Yeah I am talking about the same fuzzy guard. It's nice, it's useful at times, but it's not anywhere near as essential as OS's are in SF4.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The King Of Fighters XIII + Steam Edition |OT| Now on Steam with Improved Netcode!
- Thread starter Fersis
- Start date
Yeah I am talking about the same fuzzy guard. It's nice, it's useful at times, but it's not anywhere near as essential as OS's are in SF4.
Interficium
Banned
Have to disagree here.
In general fighting games are more casual then ever, especially since the start of the "SFIV era" and are getting even more so (see: SFxT). Never before has becoming competent at a fighting game been so easy.
The reason why KOFXII is receiving positive buzz is because it harkens back to what is basically a bygone era of fighters such as CvS2 and the 2000s KOFs.
SolarKnight
Member
Sheesh, and here I thought Shen's trials should be relatively easy...
I disagree. I'm rewarded for my execution and meta game of saving meter in order to such a combo. In ST I can do 50% in 3 hits. I much prefer this method.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
In a 1 on 1 game, if 80% damage combos off a basic hit was too easy to do, I'd agree. You got to remember this is a team game though. Just because it's not real time tagging, you are still fighting a game and your total health pool is three characters.
Plus, using a lot of meter and such to kill off one character leaves that player at a disadvantage.
Tizoc
Member
Comparing combos in ST to KoF XIII is pretty silly.
Hardly any games back in the old era had damage scaling to begin with.
Also 3 hit combos that do 50% damage in those games are great, why you hatin' =/
CadetMahoney
Member
Dave Long said:
yes and no. Vice for example is really cheap in this regards, she's basically got an anywhere on screen start-up option for long combos. And it can be started on accident from a trade and then hit confirmed.
Having said that, utilising it is out of the casuals possibilities so you have to be semi-competent to pull it off consistsently. It's actually the easiest hd combo to start off because it's an anywhere hit confirm. Opponent on air or on the ground it can be started from there.
it is pretty cheap, but i'm sure SNK probably know what they're doing giving it to her.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Probably one of the reasons why said move deals 0 damage while still counting for the purpose of scaling.
GotchaForce
Member
Can you link to some more info on this? Haven't even touched her yet.
Loving Billy/Kula so far, I can hold my own against most with Billy. Really need a third but I've not really delved into half the cast.
I'm not hating. I love ST. One of the best fighters ever (even if it's not one of my favorite games, I can appreciate it).
Just saying, if somebody is going to do lots of damage to me, I'd rather it be in the form of something which requires a lot of effort on the end of the person dealing the damage.
CadetMahoney
Member
I haven't experimented too much with Mature combo-wise. From the little I have tested the long combo options are limited to doing HD combos "the hard way". As in standing hit press BC into next hit. . . the easy way is to press BC during a move (for example Joe qcb+BC in a combo to activate hd mode and do a move at the same time).
She's got a short option after the last rekka with a drive canceled Despair into standing C as opponent in the air.
I'm enjoying it so far. Lot more viable strategies this time around. Ash got really buffed up and is annoying as hell to play against. Beni's got new interesting tech but they slightly changed the input read for his rekka which keeps throwing me off. Leona is still good if you never ever use moon slasher unless someone does a normal jump at you.
To be fair there's a lot of big names that play AE/Ultimate at TNT so I understand why KOF was kept at the side. They did stream the Loser's Finals and Grand Finals for KOF as well.
I hope they use another setup for KOF next time though because it took forever with just one.
CadetMahoney
Member
any hit no matter if opponent is in the air or ground that hit's or trades with her not being knocked down into that BC arm whip that brings you back in. After that it's all stay-free for the opponent lol. When someone has Vice last stacking bars it really puts it into perspective how cheap it is. If you jump you're in trouble because her air cd is so good, basically there is no safe way to minimize the risk of being hit by anything, except being at the end of the screen because anything can combo into it.
She only has to be right once, you can be right once but she is has any more opportunity to be right because it can be anywhere on screen and it can be started off a trade hit too. There is no easier barrier to long combo entry that I can think off at the top of my head. You still have to be fairly competent to do it. Casuals won't be able to abuse it imo.
Many of the long combos are conditional in the corner and the opponent has to be grounded. Look for Vice youtubes if you wanna see what she can do after she has you dragged in front of her.
If they took out the air hit opportunities I think it would make it more fair.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Could someone clarify how the arcade endings work? Do official teams have personalized endings? Does any particular character on the team have to deliver the final blow to the boss?
1./Yes.
2./No.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
'tanks
SolarKnight
Member
Official teams get their own endings, custom teams get a default ending, unless they include Ash (he has his own ending, but I haven't seen it so I assume he has deal the finishing blow), or is a specific combination (Kyo,K,Ash for example) that gives you a special artwork.
SolarKnight
Member
Just because the character has a star it doesn't mean that it has all its colors unlocked though.
Also, just confirmed it, and yeah, Ash's ending is the only one that needs a specific character to beat Dark Ash. Dunno if Saiki or Billy have something similar, but I kinda doubt it.
PS: Vice STILL makes everyone his bitch even in Very Hard. I could've gotten a perfect on D. Ash if I wasn't going for Ash's ending.
Also, just confirmed it, and yeah, Ash's ending is the only one that needs a specific character to beat Dark Ash. Dunno if Saiki or Billy have something similar, but I kinda doubt it.
PS: Vice STILL makes everyone his bitch even in Very Hard. I could've gotten a perfect on D. Ash if I wasn't going for Ash's ending.
Terareflection
Member
There's some kind of glitch with character usage data, it was mentioned on Atlus' forums.
I wouldn't call any of this "cheap", however. There's a reason Vice isn't played as often as she could be, and Mature gets more overall use.
Vice has no safe Chip damage options. Without her "lighting leg" kick from the older games, she's lacking in that regard. That damage-scaling arm swipe does no chip damage on block, and the only one you can combo into without meter only leads to 1 command grab. Both Shoulder charges leave her open on block, Even the EX one isn't a good opener...
She no longer has her invincibile-on-startup easy grab (hcf+p), and this gives her kinda meh reversal options.
She's missing her deep-hitting jump D, her hop C is ok, but not the easiest to move in with, leaving her best jumpin for combos her hop a, which still has to be hit kinda deep, even deeper on consoles, to continue to combo.
This leaves her best open-up combo options as crouch B. It has great range, but since her hops and jumps are kinda slower and very horizontal, it limits her approach.
Also, her Stand C is MUCH shorter range than her old one, Her crouch C is barely an anti-air anymore, and she doesn't have her close D for anti-jump over stopping either. Her old 2 hit D used to be a nice hit confirm, special cancellable and all, but now, her new 2 hit D, D is only HD cancellable.
She's kinda hard to play as a 1st, as she depends on meter to work best, more than almost anyone else in the game. Maxima and Clark can open up an opponenet much more actively, and also both work better without meter than her, I'd say. This makes her something of a specialist, which isn't horrible at all, but it think it safely keeps her from truly being "cheap".
Not to mention it's pretty easy to zone her out. Clark at least has his EX Gattlings + Hops, and Maxima has Guardpoints; other than Neomax, what's she got to get back in? The incredibly risky near-full-screen Splash? Her and Maxima's Neomax's are about equal in the "full screen punish" department, so that's not a huge special boon for her or anything...
I rather like playing Vice in this game, don't get me wrong, but with the way the OTHER grapplers in the game have raised up since Arcade, I think her personal gimmick is well balanced aganist them.
I feel ya on the "Fighting game players don't play for FUN anymore!" feel. As I'm forced to look at them less as hot-blooded bouts of combat, and more as mathmatical computations of stats, traps, and finely-crafted combos, I find my reason for playing them shifting. I hated looking up combos and strats online, because part of the fun was finding out stuff on your own... to me, that was what made them endlessly replayable!
I hate the "play to win!" -> "Winning is the only thing that matters!" outlook, haha. I understand it, sure, but watching people play with the wimpiest, gutless, cheeziest stuff is annoying on a personal level, haha. I often wonder how they could even be happy with such hollow victories.
But I think the very thing you pointed out up there, "80% HD combos", and their ilk, are the main thing that help make this game much more than JUST a crazy-execution, serious-business fighter. Like any fighter, you better be able to land damage when you need to, to push up your chances for victory, but XIII gives you so many ways to do that! It's not just all "high execution = high damage = victory!"
Big, complicated combos save the player meter, but also leave the opponent with loads to work with.
Short, easier to do combos give almost anyone the ability to land damage with just "Hit, Special, super." It cost more meter, but it also doesn't give the opponent as much to use aganist you.
Both stay relevant throughout playing the game. There's a reason for each, so the applicable skills for play are wider than in a game where you only can compete while using certain tools.
I find this much more plesant, personally, than say, fighting with the character I wanna play, VS a perfect synergy team in MvC3. The amount of assist relaunches + combos, resets, instant-kill setups on previous character death, X-factor turnovers... It invalidates certain choices and playstyles, and forces you to fit into tighter niches, as the opponent skill level raises.
There's less of that in XIII. It might have a smaller cast, but I find more of the members fitting wider ranges of playstyles. Less "play a character this way, or don't play them at all!", more "Oh, want to play this way? Well, you've got normals and EX's to help you do that!" - I find that makes the game feel more like
pure, honest fighitng?!?
TL;DR: The diversity of systems helps this game stay more "fun" than any fighter I've played recently, personally.
An element of "fun" to me is "play as you want to!", and I think this game help you do that, better than most (if not all!) modern fighters.
You have three characters. The 80% combos take a lot of practice. Why should they eliminate it?
If you put in time to learn this shit it better do some damage or whats the point? Why take it out, so you can get hit more? You're still going to lose, it will just be a slow painful death instead of a quick one.
Fighting games at their core to me is getting punished as hard as possible for making even the smallest mistake, not about giving you a bunch of chances to fuck up and give you a false sense of accomplishment.
For the record Vanilla SF4 is my favorite out of the series. Damage got reduced across the board in Super and just became less intense. When you know the next hit can end a match it makes for some really tense and exciting matches.
I am noticing that I've seen a lot more diversity in playstyle in this game then I do in other games, but that's typical for KOF. One thing I've always enjoyed about the series was that you really could play a wide variety of styles. With all the HD craziness in 13 vids, I was worried that I'd have to play that way, and if HD was the only way to win, I'd probably have dumped this game.
Generally, my use of HD is to get a cheaper Neomax, or drive cancels, and I feel this is a valid technique, especially with some chars like Daimon or Mai (having Neomax with Mai= opponent doesn't throw fireballs)
Generally, my use of HD is to get a cheaper Neomax, or drive cancels, and I feel this is a valid technique, especially with some chars like Daimon or Mai (having Neomax with Mai= opponent doesn't throw fireballs)
Interficium
Banned
Hours Left
Member
Elisabeth Team ending...
Billy & Saiki may have to be the first member of your team too*, though I'm not 100% sure about that.
*Meaning the first member you choose when you pick your whole team, not the fight order.
;_;
To get Billy & Saiki's special ending artwork, they have to be the one to deal the final blow to the last boss. (I know that because the first time I used Billy, I just got the generic Edit Team ending, but when he defeated the last boss they next time through, I got his art also.)
Billy & Saiki may have to be the first member of your team too*, though I'm not 100% sure about that.
*Meaning the first member you choose when you pick your whole team, not the fight order.
SolarKnight
Member
Oh ok then.
That and
http://i.imgur.com/OWu38.jpg
The year’s at the spring, and day’s at the morn; morning’s at seven; the hill-side’s dew-pearled; the lark’s on the wing; the snail’s on the thorn; God’s in his heaven—-all’s right with the world!
(that freaking music ;_
always make me sad
That and
http://i.imgur.com/OWu38.jpg
The year’s at the spring, and day’s at the morn; morning’s at seven; the hill-side’s dew-pearled; the lark’s on the wing; the snail’s on the thorn; God’s in his heaven—-all’s right with the world!
(that freaking music ;_
always make me sad
If Ash pretty much erased all of his bloodline out of existence, what's her mother doing still existing though?
Holy Order Sol
Member
Or jump, or do anything at all lol. Mai is awesome in this.
Yeah, I've run into more then my share of lameout Mais, she's awesome at it. Then again , she's not good at doing big damage so she needs to lame folks out some.
I'm considering putting her on my team, even though everyone expects me to do it. If I can get Billy down, I'd be using my entire 2k2 team again, for entirely different reasons/roles.
GotchaForce
Member
If we're talking story, I'd forgotten (or never delved into) what was going on with the Ash saga. Ending was surprisingly touching. The whole story mode was pretty cool for some fanservice images and scenes.
CadetMahoney
Member
It's a win button really lol.
I said she didn't have it. That's her weakness. If she could do the damage of the rest of the cast she'd be overpowered.
She can do big damage, but it takes a lot more work/meter, and harder to land.
Tizoc
Member
Ooops my bad sorry >_<
Urban Scholar
Member
Holy Order Sol
Member
Someone should ask him about 02UM for kicks.
Tizoc
Member
Yeah KoF 13's trials are pretty hard.
I've played many 2D fighting game trials over the years and some if not most of KoF 13's make me feel 'Good fucking riddance' at completing them, rather then "Hehe, YATA!".
Gah, brb, gonna go redo SFEX2's trial modes for the umpteenth time X3
I've played many 2D fighting game trials over the years and some if not most of KoF 13's make me feel 'Good fucking riddance' at completing them, rather then "Hehe, YATA!".
Gah, brb, gonna go redo SFEX2's trial modes for the umpteenth time X3
Tizoc
Member
"DO...YOUR BREAST!"
Thank goodness Maxima's are the easiest to do out of the entire cast~
sixteen-bit
Member
The struggle is finished!
Congrats!
Tizoc
Member
R_thanatos
Member
Just got my copy and just finished a long set of matches with friendd.
Damn the game is awesome
Damn the game is awesome
CadetMahoney
Member
I have a suspicion mais neo is 1 frame? Opponent is in the air and they don't move at all (i.e. a few frames falling down) at any stage once it starts. :-o or maybe I just can't be bothered checking properly.
I think it is also. It's just ridiculous how it's effectively a full-screen 50%. Naked HD mode Mai shuts opponents down at full screen- it's a great time-waster move if you've got them up on their last character- they can't do anything, and then you still got the two stocks for CD counters if you want to be a really lame bastard.
Urban Scholar
Member
NEC XII will have KOF 13 on stream at 8pm EST guys - http://www.twitch.tv/8wayrun