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[Superflat]

Just finished my TLOU: RM, which is my second playthrough. Before this the last time I played was at PS3 release.

Some things felt different than they did last time. Certain segments that felt longer last time, for whatever reason, felt shorter this time. I think the tension of not knowing makes things feel longer, apparently.

While the game looks generally good, I noticed some oddness here and there, and the occasional "that thing looks like it's moving way too fast" graphical oddity. I also noticed the game liked to frequently prompt me with "hold X to equip over current slot" message throughout the game, even when no weapon is around to pick up. It just randomly prompts me with it.

Anyway, what I was left thinking about, as with the first time I finished the game, was how it ended.

Spoiler

Last time, I was focused mostly on Joel's lie and what Ellie's reaction to it meant, as well as the morality of what Joel did at Firefly HQ (in my opinion he did what any parent would do, particularly in a brutal postapocalyptic setting, but this has already been discussed to death and needn't be any further). I accepted initially that Ellie was quite troubled and conflicted about what Joel did and that he lied, but without more information I couldn't bring that into clearer focus. At a developer conference later on, last year, Druckmann basically spelled out what it all meant, that Ellie's reaction to Joel's lie wasn't at all complicit, and was more defiant -- "I realize I can't stay with you". I accepted that when he said it, but having played the entire game freshly now I just find myself with yet more questions. Something just doesn't feel complete here.

By the later acts of the game, Ellie is utterly attached to Joel. That's what the writing tells us again and again. When Henry abandons Joel, Ellie jumps back down "We stick together". She has a very troubled reaction to the thought of Joel leaving her with Tommy, later on, and, of course, she quite famously goes to extreme lengths to care for Joel from the moment he is injured. When she is surviving clicker attacks along with David, and still not quite sure what David's all about, she almost becomes Joel -- It's clear by this how much she looks up to him. She keeps saying to David things that Joel has said -- For example, When David asks "are you okay?" She says "You don't have to worry about me", which is precisely what Joel said to Ellie earlier on.

So why is it, then, that she seems to sort of lack perspective or empathy on this whole matter, all of the sudden, when it comes to Joel's lie? She knows he's lying, I think that's clear, but what exactly does she think happened? If her estimation of how events with the Fireflies played out is roughly accurate, which seems to be the case by Druckmann's keynote, then what is it she expects Joel to have done? She stuck with him no matter what, she went to the end of the world to save him. Why would she not be more understanding, then, when Joel does the same for her?

Not long before getting to Firefly HQ, Joel says to Ellie "I'm not leaving without you". Did she think he simply... would?

I stick with my initial impression of the ending

Spoiler

where Ellie knows it's a lie, but the "okay" means that she will will go along with him. That the line "Tell me everything you said about the Fireflies is true", was actually asking something else. It just make more sense to me, especially when she prefaces it with what she went through with Riley. As a result of both her experiences, she has survivors guilt and knows that Joel took her away from the Fireflies -- and whatever the reason for it was, she trusts his answer to mean that it was the right thing.

But even then, that's not to say that their relationship is going to continue as usual. Things are a lot more complex now, and we can only imagine what it will mean for the future.

I like that interpretation better because the gut-punch comes more from the viewer who knows exactly what Joel did.

Beauty of it all is that Druckmann said himself that there's no real way to interpret the ending.

 

[woen]

I stick with my initial impression of the ending

Spoiler

where Ellie knows it's a lie, but the "okay" means that she will will go along with him. That the line "Tell me everything you said about the Fireflies is true", was actually asking something else. It just make more sense to me, especially when she prefaces it with what she went through with Riley. As a result of both her experiences, she has survivors guilt and knows that Joel took her away from the Fireflies -- and whatever the reason for it was, she trusts his answer to mean that it was the right thing.

But even then, that's not to say that their relationship is going to continue as usual. Things are a lot more complex now, and we can only imagine what it will mean for the future.

I like that interpretation better because the gut-punch comes more from the viewer who knows exactly what Joel did.

Beauty of it all is that Druckmann said himself that there's no real way to interpret the ending.

And this is why it's a such well-written ending.

 

[RoboPlato]

And this is why it's a such well-written ending.

Yep. I don't even have my own definitive take on it. Every time makes me think and feel something different.

 

[lmbotiva]

Why? because in this game we can't shot and pray like Gears for instance?

This game has without a doubt the most satisfying gunplay in a third person shoother since Gears of War games, is even better because is more realistic.

The feedback is unmatched.

why is it that because someone doesn't like a game there has to be this immediate response about them being wrong? why even bring gears on the conversation, not everyone has to like that damn game you know? there is 80 million ps3s out in the hands of people and TLOU only sold 8 million, that should tell you that not everyone thinks like you, or me or the rest of the people who got the game

 

[Cloudy]

I stick with my initial impression of the ending

Spoiler

where Ellie knows it's a lie, but the "okay" means that she will will go along with him. That the line "Tell me everything you said about the Fireflies is true", was actually asking something else. It just make more sense to me, especially when she prefaces it with what she went through with Riley. As a result of both her experiences, she has survivors guilt and knows that Joel took her away from the Fireflies -- and whatever the reason for it was, she trusts his answer to mean that it was the right thing.

But even then, that's not to say that their relationship is going to continue as usual. Things are a lot more complex now, and we can only imagine what it will mean for the future.
.

I agree with this. Why do people overthink things so much?

 

[Hubb]

I agree with this. Why do overthink things so much>

If we didn't, we'd have nothing to talk about.

 

[IndustryX]

Question guys for those who watched the Grounded making of of the game

http://youtu.be/yH5MgEbBOps

Does it contain spoilers ?

I'm at the very end of the game (like 94%) and I'd rather not take any risk. Also, I want to share if with a friend who's much earlier in the game.

Thanks.

Thanks for this link

 

[hawk2025]

I've noticed that I got into the gameplay much faster the second time around due to being more accustomed to the gameplay.

I've also reinforced that many of the stronger complaints against the game are utter nonsense -- and seem based on the first 2 or so hours of the game only. For example:

1) "chest-high" cover unnaturally placed and giving away combat scenarios: This happens quite literally *twice* in the game while it teaches you the ropes of combat and to make it very clear that you can and should use cover in the game. The very first gun encounter in the game features obvious, clear cover in a small area. The second one is the larger, but still clearly hand-holding, gamey cover in a more open area to get you accustomed to the gameplay design and the use of cover. Everywhere else has natural, well-designed levels that render this complaint completely moot.

2) The dissonance between gameplay and story is nearly non-existent. Joel and his companions are setup properly as battle-hardened, trained survivors that are willing and able to kill. The only minor point I'm willing to concede is that the actual number of kills you make during the course of the game is large. But when, how, and the kind of person that you dispatch is completely and perfectly in line with the characterization and setting of the game. In fact, the game revels on the fact that you are killing monsters and humans alike, and explores and leverages this fact in its themes.

3) The amount of areas where one, and only one approach is possible is highly, highly exaggerated. This is, for me, the single most valid complaint against TLoU's gameplay: There are a few areas where, after a successful and tense stealth approach, you are required to kill a bandit and/or clicker to proceed.
However, it's not as simple as it looks on first brush. You don't need to kill everyone in all situations I've faced so far. Areas blocked by a couple of bandits can be cleared by molotovs without disturbing the rest of the enemies. A particularly early part of the game, where progress is hindered by a clicker, can be successfully navigated by dispatching the clicker silently, dropping the stairs (which inevitably makes noise), but then making use of stealth again to hide from the remaining clickers for a few seconds before proceeding.
This one is particularly still a valid complaint, of course, but exploring the different mechanics lets you progress in smart ways that don't necessarily involve killing everything in the area.


Overall, the game has lived up to my praise a year later, and then some.
Time to dig further into multiplayer tonight!

 

[mstevens]

Spoiler

When she is surviving clicker attacks along with David, and still not quite sure what David's all about, she almost becomes Joel. She keeps saying to David things that Joel has said -- For example, When David asks "are you okay?" She says "You don't have to worry about me", which is precisely what Joel said to Ellie earlier on. It's clear by this how much she looks up to him.

Spoiler

Also, David says something along the lines of "We did pretty good!" and she goes "We just got lucky", which is almost exactly the same as a conversation between Ellie and Joel right before the museum.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I might be turning a corner on this game. Still in the financial district, but I'm enjoying my time more now. I'd taken over a week off from the game. Hopefully it continues to get better, because I was lukewarm on this game until today. PEACE.

 

[mstevens]

I might be turning a corner on this game. Still in the financial district, but I'm enjoying my time more now. I'd taken over a week off from the game. Hopefully it continues to get better, because I was lukewarm on this game until today. PEACE.

It gets better and better after Pittsburgh IMO.

 

[Hubb]

I might be turning a corner on this game. Still in the financial district, but I'm enjoying my time more now. I'd taken over a week off from the game. Hopefully it continues to get better, because I was lukewarm on this game until today. PEACE.

If you aren't feeling the characters the game probably wont blow your mind from here on out. If you don't like the gameplay it really doesn't change from here on out.

 

[Superflat]

If you aren't feeling the characters the game probably wont blow your mind from here on out. If you don't like the gameplay it really doesn't change from here on out.

Gameplay doesn't change but the scenarios certainly do. Personally I thought most of the character development happened from the point

Spoiler

Ellie and Joel meet Henry and Sam

in Summer. I would say if you're not remotely interested in the characters by Fall, the rest of the game probably won't impress.

 

[Raptor]

why is it that because someone doesn't like a game there has to be this immediate response about them being wrong? why even bring gears on the conversation, not everyone has to like that damn game you know? there is 80 million ps3s out in the hands of people and TLOU only sold 8 million, that should tell you that not everyone thinks like you, or me or the rest of the people who got the game

Maybe because this is the TLOU thread and because is a forum where we deconstruct arguements for the sake of conversation making, in wich we can form examples on to why something posted may be incorrect or may be poorly thought out, in this case the gunplay being bad wich is close to objectively wrong.

I could be in a bad mood too but who cares this is a forum.

 

[hawk2025]

Maybe because this is the TLOU thread and because is a forum where we deconstruct arguements for the sake of conversation making, in wich we can form examples on to why something posted may be incorrect or may be poorly thought out, in this case the gunplay being bad wich is close to objectively wrong.

I could be in a bad mood too but who cares this is a forum.

I don't think you are in the wrong here; The purpose of posting opinions is to discuss and dive deeper into them, not just throw them into the vacuum. That's not a message board, it's a blog.

 

[Muffdraul]

Holy shit this is the first time I've seen such a thing!!

How do you do it?

Press triangle as the opponent is attacking. It only works on hunters, and I think it only works if you both have melee weapons. Maybe it also works if you're both bare handed but I don't recall ever doing that myself.

 

[milkham]

Lol, calling those puzzles is giving them too much credit.

they're not puzzles but narrative tools
http://youtu.be/MBTGwFE-a6g

 

[antitrop]

Why? because in this game we can't shot and pray like Gears for instance?

This game has without a doubt the most satisfying gunplay in a third person shoother since Gears of War games, is even better because is more realistic.

The feedback is unmatched.

Gonna have to agree with this.

 

[Pimpwerx]

It gets better and better after Pittsburgh IMO.

If you aren't feeling the characters the game probably wont blow your mind from here on out. If you don't like the gameplay it really doesn't change from here on out.

Gameplay doesn't change but the scenarios certainly do. Personally I thought most of the character development happened from the point

Spoiler

Ellie and Joel meet Henry and Sam

in Summer. I would say if you're not remotely interested in the characters by Fall, the rest of the game probably won't impress.

Thanks. That gives me some confidence. I took a quick peek at the chapter list and figure I'm nearing halfway. I'll finish the game, but by this point of progress, Uncharted had already gripped me to the point of obsession.

If I try playing a more trigger happy style from here on out, am I going to run out of ammo? That's the only reason I've stuck to the stealth, is I'm rationing supplies. However, if ammo drops increase with weapon usage, I'd much rather shoot my way through every scene. I'd rather leave stealth for the highest difficulty setting. PEACE.

 

[Jobbs]

If I try playing a more trigger happy style from here on out, am I going to run out of ammo? That's the only reason I've stuck to the stealth, is I'm rationing supplies. However, if ammo drops increase with weapon usage, I'd much rather shoot my way through every scene. I'd rather leave stealth for the highest difficulty setting. PEACE.

I just got done playing a "hard" playthrough and pretty much did it rambo style. Run out of ammo/supplies occasionally but generally speaking there's enough. Above hard, though, I would expect you need to sneak a lot more.

 

[stryke]

they're not puzzles but narrative tools
http://youtu.be/MBTGwFE-a6g

I agree. In fact I actually watched most of those vids just last weekend. The video essay was very well done.

They definitely serve their purpose as narrative tools, but as "interesting" puzzles? Please.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I just got done playing a "hard" playthrough and pretty much did it rambo style. Run out of ammo/supplies occasionally but generally speaking there's enough. Above hard, though, I would expect you need to sneak a lot more.

Excellent. I'm back at it in an hour. Going guns blazing. PEACE.

 

[Jobbs]

was reading about grounded and toying with the idea of trying it, but how on earth do people do the combat heavy portions of the game on that difficulty? for example,

Spoiler

the room defense forced combat in the ellie/david portion.

how?

 

[wowlace]

Savor those bullets. Guns are a last resort for me.

 

[milkham]

was reading about grounded and toying with the idea of trying it, but how on earth do people do the combat heavy portions of the game on that difficulty? for example,

Spoiler

the room defense forced combat in the ellie/david portion.

how?

Spoiler

hope for good aim, use your arrows, use brick/knife combo to conserve ammo, when david is fighting with one and staggers them you can jump in for a quick knife kill, keep him between you and them as much as possible, usually i end up retreating to the middle of that rickety bridge/walkway as fewer seem to come from behind in that situation, save molly and nail bomb for bloater. its hard though. at least for me

 

[Hubb]

was reading about grounded and toying with the idea of trying it, but how on earth do people do the combat heavy portions of the game on that difficulty? for example,

Spoiler

the room defense forced combat in the ellie/david portion.

how?

Never miss a shot, luck, and hoping your buddy kills a few.

 

[Portugeezer]

Not common for a game to live up to such hype, but after completing it I can safely say this game is a masterpiece.

I'm glad I got it.

 

[wowlace]

Not common for a game to live up to such hype, but after completing it I can safely say this game is a masterpiece.

I'm glad I got it.

Yep, best story driven game since FF7 imho. Gameplay is almost perfect for me.

 

[Rflagg]

Finished left behind just now, so all that is left is deciding what trophies I want to go after. The story really lived up to the billing and I love how varied game play often is.

Looking forward to new game+ I might do and extra run on easy+ just to destroy everthing with full upgrades and such.

 

[Portugeezer]

Yep, best story driven game since FF7 imho. Gameplay is almost perfect for me.

Gameplay wise it was so good that small things stand out, I could have done with less floating pallet sections, and you can head glitch/clip though walls to shoot through doorways/window frames, etc.

 

[The_Reckoning]

I beat the game on survivor, and went to start a new game on Grounded, thinking that I could do New Game + that way, but, apparently it doesn't work like that. I saved my game over the old save, now all my stats are gone, and no NG+. Question is, is there any way t start NG+ now, or do I have to beat it again?

 

[Draper]

Is there a trophy for playing Left Behind on Grounded?

 

[Hubb]

Is there a trophy for playing Left Behind on Grounded?

No. They should be the same as ps3.

 

[RoboPlato]

Is there a trophy for playing Left Behind on Grounded?

No

 

[Brian_FETO]

Ok I'm nearing the end of the single player (this is my second playthrough of the game, first of the remastered version) and:

Spoiler

Did they change the underground section before the hospital (the last confrontation with infected)? I remember having to go thru multiple areas of bloaters and clickers before, this time I just slipped past in a side room and didn't see any infected out in the open. That part was pretty rough on my first playthrough and it's kindof hilarious if I could've just skipped it the whole time. But I swear the last section where you need to boost Ellie up had a bloater or two walking around in my first playthrough......weird.

 

[Curufinwe]

I've noticed that I got into the gameplay much faster the second time around due to being more accustomed to the gameplay.

I've also reinforced that many of the stronger complaints against the game are utter nonsense -- and seem based on the first 2 or so hours of the game only. For example:

1) "chest-high" cover unnaturally placed and giving away combat scenarios: This happens quite literally *twice* in the game while it teaches you the ropes of combat and to make it very clear that you can and should use cover in the game. The very first gun encounter in the game features obvious, clear cover in a small area. The second one is the larger, but still clearly hand-holding, gamey cover in a more open area to get you accustomed to the gameplay design and the use of cover. Everywhere else has natural, well-designed levels that render this complaint completely moot.

2) The dissonance between gameplay and story is nearly non-existent. Joel and his companions are setup properly as battle-hardened, trained survivors that are willing and able to kill. The only minor point I'm willing to concede is that the actual number of kills you make during the course of the game is large. But when, how, and the kind of person that you dispatch is completely and perfectly in line with the characterization and setting of the game. In fact, the game revels on the fact that you are killing monsters and humans alike, and explores and leverages this fact in its themes.

3) The amount of areas where one, and only one approach is possible is highly, highly exaggerated. This is, for me, the single most valid complaint against TLoU's gameplay: There are a few areas where, after a successful and tense stealth approach, you are required to kill a bandit and/or clicker to proceed.
However, it's not as simple as it looks on first brush. You don't need to kill everyone in all situations I've faced so far. Areas blocked by a couple of bandits can be cleared by molotovs without disturbing the rest of the enemies. A particularly early part of the game, where progress is hindered by a clicker, can be successfully navigated by dispatching the clicker silently, dropping the stairs (which inevitably makes noise), but then making use of stealth again to hide from the remaining clickers for a few seconds before proceeding.
This one is particularly still a valid complaint, of course, but exploring the different mechanics lets you progress in smart ways that don't necessarily involve killing everything in the area.


Overall, the game has lived up to my praise a year later, and then some.
Time to dig further into multiplayer tonight!

Spoiler

Ellie's ability to routinely kill men twice her size, even ones that have her in a headlock, with her knife is pretty preposterous. It makes for fun gameplay, but 14 year old girl as stabbing machine is very dissonant.

 

[RoboPlato]

Ok I'm nearing the end of the single player (this is my second playthrough of the game, first of the remastered version) and:

Spoiler

Did they change the underground section before the hospital (the last confrontation with infected)? I remember having to go thru multiple areas of bloaters and clickers before, this time I just slipped past in a side room and didn't see any infected out in the open. That part was pretty rough on my first playthrough and it's kindof hilarious if I could've just skipped it the whole time. But I swear the last section where you need to boost Ellie up had a bloater or two walking around in my first playthrough......weird.

Glitch. Happened to me in the PS3 version as well.

 

[Jobbs]

Spoiler

Ellie's ability to routinely kill men twice her size, even ones that have her in a headlock, with her knife is pretty preposterous. It makes for fun gameplay, but 14 year old girl as stabbing machine is very dissonant.

Spoiler

We suspend our disbelief for certain things in video games the same way we do in movies. NO one, Joel or Ellie or anyone else, should be able to consistnetly kill large groups of enemies all by themselves, or survive multiple gunshots and heal them up in mere seconds with a bandage. We accept this as part of the medium. There are occasionally games that put you in dangerous scenarios where there is no possibility of fighting back (Outlast), and I'd argue that those games simply aren't very fun after the first hour or so.

What's a more important question than "is this plausible in real life?" is "is this internally consistent?" and I'd argue that it is. Ellie is not as strong as Joel. You can tell this clearly just by playing, and playing as her requires a somewhat different approach. You simply can't run headlong into an enemy and beat the fuck out of them. If you attempt a stealth kill from a frontal direction, much of the time the enemy will be able to block her hand. Ellie has to have openings otherwise she'll be dead very quickly, because her health drops more when she is hit, particularly by melee, and she can't stagger enemies just by using regular combo attacks like Joel can.

 

[Brian_FETO]

Glitch. Happened to me in the PS3 version as well.

10/10 over 200 awards for that glitch. Fuck that section

 

[MisterShine]

Yep. I don't even have my own definitive take on it. Every time makes me think and feel something different.

Having just finished my third playthrough of the game, I absolutely agree with this.

Spoiler

"Okay"

sounds and feels different each time.

 

[Mysterious]

That part at the end where

Spoiler

Joel is carrying Ellie, just like he did with Sarah in the prologue,

is the first time I've ever had tears due to a video game.

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

 

[wowlace]

That part at the end where

Spoiler

Joel is carrying Ellie, just like he did with Sarah in the prologue,

is the first time I've ever had tears due to a video game.

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

Spoiler

Marlene = misguided and niave.

 

[toastyToast]

Oh god! My heart

Finally got the section where

Spoiler

Ellie covers Joel worth the rifle

on grounded. I had 3 bullets across all my guns so I had to stealth it. The problem is the way the second wave of enemies spawns makes absolutely no sense.

The cutscene afterwards was kinda funny because

Spoiler

I killed all but the last enemy which I threw a brick at. As I'm swinging the pipe Ellie shoots him. Then she's like, "how did I do?" and Joel is all, "you did good, gurl."

 

[Jobbs]

That part at the end where

Spoiler

Joel is carrying Ellie, just like he did with Sarah in the prologue,

is the first time I've ever had tears due to a video game.

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

Spoiler

I think Marlene has a screw loose. She's stressed out, gnarled to the bone, and fanatical about a cause.

assemble a group of parents and ask them how many would be okay with their child/surrogate child being forcibly taken away from them -- And being shown the door without a chance to see her/him before their brain is cut apart.

Compile the groups' answers and the "okay with it" rate would be 0.0%. Doesn't matter if there's a chance for a cure. if it's YOUR child, then it doesn't matter. "Find someone else". This is why I don't think much of Marlene or her claims that this is harder for her than it is for Joel. I don't think I would have executed her like Joel did, but at the same time I've never lived in the world that Joel lives in. Killing probably becomes easier after a while.

 

[SolidChamp]

Spoiler

Compile the groups' answers and the "not okay" rate would be 0.0%...

This part of your post confuses me...I think you made a mistake because it conflicts with everything else you said.

 

[Jobbs]

This part of your post confuses me...I think you made a mistake because it conflicts with everything else you said.

yeah, I fixed it. my brain is scrambled eggs right now.

 

[the_batman]

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

no, how?

Spoiler

if she was evil she would've killed Joel without hesitation. she also wouldn't have trying to help find a "cure".

 

[toastyToast]

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

What the heck gave you that impression?

 

[Superflat]

That part at the end where

Spoiler

Joel is carrying Ellie, just like he did with Sarah in the prologue,

is the first time I've ever had tears due to a video game.

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

Nah.

Spoiler

Marlene is desperate. The Fireflies have been thinning out for a while (as was established in Boston QZ), many of them feeling mutinous and unhappy under Marlene's leadership (as noted on audio logs in Colorado and the hospital).

Her trek west with her team also cost her dearly, as it seems like most of them died on the way. The cutscene where she talks to Joel by his bed seems like someone who's at the end of her rope and isn't thinking rationally.

Her back is against the wall from all sides, but lo and behold, Ellie and Joel appear on her doorstep. The fact that she prepped Ellie for surgery before she even woke up speaks volumes.

The final showdown was a face-off, and neither was going to stand down. I would say they are both in the grey.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Nah.

Spoiler

Marlene is desperate. The Fireflies have been thinning out for a while (as was established in Boston QZ), many of them feeling mutinous and unhappy under Marlene's leadership (as noted on audio logs in Colorado and the hospital).

Her trek west with her team also cost her dearly, as it seems like most of them died on the way. The cutscene where she talks to Joel by his bed seems like someone who's at the end of her rope and isn't thinking rationally.

Her back is against the wall from all sides, but lo and behold, Ellie and Joel appear on her doorstep. The fact that she prepped Ellie for surgery before she even woke up speaks volumes.

The final showdown was a face-off, and neither was going to stand down. I would say they are both in the grey.

I'm curious, did you feel that

Spoiler

the firefly who was escorting Joel was going to execute him once he was escorted out, despite Marlene ordering otherwise?

The things that you had already stated about the group and the individual's behavior made me really uneasy.