Yes I definitely de-tuned myself to a 12-14yr level to enjoy these. Otherwise the simplicity of the thought processes and predictability would have made them pretty difficult to read. Once you turn that off though they make for a fun few hours of entertainment.
The Hunger Games (Dir. Gary Ross) |OT| May The Odds Be Ever In Your Favor
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Yes I definitely de-tuned myself to a 12-14yr level to enjoy these. Otherwise the simplicity of the thought processes and predictability would have made them pretty difficult to read. Once you turn that off though they make for a fun few hours of entertainment.
Being a "young adult" novel shouldn't excuse stuff like terrible sentence structure and the lack of a strongly worded narrative. A book can be "simple" and still well written. The young adult label has become a crutch for poor writers.
the movie looks good (I have faith in Gary Ross) but when the hell did the Matrix become the high-water mark for American Sci-Fi... or even sci-fi in general? I love the movie and think it's pretty much still the best big-budget-ish/blockbuster/action-y type movie of the past decade but that was more because it was so slick (and remains so), inventive, and, ultimately, really satisfying. I certainly didn't find the story particularly emotionally engaging and the whole science-fiction/philosophy aspect was pretty shallow in the first film too (and when they ratcheted both up a notch in Revolutions and Reloaded, the films took a nosedive in quality).
I'd vastly prefer Eternal Sunshine, or, to a lesser extent, AI/Minority Report, or even, Wall-E, as the standard bearers of American Sci-Fi, though I suppose that's more indicative of the abysmal quality of American sci-fi vs british (Children of Men, Sunshine, Moon) more than anything.
I dunno. I'm just wary of Matrix comparisons, and even more wary of the over-hyped hyperbole that usually accompanies them.
I'd vastly prefer Eternal Sunshine, or, to a lesser extent, AI/Minority Report, or even, Wall-E, as the standard bearers of American Sci-Fi, though I suppose that's more indicative of the abysmal quality of American sci-fi vs british (Children of Men, Sunshine, Moon) more than anything.
I dunno. I'm just wary of Matrix comparisons, and even more wary of the over-hyped hyperbole that usually accompanies them.
That makes no sense. You have no qualified opinion then.
In my opinion the movies are much more enjoyable than the clunky books. Tolkein was a master of English but his books had no flow. Such a chore to read and I love reading.
People are comparing this to The Matrix? Now that's a major 'wut'.
given most recent science fiction movie efforts, it's hard not to blame him for his stupid comparison.
a secret-boss
Banned
Gonna watch the movie after I finish book 1
yes i see where the gamemakers are coming from, but it doesn't really add to the integrity of the game to suddenly allow two tributes from the same district to win, especially when there are only two districts that can do so. it gives them a huge advantage. im not saying the games should be fair or anything of that sort, but she may as well have handed one side an axe and the other a pencil.
its hard to buy in a game of last man standing that you would NOT kill Katniss if you had her defenceless as he did. in any FPS multiplayer game, i find it unlikely you would just let someone go like that.
both i think are flaws in collins writing. the thing is she probably knows it, but because its for kids its ok to let it slide... im probably the wrong audience to be criticising i suppose... its like quidditch, the sport doesn't make any sense but because its for kids... apparently it doesn't matter.
its hard to buy in a game of last man standing that you would NOT kill Katniss if you had her defenceless as he did. in any FPS multiplayer game, i find it unlikely you would just let someone go like that.
both i think are flaws in collins writing. the thing is she probably knows it, but because its for kids its ok to let it slide... im probably the wrong audience to be criticising i suppose... its like quidditch, the sport doesn't make any sense but because its for kids... apparently it doesn't matter.
Expendable.
Member
James is one of the smartest people I know. I highly doubt that.
I don't see what's your point here. You mean Peeta should've killed Katniss - the girl he loved - when she was defenseless? And then he'd get out of there half-dead and manage to kill Thresh and Cato?
Collins explains very clearly why alliances are made inside the arena, and the reasoning is very understandable. Especially the Katniss and Peeta alliance.
Collins explains very clearly why alliances are made inside the arena, and the reasoning is very understandable. Especially the Katniss and Peeta alliance.
The book was a fun read, but obviously there is no real message or moral to get out of it. It's not an allegory to anything, it's simple (and to be honest, not incredibly well written) young adult fiction. Read it in a few hours, and I enjoyed it, and apparently the movie adaptation aint so bad, so I'll watch it.
Great piece, as usual, by The New Yorker on this.
Great piece, as usual, by The New Yorker on this.
The trilogy as a whole definitely teaches a message about the effects of violence on kids and teenagers.
I've only read the first book, so my opinion isn't fully formed, I suppose, but I don't think that's a message given from the first. Maybe throughout the trilogy.
That they will eventually assassinate government leaders and receive a full pardon for it?
Yeah, it's not apparent from just the first book.
No.
That if fucks up their head big freaking time, in a way that people will find reasonable that they assassinate government leaders after all they've been through.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
And as Mockingjay shows:
Getting knocked out or incarcerated a lot and finding out about important events after the fact is a constant in life.
Sorry. Sore spot about Mockingjay.
Laughing harder than after your first post.
Yeah, so we just got done fighting this whole rebellion to win back our freedom but in a fit of rage, Katniss gets to pop a cap in what's-her-face's head and "Oh, well she just had a really tough childhood, and that other lady was kind of a bitch. Let's let her go!"
The way you keep coming back to this thread even after declaring your hate for the series multiple times is funny.
I was obviously kidding when I said people found Katniss' actions reasonable because of that.
The message's still there, though.
ThisWreckage
Banned
This really does have a great chance of being the next Matrix trilogy. After all, the Hunger Games book series gets worse as it goes on.
The first part of your post is spot-on. I mean, the second parts of both series are their best moments.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Nope.
Although, I am in the small camp that really like Matrix Revolutions but hated Reloaded.
For what it's worth I'm still looking forward to seeing the movie at some point in time in the future. In the mean time there's no law stating I can't waste even more of my time than I already have hating this crap.
Revolutions had its moments, but the ending simply throws it all away. Reloaded expanded the original in a very interesting way, IMO, and ended in a really epic note.
You're welcome to do whatever you feel like. I'm just saying.
ThisWreckage
Banned
To each his own, though you are in a minute minority.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
You could sacrifice about 90% of Reloaded and lose nothing in the overall story of the trilogy. Most of the film is utterly pointless. If they had simply edited the shit out of Reloaded and Revolutions and made it one movie it would have been incredible.
The main problem is it seems like the stories were built around the setpieces.
no not the Peeta and Katniss alliance. that makes alot of sense obviously. when Thresh had Katniss defenceless after Thresh took care of Foxface and he let Katniss go. That was a cop out from Suzanne Collins. Yes she explained that Thresh wanted to make things even so he didn't owe her anything, but really in a game of last man standing there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't have killed her there and then. collins didn't have to write herself into that corner, she had a million other scenarios that could have happened. I don't see why just because she's writing for kids, she can cop out like that.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I think Revolutions is a pretty damn good movie if you clip off the first thirty minutes. Everything after they find Neo is pretty damn good.
In Reloaded there are no stakes and apparently no consequences to everything. They are literally just running through the motions (the Merovingian even points the stupidity of this out).
I don't see how that's a cop out. Just because it's a battle to the death doesn't mean that everyone in it is a complete jackass who isn't honorable. Thresh most likely cared for Rue, and wasn't sure what to do in regards to another tribute honoring Rue like that.
I don't see how that equals her 'writing for kids'. There are tons of fiction with battles to the death where characters decide to spare others for stupid reasons. At least Thresh's reason makes sense. Especially when you consider it in regards to Thresh's actions up to that point. He didn't try to get the Capitol to like him and he outright refused to join the careers. He was playing the game on his terms.
I don't see how that equals her 'writing for kids'. There are tons of fiction with battles to the death where characters decide to spare others for stupid reasons. At least Thresh's reason makes sense. Especially when you consider it in regards to Thresh's actions up to that point. He didn't try to get the Capitol to like him and he outright refused to join the careers. He was playing the game on his terms.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Hit the nail on the head there. Another thing I love about Revolutions is the lack of Agent Smith. He is my favorite character of the trilogy, but in Revolutions he is a hidden menace just waiting to be dealt with. It makes him seem more threatening when you just hear about what he is doing instead of seeing it (like in Reloaded).
I dunno. The ending is still lol worthy in execution. The Link character and his wife are totally useless, Morpheus still ends up doing nothing. Though the stuff I liked in Rev, I really liked, like the Machine city scenes and dat score
You should probably rewatch Revolutions.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
He was at his scariest when trying to kill Neo and Trinity on Niobe's ship.
All bloodied up, out for vengeance and scorching holes into Neo's face.
Oh I agree that the ending with the Oracle, Architect etc is fucking AWFUL. It should have ended on a character note with Morpheus, rather than the quick cut that we got of him and Niobe. Link etc is totally useless, agreed. I fucking hate that motherfucker in everything he's in bar Romeo + Juliet. Should have just given the guy that played Tank the extra money. Tank was charismatic and awesome.
I didn't think of that moment as a cop out.
What Thresh did symbolized the "spark" going out of control. The rules of the games and the Capitol's desires dictate he should've killed Katniss, but Rue's death was the beginning of the Districts not following the script set by the Capitol. Thresh was an example of the Districts breaking from the script.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
He was scariest when he cornered Seraph and the little girl in the room. And then you had one more scene of him until the finale, (the possessed dude just didn't do it for me personally.), and it was creepy because the threat was always lingering in the background. You knew it had to be dealt with eventually.
You just copped out her cop out! Cop cop!
I've started to notice a trend with your posts that remind me of Christina Aguilera.
Trying so hard but not accomplishing anything.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Can someone tell me how similar this is to Battle Royale? Both books and the movie? To me this really looks like a rip-off, despite what the autor says.
However, from the book description there is some ripple effect to the outside world? How is that shows? Also, I understand this movie has limited number of characters compared to BR?
However, from the book description there is some ripple effect to the outside world? How is that shows? Also, I understand this movie has limited number of characters compared to BR?
The first book makes a lot of pretty blatant, direct apes from Battle Royale, but since BR isn't told from a single PoV its cast of kids is much more fully developed. Also BR doesn't spend as much time talking about hair, clothing and body soaps, or have
werewolves
ThisWreckage
Banned
I'd say that's a damn accurate assessment.
Pretty similar premise, but the execution is very different from BR.
Battle Royale's main focus really is on the friendship between the students. Because they already know each other, all of the pent-up feelings they had for each other basically exploded thanks to the event. I think that's the strength of Royale. You can see how all of the resentments each student has for each other finally materializes full-on in paranoia and hatred. Attachment also means you're more hesitant to kill people you consider your dear friends, complicating matters.
In comparison, none of the participants in Hunger Games know each other that well, even when they come from the same district like Peeta and Katniss. So the emotional attachment wasn't there in the first place. The story focuses mostly on Katniss and her POV. The story, however, makes a strong use of tactical alliance that we see often in reality TV these days, something that most Royale's students don't bother to do because their emotions got the better of them.
There are some parts that are similar between the two but Battle Royale isn't as focused on the mechanics of the game and the romantic aspect between characters as Hunger Games, which depending on your POV, can be interesting or not. Also, The Capitol and its inhabitants are quite interesting on its own. What I'm most curious, however, is how the camera will be implemented during the game. When I read the book, I wonder how it's possible that the camera captures every moment of the game.
I know. I don't feel that one should look at it in that light, though, and I'm doubtful that the readers themselves do either, at least the teenagers. I can understand where this idea comes from, and I actually agree with it, but I don't think Collins wrote it with this message intentionally. Instead, the young adult dystopian fictions almost always mirror what seems to be the teen experience because that is what teenagers naturally want to read. If she did, then cool, and then it's true. It's not a reach to believe that that is what she had in mind.
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