cone, in the video he is "wasting" 40% of the cone, the superior part above his head.

Not bad for a crude attempt.

The short length of the cable is going to be the biggest bottleneck here. While he was able to walk to the limits, you could tell he was worried about turning too much and yanking on PC cord. The camera being tethered to the PC is also possibly an issue. The cord doesn't look long enough to put the second camera at the opposite end, which you would need to do to prevent occlusion for the Touch controllers.

 

[artsi]

Second room-scale test with the Rift


Even better. Obviously the lack of chaperone/camera is a problem.

But that said, he is still not putting the camera in the optimized angle. At that height he should incline the camera down 15-20º more, that way he would gain even more space close to the camera position. The camera fov is a 3d cone, in the video he is "wasting" 40% of the cone, the superior part above his head.

Seems to work well. Add another camera to the opposite corner (for motion controls) and I think Rift owners won't have any problems with room scale, as long as Touch controllers are supported by the game and they have some kind of chaperone system in place (at least SteamVR will offer that).

Extension cords are obviously needed for cameras at least, which is a caveat.

Placing the camera about 7 feet off the ground and pointed downward,I tested the camera in a room that was measured 13 ft x 14 feet total. Booting up Air Mech I set to walking about the room, stress testing the tracking by crawling on the ground moving quickly and exploring he whole space.

To my surprise the single camera was able to track my movement rather flawlessly throughout the entire space from this position. Outside of a pocked below the camera and the areas limited by the Rift&#8217;s cord, the entire room was accessible.

 

[plagiarize]

Best through the lens shot I could manage. You can roughly see the SDE.

 

[mckmas8808]

Thought this was interesting. The CEO of the developers of Lucky's Tales thinks we'll be seeing 12 month cycles for VR. Interview here (@ ~8:00 mark): https://youtu.be/D_LOIjASKoo?t=7m57s

How is this possible?! That means they are designing and actually making the next one right now! They'd have to demoing it to people as we speak. And they'll have to probably show it off by the end of the year if they want to sell it next spring.

 

[elyetis]

Second room-scale test with the Rift


Even better. Obviously the lack of chaperone/camera is a problem.

But that said, he is still not putting the camera in the optimized angle. At that height he should incline the camera down 15-20º more, that way he would gain even more space close to the camera position. The camera fov is a 3d cone, in the video he is "wasting" 40% of the cone, the superior part above his head.

Pretty reassuring results, as you say maybe the camera angle could be better thought I'd say that having tracking over your head could be usefull when Touch get released, since you will most likely raise your controller over your head in some games... at least I know some of the things I want to try to make with UE4 will need that.

Software chaperone shouldn't be a problem even if having a camera too would have been better.

Biggest problem I see from that video is mostly the cable length.

Best through the lens shot I could manage. You can roughly see the SDE.

You have ( or had ) a DK2 right ? how much better is the SDE when wearing it ? I know most people tend to play down the SDE, I mean some people already said the SDE close to non-existent in the DK2, which IMHO isn't true at all.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

But a review shouldn't make such assumptions. They should call it for what it is so nobody is misled.

I was just answering the post to the member. I agree with you the review should point out all of this to the public.

 

[Durante]

How long is the Rift cable?

 

[plagiarize]

Pretty reassuring results, as you say maybe the camera angle could be better thought I'd say that having tracking over your head could be usefull when Touch get released, since you will most likely raise your controller over your head in some games... at least I know some of the things I want to try to make with UE4 will need that.

Software chaperone shouldn't be a problem even if having a camera too would have been better.

Biggest problem I see from that video is mostly the cable length.

You have ( or had ) a DK2 right ? how much better is the SDE when wearing it ? I know most people tend to play down the SDE, I mean some people already said the SDE close to non-existent in the DK2, which IMHO isn't true at all.

It's much better than the DK2, and a little better than the Gear VR. Certainly not a night and day improvement over the Gear VR.

Pinball FX2 is incredible BTW. Need to give my cat his medicine now though. The positional audio really stands out in Pinball FX2. Makes such a huge difference to playing it normally.

How long is the Rift cable?

A little over a 11 feet I'd say. Just measured it.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

How is this possible?! That means they are designing and actually making the next one right now! They'd have to demoing it to people as we speak. And they'll have to probably show it off by the end of the year if they want to sell it next spring.

Well I would think They already have somethings to be working on. Screen, tracking (head and eye), chaperon system, and whatever interesting things they find over the next few months of consumer use to work on.

 

[Monger]

How long is the Rift cable?

Headset cable is 4m. Sensor is 2.5m

Edit: Or not if plagiarized measured it. That's what the roadtovr review listed it at.

 

[the-pi-guy]

How is this possible?! That means they are designing and actually making the next one right now! They'd have to demoing it to people as we speak. And they'll have to probably show it off by the end of the year if they want to sell it next spring.

Really though, it's mostly him talking how quickly it is advancing. Absolutely does not mean a new one is coming any time soon.

The crux of the issue this causes is that the majority of casual folks do not flip the switch, or will assume content being blocked is not reliable without further investigation. However, I imagine that is a comparison from platforms that were never truly open to begin with, and PC stalwarts will see such issues and know to switch such a limit off when they need to.

From the guy that posted it though:

At this point though it's a non-issue. What casual folk has a ~$1000 PC, a 600$ headset, and the desire to jump on a 600$ purchase day 1?

Not likely very many.

 

[elyetis]

It's much better than the DK2, and a little better than the Gear VR. Certainly not a night and day improvement over the Gear VR.

Thanks. I didn't get to try Gear VR, but 'much better than the DK2' is still good news ( and seems to prove again that some early report were a little optimistic ).