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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Alisa starts with trope, but she gets better later on. Falcom really dropped the ball with that opening. It leaves a bad first impression on the character and the game while in fact the rest of the game doesn't look like that and Alisa stopped being pretentious pretty quick.

Yeah she's gotten a lot better as I've progressed but that first impression is hard to shake.

#Laura4Life
#SparringPartners
#FindYourself
 

ZoronMaro

Member
As long as people are hating on Kevin I'll ask a question about the 3rd that's been on my mind. Namely is Kevin's depiction in the 3rd the same as the one in SC? Thing is I hated Kevin, even though I liked pretty much all the other characters so Kevin stuck out like a huge sore thumb. I mean there's the obfuscating stupidity trope someone mentioned, but Kevin just felt so inconsistent and awkward as a character and even if that was the point and part of his "act" but I still really didn't like it so I hope at least when he's interacting with more church people he is more tolerable. At the very least please tell me he eases up on talking up women in the most awkward way (the dude hits on girls more than Olivier, and he's not half as suave).
 

preta

Member
Yeah she's gotten a lot better as I've progressed but that first impression is hard to shake.

#Laura4Life
#SparringPartners
#FindYourself

Team Laura represent!

By the way, while you won't need knowledge of them for Cold Steel 1 (though it helps a lot in some parts) you should probably play the Trails in the Sky games before playing Cold Steel 2. Ideally, I'd suggest you play them before Cold Steel 1 but I doubt you want to stop and go back now. Although stopping to play them between CS1 and CS2 is a problem in itself considering the way CS1 ends and how it'll have you wanting to start CS2 immediately...
 

Gu4n

Member
As long as people are hating on Kevin I'll ask a question about the 3rd that's been on my mind. Namely is Kevin's depiction in the 3rd the same as the one in SC?
No, and that is exactly what makes him such an interesting character. What you see 99% of the time in SC is his ' persona'; he distanced himself from his dark past by acting aloof, foolish and hitting on everyone to draw away the attention from the 'real' him. In The 3rd, he gets caught up in a situation in which he is forced the face the lies he's been telling both to himself and others. He dragged a lot of people into the mess he's created and hurt those close to him the hardest. This also sets him apart from the other characters: where Estelle (and Lloyd) gradually grow into a better, stronger person throughout the games and eventually flourishing as heroes, Kevin's story is one of redemption, suffering and pain.

The 3rd is, if you will, is essentially a deconstruction of the character Kevin Graham and a story which made him my favourite protagonist in the series thus far.
 

ZoronMaro

Member
No, and that is exactly what makes him such an interesting character. What you see 99% of the time in SC is his ' persona'; he distanced himself from his dark past by acting aloof, foolish and hitting on everyone to draw away the attention from the 'real' him. In The 3rd, he gets caught up in a situation in which he is forced the face the lies he's been telling both to himself and others. He dragged a lot of people into the mess he's created and hurt those close to him the hardest. This also sets him apart from the other characters: where Estelle (and Lloyd) gradually grow into a better, stronger person throughout the games and eventually flourishing as heroes, Kevin's story is one of redemption, suffering and pain.

The 3rd is, if you will, is essentially a deconstruction of the character Kevin Graham and a story which made him my favourite protagonist in the series thus far.

So you're saying I'll definitely hate him at first, but (hopefully) the story will win me over? I was hoping at least around church people he would be less weird, but I guess not.

I'll have to lower my expectation of 3rd I think. I'm willing to be won over, but until Kevin stops being a dweeb I'm not excited to read his dialogue.
 

Gu4n

Member
So you're saying I'll definitely hate him at first, but (hopefully) the story will win me over? I was hoping at least around church people he would be less weird, but I guess not.
That's a way to put it if you rather have complex characters simplified. Ries, his childhood friend, doesn't put up with his nonsense and keeps him in check as much as possible.
 

Young Magus

Junior Member
Yo how does sen II run on the vita?
Asking because the first game froze on me during the final boss and I wanna know how performance is this time around.
 

Gu4n

Member
Yo how does sen II run on the vita?
Asking because the first game froze on me during the final boss and I wanna know how performance is this time around.
The game freezing and the performance on Vita are unrelated; I played through both games on Vita and the performance is fine. The big frame drop in CS2 is during one cut scene rather than in-game like it was in CS1.

Yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter for stuff like that, but it's not like Zero/Ao didn't expect knowledge of 3rd, which had a (mostly) different cast.

What bits of Ao are you referring to, if it's possible to tell me without spoiling CS2 at all? All I can think of at the moment is
Crossbell ultimately being liberated
.
Ao endgame spoiler:
They didn't re-design the post-time skip looks of the Crossbell cast for no reason; it was an indication that Sen III would make a similar leap and everything we've heard and seen so far confirms that.
 

preta

Member
The game freezing and the performance on Vita are unrelated; I played through both games on Vita and the performance is fine. The big frame drop in CS2 is during one cut scene rather than in-game like it was in CS1.


Ao endgame spoiler:
They didn't re-design the post-time skip looks of the Crossbell cast for no reason; it was an indication that Sen III would make a similar leap and everything we've heard and seen so far confirms that.

Other than that they might not want to redesign so much of the cast for one still image, I don't see how that's an indication that Sen III would do the same (though now that we have that picture of Rean, it does make sense). All it's saying is that the cast is a few years older when Crossbell is liberated, which makes sense. By the way, was it the civil war in Erebonia or Crossbell's occupation that lasted two years?

And my other, Ao-related musing, taken from the other thread, though it'll likely be disproved in CS2:

Is it possible that
the Gordius series is reverse-engineered from Ordine? We know at least Aion Type-Alpha is capable of housing a pilot and Crow is the leader of a group receiving support from Ouroboros... Was there any suggestion that the Gordius series was in development prior to the time period when Crow would have acquired Ordine? That would render this irrelevant.
 

Gu4n

Member
Other than that they might not want to redesign so much of the cast for one still image, I don't see how that's an indication that Sen III would do the same (though now that we have that picture of Rean, it does make sense). All it's saying is that the cast is a few years older when Crossbell is liberated, which makes sense. By the way, was it the civil war in Erebonia or Crossbell's occupation that lasted two years?

And my other, Ao-related musing, taken from the other thread:

Is it possible that
the Gordius series is reverse-engineered from Ordine? We know at least Aion Type-Alpha is capable of housing a pilot and Crow is the leader of a group receiving support from Ouroboros... Was there any suggestion that the Gordius series was in development prior to the time period when Crow would have acquired Ordine? That would render this irrelevant.
(Ao spoiler)
It's Crossbell's occupation that lasted two years
. Since Ao didn't give have any specifics and Sen III will be the last Erebonia game, it's evident that Sen III will deal with that.

Regarding your musing: no, but colour me surprised if it is. Having that said, (CS2 NG+ spoilers)
even if it's not based on Valimar nor Ordine, that doesn't rule out the possibility of the other four Divine Knights (not counting Testa-Rossa and the Lohengrin one).
 

preta

Member
Oh, CS2 doesn't deal with it? I guess I had misunderstood;
I thought the occupation started shortly after the pre-timeskip end of Ao, and thus would logically be dealt with during CS2 at some point.
 

Gu4n

Member
Oh, CS2 doesn't deal with it? I guess I had misunderstood;
I thought the occupation started shortly after the pre-timeskip end of Ao, and thus would logically be dealt with during CS2 at some point.
(Ao/Cold Steel 2 spoiler)
The liberation, I mean. CS2 has a little bit the occupation
.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Mind you, that's not the battle theme you'll hear the most in 3rd. In fact, you hear that one very rarely compared to others.



He's one of the series' Strega lovers! It's a running thing in the series. :D You can figure out Estelle and Kevin quickly, but you have to look to find the others.
Aw, man. I'm guessing it's like Fight Against the Assailant in that regard.
 
Almost done with SC Evo, so I watched Vol. I of the anime and was relatively impressed with it. Looking forward to beating SC and watching the second Vol. Though I have a feeling it won't cover the
floating city, Liber Ark
. I hope I'm wrong.
 

Gu4n

Member
Almost done with SC Evo, so I watched Vol. I of the anime and was relatively impressed with it. Looking forward to beating SC and watching the second Vol. Though I have a feeling it won't cover the
floating city, Liber Ark
. I hope I'm wrong.
You're not wrong. It spins off into its own thing I can't even remember.
 

Neoweee

Member
What mods/hacks exist for the PC Trails games?

I'm going to finally start FC, and so far I've found:

- Cheat Engine to speed up the game (1.3x or 1.5x, something like that).
- Evolution OST import (most tracks are considered improvements?)
- (optional) mod in Evolution Artwork update (controversial sidegrade?)

Anything else I should grab that found even CS1 to be borderline acceptable on speed/QoL issues?
 

Glix

Member
Finished SC!!! Clocked in at around 106hrs for the two games combined. I loved them very very much, more than I've loved a traditional RPG in a long time.

The script and the battle system were both fantastic.

I loved the pacing. I loved so much about the games.

Already started Cold Steel! So psyched.

Questions (do not read unless you have finished SC)

1.
Are there big differences if you bring the proper rivals to the fights on the pillar? (Schera for bell lady and Zane for Walter?) I didn't bring them.
2.
I played on Vita. I assume I am not going to be able to bring my save to The 3rd? Am I going to miss out on anything?

3.
Was the Loewe fight supposed to be 10000x times harder than the Prof fights. Because it was for me. Maybe I was just specced weird.

4.
My main party was basically Estelle Josh and Khole no matter what. Usually Olivier as my forth and Agate as the Josh stand in. Am I doing it wrong?

5.
Is Cold Steel the same way in terms of hidden quests? Talk to every npc after the story is moved forward?
 

Nyoro SF

Member
What mods/hacks exist for the PC Trails games?

I'm going to finally start FC, and so far I've found:

- Cheat Engine to speed up the game (1.3x or 1.5x, something like that).
- Evolution OST import (most tracks are considered improvements?)
- (optional) mod in Evolution Artwork update (controversial sidegrade?)

Anything else I should grab that found even CS1 to be borderline acceptable on speed/QoL issues?

In my opinion, the speedhack is all you need. It's essentially a "skip animation" button, but puts the game speed entirely under your control at all times. Very useful for things like elevators and such.

Evolution stuff is a downgrade, don't bother with it. One of the remixes ruins one of the signature songs of FC (Silver Will), and the butchering continues in SC with its horrific rendition of Fate of the Fairies.

Finished SC!!! Clocked in at around 106hrs for the two games combined. I loved them very very much, more than I've loved a traditional RPG in a long time.

The script and the battle system were both fantastic.

I loved the pacing. I loved so much about the games.

Already started Cold Steel! So psyched.

Questions (do not read unless you have finished SC)

1.
Are there big differences if you bring the proper rivals to the fights on the pillar? (Schera for bell lady and Zane for Walter?) I didn't bring them.
2.
I played on Vita. I assume I am not going to be able to bring my save to The 3rd? Am I going to miss out on anything?

3.
Was the Loewe fight supposed to be 10000x times harder than the Prof fights. Because it was for me. Maybe I was just specced weird.

4.
My main party was basically Estelle Josh and Khole no matter what. Usually Olivier as my forth and Agate as the Josh stand in. Am I doing it wrong?

5.
Is Cold Steel the same way in terms of hidden quests? Talk to every npc after the story is moved forward?

Answers! (SC Spoilers)
1. There are big differences for a few fights and not so big with the others. I guess it depends on how much you value the conversations. For instance bringing Tita to the Renne fight doesn't result in anything special, Olivier and Bleublanc only get a few extra lines. However the Zane and Walter one is a huge addition with extra cutscene extension. Schera and Luciola get a great scene too. Bringing people to the Loewe fight will get unique dialogue for each person, and bringing Olivier and Mueller to Loewe will get a nice little nod to Cold Steel, for example.
2. Unfortunately you will not be able to bring your save. However if you're worried about missing the bonuses, someone in the thread will give you their save for sure, so just ask away.
3. I didn't find the fight that hard. Some people did. Loewe is susceptible to Clock Down and his clones hit for fixed damage so that alone made the fight a lot easier, in my opinion. I had a way harder time fighting any enemy that you couldn't use Clock Down on.
4. That was close to my party. You were fine. I had Tita in my 4th slot. She was mostly dead weight.
5. Yes.
 
Finished SC!!! Clocked in at around 106hrs for the two games combined. I loved them very very much, more than I've loved a traditional RPG in a long time.

The script and the battle system were both fantastic.

I loved the pacing. I loved so much about the games.

Already started Cold Steel! So psyched.

Questions (do not read unless you have finished SC)

1.
Are there big differences if you bring the proper rivals to the fights on the pillar? (Schera for bell lady and Zane for Walter?) I didn't bring them.
2.
I played on Vita. I assume I am not going to be able to bring my save to The 3rd? Am I going to miss out on anything?

3.
Was the Loewe fight supposed to be 10000x times harder than the Prof fights. Because it was for me. Maybe I was just specced weird.

4.
My main party was basically Estelle Josh and Khole no matter what. Usually Olivier as my forth and Agate as the Josh stand in. Am I doing it wrong?

5.
Is Cold Steel the same way in terms of hidden quests? Talk to every npc after the story is moved forward?

To your first question, yes.
The pre-fight dialogue is very different, and you get entirely different cutscenes after each fight. I ended up watching those scenes on youtube later, but I always feel like searching for Trails series stuff on yt and google to be a minefield of spoilers. Be careful!
 

Psxphile

Member
What mods/hacks exist for the PC Trails games?

I'm going to finally start FC, and so far I've found:

- Cheat Engine to speed up the game (1.3x or 1.5x, something like that).
- Evolution OST import (most tracks are considered improvements?)
- (optional) mod in Evolution Artwork update (controversial sidegrade?)


Anything else I should grab that found even CS1 to be borderline acceptable on speed/QoL issues?

I'll be interesting to playthrough FC again with these changes, if nothing else.

Sometimes eating ramen that tastes bad... can be really fun too.
 
What mods/hacks exist for the PC Trails games?

I'm going to finally start FC, and so far I've found:

- Cheat Engine to speed up the game (1.3x or 1.5x, something like that).
- Evolution OST import (most tracks are considered improvements?)
- (optional) mod in Evolution Artwork update (controversial sidegrade?)

Anything else I should grab that found even CS1 to be borderline acceptable on speed/QoL issues?

Don't do the Evolution stuff. The soundtrack is a significant downgrade from the originals.
 

Neoweee

Member
Evolution stuff is a downgrade, don't bother with it. One of the remixes ruins one of the signature songs of FC (Silver Will), and the butchering continues in SC with its horrific rendition of Fate of the Fairies.

You can do a song-by-song replacement if you want, though. Each song is a separate OGG file, so you can do any combination of OG/Evo/Arrange versions of the songs.
 

zakujanai

Member
The more I play these games, the more I'm convinced this is really all Olivert's story. He's the one who ties the games together and the driving force behind almost everything that's happening (on the side of good).

Obviously this is so ridiculous generalisation for so many games covering such a vast world but that's just how it feels to me. Haven't played CS2 or Crossbell though so I may be overestimating his importance there.
 

perorist

Unconfirmed Member
You can do a song-by-song replacement if you want, though. Each song is a separate OGG file, so you can do any combination of OG/Evo/Arrange versions of the songs.
Just stick with the originals to save yourself the trouble. Personally I found the evo soundtrack about the same with the exception of two tracks in SC evo that were straight up grating to listen to.

I like the Evo portraits and would recommend them if the mod also includes the newly drawn CGs for many of the important scenes. Otherwise it's up to your taste.
 

Glix

Member
The more I play these games, the more I'm convinced this is really all Olivert's story. He's
the one who ties the games together and the driving force behind almost everything that's happening (on the side of good).

Obviously this is so ridiculous generalisation for so many games covering such a vast world but that's just how it feels to me. Haven't played CS2 or Crossbell though so I may be overestimating
his
importance there.

He's
my favorite character so far, so I'm cool with that. You may want to throw some spoilertags up.
 

Gu4n

Member
The more I play these games, the more I'm convinced this is really all Olivert's story. He's the one who ties the games together and the driving force behind almost everything that's happening (on the side of good).

Obviously this is so ridiculous generalisation for so many games covering such a vast world but that's just how it feels to me. Haven't played CS2 or Crossbell though so I may be overestimating his importance there.
Hardly. What he learnt in SC he put in practice in Cold Steel -- that's it.

There are a number of characters with a far, far greater influence than him, such as Cassius Bright, Chancellor Osborne, Ein Selnert and of course the Grandmaster.
 

Neoweee

Member
Definitely enjoying FC more than my attempt with the PSP version. ~1.7x Speed Hack it is.

There's no way to disable the text-blurb-blurb-blurb noise, or to make the text speed instant, is there? Having to press the text button twice is something I've always found maddening, and something that is (mostly) addressed by CS.
 

zakujanai

Member
Hardly. What he learnt in SC he put in practice in Cold Steel -- that's it.

There are a number of characters with a far, far greater influence than him, such as Cassius Bright, Chancellor Osborne, Ein Selnert and of course the Grandmaster.

Maybe I just see it that way because I want it to be his story then. The third of those people set some alarm bells ringing in my head, as far as I know at this point they died in the Carnelia books, now I'm going to trying to second guess the significance they have.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Definitely enjoying FC more than my attempt with the PSP version. ~1.7x Speed Hack it is.

There's no way to disable the text-blurb-blurb-blurb noise, or to make the text speed instant, is there? Having to press the text button twice is something I've always found maddening, and something that is (mostly) addressed by CS.

I believe tapping the ESC key auto-completes a text speech bubble.

By the way I love text noises in games, so you are now my mortal enemy (skulks)
 

Neoweee

Member
I believe tapping the ESC key auto-completes a text speech bubble.

By the way I love text noises in games, so you are now my mortal enemy (skulks)

I'm playing on a controller. I know you can auto-complete (the text button does that), but the overwhelming majority of RPGs have instant text speed nowadays. Even Atlus' Persona team made the switch with the P3/P4 ports, which long resisted. CS1 allows has it like 2/3rds of the time, but sometimes text crawls, and I was never able to discern why.
 
Maybe I just see it that way because I want it to be his story then. The third of those people set some alarm bells ringing in my head, as far as I know at this point they died in the Carnelia books, now I'm going to trying to second guess the significance they have.

Spoiler of a minor conversation that happened during the school festival in CS:
Considering that Micht is actually alive in Trista pawn shop. Assuming that Ein is just as well is a safe bet, I feel.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
I'm playing on a controller. I know you can auto-complete (the text button does that), but the overwhelming majority of RPGs have instant text speed nowadays. Even Atlus' Persona team made the switch with the P3/P4 ports, which long resisted. CS1 allows has it like 2/3rds of the time, but sometimes text crawls, and I was never able to discern why.

I suppose for Sky games it can be chalked up to the fact that the games are older PC/PSP games that didn't think to include the feature.

I agree that anyone should be able to set the text speed as fast as they want in an RPG, including Instant Display. I am a very fast reader, and it bothers me a lot when text displays slowly.
 

Neoweee

Member
I suppose for Sky games it can be chalked up to the fact that the games are older PC/PSP games that didn't think to include the feature.

I agree that anyone should be able to set the text speed as fast as they want in an RPG, including Instant Display. I am a very fast reader, and it bothers me a lot when text displays slowly.

Oh, the out of game Config menu has Dialog Beep options. Sweet.
 

Thoraxes

Member
In my opinion, the speedhack is all you need. It's essentially a "skip animation" button, but puts the game speed entirely under your control at all times. Very useful for things like elevators and such.

Evolution stuff is a downgrade, don't bother with it. One of the remixes ruins one of the signature songs of FC (Silver Will), and the butchering continues in SC with its horrific rendition of Fate of the Fairies.


Answers! (SC Spoilers)
1. There are big differences for a few fights and not so big with the others. I guess it depends on how much you value the conversations. For instance bringing Tita to the Renne fight doesn't result in anything special, Olivier and Bleublanc only get a few extra lines. However the Zane and Walter one is a huge addition with extra cutscene extension. Schera and Luciola get a great scene too. Bringing people to the Loewe fight will get unique dialogue for each person, and bringing Olivier and Mueller to Loewe will get a nice little nod to Cold Steel, for example.
2. Unfortunately you will not be able to bring your save. However if you're worried about missing the bonuses, someone in the thread will give you their save for sure, so just ask away.
3. I didn't find the fight that hard. Some people did. Loewe is susceptible to Clock Down and his clones hit for fixed damage so that alone made the fight a lot easier, in my opinion. I had a way harder time fighting any enemy that you couldn't use Clock Down on.
4. That was close to my party. You were fine. I had Tita in my 4th slot. She was mostly dead weight.
5. Yes.
I think I could make a decent argument for a bunch of the arrangements of of FC Evo tracks, but I really disliked mostly everything I heard from SC Evo. Not sure if there was a staff difference between the two, but they are like night and day in terms of quality. A lot of the FC Evo tracks (the ones that play the most in-game, like field music or the main battle theme) were relatively faithful and good renditions that took advantage of the modern music tech we have today, while SC's were much more "liberl" (this is a bad pun i'm trying to make, sorry) and ruined the original spirit of a lot of the tracks for me. It sounded more like arranging for the sake of arranging, than arranging with the intent of maintaining the spirit of the original while improving it.

If there were multiple arrangers on SC's or something, i'm pretty sure I could tell you if a person familiar with the works did them or not just by a quick listen.

and re: 4
I pretty much never used Kloe ever, unless it was a mandatory part.
 

preta

Member
I think I could make a decent argument for a bunch of the arrangements of of FC Evo tracks, but I really disliked mostly everything I heard from SC Evo. Not sure if there was a staff difference between the two, but they are like night and day in terms of quality. A lot of the FC Evo tracks (the ones that play the most in-game, like field music or the main battle theme) were relatively faithful and good renditions that took advantage of the modern music tech we have today, while SC's were much more "liberl" (this is a bad pun i'm trying to make, sorry) and ruined the original spirit of a lot of the tracks for me. It sounded more like arranging for the sake of arranging, than arranging with the intent of maintaining the spirit of the original while improving it.

If there were multiple arrangers on SC's or something, i'm pretty sure I could tell you if a person familiar with the works did them or not just by a quick listen.

and re: 4
I pretty much never used Kloe ever, unless it was a mandatory part.

It seems likely that Mitsuo Singa has something to do with it. He's only done arrangement for Tokyo Xanadu, Ys VIII, and SC and 3rd Evo, and a certain cheap synth guitar is very noticeable in all four. (Though I totally love this song anyway.)
 

Shouta

Member
Looks like Akatsuki no Kiseki officially started service about 30 minutes ago? Gonna login and see what this is about before bed.
 

Exentryk

Member
Been making slow progress in Sky FC. Mostly doing runaround quests so far, but it's nice and relaxing. Guessing the story will pick up eventually.

The gameplay is average so far. Need to get more quartz/magic and more party members to make it a little more exciting. Only have 2 party members so far. Sticking with Nightmare difficulty, and starting to get comfortable with it.
 

Shouta

Member
Got through some of the tutorials though it seems there's still a few features that needs to be unlocked. Definitely a gatcha game but the amount of story and dialogue is like a standard Trails game, lol. Battle system is up to snuff and the dungeons aren't bad. Definitely gonna try some more tomorrow.
 

Neoweee

Member
So what would be the big difference between playing CS2 on a PS TV vs. PS3? The resolution, lower textures, and worse shadows, and some slowdown? Is the gap as large as it was for CS1 in terms of performance? Were there any differences in the sound quality?

Ultimately, I know that this is a game I won't be playing much on handheld, because there's a giant stack of handheld-exclusive games that will be drawing my attention when handhelds are called for.
 

Psxphile

Member
So what would be the big difference between playing CS2 on a PS TV vs. PS3? The resolution, lower textures, and worse shadows, and some slowdown? Is the gap as large as it was for CS1 in terms of performance? Were there any differences in the sound quality?

Ultimately, I know that this is a game I won't be playing much on handheld, because there's a giant stack of handheld-exclusive games that will be drawing my attention when handhelds are called for.

I remember another big complaint regarding CS1 on Vita was that text and HUD seemed compressed? Reading dialogue was apparently a pain in the ass, PS3 definitely doesn't have that issue.
 

Cqef

Member
Your mileage may vary, but I had absolutely no problem related to the HUD or to reading when playing CS1 on the PSTV (on a 22 inches screen, 2 meters away).
 
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