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[foxdvd]

I am in the grounded club, and it feels better than any modern game I have finished on the highest difficulty...

This game...

When I played it on normal on the ps3, I felt it was an amazing game that lacked something. I called it one of my top 5 games of that year, but not the best. I never got around to doing another run, and picked it up on the ps4 because my buddy was acting like a kid about to go to his/her first prom...and his excitement got me hyped for it.

I played it on my ps4 on hard the first time. Something just clicked. Things started to make more sense, and the upped difficulty added to the game. I then played it on Survivor and found the lack of listen mode elevated the game to god like status. I read people saying don't play with listen mode, but did not understand how much it put you "into" the game until I tried it. The Grounded run just placed it on my all time game list right next to Baldur's Gate 2.

 

[Hoje0308]

Also do you guys consider

Spoiler

Marlene to be truly evil

?

Spoiler

It's pretty clear she's not evil, especially if you listen to her recordings.

Nice!! I am almost through

Spoiler

Pittsburgh, second half of financial district

on my Grounded+ run. It is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I am going to do a collectibles run on easy afterward to scoop up whatever I've missed. This game is soooo good!

The supplies you get on easier difficulties makes the game so easy to play. After going through on Survivor twice last year and Grounded a couple times this year, I've become so familiar with the game that run-and-gun tactics are easily executed. Speaking of which, I've become fond of taking hostages and then executing them after I kill their friends. Revenge Joel is the best Joel.

Nah.

Spoiler

Marlene is desperate. The Fireflies have been thinning out for a while (as was established in Boston QZ), many of them feeling mutinous and unhappy under Marlene's leadership (as noted on audio logs in Colorado and the hospital).

Her trek west with her team also cost her dearly, as it seems like most of them died on the way. The cutscene where she talks to Joel by his bed seems like someone who's at the end of her rope and isn't thinking rationally.

Her back is against the wall from all sides, but lo and behold, Ellie and Joel appear on her doorstep. The fact that she prepped Ellie for surgery before she even woke up speaks volumes.

The final showdown was a face-off, and neither was going to stand down. I would say they are both in the grey.

What was she supposed to do,

Spoiler

wake Ellie up and say, "Sorry kid, we have to disect your brain now. Them's the breaks and they be tough."
Her recordings make it clear that she searched for alternatives and that the decision still haunted her, even though she had doctors telling her it was the only way to have a chance at a cure. The idea of one girl losing her life to save millions probably seemed a small price to pay, especially given all she'd seen (and done), despite her feelings for Ellie and Ellie's mother. She's much less in the gray than Joel

 

[Superflat]

I'm curious, did you feel that

Spoiler

the firefly who was escorting Joel was going to execute him once he was escorted out, despite Marlene ordering otherwise?

The things that you had already stated about the group and the individual's behavior made me really uneasy.

Hmmm

Spoiler

there's a good case for it, in my opinion. Joel doesn't make his move until he walks past his backpack. There's two ways to interpret that scene.

The first interpretation is that he realizes his backpack (containing all his supplies) is within reach, and decides to make his move now that he knows where it is.

Second is that Joel sees his backpack but realizes that the Firefly escort isn't stopping to give it back to him (inferring that the escort was planning on killing him once they got outside). That could have been the final straw that made Joel lose any empathy he had for the Fireflies and fully commit to getting Ellie out of there.

It can be read either way.

 

[Jobbs]

Spoiler

despite her feelings for Ellie and Ellie's mother. She's much less in the gray than Joel

Spoiler

I think Joel has done some morally questionable things, but I don't think rescuing Ellie was really that grey. The circumstances he was presented with gave him no choice. Ask a parent. And while killing an army of soldiers to rescue her may seem a bit over the top, this is a video game where things involving action are over the top because video games. The real life comparison might be more like -- would you kill a couple of people to save your child from them -- and any parent would. Or would at least try.

Killing the doctor and Marlene were morally questionable moves, but sort of understandable if you think it through. These are the people who are threatening your kid's life.

 

[Hoje0308]

Spoiler

I think Joel has done some morally questionable things, but I don't think rescuing Ellie was really that grey. The circumstances he was presented with gave him no choice. Ask a parent. And while killing an army of soldiers to rescue her may seem a bit over the top, this is a video game where things involving action are over the top because video games. The real life comparison might be more like -- would you kill a couple of people to save your child from them -- and any parent would. Or would at least try.

As I said in another post, I think executing Marlene was morally questionable, but given the full context you can sort of understand it.

Spoiler

He's not her parent, he's living in a delusional world in which that is slowly becoming the case. Murdering someone to save a loved one's life is morally questionable. Murdering them while also condemning humanity to untold miseries because of your own selfish desires is wrong by any standard. He knows Ellie wouldn't support her decision, which is why he lied to her. That says more about him than I ever could. The guy is revealed as a lunatic early in the game and the only thing that changed throughout the game was the scope of his selfishness.

 

[Jobbs]

Spoiler

He's not her parent, he's living in a delusional world in which that is slowly becoming the case. Murdering someone to save a loved one's life is morally questionable. Murdering them while also condemning humanity to untold miseries because of your own selfish desires is wrong by any standard. He knows Ellie wouldn't support her decision, which is why he lied to her. That says more about him than I ever could. The guy is revealed as a lunatic early in the game and the only thing that changed throughout the game was the scope of his selfishness.

that's one way of looking at it. what I can say is that when it comes to the events in the game, while Joel was a bit rougher around the edges (particularly early on) than I would be, I generally identified with him and was on the same page as him when it comes to most of his decisions.

Spoiler

I wouldn't have left her to the fireflies either after how they handled things -- Coldcocking me while I'm performing CPR, taking her away to die without letting me see her -- I'd have done the same thing.

Maybe we're both monsters.

I think where Joel and I diverge the most, when it comes to events portrayed in the game,

Spoiler

is the lie. I don't think I'd have lied. It doesn't cap the story off in the intriguing way they wanted, but if it were really happening -- I'd have told the truth. She went to hell and back to save Joel, why wouldn't she let him do the same?

 

[TheVampire]

.

That guy sure can take a beating.

 

[Murtrod]

Spoiler

He's not her parent, he's living in a delusional world in which that is slowly becoming the case. Murdering someone to save a loved one's life is morally questionable. Murdering them while also condemning humanity to untold miseries because of your own selfish desires is wrong by any standard. He knows Ellie wouldn't support her decision, which is why he lied to her. That says more about him than I ever could. The guy is revealed as a lunatic early in the game and the only thing that changed throughout the game was the scope of his selfishness.

Spoiler

I think his choice to save her was taken out of the last bits of compassion he had left in him. If he were to have lost her, he would have dove into an unfathomable insanity, much worse than that of Sarah's death. Not only had he lost his own daughter, he would have lost yet another one of the few things he ever cared about.

Don't get me wrong, his choices are all questionable from a moral standpoint. But these are very primal reactions he's experiencing. Many of us would experience a similar reaction were it one of our own loved ones. It does not excuse his actions, but it helps our understanding of them.

 

[Superflat]

What was she supposed to do,

Spoiler

wake Ellie up and say, "Sorry kid, we have to disect your brain now. Them's the breaks and they be tough."

Well, kinda. It's the least you can do, really.

Spoiler

Not leaving any room for (Ellie's) choice is a grave error in judgement, and I believe she knew it. In her first recording she says: "I'm so tired. I'm exhausted and I just want this to end." Doesn't sound like someone who's thinking it through.

That to me sounded like a convenient excuse. Marlene's second recording is towards Anna, Ellie's deceased mother, and it reads like an appeal to justify her actions; a way to cope with the decision she made.

Her recordings make it clear that she searched for alternatives and that the decision still haunted her, even though she had doctors telling her it was the only way to have a chance at a cure. The idea of one girl losing her life to save millions probably seemed a small price to pay, especially given all she'd seen (and done), despite her feelings for Ellie and Ellie's mother. She's much less in the gray than Joel[/SPOILER]

Spoiler

It's the classic "the brain vs the heart" scenario, the clash of two ideologies. Marlene is willing to give up her humanity, while Joel is willing to give up cold logic. From my view, neither side is right or wrong -- but there can only be one winner regardless, and Joel just happened to come out on top.

 

[GremlinFool]

that's one way of looking at it. what I can say is that when it comes to the events in the game, while Joel was a bit rougher around the edges (particularly early on) than I would be, I generally identified with him and was on the same page as him when it comes to most of his decisions.

Spoiler

I wouldn't have left her to the fireflies either after how they handled things -- Coldcocking me while I'm performing CPR, taking her away to die without letting me see her -- I'd have done the same thing.

Maybe we're both monsters.

I think where Joel and I diverge the most, when it comes to events portrayed in the game,

Spoiler

is the lie. I don't think I'd have lied. It doesn't cap the story off in the intriguing way they wanted, but if it were really happening -- I'd have told the truth. She went to hell and back to save Joel, why wouldn't she let him do the same?

If Naughty Dog was trying to create an air of moral ambiguity around Joel's character, I think that's a grievous mistake. He's a monster from start to finish, full stop, even by the standards of the ruthless post-apocalyptic state of nature he occupies.

Your post is eerily similar to the ardent sympathizers of Walter White in Breaking Bad: very misguided and deeply unsettling to me. It's why people worry about gamers sometimes.

 

[Hoje0308]

Too many replies to quote without taking up a full page by myself, so I'll try to quickly address them.

One of my favorite things about the game is that is paints Joel as a

Spoiler

despicable character, yet shows the necessity of being just that in the world in which he exists. Even Ellie mentions how she's glad to have him on her side, because his aggression keeps them safe. The story of Ish highlights what happens to the weak. To me, this is the only thing that keeps Joel in the gray.

As for hanging onto humanity, or heart v. brain, I completely disagree with the assertion

Spoiler

that Marlene is losing her humanity by giving up Ellie. She's able to put aside her personal feelings for Ellie and the promise she made to Eliie's mother for the greater good. She cares enough about humanity and the well being of her species that her own feeling are secondary (or tertiary).Plus it's implied that Ellie would have made the same decision. Joel, on the other hand, is still only thinking about his own feelings. You can argue all you want to the contrary, but the fact is that he wouldn't have lied to Ellie if he wasn't a selfish agent acting just like you would expect.

 

[Jobbs]

If Naughty Dog was trying to create an air of moral ambiguity around Joel's character, I think that's a grievous mistake. He's a monster from start to finish, full stop, even by the standards of the ruthless post-apocalyptic state of nature he occupies.

Your post is eerily similar to the ardent sympathizers of Walter White in Breaking Bad: very misguided and deeply unsettling to me. It's why people worry about gamers sometimes.

Spoiler

if it makes you feel any better, if it were real I don't think I'd have murdered anyone in cold blood (specifically, the doctor and marlene).

But most of the other stuff made sense to me. Sorry to unsettle you.

oh, and just for the record, while I thought Walter White was occasionally a sympathetic figure, as I'm sure the writers intended, I don't condone or agree with his actions on the whole.

 

[milkham]

What was she supposed to do,

Spoiler

wake Ellie up and say, "Sorry kid, we have to disect your brain now. Them's the breaks and they be tough."
Her recordings make it clear that she searched for alternatives and that the decision still haunted her, even though she had doctors telling her it was the only way to have a chance at a cure. The idea of one girl losing her life to save millions probably seemed a small price to pay, especially given all she'd seen (and done), despite her feelings for Ellie and Ellie's mother. She's much less in the gray than Joel

Spoiler

how long do you think joel was unconscious? a couple hours at most, i think. within that time they somehow exhausted every other possibility? this girl who is immune is unique as far as anyone knows and within this timeframe they decide to kill her rather than study her further as a living specimen. They probably kept other infected alive longer than that to study them. Morality aside, I think thats just bad science

 

[Jobbs]

Spoiler

how long do you think joel was unconscious? a couple hours at most, i think. within that time they somehow exhausted every other possibility? this girl who is immune is unique as far as anyone knows and within this timeframe they decide to kill her rather than study her further as a living specimen. They probably kept other infected alive longer than that to study them

there are so many different reasons to cast doubt on the fireflies, in terms of their motives and their capabilities, and this is one of them. You can pick it apart all day.

Spoiler

At the end of the day, though, I think it was probably written to be received in a more simple way, in a way that fits the story -- If there's a flaw in the writing, it's that. I think the writing is trying to just frame things as, yeah, this is the cure, and that's why it's a big deal for Joel to sacrifice the cure for one girl. It puts things into a dramatic cast which fits the narrative, but I think there are a lot of little holes you can spread open when it comes to this that it sort of dilutes things a bit. After my first playthrough I was very preoccupied with how much bullshit the fireflies seem to be and why that makes it even easier to justify Joel's decision -- But looking at the big picture and hearing Druckmann talk, I think it's supposed to be taken simply as cure vs. girl.

 

[milkham]

there are so many different reasons to cast doubt on the fireflies, in terms of their motives and their capabilities, and this is one of them. You can pick it apart all day.

Spoiler

At the end of the day, though, I think it was probably written to be received in a more simple way, in a way that fits the story -- If there's a flaw in the writing, it's that. I think the writing is trying to just frame things as, yeah, this is the cure, and that's why it's a big deal for Joel to sacrifice the cure for one girl. It puts things into a dramatic cast which fits the narrative, but I think there are a lot of little holes you can spread open when it comes to this that it sort of dilutes things a bit. On my first playthrough I was very preoccupied with how much bullshit the fireflies seem to be and why that makes it even easier to justify Joel's decision -- But looking at the big picture and hearing Druckmann talk, I think it's supposed to be taken simply as cure vs. girl.

you're probably right.

Spoiler

i love this game

 

[nib95]

Just finished it. As incredible as I remember. Easily one of the best games ever made.

On a side note, the fight in the tunnel with the two bloaters never happened :S

 

[Hoje0308]

Spoiler

how long do you think joel was unconscious? a couple hours at most, i think. within that time they somehow exhausted every other possibility? this girl who is immune is unique as far as anyone knows and within this timeframe they decide to kill her rather than study her further as a living specimen. They probably kept other infected alive longer than that to study them. Morality aside, I think thats just bad science

You clearly haven't listened to all the tapes. Every possibility had been exhausted, the decision they came to was the only one left that

Spoiler

had a chance of finding a cure (or vaccine)

 

[Superflat]

Spoiler

looking at the big picture and hearing Druckmann talk, I think it's supposed to be taken simply as cure vs. girl.

Spoiler

In Joel's mind, that's definitely true, and that point comes through strong regardless. He doesn't give a fuck whether or not it was 100% foolproof, and he certainly wasn't mulling it over. He knew what he had to do.

But I think it's fine for players to look at the situation presented and speculate if it was really possible, given how grounded the story and setting is.

As for hanging onto humanity, or heart v. brain, I completely disagree with the assertion

Spoiler

that Marlene is losing her humanity by giving up Ellie. She's able to put aside her personal feelings for Ellie and the promise she made to Eliie's mother for the greater good. She cares enough about humanity and the well being of her species that her own feeling are secondary (or tertiary).Plus it's implied that Ellie would have made the same decision. Joel, on the other hand, is still only thinking about his own feelings. You can argue all you want to the contrary, but the fact is that he wouldn't have lied to Ellie if he wasn't a selfish agent acting just like you would expect.

Spoiler

But you don't think that not giving Ellie a choice on whether she wants to live or die for a cause is as bad as Joel lying to her? It appears just as self-serving, seeing how Marlene even states "as if I had a choice, it was more of a formality" (I'm paraphrasing), implying she would be in the same situation as Joel if she fully opposed.

I know my friend would give me his kidney if I asked; doesn't give me the right to break into his house while he's sleeping and cut it out of him unsolicited. "I knew you would give it to me anyways!"

Going through the recordings and seeing general state of the Fireflies, I can't come to the conclusion that Marlene is doing this out of the goodness of her heart that bleeds for humanity. She may be committed to the cause but what she was going to do, seeing how Ellie wasn't consulted, was murdering a child.

 

[Hoje0308]

Spoiler

In Joel's mind, that's definitely true, and that point comes through strong regardless. He doesn't give a fuck whether or not it was 100% foolproof, and he certainly wasn't mulling it over. He knew what he had to do.

But I think it's fine for players to look at the situation presented and speculate if it was really possible, given how grounded the story and setting is.

I don't even think it matters if there was a guarantee,

Spoiler

because Joel wasn't concerned by that at all. His desires came before everything else. He wanted to recreate what he lost, as evidenced by the symbolism of him running with Ellie in his arms.

Anyway, time for bed. Night GAF. See you at the Sony/MS pressers tomorrow!

 

[Superflat]

I don't even think it matters if there was a guarantee,

Spoiler

because Joel wasn't concerned by that at all. His desires came before everything else. He wanted to recreate what he lost, as evidenced by the symbolism of him running with Ellie in his arms.

I was agreeing with that point

 

[Jobbs]

Spoiler

I know my friend would give me his kidney if I asked; doesn't give me the right to break into his house while he's sleeping and cut it out of him unsolicited. "I knew you would give it to me anyways!"

Going through the recordings and seeing general state of the Fireflies, I can't come to the conclusion that Marlene is doing this out of the goodness of her heart that bleeds for humanity. She may be committed to the cause but what she was going to do, seeing how Ellie wasn't consulted, was murdering a child.

I like this and it's a good way of putting it.

Spoiler

The more I think it through, I just don't see how anyone in Joel's position would react differently. I say -- what parent would agree to give up their child for a cure (especially if that child is not consulted or allowed to say goodbyes). Someone said -- hey, that's not really his daughter.

This is where I think things through more. I don't think I'd ever give up any child for a chance at some cure. I'm just not in the business of sacrificing children. I just wouldn't go along with it, and if that child is in my care and I love them then multiply that a thousand times over.

*I* think giving up an innocent child to die for some perceived greater good is very morally troubled in itself. We all look out our own windows.

 

[milkham]

You clearly haven't listened to all the tapes. Every possibility had been exhausted, the decision they came to was the only one left that

Spoiler

had a chance of finding a cure (or vaccine)

Spoiler

i'm not saying they didnt SAY that all possibilities were exhausted, i just don't find it plausible

 

[wowlace]

If Naughty Dog was trying to create an air of moral ambiguity around Joel's character, I think that's a grievous mistake. He's a monster from start to finish, full stop, even by the standards of the ruthless post-apocalyptic state of nature he occupies.

Your post is eerily similar to the ardent sympathizers of Walter White in Breaking Bad: very misguided and deeply unsettling to me. It's why people worry about gamers sometimes.

Way over the top man. Borderline offensive.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Way over the top man. Borderline offensive.

It makes me wonder how a post like that is even allowed. I mean, if you're only resort to put your opinion above others is to stoop to something like that, to me that's what is concerning.

Spoiler

Plus Joel can be an absolute monster and still be sympathetic to the hand that's been dealt. Very little that takes place in the game can wash out the losses Joel suffers with Sarah, Tess, and almost Ellie. What happened before when he was with Tommy and is implied can't be spoken for since we don't know what situations they were in. To be clear, that doesn't excuse his actions, but to say someone can't sympathize with a father's loss is pretty disturbing in of itself.

 

[the_batman]

Someone convince me to go buy this. I already completed it on normal. What's new or worth it besides 1080p at 60fps?

try reading the OP.

It makes me wonder how a post like that is even allowed. I mean, if you're only resort to put your opinion above others is to stoop to something like that, to me that's what is concerning.

Way over the top man. Borderline offensive.

your guys' panties in a bunch or what? jeez.

 

[Kemal86]

There's some broken spoiler tags above in the giant spoiler fest. If the entire page is black, maybe move it to the spoiler thread?

 

[sevenchaos]

I get the feeling I'm approaching the end of the game.

Got to the

Spoiler

hospital

a little bit ago. Found out

Spoiler

they gonna cut out Ellie's brain

! Decided to stop for the night.

Fucking amazing. Emotionally engaging and at times exhausting.

 

[Mysterious]

So why is that Jak trophy in Left Behind called "Nobody's Perfect"? Are they referring to themselves (and saying Jak wasn't a good game)?

I get the feeling I'm approaching the end of the game.

Got to the

Spoiler

hospital

a little bit ago. Found out

Spoiler

they gonna cut out Ellie's brain

! Decided to stop for the night.

Fucking amazing. Emotionally engaging and at times exhausting.

You literally have less than an hour left.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

your guys' panties in a bunch or what? jeez.

No?

I just don't see what is acceptable about someone being able to throw shit around like that, whether or not you agree with his/her view on Joel. It can be said without throwing in disgusting insinuations indicating that people are disturbed individuals that equate to what the news brings up in every school shooting (pretty clear that this is meant by 'worried about gamers'). Just because they view a fictional character in a somewhat different light.

If it's a joke, it isn't a very humorous one. Just because this is a message board and not in person doesn't make it right. I wouldn't want someone to get temp-banned for maybe getting too passionate in a discussion, but that shouldn't have been said and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

 

[the_batman]

So why is that Jak trophy in Left Behind called "Nobody's Perfect"? Are they referring to themselves (and saying Jak wasn't a good game)?



You literally have less than an hour left.

not if he takes his sweet ass time. literally

 

[sevenchaos]

So why is that Jak trophy in Left Behind called "Nobody's Perfect"? Are they referring to themselves (and saying Jak wasn't a good game)?



You literally have less than an hour left.

I don't want it to end.

 

[the_batman]

I don't want it to end.

there is new game plus you know..

 

[Golgo 13]

I'm posting this because I just finished Left Behind. Sweet, incredibly human, with a master's touch for characters, just like the main game.

Anyway, It's been a few days since I finished the main game and I have been thinking about the game ever since, like 10 times a day, at least (and I have a busy life with work, a relationship, and children) That is the rarest of accomplishments -- resonance of that magnitude just doesn't exist in anything but the best games ever made.

So I can safely say as someone who's been playing games for 30 years, The Last Of Us is one of the best games I've ever played. Period.

When will this game get out of my head?

 

[sevenchaos]

there is new game plus you know..

For sure. But it wont be the same. First time experiencing blah blah blah.

 

[Jobbs]

I'm posting this because I just finished Left Behind. Sweet, incredibly human, with a master's touch for characters, just like the main game.

Anyway, It's been a few days since I finished the main game and I have been thinking about the game ever since, like 10 times a day, at least (and I have a busy life with work, a relationship, and children) That is the rarest of accomplishments -- resonance of that magnitude just doesn't exist in anything but the best games ever made.

So I can safely say as someone who's been playing games for 30 years, The Last Of Us is one of the best games I've ever played. Period.

When will this game get out of my head?

I was pretty caught up in the game the first time I played through it, and after finishing it took several days before I got back to normal. I know that sounds weird, but the emotions and emotional themes in the game stirred something up in me, and while the story and characters aren't real, emotions are real.

 

[Superflat]

For sure. But it wont be the same. First time experiencing blah blah blah.

If you're not on the difficulty already -- get Grounded on your next run, yo

 

[wowlace]

No?

I just don't see what is acceptable about someone being able to throw shit around like that, whether or not you agree with his/her view on Joel. It can be said without throwing in disgusting insinuations indicating that people are disturbed individuals that equate to what the news brings up in every school shooting (pretty clear that this is meant by 'worried about gamers'). Just because they view a fictional character in a somewhat different light.

If it's a joke, it isn't a very humorous one. Just because this is a message board and not in person doesn't make it right. I wouldn't want someone to get temp-banned for maybe getting too passionate in a discussion, but that shouldn't have been said and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Thank you for posting what I am too lazy to.

 

[Melchiah]

Yep, best story driven game since FF7 imho. Gameplay is almost perfect for me.

I'd say the best story-driven game since Silent hill 2, but with a far better combat.

Just finished it. As incredible as I remember. Easily one of the best games ever made.

On a side note, the fight in the tunnel with the two bloaters never happened :S

I'm definitely going to restart the section, if that happens to me.

 

[stitch512]

I finished this game on PS4 over weekend and it was my first ever play through. It was a good game that is for sure, however I just don't see where it can be called the 'great game ever'. Just my opinion however and I really am not trying to push anybodies buttons, but the story was not that great. What I did find exceptional though was the interaction with other characters while in gameplay. Maybe I just didn't 'get it' in terms of the story but I found it to be unfinished, as if it ended at a particular point to be 'edgy' or to ensure a sequel.

I would have found the game to be much better if

Spoiler

Joel did not kill Marlene, the fireflys found Joel and Ellie at Joel's home town, Ellie confirms her suspicions that Joel lied to her and she decides to go with the firefly's knowing full well what they intend to do as she is ready for her turn and to help mankind. THAT would have made it amazing in my eyes and would not require a sequel and be a true classic.

Like I said, its a good game but I had a few issues with it or maybe its just me, I mean it does get a lot of universal praise.

 

[Monkey_Plunkett]

Just finished my TLOU: RM, which is my second playthrough. Before this the last time I played was at PS3 release.

Some things felt different than they did last time. Certain segments that felt longer last time, for whatever reason, felt shorter this time. I think the tension of not knowing makes things feel longer, apparently.

While the game looks generally good, I noticed some oddness here and there, and the occasional "that thing looks like it's moving way too fast" graphical oddity. I also noticed the game liked to frequently prompt me with "hold X to equip over current slot" message throughout the game, even when no weapon is around to pick up. It just randomly prompts me with it.

Anyway, what I was left thinking about, as with the first time I finished the game, was how it ended.

Spoiler

Last time, I was focused mostly on Joel's lie and what Ellie's reaction to it meant, as well as the morality of what Joel did at Firefly HQ (in my opinion he did what any parent would do, particularly in a brutal postapocalyptic setting, but this has already been discussed to death and needn't be any further). I accepted initially that Ellie was quite troubled and conflicted about what Joel did and that he lied, but without more information I couldn't bring that into clearer focus. At a developer conference later on, last year, Druckmann basically spelled out what it all meant, that Ellie's reaction to Joel's lie wasn't at all complicit, and was more defiant -- "I realize I can't stay with you". I accepted that when he said it, but having played the entire game freshly now I just find myself with yet more questions. Something just doesn't feel complete here.

By the later acts of the game, Ellie is utterly attached to Joel. That's what the writing tells us again and again. When Henry abandons Joel, Ellie jumps back down "We stick together". She has a very troubled reaction to the thought of Joel leaving her with Tommy, later on, and, of course, she quite famously goes to extreme lengths to care for Joel from the moment he is injured. When she is surviving clicker attacks along with David, and still not quite sure what David's all about, she almost becomes Joel. She keeps saying to David things that Joel has said -- For example, When David asks "are you okay?" She says "You don't have to worry about me", which is precisely what Joel said to Ellie earlier on. It's clear by this how much she looks up to him.

So why is it, then, that she seems to sort of lack perspective or empathy on this whole matter, all of the sudden, when it comes to Joel's lie? She knows he's lying, I think that's clear, but what exactly does she think happened? If her estimation of how events with the Fireflies played out is roughly accurate, which seems to be the case by Druckmann's presentation, then what is it she expects Joel to have done? She stuck with him no matter what, she went to the end of the world to save him. Why would she not be more understanding, then, when Joel does the same for her?

Not long before getting to Firefly HQ, Joel says to Ellie "I'm not leaving without you". Did she think he simply... would?

Yeah this is pretty much what I got from the ending, nice post!

Spoiler

Some people seem to think Ellie knew she had to die, and was willing to die to give the Doctors a chance of reverse engineering a vaccine (I'm also not so sure that they would've had the means to make any great success of removing Ellie's Cordyceps) and point towards her quietness at the start of spring to support the theory, I think that's more down to her seeing the picture of the deer and the memories of what happened in Winter come flooding back. If she knew she was going to die why would she talk to Joel about stuff they're going to do after? She also said that sacrificing the few to save the many was stupid when you walk through the abandoned quarantine zone in Pittsburg. Though I do think that Naughty Dog have been very clever with the ending as it's quite open to interpretation and you can find things in the game to support whichever way you perceive it. I just don't understand people who play through the game and don't empathise with Joel, or call him a psychopath, as you should judge him on the standards set out in the world he lives in and not ours.

 

[FootballFan]

I'm posting this because I just finished Left Behind. Sweet, incredibly human, with a master's touch for characters, just like the main game.

Anyway, It's been a few days since I finished the main game and I have been thinking about the game ever since, like 10 times a day, at least (and I have a busy life with work, a relationship, and children) That is the rarest of accomplishments -- resonance of that magnitude just doesn't exist in anything but the best games ever made.

So I can safely say as someone who's been playing games for 30 years, The Last Of Us is one of the best games I've ever played. Period.

When will this game get out of my head?

This is what really grabbed me about the last of us.

I finished it, thought "great game"

Days later, I just couldn't stop thinking about it. I realised just how great it is.

 

[Superflat]

I finished this game on PS4 over weekend and it was my first ever play through. It was a good game that is for sure, however I just don't see where it can be called the 'great game ever'. Just my opinion however and I really am not trying to push anybodies buttons, but the story was not that great. What I did find exceptional though was the interaction with other characters while in gameplay. Maybe I just didn't 'get it' in terms of the story but I found it to be unfinished, as if it ended at a particular point to be 'edgy' or to ensure a sequel.

I would have found the game to be much better if

Spoiler

Joel did not kill Marlene, the fireflys found Joel and Ellie at Joel's home town, Ellie confirms her suspicions that Joel lied to her and she decides to go with the firefly's knowing full well what they intend to do as she is ready for her turn and to help mankind. THAT would have made it amazing in my eyes and would not require a sequel and be a true classic.

Like I said, its a good game but I had a few issues with it or maybe its just me, I mean it does get a lot of universal praise.

The problem with that ending is

Spoiler

that it turns into a sappy hollywood ending-by-committee with a pointless epilogue added in for a more palatable and "complete" ending. A tidy end like that for the morally grey story of TLOU would have been completely out of place. Your proposed ending would ultimately label each lead character as "good" and "evil", and that's not what it's about.

Having Ellie's pure selfless heart save the world and Joel be defined as a monster by the game shouldn't be decided for you because isn't true to what the narrative has shown us up till then. There are no tough choices made, no reflection needed, and the entire journey is simply a series of events instead of a carefully crafted narrative that was all laid out for the intended ending where Joel and Ellie's relationship is left conflicted and ambiguous.

The original ending is left purposefully grey and asks you to determine how the characters are feeling, and has you reflect on their entire journey to come up with a verdict on your own from what you experienced. It inspires discussion about what will happen, which characters did right, and what could have been.

 

[Huggers]

Help me GAF

Right, playing through on Surviour. No problems. Grabbing all the collectibles as I go. Got to the bit with the thick snow in chapter 9 and I don't have a full shiv to open a door. SO ANNOYING. I haven't used a shiv once and have obsessively hunted for scissors etc.

How do I go about righting this wrong? Do I have to play through it again? If I jump to the chapter I will still be shiv-less. Gaaaah

 

[Cudder]

Are there any collectibles that NEED to be gotten in one playthrough, and can't be collected by chapter select after? I'm doing my collectible run and somehow I missed a few items.

 

[psychotron]

Spoiler

Just was able to stealth my way through the library section in Pittsburgh. Didn't kill or alert a single person. Then after two failed attempts, I was able to do the same through the hotel! Playing on Grounded btw and never been so proud of myself, lol.

 

[Creamium]

woo I got giffed. That was actually the first time I pulled off one of those counters.

I didn't expect this, but Grounded is the most fun I've had with this game. The action and encounters are better than ever.

Are there any collectibles that NEED to be gotten in one playthrough, and can't be collected by chapter select after? I'm doing my collectible run and somehow I missed a few items.

The game has a separate save for collectibles. You can get them all through chapter select. Same for shiv doors actually.

 

[stitch512]

The problem with that ending is

Spoiler

that it turns into a sappy hollywood ending-by-committee with a pointless epilogue added in for a more palatable and "complete" ending. A tidy end like that for the morally grey story of TLOU would have been completely out of place. Your proposed ending would ultimately label each lead character as "good" and "evil", and that's not what it's about.

Having Ellie's pure selfless heart save the world and Joel be defined as a monster by the game shouldn't be decided for you because isn't true to what the narrative has shown us up till then. There are no tough choices made, no reflection needed, and the entire journey is simply a series of events instead of a carefully crafted narrative that was all laid out for the intended ending where Joel and Ellie's relationship is left conflicted and ambiguous.

The original ending is left purposefully grey and asks you to determine how the characters are feeling, and has you reflect on their entire journey to come up with a verdict on your own from what you experienced. It inspires discussion about what will happen, which characters did right, and what could have been.

Thank you for the reply, after reading what you have said I actually think that I will have to go through it again and maybe I will feel differently about it the second time.

 

[Birgitte2004]

I finished this game on PS4 over weekend and it was my first ever play through. It was a good game that is for sure, however I just don't see where it can be called the 'great game ever'. Just my opinion however and I really am not trying to push anybodies buttons, but the story was not that great. What I did find exceptional though was the interaction with other characters while in gameplay. Maybe I just didn't 'get it' in terms of the story but I found it to be unfinished, as if it ended at a particular point to be 'edgy' or to ensure a sequel.

I would have found the game to be much better if

Spoiler

Joel did not kill Marlene, the fireflys found Joel and Ellie at Joel's home town, Ellie confirms her suspicions that Joel lied to her and she decides to go with the firefly's knowing full well what they intend to do as she is ready for her turn and to help mankind. THAT would have made it amazing in my eyes and would not require a sequel and be a true classic.

Like I said, its a good game but I had a few issues with it or maybe its just me, I mean it does get a lot of universal praise.

It amazes me the number of people who feel the story wasn't great but would have been better if it was a total cliche instead. I guess that cliches really are cliches because people like things that way.

 

[ascii42]

So why is that Jak trophy in Left Behind called "Nobody's Perfect"? Are they referring to themselves (and saying Jak wasn't a good game)?

It's referring to Jak X in particular.

 

[stitch512]

It amazes me the number of people who feel the story wasn't great but would have been better if it was a total cliche instead. I guess that cliches really are cliches because people like things that way.

I'm terribly sorry that I would have liked some sort of conclusion out of a game that apparently has a great story.