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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Sen II and Ao
Major Ending spoilers for Sen II and Zero/Ao
I feel pretty firm on my opinion of the game at this point so here's my Kiseki series ratings so far:
Ao > Zero > Sora The 3rd > SC > Sen II > FC > Sen I.
Major Ending spoilers for Sen II and Zero/Ao
So got back to the game and did the "final chapter", which ended up being way shorter than I expected considering very little had happened in the game until that point, I expected an Ao sized final chapter with lots of happenings...but it was just a small short dungeon and then final dungeon.
And yeah, every SC/Ao/II I'm gonna keep complaining about Falcom's final dungeons because they're not hard, they're just REALLY LONG and tiresome. And the whole do a section fight a boss character, repeat while climbing a tower/tree is getting pretty formulaic. Hell the whole game was. Sen II was just as by the books repetitive Kiseki as every other Kiseki game outside Ao. Kind of a shame.
Man, this story. /sigh. Yes it's very apparent than Sen I & Sen II were supposed to be a single story, single game. If you took Sen I and cut 20 hours of filler out of it and then took Sen II and cut 40 hours of filler out of it and pasted together a single 60-70 hour game I'd have loved it and said "Hey Falcom's really stepping up their FC/Zero first half chapter games!". But the Sen FC story just doesn't really work the way they chopped it up and padded it to hell with filler. Sen I has the setup for the world and characters and very little plot, Sen II the final chapter plot that you'd expect at the end of Sen FC; so about 5-10 hours of actual non-filler story. Padding the rest to make a 60 hour rpg, even if the padded gameplay of exploring around the world is fun and face it, Act II basically 30 hours of filler in Sen II, story-wise it just doesn't work. Sen II's story is A) Getting the crew back together (Ao final chapter Act I), collecting people/materials for ultimate mecha weapon (Ao skipped this and instead had lots of exciting story tower assault stuff full of cameos Estelle/Joshua/Ren/Kevin/etc....), and then Act III is just climb the final dungeon, fight bosses, get to the ending and then final get some real Kiseki plot for the first time in all of Sen I & II (Ao's final chapter did it much better). Sen II is basically Ao's final 30 hour chapter except far less good and padded with 30 hours of filler bogging the pacing all around.
Also the characters in Sen, both main cast, and support cast are hugely underdeveloped and far less interesting than Sora or Crossbell. When I started the epilogue gaiden in Crossbell I immediately cared more about the plot than the other 130 hours of Sen 1 + 2 to that point because Lloyd, Rissha, Tsao, Grace and such are just such better characters than the Sen characters. They're actually good people I want to root for and care about. Hell, if the future of Kiseki characters are more like Sen's cast, then can I just have Lloyd, Randy, Tio, Estelle, Joshua and Kevin be the main characters for all the rest of the Kiseki games? I miss having good characters to motivate me to get through Kiseki games, because honestly the repetition and pacing problems in the series are pretty bad, and the gameplay is ups and downs (the mech fights were pretty terrible in Sen II since the battle system is too shallow), but the main reason to keep playing in Kiseki is for the story and characters and Sen I&II was very lacking in both. It's easily the worst story yet by a good margin.
Doesn't help that Sen I/II were so predictable + having spoiled certain stuff for Sen in Ao. The first time I was surprised in 130 hours of Sen I & II was when Rufus was working for Osborn. That was the first interesting twist and plot development in the entire game. I like it, it was a good twist and it gave an extra layer to the story.
Then there was a second interesting piece of story when Osborn picks a fight with Ouroboros which I didn't see coming. I liked that they acknowledged his past dealings with Oro, working with them pre and during Sora FC/SC because it was kind of odd that Oro was working with Caine and the nobles against Osborn since Osborn had worked with them in the past. If they didn't acknowledge it, that'd be a weird elephant in the corner. But yeah Osborn saying he's taking over Oro's plan and if they get in his way, bring it, was cool because it means now it's a 4 way conflict with Osborn & Opposing Team Good & Oroboros, and the Church as well. Makes Sen III or whenever they're going to deal with this much more interesting.
Then there's another twist/piece of information that Reanne is Osborn's son. That was waaaaaaaay too tropey for me. However if it somehow allows Reanne to be the antagonist villian in Sen III or whatever, I'M ALL FOR IT. Because if Sen I & II's story is supposed to essentially be The Empire Strikes Back, where Team VII and especially Reanne discover they're useful and everyone's been playing them and Crowe died for nothing and it pushes Reanne to become a BAD GUY that you have to take down later on...I am ok with that! Especially because I don't really like this cast and I'd get more enjoyment from fighting them as enemies then playing more games as Team VII. I guess the epilogue will give me more info on this (just started the epilogue crossbell chapter, it's really weird seeing Lloyd in realistic proportions. He looks too tall; but it's Lloyd in Crossbell, so I'm happy).
The sub-antagonists in Sen II were actually pretty good characters and better than my first impression going by their looks. Fi & Zephyr was nice (especially how it plays into Crossbell's Mercenary Arc), although just like a lot of the sub-antagonists stories it suffers from being underdeveloped because you meet these antagonists like 3 times and all 3 times they just jump out for a fight, talk a bit and then leave. It's not like they have a story or are doing anything besides being bodyguards, so it all comes off as underdeveloped and it's hard not to compare the Mercenary Subplot with Zephyr to all the REALLY GREAT Mercenary Subplot with the Red Constellation in Ao and this just doesn't compare at all. Still Fi was one of the more likeable main cast by the end. I thought Millium was fun too by the end of Sen II just for her goofy slapstick stuff. Those two Sarah, and most of the adults were best characters. I wish the adults had bigger roles, as some of the teachers like the Blue Haired smoking guy (Makalov or something) who is strangely voiced despite having like 15 lines in the entire series, or the principal who with his big football shoulders I totally thought would jump in as a support character at some point and it was kind of sad when he didn't. More Nighthart or however you spell his name would've been nice since he's interesting but even with his scenes he's really underdeveloped and when he's fighting with Mueller it shows a bit how Mueller is a 10x more interesting character just because we don't know that much about Nighthart.
Other sub-antagonist stuff. Macbain was great, and the scene with him and Laura's dad, was awesome and probably the most exciting entertaining scene in the game. The stuff about him outside of the physical realm's powers and how it plays into Rean's piece of "other" in him and how it possibly ties in with the 3rd and Zero/Ao's demon realm stuff was pretty interesting even if it only brings in questions and not any answers in this game.
The Knight girl was lol. She was funny in her bit in Ao and here even if she was a one-note joke character, it was nice having a lively personality in Sen since everyone, even Lector, is totally serious and flat tone in the games.
Also the final tower was interesting in how it presented power levels. I know one of my concerns from Sen I was how are a bunch of schoolkids in their first year at military academy going to get strong enough to take down Oroborous agents within a year or two of the Sen I & II story.
So it was interesting how they don't. The game tried to be pretty realistic in that even after everything the main cast has been through in Sen I & II, and all the monsters/people/robots they've beat and things they've accomplished as they've grown in their abilities, the final dungeon is them not being able to beat ANYONE outside Crowe who is believable since he's a fellow schoolkid with just a couple of years more experience fighting/piloting mechs, and Vita but despite being an Oro Pillar, she's about magic and scheming and nothing ever said she was a good fighter. I mean Team VII at their best still loses to Blublanc, Speedy Knight, Zephyr Mercs, Macbain. People that the Sora cast by the end of SC were beating and that Lloyd and crew were beating by the end of Ao (Sigmund >> Zephyr Mercs for sure).
So basically I like that the game makes it apparent in the end that Team VII sucks, and they only get through the story by everyone more experienced saving their ass over and over. It's address my concerns about a cast of schoolkids. Then again, playing a very lengthy rpg like this where in the end final dungeon, final boss fights against these antagonists, in cutscenes you are losing and have to run away from every single battle despite no-damage killing them gameplay-wise in a few minutes, does make it a lot less satisfying. It just feels like not accomplishing anything, and that Sen I & II really, really, really is an FC game and it's mainly just there to set up the next game(s) in the Kiseki series and not to be all that satisfying on its own.
Like there's soooooooo much setting up for Sen III. Not only is all there all the Western Erebonia talk, but like the one secret quest in Act III has you running around to every church in the country to find a guy AND YOU DON'T EVEN GET TO SEE HIM IN THE END, all you get is a letter where they introduced the Church Holy Knight who'll be the Kevin/Wadji equivalent in the next game. They give him a name, describe his looks and personality a bit, it's all just setting up for the next game!
Like I said, if Sen I+II had been a single 60-70 well-paced game, this would have been a highly entertaining Empire Strikes Back story setting up the Erebonia SC game. But separately, as two 70 hour games with 30-40 hours of padding each? The story doesn't work and is not good.
On the plus side, Sen II is at least a good, fun rpg. So despite that I think there's hardly any story in Sen II, which is kind of a huge issue for a KISEKI GAME when the series is all about storytelling (I really think Nayuta had more and a more satisfying plot than Sen I+II combined; let that sink in), I'd still say Sen II is about an 8/10 or B quality solid rpg (Sen I is like a 6/10 to me). Hopefully this means Sen III will further improve and get to be a 9/10 type rpg like SC/3rd/Zero/Ao were.
While I still need to finish up the epilogue/post-game, and I'll go through it tomorrow (I'm guessing it's just kind of thrown in, so maybe 5-10 hours?),
And yeah, every SC/Ao/II I'm gonna keep complaining about Falcom's final dungeons because they're not hard, they're just REALLY LONG and tiresome. And the whole do a section fight a boss character, repeat while climbing a tower/tree is getting pretty formulaic. Hell the whole game was. Sen II was just as by the books repetitive Kiseki as every other Kiseki game outside Ao. Kind of a shame.
Man, this story. /sigh. Yes it's very apparent than Sen I & Sen II were supposed to be a single story, single game. If you took Sen I and cut 20 hours of filler out of it and then took Sen II and cut 40 hours of filler out of it and pasted together a single 60-70 hour game I'd have loved it and said "Hey Falcom's really stepping up their FC/Zero first half chapter games!". But the Sen FC story just doesn't really work the way they chopped it up and padded it to hell with filler. Sen I has the setup for the world and characters and very little plot, Sen II the final chapter plot that you'd expect at the end of Sen FC; so about 5-10 hours of actual non-filler story. Padding the rest to make a 60 hour rpg, even if the padded gameplay of exploring around the world is fun and face it, Act II basically 30 hours of filler in Sen II, story-wise it just doesn't work. Sen II's story is A) Getting the crew back together (Ao final chapter Act I), collecting people/materials for ultimate mecha weapon (Ao skipped this and instead had lots of exciting story tower assault stuff full of cameos Estelle/Joshua/Ren/Kevin/etc....), and then Act III is just climb the final dungeon, fight bosses, get to the ending and then final get some real Kiseki plot for the first time in all of Sen I & II (Ao's final chapter did it much better). Sen II is basically Ao's final 30 hour chapter except far less good and padded with 30 hours of filler bogging the pacing all around.
Also the characters in Sen, both main cast, and support cast are hugely underdeveloped and far less interesting than Sora or Crossbell. When I started the epilogue gaiden in Crossbell I immediately cared more about the plot than the other 130 hours of Sen 1 + 2 to that point because Lloyd, Rissha, Tsao, Grace and such are just such better characters than the Sen characters. They're actually good people I want to root for and care about. Hell, if the future of Kiseki characters are more like Sen's cast, then can I just have Lloyd, Randy, Tio, Estelle, Joshua and Kevin be the main characters for all the rest of the Kiseki games? I miss having good characters to motivate me to get through Kiseki games, because honestly the repetition and pacing problems in the series are pretty bad, and the gameplay is ups and downs (the mech fights were pretty terrible in Sen II since the battle system is too shallow), but the main reason to keep playing in Kiseki is for the story and characters and Sen I&II was very lacking in both. It's easily the worst story yet by a good margin.
Doesn't help that Sen I/II were so predictable + having spoiled certain stuff for Sen in Ao. The first time I was surprised in 130 hours of Sen I & II was when Rufus was working for Osborn. That was the first interesting twist and plot development in the entire game. I like it, it was a good twist and it gave an extra layer to the story.
Then there was a second interesting piece of story when Osborn picks a fight with Ouroboros which I didn't see coming. I liked that they acknowledged his past dealings with Oro, working with them pre and during Sora FC/SC because it was kind of odd that Oro was working with Caine and the nobles against Osborn since Osborn had worked with them in the past. If they didn't acknowledge it, that'd be a weird elephant in the corner. But yeah Osborn saying he's taking over Oro's plan and if they get in his way, bring it, was cool because it means now it's a 4 way conflict with Osborn & Opposing Team Good & Oroboros, and the Church as well. Makes Sen III or whenever they're going to deal with this much more interesting.
Then there's another twist/piece of information that Reanne is Osborn's son. That was waaaaaaaay too tropey for me. However if it somehow allows Reanne to be the antagonist villian in Sen III or whatever, I'M ALL FOR IT. Because if Sen I & II's story is supposed to essentially be The Empire Strikes Back, where Team VII and especially Reanne discover they're useful and everyone's been playing them and Crowe died for nothing and it pushes Reanne to become a BAD GUY that you have to take down later on...I am ok with that! Especially because I don't really like this cast and I'd get more enjoyment from fighting them as enemies then playing more games as Team VII. I guess the epilogue will give me more info on this (just started the epilogue crossbell chapter, it's really weird seeing Lloyd in realistic proportions. He looks too tall; but it's Lloyd in Crossbell, so I'm happy).
The sub-antagonists in Sen II were actually pretty good characters and better than my first impression going by their looks. Fi & Zephyr was nice (especially how it plays into Crossbell's Mercenary Arc), although just like a lot of the sub-antagonists stories it suffers from being underdeveloped because you meet these antagonists like 3 times and all 3 times they just jump out for a fight, talk a bit and then leave. It's not like they have a story or are doing anything besides being bodyguards, so it all comes off as underdeveloped and it's hard not to compare the Mercenary Subplot with Zephyr to all the REALLY GREAT Mercenary Subplot with the Red Constellation in Ao and this just doesn't compare at all. Still Fi was one of the more likeable main cast by the end. I thought Millium was fun too by the end of Sen II just for her goofy slapstick stuff. Those two Sarah, and most of the adults were best characters. I wish the adults had bigger roles, as some of the teachers like the Blue Haired smoking guy (Makalov or something) who is strangely voiced despite having like 15 lines in the entire series, or the principal who with his big football shoulders I totally thought would jump in as a support character at some point and it was kind of sad when he didn't. More Nighthart or however you spell his name would've been nice since he's interesting but even with his scenes he's really underdeveloped and when he's fighting with Mueller it shows a bit how Mueller is a 10x more interesting character just because we don't know that much about Nighthart.
Other sub-antagonist stuff. Macbain was great, and the scene with him and Laura's dad, was awesome and probably the most exciting entertaining scene in the game. The stuff about him outside of the physical realm's powers and how it plays into Rean's piece of "other" in him and how it possibly ties in with the 3rd and Zero/Ao's demon realm stuff was pretty interesting even if it only brings in questions and not any answers in this game.
The Knight girl was lol. She was funny in her bit in Ao and here even if she was a one-note joke character, it was nice having a lively personality in Sen since everyone, even Lector, is totally serious and flat tone in the games.
Also the final tower was interesting in how it presented power levels. I know one of my concerns from Sen I was how are a bunch of schoolkids in their first year at military academy going to get strong enough to take down Oroborous agents within a year or two of the Sen I & II story.
So it was interesting how they don't. The game tried to be pretty realistic in that even after everything the main cast has been through in Sen I & II, and all the monsters/people/robots they've beat and things they've accomplished as they've grown in their abilities, the final dungeon is them not being able to beat ANYONE outside Crowe who is believable since he's a fellow schoolkid with just a couple of years more experience fighting/piloting mechs, and Vita but despite being an Oro Pillar, she's about magic and scheming and nothing ever said she was a good fighter. I mean Team VII at their best still loses to Blublanc, Speedy Knight, Zephyr Mercs, Macbain. People that the Sora cast by the end of SC were beating and that Lloyd and crew were beating by the end of Ao (Sigmund >> Zephyr Mercs for sure).
So basically I like that the game makes it apparent in the end that Team VII sucks, and they only get through the story by everyone more experienced saving their ass over and over. It's address my concerns about a cast of schoolkids. Then again, playing a very lengthy rpg like this where in the end final dungeon, final boss fights against these antagonists, in cutscenes you are losing and have to run away from every single battle despite no-damage killing them gameplay-wise in a few minutes, does make it a lot less satisfying. It just feels like not accomplishing anything, and that Sen I & II really, really, really is an FC game and it's mainly just there to set up the next game(s) in the Kiseki series and not to be all that satisfying on its own.
Like there's soooooooo much setting up for Sen III. Not only is all there all the Western Erebonia talk, but like the one secret quest in Act III has you running around to every church in the country to find a guy AND YOU DON'T EVEN GET TO SEE HIM IN THE END, all you get is a letter where they introduced the Church Holy Knight who'll be the Kevin/Wadji equivalent in the next game. They give him a name, describe his looks and personality a bit, it's all just setting up for the next game!
Like I said, if Sen I+II had been a single 60-70 well-paced game, this would have been a highly entertaining Empire Strikes Back story setting up the Erebonia SC game. But separately, as two 70 hour games with 30-40 hours of padding each? The story doesn't work and is not good.
On the plus side, Sen II is at least a good, fun rpg. So despite that I think there's hardly any story in Sen II, which is kind of a huge issue for a KISEKI GAME when the series is all about storytelling (I really think Nayuta had more and a more satisfying plot than Sen I+II combined; let that sink in), I'd still say Sen II is about an 8/10 or B quality solid rpg (Sen I is like a 6/10 to me). Hopefully this means Sen III will further improve and get to be a 9/10 type rpg like SC/3rd/Zero/Ao were.
While I still need to finish up the epilogue/post-game, and I'll go through it tomorrow (I'm guessing it's just kind of thrown in, so maybe 5-10 hours?),
Ao > Zero > Sora The 3rd > SC > Sen II > FC > Sen I.
More Sen II and Ao
Major Ending Spoilers for Sen II and Zero/Ao
Major Ending Spoilers for Sen II and Zero/Ao
Oh and I'll admit I was biased playing Sen II because I had expectations of what cool stuff was going to happen in the game. But I don't think it's my fault since The 3rd and Ao HYPED UP LOTS OF EREBONIA STUFF and left subplots off in Ao to be picked right up in Erebonia.
Here's a list of what I was expecting to happen in Sen I/II's story coming from Ao:
-Lots of Olivert (I can't believe he's used less in Sen II than Sen I. He literally has two appearances in the entire game, when he shows up with his ship at the Intermission and when he shows up in the final dungeon with Duval).
-Lots of Mueller & Olivert jokes (They don't even have one scene together in Sen II wtf, the whole reason Mueller rocks is the way him and Olivert dialogue off of each other).
-The three Oroboros Agents from Ao since they literally said BEFORE THE AZURE TREE EVEN SHOWS, "Oh well, I gotta go head to EREBONIA WHERE STUFF IS GOING DOWN RIGHT NOW". Yeah, you get a 3 second tease of Ariangold or whatever her name is in Sen I throwing a lance, but I can't believe she doesn't even show up when so much of Sen II's background story of the war from 250 years ago is about the Steel Maiden. Also Green haired dude doesn't show when he seems involved in the Nosombria Piller of Salt incident considering his S-Break in Ao. I mean when they revealed Sara came from there and the repercussions of the Pillar of Salt incident in the country (and the backstory stuff there was super underdeveloped with just that one short scene), it basically set up her fighting Green Haired Agent. And I thought Mad Scientist guy was heading to Erebonia too with his new mech, but maybe he was just heading back to the 13th factory.
-Going with that, the Illusionary Project that Oro started in Ao and was continuing in Erebonia. Besides that Part 2 was having the Azure and Ash knights fight....we still don't really know much about wtf this Oro plan is. It's kind of annoying that this "plan" that was a chunk of Ao is still going years later and we hardly know anything about it. I mean a lot of the Oro involvement in Sen is even more vague and unexplained than Ao where things kind of fit. Like the second the RED GILGAMESH MECHA is activated, suddenly Vita and Crow are putting up a barrier, on Team VII's side, and ready to take down the Red Mech. Crow I get because he was just helping out, but Vita is like "THIS WASN'T IN THE PLAN; THE MASTER IS GONNA BE PISSED". I'm sorry, but what? Vita ran this entire plan/project with the Nobles and gave them the Red Gilgamesh mech, the GIANT EVIL TOWER CASTLE and was defending Kaine from Team VII while he had Cedric hostage and was trying to use him to start up Terra Rosa. What did she think was going to happen? She didn't expect it to go berserk and turn into SUPER GILGAMESH, but c'mon she'd been working on this for 7 years, guided everything and knew everything and she didn't expect that could happen? Like that part was really weird, and the sudden Vita going from being antagonist to being REALLY A DECENT PERSON was such an instant heel turn that it just made her character and the whole oroboros plan even more wtf.is.going.on and kind of took me out of the plot for a bit. It works with Crow because Crow is a Decent Person fueled by sad revenge. But Vita is built up and shown throughout Sen II as, while maybe not a really BAD person, she's definitely not a good person, so her switching teams instantly was just not great. Also they never really explained her motivations besides as a witch guiding things so they happen again.
PS. at this point because the Oroboros Plan is so vague besides they wanted to make a magical tree appear and didn't care if it disappeared, and that they wanted to set the stage for magical mecha knights to fight and didn't care about the outcome or anything after, for my theory on what their plan is, I'm just going to go with the stupidest thing I can think of: Oroboros wants modern city people to believe in magic again, so they set up these 7 year+ extremely elaborate plans just so giant magical things can show up and people can't deny what they see, that magic exists in the world. Just throwing something at the wall since there's hardly anything to go on.
-The Holy Knights. When Kevin and Wadji are fighting the mechs (so this would've happened around early/mid Sen II), Kevin and Wadji say that the church is getting involved in the Crossbell incident, but that Kevin and Wadji are the only knights they can spare for Crossbell because the bulk of the force is handling the crazy shit going on in Erebonia at the time. (we got nothing but a letter about a new Knight).
-Olivert vs. Osborn & The Iron Children. It's been a long time since 3rd when he threw the declaration of war on Osborn rose (referenced again in Sen I). I want to see this!
-Osborn. He's the most interesting major villain in the series and Erebonia was supposed to be his story but he's hardly in the games.
-Cameos from Liberal arc (since Crossbell is busy). Given the tech and mecha and stuff, Tida could've fit right in for instance. But I think they created a problem with too many main characters in Sen's local school story so they didn't have room for Adults or Cameos, which sucks and is totally unsatisfying.
Probably more stuff, but that's just off the top of my head. And what hurts about Sen I and especially Sen II, is that it's not like they only didn't cover a couple of the items they hyped up. No, they basically didn't cover ANYTHING that they hyped up as going on in Erebonia in 3rd and Ao. Like all that stuff made it seem like Erebonia's Civil War with all that going on was going to be a hugely epic and fantastically entertaining Kiseki story that added a ton to the lore and Kiseki plot advancement.
And then don't forget that Sen II instead of continuing any of that stuff, just adds more mysteries stuff that it really doesn't explain like the Black Factory which is a branch of the 13th Factory, The Black Book (Rufus mentions it once saying it describes the final dungeon castle), The Two Mecha Knights, which if you think about it in the end aren't really even attempted to explain wtf they are besides "Shards of The Power"; I'm assuming The Power is one of the 7 Megami Kisekis, but they need to explain. the "other" that Rean and Macbain have, Rean's Sensei whose still MIA and alive, the war 250 years ago is still very vague and there's stuff that needs filing in and explanation, The Orpheus Project Where the Grand Master will lead everyone's souls, etc...
I think the only thing Sen actually followed through on that was mentioned in 3rd or Ao is Sen showing more of the Iron Children and showing 2 more Oro characters.
Also I think Olivert, Mueller, Lector and Osborn actually had more scenes in Zero & Ao than their own country games Sen I & II. Lector & Meuller for sure did, Olivert & Osborn maybe. But just stop and think about that for a second. Sometimes it's hard to be a Falcom fan ;_; This isn't about wanting cameos even, this is about major characters heavily involved in the fate of their own country where the story is taking place. But then Sen II takes a bunch of these characters and hides them in "WESTERN EREBONIA" (though Lector's in Crossbell and Osborn is staying hidden; but no excuse for what they did with Olivert & Mueller and all the Sen adults outside of Sara post-Act I).
So yes, EVERYTHING I just wrote can all be explained by the single phrase "Sen I&II was meant to be Sen FC", and it wouldn't be all that strange if all those things were what's covered in Sen SC. I mean Zero was pretty self-inclusive and then Ao had all that stuff going on along with its own plotline.
But that doesn't make me happy, because I just spent 130+ hours playing two long Erebonia games, and I didn't get any of the stuff I wanted. So Sen III (or III & IV) better fucking deliver on all of those items with spades to make up for Sen I & II. Sen I&II's weak badly paced, heavily padded & underdeveloped story and lack of any of the good items is almost enough to get me to drop the Kiseki series after being committed for 7 games now. Sen III has a lot of goodwill to restore with me.
Here's a list of what I was expecting to happen in Sen I/II's story coming from Ao:
-Lots of Olivert (I can't believe he's used less in Sen II than Sen I. He literally has two appearances in the entire game, when he shows up with his ship at the Intermission and when he shows up in the final dungeon with Duval).
-Lots of Mueller & Olivert jokes (They don't even have one scene together in Sen II wtf, the whole reason Mueller rocks is the way him and Olivert dialogue off of each other).
-The three Oroboros Agents from Ao since they literally said BEFORE THE AZURE TREE EVEN SHOWS, "Oh well, I gotta go head to EREBONIA WHERE STUFF IS GOING DOWN RIGHT NOW". Yeah, you get a 3 second tease of Ariangold or whatever her name is in Sen I throwing a lance, but I can't believe she doesn't even show up when so much of Sen II's background story of the war from 250 years ago is about the Steel Maiden. Also Green haired dude doesn't show when he seems involved in the Nosombria Piller of Salt incident considering his S-Break in Ao. I mean when they revealed Sara came from there and the repercussions of the Pillar of Salt incident in the country (and the backstory stuff there was super underdeveloped with just that one short scene), it basically set up her fighting Green Haired Agent. And I thought Mad Scientist guy was heading to Erebonia too with his new mech, but maybe he was just heading back to the 13th factory.
-Going with that, the Illusionary Project that Oro started in Ao and was continuing in Erebonia. Besides that Part 2 was having the Azure and Ash knights fight....we still don't really know much about wtf this Oro plan is. It's kind of annoying that this "plan" that was a chunk of Ao is still going years later and we hardly know anything about it. I mean a lot of the Oro involvement in Sen is even more vague and unexplained than Ao where things kind of fit. Like the second the RED GILGAMESH MECHA is activated, suddenly Vita and Crow are putting up a barrier, on Team VII's side, and ready to take down the Red Mech. Crow I get because he was just helping out, but Vita is like "THIS WASN'T IN THE PLAN; THE MASTER IS GONNA BE PISSED". I'm sorry, but what? Vita ran this entire plan/project with the Nobles and gave them the Red Gilgamesh mech, the GIANT EVIL TOWER CASTLE and was defending Kaine from Team VII while he had Cedric hostage and was trying to use him to start up Terra Rosa. What did she think was going to happen? She didn't expect it to go berserk and turn into SUPER GILGAMESH, but c'mon she'd been working on this for 7 years, guided everything and knew everything and she didn't expect that could happen? Like that part was really weird, and the sudden Vita going from being antagonist to being REALLY A DECENT PERSON was such an instant heel turn that it just made her character and the whole oroboros plan even more wtf.is.going.on and kind of took me out of the plot for a bit. It works with Crow because Crow is a Decent Person fueled by sad revenge. But Vita is built up and shown throughout Sen II as, while maybe not a really BAD person, she's definitely not a good person, so her switching teams instantly was just not great. Also they never really explained her motivations besides as a witch guiding things so they happen again.
PS. at this point because the Oroboros Plan is so vague besides they wanted to make a magical tree appear and didn't care if it disappeared, and that they wanted to set the stage for magical mecha knights to fight and didn't care about the outcome or anything after, for my theory on what their plan is, I'm just going to go with the stupidest thing I can think of: Oroboros wants modern city people to believe in magic again, so they set up these 7 year+ extremely elaborate plans just so giant magical things can show up and people can't deny what they see, that magic exists in the world. Just throwing something at the wall since there's hardly anything to go on.
-The Holy Knights. When Kevin and Wadji are fighting the mechs (so this would've happened around early/mid Sen II), Kevin and Wadji say that the church is getting involved in the Crossbell incident, but that Kevin and Wadji are the only knights they can spare for Crossbell because the bulk of the force is handling the crazy shit going on in Erebonia at the time. (we got nothing but a letter about a new Knight).
-Olivert vs. Osborn & The Iron Children. It's been a long time since 3rd when he threw the declaration of war on Osborn rose (referenced again in Sen I). I want to see this!
-Osborn. He's the most interesting major villain in the series and Erebonia was supposed to be his story but he's hardly in the games.
-Cameos from Liberal arc (since Crossbell is busy). Given the tech and mecha and stuff, Tida could've fit right in for instance. But I think they created a problem with too many main characters in Sen's local school story so they didn't have room for Adults or Cameos, which sucks and is totally unsatisfying.
Probably more stuff, but that's just off the top of my head. And what hurts about Sen I and especially Sen II, is that it's not like they only didn't cover a couple of the items they hyped up. No, they basically didn't cover ANYTHING that they hyped up as going on in Erebonia in 3rd and Ao. Like all that stuff made it seem like Erebonia's Civil War with all that going on was going to be a hugely epic and fantastically entertaining Kiseki story that added a ton to the lore and Kiseki plot advancement.
And then don't forget that Sen II instead of continuing any of that stuff, just adds more mysteries stuff that it really doesn't explain like the Black Factory which is a branch of the 13th Factory, The Black Book (Rufus mentions it once saying it describes the final dungeon castle), The Two Mecha Knights, which if you think about it in the end aren't really even attempted to explain wtf they are besides "Shards of The Power"; I'm assuming The Power is one of the 7 Megami Kisekis, but they need to explain. the "other" that Rean and Macbain have, Rean's Sensei whose still MIA and alive, the war 250 years ago is still very vague and there's stuff that needs filing in and explanation, The Orpheus Project Where the Grand Master will lead everyone's souls, etc...
I think the only thing Sen actually followed through on that was mentioned in 3rd or Ao is Sen showing more of the Iron Children and showing 2 more Oro characters.
Also I think Olivert, Mueller, Lector and Osborn actually had more scenes in Zero & Ao than their own country games Sen I & II. Lector & Meuller for sure did, Olivert & Osborn maybe. But just stop and think about that for a second. Sometimes it's hard to be a Falcom fan ;_; This isn't about wanting cameos even, this is about major characters heavily involved in the fate of their own country where the story is taking place. But then Sen II takes a bunch of these characters and hides them in "WESTERN EREBONIA" (though Lector's in Crossbell and Osborn is staying hidden; but no excuse for what they did with Olivert & Mueller and all the Sen adults outside of Sara post-Act I).
So yes, EVERYTHING I just wrote can all be explained by the single phrase "Sen I&II was meant to be Sen FC", and it wouldn't be all that strange if all those things were what's covered in Sen SC. I mean Zero was pretty self-inclusive and then Ao had all that stuff going on along with its own plotline.
But that doesn't make me happy, because I just spent 130+ hours playing two long Erebonia games, and I didn't get any of the stuff I wanted. So Sen III (or III & IV) better fucking deliver on all of those items with spades to make up for Sen I & II. Sen I&II's weak badly paced, heavily padded & underdeveloped story and lack of any of the good items is almost enough to get me to drop the Kiseki series after being committed for 7 games now. Sen III has a lot of goodwill to restore with me.
I'm not sure where you're getting that Sen I/II met my expectations at all. I mean Sen II is a good rpg, just because objectively it is a good rpg and I don't deny that and I'd recommend it to rpg players (though maybe not to Kiseki fans coming from Ao
), especially from a gameplay-perspective. Doesn't mean it can't also be a disappointing rpg, especially story-wise when it doesn't deliver almost at all on what the previous games setup for it to deliver on.Now I just find myself wondering if I set your expectations too highly going into Sen 2. I definitely hyped it up, but I feel pretty strongly about it. It's such a great game with none of the stuff I've grown to dislike about the Kiseki formula. But clearly we're valuing different things in the games, anyway, since 3rd and Sen 2 easily come out on top of my series rankings.
The dub is good. The very beginning (10 minutes or so) is a little shaky as I assume people are getting into their roles but the many hours after that are solid. The voice acting really does elevate a lot of the written lines too, it'd almost be a disservice to you to not have them on.
100% voiced.
Alright, will do my best to go through with it on.
Is it the same writer for Sen that it was for Sora?
Also I never mentioned it here before but TitS SC final chapter spoilers
Is it the same writer for Sen that it was for Sora?
Also I never mentioned it here before but TitS SC final chapter spoilers
it's pretty ridiculous how many visual references there are to PSO episode 1 in the final chapter of that game, absolutely riddled.
Sen II Ending Spoilers
Fwiw, I'm going through the extra stuff, and I just watched the New game+ only exclusive bits:
Also I don't think you hyped up Sen 2 too much, but rather I just don't see eye to eye with you on Sen 2 breaking the "Kiseki Formula", which is what I was looking forward to since you seemed to really like how it diverged from the usual Kiseki repetitive formula of the previous entries.
I mean:
Fwiw, I'm going through the extra stuff, and I just watched the New game+ only exclusive bits:
The Black History book & Thomas' identity as a Church Knight and talking about how this is only the beginning and that there's 2 Megami Artifacts in Erebonia and a system of 7 Mecha Knights & Seirei.
The Black History articles were good. They thoroughly explain the 250 years ago war which was one of my issues. Also the history before that was nice Kiseki lore even if it sounds like now they're just ripping off Xenoblade with the two giants. I swear by the end of Kiseki, Falcom will have managed to borrow every good idea/concept from every other Japanese rpg series and incorporated it into part of Zemuria's lore lol.
Thomas Church Knight reveal was totally thrown in and kind of dumb, and while he was sort of likeable so far in the Sen I/II games, he's certainly no Kevin or Wadji. But the foreshadowing about the big deal Erebonia ancient system stuff was a nice setup for Sen SC.
Kind of annoyed that I couldn't finish one of these last bonus quests because you need the top rank fishing rod for the fishing tournament and I didn't do enough fishing throughout the game to get to that rank. So had to youtube that quest and the Nighthart one since that one won't activate until you've done all the optional quests ><
Now just finishing the last couple of necessary quests and then I'll start the bonus dungeon. I'll probably just youtube all the story bits in it after a floor or two though because 17 floors of Kiseki final dungeon-style dungeon sounds kind of a waste of time.
The Black History articles were good. They thoroughly explain the 250 years ago war which was one of my issues. Also the history before that was nice Kiseki lore even if it sounds like now they're just ripping off Xenoblade with the two giants. I swear by the end of Kiseki, Falcom will have managed to borrow every good idea/concept from every other Japanese rpg series and incorporated it into part of Zemuria's lore lol.
Thomas Church Knight reveal was totally thrown in and kind of dumb, and while he was sort of likeable so far in the Sen I/II games, he's certainly no Kevin or Wadji. But the foreshadowing about the big deal Erebonia ancient system stuff was a nice setup for Sen SC.
Kind of annoyed that I couldn't finish one of these last bonus quests because you need the top rank fishing rod for the fishing tournament and I didn't do enough fishing throughout the game to get to that rank. So had to youtube that quest and the Nighthart one since that one won't activate until you've done all the optional quests ><
Now just finishing the last couple of necessary quests and then I'll start the bonus dungeon. I'll probably just youtube all the story bits in it after a floor or two though because 17 floors of Kiseki final dungeon-style dungeon sounds kind of a waste of time.
Also I don't think you hyped up Sen 2 too much, but rather I just don't see eye to eye with you on Sen 2 breaking the "Kiseki Formula", which is what I was looking forward to since you seemed to really like how it diverged from the usual Kiseki repetitive formula of the previous entries.
I mean:
Act 1 I'll give you breaks from the formula...somewhat. You're moving forward, exploring new and revisted places, doing a few quests, and story along the way.
This is nice, and enjoyable, although it quickly falls into it's own repetitive formula where every chapter plays out the same with going to meet old cast members, doing a few quests in town, fighting one group of new antagonists and then adult comes in and saves the cast, repeat.
But then Act 2 (which is almost half the game)...c'mon, that is everything you dislike about the Kiseki formula. There's some plot movement and then everything stalls while you go around doing your standard Kiseki quests in the same areas over and over again. Then you finish the optional bits and then do the main story bit and there's some plot movement and then it stops again and you do optional quests again in same old areas repeat. While having the ship is nice and exciting and fast travel is helpful, this whole section is pretty much filler and no different than the monthly travel excursions in Sen I or Town chapters in Sora. It's alright stuff, but super Kiseki repetitive.
And then Act 3 is simply the final dungeon. And post-game is a few things with some answers and some more teasing.
I think what I was hoping for and thought you were describing Sen II as, was that it was paced more like a normal rpg like how the final chapters in Kiseki games tend to be. Going from one place to another, always moving forward to with the plot, good exciting events happening constantly.
I mean people (not you Aeana), in this thread were comparing the excitement of Sen II events to Ao, that Sen II was filled with constant exciting events on the level of Ao. But I disagree completely. Ao from about halfway in to the end was filled with really great exciting stuff that moved the plots along and were just full of interesting revelations and events and great character movements. Sen II's events imo are not that exciting, I think the entire Sen I & II is fairly dull tbh, it's a filler story about boring underdeveloped nobles taking over the capital and then Class VII taking it back...yawn. The best scene in all of Act II imo was Angelica & her Father's clashing and resolution since that subplot seemed interesting, although you had to put a lot of imagination into the background since the game really under develops her father's character.
Also after playing the Crossbell Gaiden in Sen II, I think Sen, as whole, is just missing some of the charisma and fun that made Kiseki an enjoyable world until this point. It feels like with Sen I & II they tried to make things "realistic", which meant dull and serious. Even Lloyd & Reesha felt off because they were just missing some of that liveliness that the Crossbell games had, and the scenes felt so dry. Outside of Millium, Sen I & II are basically humorless rpgs, which is a huge misfire for the series imo. Hell the series started with Estelle jumping on an injured Joshua in bed. It's always mixed light humor with seriousness to create very likeable characters (like Wadji in Crossbell) that can get serious and dramatic when needed. Rean is always so angry/angsty. I seriously hope this is not the direction the series plans on going for the rest of the games, with more serious realism and less fun, because I think it's a big part of why Sen I & II are a lot less enjoyable games for me compared to the earlier chapters in the Kiseki series.
Just my two cents.
This is nice, and enjoyable, although it quickly falls into it's own repetitive formula where every chapter plays out the same with going to meet old cast members, doing a few quests in town, fighting one group of new antagonists and then adult comes in and saves the cast, repeat.
But then Act 2 (which is almost half the game)...c'mon, that is everything you dislike about the Kiseki formula. There's some plot movement and then everything stalls while you go around doing your standard Kiseki quests in the same areas over and over again. Then you finish the optional bits and then do the main story bit and there's some plot movement and then it stops again and you do optional quests again in same old areas repeat. While having the ship is nice and exciting and fast travel is helpful, this whole section is pretty much filler and no different than the monthly travel excursions in Sen I or Town chapters in Sora. It's alright stuff, but super Kiseki repetitive.
And then Act 3 is simply the final dungeon. And post-game is a few things with some answers and some more teasing.
I think what I was hoping for and thought you were describing Sen II as, was that it was paced more like a normal rpg like how the final chapters in Kiseki games tend to be. Going from one place to another, always moving forward to with the plot, good exciting events happening constantly.
I mean people (not you Aeana), in this thread were comparing the excitement of Sen II events to Ao, that Sen II was filled with constant exciting events on the level of Ao. But I disagree completely. Ao from about halfway in to the end was filled with really great exciting stuff that moved the plots along and were just full of interesting revelations and events and great character movements. Sen II's events imo are not that exciting, I think the entire Sen I & II is fairly dull tbh, it's a filler story about boring underdeveloped nobles taking over the capital and then Class VII taking it back...yawn. The best scene in all of Act II imo was Angelica & her Father's clashing and resolution since that subplot seemed interesting, although you had to put a lot of imagination into the background since the game really under develops her father's character.
Also after playing the Crossbell Gaiden in Sen II, I think Sen, as whole, is just missing some of the charisma and fun that made Kiseki an enjoyable world until this point. It feels like with Sen I & II they tried to make things "realistic", which meant dull and serious. Even Lloyd & Reesha felt off because they were just missing some of that liveliness that the Crossbell games had, and the scenes felt so dry. Outside of Millium, Sen I & II are basically humorless rpgs, which is a huge misfire for the series imo. Hell the series started with Estelle jumping on an injured Joshua in bed. It's always mixed light humor with seriousness to create very likeable characters (like Wadji in Crossbell) that can get serious and dramatic when needed. Rean is always so angry/angsty. I seriously hope this is not the direction the series plans on going for the rest of the games, with more serious realism and less fun, because I think it's a big part of why Sen I & II are a lot less enjoyable games for me compared to the earlier chapters in the Kiseki series.
Just my two cents.
Dub, and don't form your opinion on the dub based on the first hour. Once they're on fire, they're unstoppable.
I usually don't take kindly to a lot of JP to English dubs, but I enjoyed the voicework for XSEED's release. Also what the others said about the start of the game, too. Once they get into it, it gets good.
Cold Steel I&II and Ao Spoilers
I'll join the discussion since I feel the same as Bebpo about Sen I&II. I think they are good JRPGs but weak Kiseki games.
I'll join the discussion since I feel the same as Bebpo about Sen I&II. I think they are good JRPGs but weak Kiseki games.
I also expected Sen II to be the SC/Ao chapter of the Erebonia arc.
While I enjoyed the Part I of Sen II, and a bit of Part II, I didn't expect that a Kiseki game would be so much uneventful. It didn't help that Sen had the weakest cast of the series too: the game has far too many characters for its own good.
When reaching the end of the Final Chapter, exciting things were happening, the plot was finally moving forward... but it was already over.
My main fear is that Sen III won't be able to handle all the introduced subplots and pace them well throughout the game:
Sen III will have to:
- conclude the Crossbell part (it is now inevitable because of Sen II gaiden, and I think it is unnecessary)
- conclude Rean's&co story
- 2 Sept-terrion + the Holy Knights
- Western Erebonia
- Ouroboros vs Church vs Osborne vs Good guys
- and much much more...
I really hope they manage to pace all these events well without making the player have an overdose halfway through the game. I really look forward to Sen III but I can't help to have a lower expectation now...
And no, I don't think Sen IV would be a great solution.
Starting the Calvard arc without getting a closure for all these elements seems to be more quite possible.
While I enjoyed the Part I of Sen II, and a bit of Part II, I didn't expect that a Kiseki game would be so much uneventful. It didn't help that Sen had the weakest cast of the series too: the game has far too many characters for its own good.
When reaching the end of the Final Chapter, exciting things were happening, the plot was finally moving forward... but it was already over.
My main fear is that Sen III won't be able to handle all the introduced subplots and pace them well throughout the game:
Sen III will have to:
- conclude the Crossbell part (it is now inevitable because of Sen II gaiden, and I think it is unnecessary)
- conclude Rean's&co story
- 2 Sept-terrion + the Holy Knights
- Western Erebonia
- Ouroboros vs Church vs Osborne vs Good guys
- and much much more...
I really hope they manage to pace all these events well without making the player have an overdose halfway through the game. I really look forward to Sen III but I can't help to have a lower expectation now...
And no, I don't think Sen IV would be a great solution.
Starting the Calvard arc without getting a closure for all these elements seems to be more quite possible.
Sen II
Ok, so after the true end and 24 hours to take in the entire game, in the end I like Sen II. Heck I even like Sen I. Do I think they are good games on their own? No. But together as a single FC game, it's like a DQVII-length 140 hour insanely long "first-half" story and taken as that it's a nice story.
By the end of Sen II, they've done a good job moving all the pieces around to setup all of the characters and subplots into the right position to be interesting for the Second Half game, whether that's Sen III or Sen III+IV because once again they'll need 140 hours to tell the remaining 50% of Erebonia's story.
While I wish they'd cut about half the fat out of Sen I+II, because goddamn the pacing is atrocious for most of it, Sen I+II has a nice beginning, middle and end for an FC story. As long as you don't expect anything more than a FC story setting up for the SC tale, Sen I+II does a good satisfying job.
Now if you expect more than that, and expect answers to things, or even the main Erebonia story to start in Sen II....yeah, you're gonna end up disappointed and angry at the end, like I was, just like if you were expecting things to happen in the end of Sen I. For instance, truly important things do not happen in Sen II. The characters still feel underdeveloped by the end of Sen II. On its own that can be a downer, but then you realize there's still 50% of the story left for the characters to shine and finish their development arcs and what happens in Sen I+II gives a good "start" for each of the main cast characters and almost everyone they're building up to.
Now ending spoilers territory:
Ok, so after the true end and 24 hours to take in the entire game, in the end I like Sen II. Heck I even like Sen I. Do I think they are good games on their own? No. But together as a single FC game, it's like a DQVII-length 140 hour insanely long "first-half" story and taken as that it's a nice story.
By the end of Sen II, they've done a good job moving all the pieces around to setup all of the characters and subplots into the right position to be interesting for the Second Half game, whether that's Sen III or Sen III+IV because once again they'll need 140 hours to tell the remaining 50% of Erebonia's story.
While I wish they'd cut about half the fat out of Sen I+II, because goddamn the pacing is atrocious for most of it, Sen I+II has a nice beginning, middle and end for an FC story. As long as you don't expect anything more than a FC story setting up for the SC tale, Sen I+II does a good satisfying job.
Now if you expect more than that, and expect answers to things, or even the main Erebonia story to start in Sen II....yeah, you're gonna end up disappointed and angry at the end, like I was, just like if you were expecting things to happen in the end of Sen I. For instance, truly important things do not happen in Sen II. The characters still feel underdeveloped by the end of Sen II. On its own that can be a downer, but then you realize there's still 50% of the story left for the characters to shine and finish their development arcs and what happens in Sen I+II gives a good "start" for each of the main cast characters and almost everyone they're building up to.
Now ending spoilers territory:
First of all, I don't get how there was ever discussion on whether Sen could be over at part II and any Falcom talk about Calvard after Sen II, had to be nothing but misdirection. From a writing perspective the game clearly sets up an SC Erebonia game in every single way, even down to ending with "hey by guys, don't worry I get the feeling we'll see each other again real soon *winkwinkwink*", and multiple characters saying the whole Fire Magic Castle thing was just the beginning, just like the first barrier unlock in Sora FC at the final dungeon. And then you have Thomas straight out saying the real Erebonia story, Aka the story about the "SYSTEM" in place with the 7 Magic Mecha Knights and the 2 Megami's Artifacts is just about to start. And you have Osborn picking a fight with both Oroboro & The Church with 1 Church Knight in West (old Lion guy we haven't met) and 1 Knight in East which is Thomas.
I mean Sen 1+2 is an FC game through and through. It's exactly like Sora FC & Zero. Only it took 2 games and twice the game length to accomplish the same amount. But yes, Sen does have like twice the characters, especially if you count all the NPCs and their stories (Sen has way too many NPCs and the NPC dialogue for EVERYONE is updated far too frequently; like it's cool, but it's overkill).
Anyhow, I liked the true end, it was nice and the goodbyes and everything was a nice way to end the first half Erebonia story. Pretty satisfying and most of the issues I have with the plots and character developments is because there's still 50% of Erebonia story with this same cast left to tell. See, one of the main reasons I had issues with Sen II was I thought Sen II was supposed to be the conclusion to most of these character's stories; and it did a pretty weak job in that aspect.
So basically Sen 3 (and probably 4, which is going to be pretty annoying because Sen III will start getting real good and exciting and then just end like Sen I probably :| Also if you have to spend 20 hours gathering together all of the cast to re-introduce them two more times in Sen 3 & Sen 4, it's gonna get pretty tiresome so I hope they avoid that if they end up going to Sen 4) is going to be:
1. The Seirei story. While I'm not really big on Kiseki diving into the Tales of Seirei mythology, it's pretty clear we'll actually meet the Seirei in the SC game. The only question I really have is whether the 7 seirei cover all of Zemuria and Erebonia SC story will just be about the Gnomes (since they built the Erebonia shrines and the School Dungeon facility) and the other Seirei will show up in future chapters, or whether all of the Seirei were confined to Erebonia and we'll meet the 7 Seirei and the 7 Magic Mecha Knights in the SC Erebonia game.
2. The System story. I'm sure it'll eventually come down to what happened with the two Giant Gods and their battle from 1200 years ago that ended up with a system in place of 7 Magic Mecha. We've seen 3 so far, so I'm sure the other 4 will show up in Erebonia SC. The main question being whether we get a team of Mecha Knights to fight as a Mecha party, or it's just Rean again vs. everyone. That being said, I really hope they improve the mech battle system for the SC game. It's so boring; give it some real depth like the main battle system. Having multiple mech party members could be a good start.
3. The Political story. Olivert & the Bracer guild vs. Osborn & the Iron Children. It's happening for sure in the SC Erebonia game. Will be interesting to fight against Claire, Lector, Rufus and crew since we've gotten to know them more than we usually do with antagonists and they've been humanized quite a bit. Can definitely see some great drama setups between character showdowns, like Sara v Claire.
4. The Oroboro Genei Keikaku coming to fruitation and the Holy Church fighting against them. Hopefully with any luck, the Illusionary Plan will finally come to fruitation in the Erebonia SC story. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be an Oroboro plan that stretches across the entire Kiseki series. I think it was just supposed to be a Crossbell/Erebonia thing since the two stories are connected, but Falcom probably didn't play on it taking 7-8 years to get through the Crossbell + Erebonia story. So hopefully in Erebonia SC we see the final endgame to this current Plan of theirs, and we see some cool Church dudes joining in on the fight against it. Meanwhile Osborn is fighting both Oro & Church and the Bracers are fighting Osborn & Oro. All the faction oppositions have potential to be really exciting.
Oh and we're definitely going to get the Iron Maiden backstory and her involvement in the Erebonia SC game.
5. Other stuff that was setup and probably is gonna happen is Zephyr apparently...trying to raise Zombie Commander? It sounds really stupid, but the Commander guy for Zephyr definitely died and that comment about how Zephyr's working on bringing him back just sounds...zombie dumb. Now that Fi is with Sarah & Duvall doing Bracer work, I'm guessing they'll run across this and have to deal with it.
6. Speaking of that, with the Bracer guild getting active again in Erebonia and ALL of the constant pushing for Rean to become a Bracer, I wouldn't be surprised if you're working with the Bracers + Olivert for a lot of Erebonia SC and I could see Rean joining the Bracers at the end of the SC story.
7. Also another reason it's super obvious there's an SC Erebonia story is that Rean and friends only went through year 1 of 2 at their school in Sen 1+2. Going into Sen and how almost an entire year took place in Sen 1, I assumed Sen 2 would be their 2nd year of school, ending with graduation. But yeah, Erebonia SC is totally going to end with the class graduating and going their separate ways. Although to be fair, I was kind of confused myself at the end of Sen II because everyone is going their separate ways...but they only did 1 year of school as first years and the school had 2nd years. Maybe 2nd year is optional at the Academy? Idk. But I'm pretty sure if/when Rean and friends graduate there will be a big graduation cutscene and that didn't happen yet, so I think that'll be the end of SC story.
8. Hopefully we get some cameos in the Erebonia SC story. Timeline-wise we're past Zero/Ao, so anyone from Sora/Crossbell should be possible to show up. I'd definitely like to see Randy meet Fi and get involved in the Zephyr stuff, especially if Shirley gets involved as well since she's with Oro now and has connections to Zephyr from her Red Constellation days. Arios stuff with Rean could be interesting since they come from the same sword school. Also Rean's sensei guy is totally going to show up in the Erebonia SC story since he's been mentioned a million times as a badass swordsman. Estelle & Joshua would be nice just to have along, and if Kevin or Wadji cameo for any of the Church vs Oro stuff that'd be neat.
9. Crossbell...Idk, at this point I'm not really sure we need to see any more Crossbell. Maybe the Erebonia SC story will spill into Crossbell and we'll see Lloyd and crew taking the city back throughout the whole Erebonia tale, but I could definitely see it just be an event that happens towards the end of Erebonia SC, like if Osborn, Rufus gets taken down and it cuts to Crossbell where they seize the chance and take the city back. Basically like the Gaiden chapter in Sen II. Heck, the Crossbell stuff with Lloyd is perfect for a 3rd type game just telling it through a couple of flashbacks.
10. Aaaand, the magic creature of Erebonia. Maybe two of them? IIRC isn't there supposed to be one for each Megami Treasure? And we're gonna get the story of the two megami treasures in Erebonia in the SC story, which will certainly play into the Genei Keikaku & Magic Mecha Knight System & Seirei in some way.
So yeah, that's a lot of stuff setup for the SC Erebonia story, and it's almost all interesting stuff. If they could fit all of that (and exploring Western Erebonia's map) into a single 60-80 hour long Sen III, it'd probably be the exciting Kiseki game to date. But let's be real, after Sen I+II, there's no way they're going to fit all of that into one game. It's going to be Sen III+IV. Hopefully they'll be good with at least balancing the interesting stuff in each game so it's not just a whole bunch more of setup and exploring and learning about the seirei and mecha knight system in Sen III while occasionally fighting Osborn's group, and then everything coming to an exciting finale in Sen IV. Just because after two 70 hour games already, I want the next game to start having the answers and cool exciting events already. I don't want to have to wait until another year after whenever Sen III comes out to get to the really good stuff.
I mean Sen 1+2 is an FC game through and through. It's exactly like Sora FC & Zero. Only it took 2 games and twice the game length to accomplish the same amount. But yes, Sen does have like twice the characters, especially if you count all the NPCs and their stories (Sen has way too many NPCs and the NPC dialogue for EVERYONE is updated far too frequently; like it's cool, but it's overkill).
Anyhow, I liked the true end, it was nice and the goodbyes and everything was a nice way to end the first half Erebonia story. Pretty satisfying and most of the issues I have with the plots and character developments is because there's still 50% of Erebonia story with this same cast left to tell. See, one of the main reasons I had issues with Sen II was I thought Sen II was supposed to be the conclusion to most of these character's stories; and it did a pretty weak job in that aspect.
So basically Sen 3 (and probably 4, which is going to be pretty annoying because Sen III will start getting real good and exciting and then just end like Sen I probably :| Also if you have to spend 20 hours gathering together all of the cast to re-introduce them two more times in Sen 3 & Sen 4, it's gonna get pretty tiresome so I hope they avoid that if they end up going to Sen 4) is going to be:
1. The Seirei story. While I'm not really big on Kiseki diving into the Tales of Seirei mythology, it's pretty clear we'll actually meet the Seirei in the SC game. The only question I really have is whether the 7 seirei cover all of Zemuria and Erebonia SC story will just be about the Gnomes (since they built the Erebonia shrines and the School Dungeon facility) and the other Seirei will show up in future chapters, or whether all of the Seirei were confined to Erebonia and we'll meet the 7 Seirei and the 7 Magic Mecha Knights in the SC Erebonia game.
2. The System story. I'm sure it'll eventually come down to what happened with the two Giant Gods and their battle from 1200 years ago that ended up with a system in place of 7 Magic Mecha. We've seen 3 so far, so I'm sure the other 4 will show up in Erebonia SC. The main question being whether we get a team of Mecha Knights to fight as a Mecha party, or it's just Rean again vs. everyone. That being said, I really hope they improve the mech battle system for the SC game. It's so boring; give it some real depth like the main battle system. Having multiple mech party members could be a good start.
3. The Political story. Olivert & the Bracer guild vs. Osborn & the Iron Children. It's happening for sure in the SC Erebonia game. Will be interesting to fight against Claire, Lector, Rufus and crew since we've gotten to know them more than we usually do with antagonists and they've been humanized quite a bit. Can definitely see some great drama setups between character showdowns, like Sara v Claire.
4. The Oroboro Genei Keikaku coming to fruitation and the Holy Church fighting against them. Hopefully with any luck, the Illusionary Plan will finally come to fruitation in the Erebonia SC story. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be an Oroboro plan that stretches across the entire Kiseki series. I think it was just supposed to be a Crossbell/Erebonia thing since the two stories are connected, but Falcom probably didn't play on it taking 7-8 years to get through the Crossbell + Erebonia story. So hopefully in Erebonia SC we see the final endgame to this current Plan of theirs, and we see some cool Church dudes joining in on the fight against it. Meanwhile Osborn is fighting both Oro & Church and the Bracers are fighting Osborn & Oro. All the faction oppositions have potential to be really exciting.
Oh and we're definitely going to get the Iron Maiden backstory and her involvement in the Erebonia SC game.
5. Other stuff that was setup and probably is gonna happen is Zephyr apparently...trying to raise Zombie Commander? It sounds really stupid, but the Commander guy for Zephyr definitely died and that comment about how Zephyr's working on bringing him back just sounds...zombie dumb. Now that Fi is with Sarah & Duvall doing Bracer work, I'm guessing they'll run across this and have to deal with it.
6. Speaking of that, with the Bracer guild getting active again in Erebonia and ALL of the constant pushing for Rean to become a Bracer, I wouldn't be surprised if you're working with the Bracers + Olivert for a lot of Erebonia SC and I could see Rean joining the Bracers at the end of the SC story.
7. Also another reason it's super obvious there's an SC Erebonia story is that Rean and friends only went through year 1 of 2 at their school in Sen 1+2. Going into Sen and how almost an entire year took place in Sen 1, I assumed Sen 2 would be their 2nd year of school, ending with graduation. But yeah, Erebonia SC is totally going to end with the class graduating and going their separate ways. Although to be fair, I was kind of confused myself at the end of Sen II because everyone is going their separate ways...but they only did 1 year of school as first years and the school had 2nd years. Maybe 2nd year is optional at the Academy? Idk. But I'm pretty sure if/when Rean and friends graduate there will be a big graduation cutscene and that didn't happen yet, so I think that'll be the end of SC story.
8. Hopefully we get some cameos in the Erebonia SC story. Timeline-wise we're past Zero/Ao, so anyone from Sora/Crossbell should be possible to show up. I'd definitely like to see Randy meet Fi and get involved in the Zephyr stuff, especially if Shirley gets involved as well since she's with Oro now and has connections to Zephyr from her Red Constellation days. Arios stuff with Rean could be interesting since they come from the same sword school. Also Rean's sensei guy is totally going to show up in the Erebonia SC story since he's been mentioned a million times as a badass swordsman. Estelle & Joshua would be nice just to have along, and if Kevin or Wadji cameo for any of the Church vs Oro stuff that'd be neat.
9. Crossbell...Idk, at this point I'm not really sure we need to see any more Crossbell. Maybe the Erebonia SC story will spill into Crossbell and we'll see Lloyd and crew taking the city back throughout the whole Erebonia tale, but I could definitely see it just be an event that happens towards the end of Erebonia SC, like if Osborn, Rufus gets taken down and it cuts to Crossbell where they seize the chance and take the city back. Basically like the Gaiden chapter in Sen II. Heck, the Crossbell stuff with Lloyd is perfect for a 3rd type game just telling it through a couple of flashbacks.
10. Aaaand, the magic creature of Erebonia. Maybe two of them? IIRC isn't there supposed to be one for each Megami Treasure? And we're gonna get the story of the two megami treasures in Erebonia in the SC story, which will certainly play into the Genei Keikaku & Magic Mecha Knight System & Seirei in some way.
So yeah, that's a lot of stuff setup for the SC Erebonia story, and it's almost all interesting stuff. If they could fit all of that (and exploring Western Erebonia's map) into a single 60-80 hour long Sen III, it'd probably be the exciting Kiseki game to date. But let's be real, after Sen I+II, there's no way they're going to fit all of that into one game. It's going to be Sen III+IV. Hopefully they'll be good with at least balancing the interesting stuff in each game so it's not just a whole bunch more of setup and exploring and learning about the seirei and mecha knight system in Sen III while occasionally fighting Osborn's group, and then everything coming to an exciting finale in Sen IV. Just because after two 70 hour games already, I want the next game to start having the answers and cool exciting events already. I don't want to have to wait until another year after whenever Sen III comes out to get to the really good stuff.
Haha, I was pretty much writing the same list at the same time
I...don't think going to Calvard works. Almost everything is set up, just like a book to take place in the Erebonia SC story. And c'mon Sen IV, while annoying for the players, is something Falcom would be happy with because they get to sell you the game twice with one game worth of assets, which is what they've been doing since Sora. If Sen III is an all new map with Western Erebonia and all new assets, especially with improved graphics like they've mentioned, they're gonna want to get some mileage out of that and two games a year apart makes financial sense. It also gives them 140 hours to fit all the story stuff in that they've pushed back to Erebonia SC, so they can go at the normal slow Kiseki pace we're all used to at this point. While I'd love to have a breakneck exciting Kiseki game, it's never gonna happen.
Plus, honestly, what's even interesting about Calvard at this point besides Tsao and the mafia? I'm not looking forward to getting to Calvard and starting all over with another brand new cast who doesn't know anything about anything and we spend a 70 hour game just setting things up again. A 3rd type setup game that builds up excitement for Calvard before we go to Calvard would actually be helpful imo.
I...don't think going to Calvard works. Almost everything is set up, just like a book to take place in the Erebonia SC story. And c'mon Sen IV, while annoying for the players, is something Falcom would be happy with because they get to sell you the game twice with one game worth of assets, which is what they've been doing since Sora. If Sen III is an all new map with Western Erebonia and all new assets, especially with improved graphics like they've mentioned, they're gonna want to get some mileage out of that and two games a year apart makes financial sense. It also gives them 140 hours to fit all the story stuff in that they've pushed back to Erebonia SC, so they can go at the normal slow Kiseki pace we're all used to at this point. While I'd love to have a breakneck exciting Kiseki game, it's never gonna happen.
Plus, honestly, what's even interesting about Calvard at this point besides Tsao and the mafia? I'm not looking forward to getting to Calvard and starting all over with another brand new cast who doesn't know anything about anything and we spend a 70 hour game just setting things up again. A 3rd type setup game that builds up excitement for Calvard before we go to Calvard would actually be helpful imo.
From the (few) Xseed games I've played that have dubs, they seem to have a pretty good track record. The dub for Fragile Dreams was good, Trails of Cold Steel was great, and The Last Story was fantastic.
But Trails of Cold Steel starts out a little shaky in terms of dub quality, but gets really really good past the prologue.
Shouta
Member
I think you'd need to define what the Kiseki formula is for you and for Bebpo on that front, lol.
Anyway, I really enjoy Sen I and II for the micro stuff and the progression they made throughout the game on that. It's something they haven't done in a manner that hasn't really satisfied me up until this point. The Liberal and Crossbell games have quest chains where stuff happens and it picks up later on in a continuation but Sen gives you everything in between as well if you look at it. That really gives me a sense that the world is alive as I go through the game kind of like how Radiata Stories did it with NPC routines but this is done with some narrative/story. It also, despite Rean being the MC and how you see things, gives you the sense that the story is really about Class VII and all of Thors in the end.
I guess my enjoyment of these two games also stems from my general expectations. I really didn't think they'd answer the big questions yet because there was stuff they needed to go through. It wasn't until that discovery in the old school house that I really had a question of mine answered. That kept me sated so I enjoyed the ride and got more stuff to look forward to, lol.
I really hope Sen III covers the remaining Erebonia content and fills in the blanks that are left between games.
Just a tiny nitpick on my part, don't mind me much, especially since it's not really relevant to the debate.
But the dub for The Last Story wasn't XSeed's doing. Nintendo did it for the European release several months before Xseed got in charge of the North American release.
Opened up the Kiseki 10th Anniversary Book that I'd picked up in Japan but was waiting until after Sen II because spoilerz.
Wow, the book is amazingly detailed. Like it's up there with Xenogears Perfect Works at how well organized it is for all the information in the entire series to date. World timelines, local timelines, every locale, every organization setup, even down to the newspaper media companies. Helped remind me of a couple of items and even learned something new (Sen II spoiler)
Having finally caught up on the series (which is a weird feeling in itself after so many years. I made this thread when I was finishing Sora SC a little over 2 years ago), it was nice to read a giant wiki/database type book that pulls it all together. Plus it has like a ridiculous amount of art from the whole series. Very cool stuff. Probably my favorite databook/artbook in a long time for a series. Hope they do another one for the 20th anniversary!
For me the Kiseki formula is a slow crawl rpg with terrible repetitive pacing but wonderfully fleshed out worlds and NPCs as well as great characters, stories, battle systems and music.
It's a formula where the plot moves a few feet and then all momentum stops dead in its tracks while the MC party does errands for people and the player learns more about the world/npcs. Then the plot moves a little bit, and then the plot stops dead in its tracks again, and this cycle repeats for the entire Kiseki formula game until the final chapter where the game drops sidequests altogether (outside maybe some monster hunts) and just plays like a traditional exciting rpg for the last 10-30 hours of each game with constant plot music and payoff delivering that all the slow paced stuff to that point setup.
Pretty sure that formula, which is what defines Kiseki, for better or worse is not going to change. As shown by The 3rd, and the final chapters in Kiseki games, which are the best paced stuff in the series, the only way for Kiseki to have good pacing in a game from start to finish is to essentially drop sidequests, and sidequests are the bread and butter of the series, so that's not gonna happen outside spinoff dungeon crawler episodes.
I like Ao's pacing the best of the traditional formula because it's basically two Kiseki climaxes in one shell, so it follows the formula of build up and then has it's final chapter of excitement midway through the game, then it slows a bit and builds up again even more excitingly and then has another final chapter of excitement.
You know, a lot of my expectations issues going into Sen II comes from when people say "yeah it doesn't have the answers, or big answers; those are saved for Sen III". To me that gives the idea that Sen II still has the major storylines of Erebonia and it's just there are mysteries left for the Franchise that either Sen III or a 3rd type game can fill in the answers.
That's very different from Sen II doesn't have the "story" of Erebonia. That the major SC-type story doesn't really start yet in the game. Big difference between something not having answers and not having the story imo. I can live with questions and mysteries, that's pretty standard for the Kiseki series to keep stuff exciting, but if I play a 2nd game after finishing a 70 hour prior one, without much story, I want the 2nd game to have the real main story of Erebonia and it's mysteries & politics, but Sen II is just the prologue to that...
I was thinking about it, and if Sen ends up going to Sen IV because going full 3d has slowed down everything, I'd figure Calvard would be 4 games long as well since you hardly see them go back and downscale, especially with climbing budgets. So then you go to Church land for 4 games and we're at an 18 rpg-length series and currently about halfway, which seems pretty plausible for me.
Wow, the book is amazingly detailed. Like it's up there with Xenogears Perfect Works at how well organized it is for all the information in the entire series to date. World timelines, local timelines, every locale, every organization setup, even down to the newspaper media companies. Helped remind me of a couple of items and even learned something new (Sen II spoiler)
How Osborn took over the Black Factory from Oroborous, which happened during his dealings with them in the war ten years prior.
Having finally caught up on the series (which is a weird feeling in itself after so many years. I made this thread when I was finishing Sora SC a little over 2 years ago), it was nice to read a giant wiki/database type book that pulls it all together. Plus it has like a ridiculous amount of art from the whole series. Very cool stuff. Probably my favorite databook/artbook in a long time for a series. Hope they do another one for the 20th anniversary!
For me the Kiseki formula is a slow crawl rpg with terrible repetitive pacing but wonderfully fleshed out worlds and NPCs as well as great characters, stories, battle systems and music.
It's a formula where the plot moves a few feet and then all momentum stops dead in its tracks while the MC party does errands for people and the player learns more about the world/npcs. Then the plot moves a little bit, and then the plot stops dead in its tracks again, and this cycle repeats for the entire Kiseki formula game until the final chapter where the game drops sidequests altogether (outside maybe some monster hunts) and just plays like a traditional exciting rpg for the last 10-30 hours of each game with constant plot music and payoff delivering that all the slow paced stuff to that point setup.
Pretty sure that formula, which is what defines Kiseki, for better or worse is not going to change. As shown by The 3rd, and the final chapters in Kiseki games, which are the best paced stuff in the series, the only way for Kiseki to have good pacing in a game from start to finish is to essentially drop sidequests, and sidequests are the bread and butter of the series, so that's not gonna happen outside spinoff dungeon crawler episodes.
I like Ao's pacing the best of the traditional formula because it's basically two Kiseki climaxes in one shell, so it follows the formula of build up and then has it's final chapter of excitement midway through the game, then it slows a bit and builds up again even more excitingly and then has another final chapter of excitement.
You know, a lot of my expectations issues going into Sen II comes from when people say "yeah it doesn't have the answers, or big answers; those are saved for Sen III". To me that gives the idea that Sen II still has the major storylines of Erebonia and it's just there are mysteries left for the Franchise that either Sen III or a 3rd type game can fill in the answers.
That's very different from Sen II doesn't have the "story" of Erebonia. That the major SC-type story doesn't really start yet in the game. Big difference between something not having answers and not having the story imo. I can live with questions and mysteries, that's pretty standard for the Kiseki series to keep stuff exciting, but if I play a 2nd game after finishing a 70 hour prior one, without much story, I want the 2nd game to have the real main story of Erebonia and it's mysteries & politics, but Sen II is just the prologue to that...
I was thinking about it, and if Sen ends up going to Sen IV because going full 3d has slowed down everything, I'd figure Calvard would be 4 games long as well since you hardly see them go back and downscale, especially with climbing budgets. So then you go to Church land for 4 games and we're at an 18 rpg-length series and currently about halfway, which seems pretty plausible for me.
Oh, I never knew that. Good to know, I'll keep that in mind.
encephalon
Member
I've been listening to the games' soundtracks while researching something recently, and while everything seems to sound muddled in Zero Evo, which is disappointing, Ao Evo sounds ... pretty good? Edit: Except for the Descent of God's Machine, which sounds like someone is blowing into the mic? lol During the actual gameplay, I guess it could be written off as "wind" ...
I have a question about Ao Evo. I only played a little bit of Zero Evo, but I found the randomly unvoiced lines in the middle of a whole bunch of voiced dialogue and really inconsistent texture qualities to be jarring in Zero. Is Ao the same?
Moreover, are the PS3 version of FC and SC "clear" or am I better off playing the PSP set I own?
I wonder when we'll hear about the next Kiseki game ... I'd imagine they'll have one release in 2017.
I have a question about Ao Evo. I only played a little bit of Zero Evo, but I found the randomly unvoiced lines in the middle of a whole bunch of voiced dialogue and really inconsistent texture qualities to be jarring in Zero. Is Ao the same?
Moreover, are the PS3 version of FC and SC "clear" or am I better off playing the PSP set I own?
I wonder when we'll hear about the next Kiseki game ... I'd imagine they'll have one release in 2017.
clay_ghost
Member
I am on Cold Steel I Chapter 6 and so far this is the worst trails game that i have played. It feels like noting really happens , the characters are okay but i dont like the bonding system (maybe i should have done the save and reload thing as i feel that i missed out on a lot of characters development/ interaction ) . Maybe part of the reason is i have played Zero and Ao before this so i came in knowing some of the event that will unfold .Chapter 6 seems to be kciking things into higher gear so i hope my impression of this game can improve.
Its still a good game and
I just feel like i don't connect to most of the cast in this game and am not as invested in their fates unlike the other trails game cast.
Oh , the music is a step down too :|
Its still a good game and
i enjoyed Prince Olivert appearance , he is really lovable and surprising serious for most of the time .
Oh , the music is a step down too :|
There's hardly anything to say about The 3rd Evo that hasn't been said about the previous two Evo games: the visuals are (too) bright, the music is different, my first turn in a battle had a Zero Craft bonus, and Kevin's VA is, once again, top notch. I found the VA for Ein -- Tomoko Naka -- not intense, not strict enough; the fact that she also voiced Mao (from the Maple Leaf Inn in Elmo) and ran into her during SC Evo last night doesn't exactly help.
Did a whole bunch of Trails SC playing this weekend... played from midway through Ch 5 all the way to the start of Ch 8. Oh man... Ch 6 had some absolutely amazing story reveals, I was getting a bit choked up at it. Really exciting, and all the airship-related cinematics reminded me vaguely of Skies of Arcadia.
But then Ch 7 slows the pacing to a crawl again...
but overall, a lame, filler chapter. Currently a little over 60 hours. Hopefully I'll get to finish up this weekend...
Overall I enjoy SC a lot more than FC, the stakes are a lot higher and you really grow attached to the characters and the land of Liberl. This is the game series where the NPCs elicit more personality than a lot of other games' main characters.
But then Ch 7 slows the pacing to a crawl again...
4 long and grueling palette swapped dungeons with palette swapped monsters. 2 of which are extremely maze-like, and then one that is nothing more than a straight line. The boss fights were pretty cool in how tough they were, especially Blueblanc...
Overall I enjoy SC a lot more than FC, the stakes are a lot higher and you really grow attached to the characters and the land of Liberl. This is the game series where the NPCs elicit more personality than a lot of other games' main characters.
encephalon
Member
3rd really has the best general battle music of the original trilogy. It's too bad SC's is so awful.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I kind of like Streptioso Fight despite it being so weird.
EDIT: The remixes actually sound good here. wtf happened with SC EVO?
It makes me feel less like I'm getting pumped to fight monsters and more like I'm riding a yacht around the Carribean. Never quite understood the love affair with jazz/elevator/porn music that was popular in Japanese games in the late 90's - early 2000's. (see also: Breath of Fire 3, Virtua Cop, Neo Turf Masters)
It has the best battle music and the best ___ music and the best everything~
SatelliteOfLove
Member
But some were real goooooood at it.
You look at it like I do J-Pop in Persona 4. Hate the genre, but great composers make it work with great work.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Makin my hype skyrocket Aeana pls stop.
Trying to hold on for the eng pc version over here ;-;
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Pfft. Strepitosot FIght being the weakest in the trilogy doesn't mean it's awful in and out of context. Track develops much better than, well I don't know, how about We're Lions, You're Dinner!! from Legend of Heroes III: White Witch. Funky percussion helps out.
I'm sorry for getting pissed off at you saying this in the other thread. I'd be just as put-off by a Japanese game music score attempting to do contemporary country pop-rock with song melodies and slide guitar everywhere. That doesn't mean I wouldn't give it a chance, but it's difficult to make some genres/styles appeal when so much of the work produced for them disappoints. A Cat Relaxing in the Sun, and fiddle jigs, don't count as they're usually fun and innocent.
Jazz music for fighting is awesome, I won't accept any other opinions! >:-|
Reminds me of the heathens that dislike the MvC2 OST...
Reminds me of the heathens that dislike the MvC2 OST...
That's OK (btw I love you as a poster, you've got tons of insightful knowledge about the Japanese PC scene), my tastes in music are a tad unconventional for someone my age/demographic so I hear it a lot. This is the song I've been listening to all day for instance.
And yes I did like Xeno X's soundtrack
I think overall my biggest issue with the Trails games is I'm a huge fan of the Ys soundtracks so the change in genre threw me off. But the actual games themselves... oh damn. I think SC was retroactively my favorite game of 2015.
That's OK (btw I love you as a poster, you've got tons of insightful knowledge about the Japanese PC scene), my tastes in music are a tad unconventional for someone my age/demographic so I hear it a lot. This is the song I've been listening to all day for instance.
And yes I did like Xeno X's soundtrack
I think overall my biggest issue with the Trails games is I'm a huge fan of the Ys soundtracks so the change in genre threw me off. But the actual games themselves... oh damn. I think SC was retroactively my favorite game of 2015.
The music gets way better, don't worry. I felt the same way coming from Ys. 3rd ost is good, Zero/Ao is godly, Sen I is good, Sen II is great.
Sigh. I listened to the 3rd Evo tracks. The extra instruments they added don't fit Determination of Fight for me at all.
You're making me super sad here.
With that said, the dreamy tone of 3rd's music makes perfect sense given the context of the game.
You're making me super sad here.
With that said, the dreamy tone of 3rd's music makes perfect sense given the context of the game.
Dragon1893
Member
I need to find more time to dedicate to Cold Steel, at this rate I'm not finishing the game this year.
encephalon
Member
Is this a coincidence or is it an allusion among Kiseki's own Gnostic references (first five seconds)?
Maybe it's just that the sound quality I'm getting out of these headphones is fucked and it isn't the cacophony it sounds like to me, but at least it's not as bad as the updated Black Orbment in the FC Evo soundtrack.
Maybe it's just that the sound quality I'm getting out of these headphones is fucked and it isn't the cacophony it sounds like to me, but at least it's not as bad as the updated Black Orbment in the FC Evo soundtrack.
I listened to the Sen II ost over the last few days and damn, that is a fine soundtrack. I like some tracks, like the battle music better in Ao, but Sen II is either as good overall of soundtrack as Ao or maybe slightly better.
My biggest complaint against it, is that the soundtrack is too good for the game. Like if you listen to the soundtrack there's all this epic dramatic music for a hugely powerful story, but the game's story...isn't.
Hopefully this bolds well for Sen III's ost though!
My biggest complaint against it, is that the soundtrack is too good for the game. Like if you listen to the soundtrack there's all this epic dramatic music for a hugely powerful story, but the game's story...isn't.
Hopefully this bolds well for Sen III's ost though!
Squall ASF
Member
What's the rough time frame for beating Cold Steel 2? It's a bummer it hits the same month as FFXV. I need to figure out if I can finish it in time or if I should hold off playing it until after FF. All other games will be dead to me when that hits, been waiting ten damn years for it after all ;p
It's slightly shorter than the first game. And although I've finished the game twice already, I'm still more psyched for Cold Steel 2 than Final Fantasy XV myself.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I've been talking about this with my friends and we seem to have different interpretations [unimportant Sky FC background question]:
Is Cassius one of four S-rank Bracers, one of four Divine Blades, or both?
Barrylocke
Member
I always interpreted Divine Blade to be his personal title/nickname, kind of like how Scherazard is the Silver Streak and Agate is the Heavy Blade.
The music in persona kind of has a so bad it's good thing going on, can't really imagine the games without it
Both, though I'm not sure about your number of Divine Blades. Don't remember if it has ever been mentioned how many there are. It's an honorary name given to someone who masters one of the Eight Leaves school's forms or whatever
This. Indeed, we don't know how many
Divine Blades
only two