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The Last Remnant |OT| of DON'T LISTEN TO REVIEWERS!
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
- Start date
Talk about adding insult to injury. IGN has a whole feature up today on how Square can fix their next gen RPGs. It's essentially another opportunity for them to tear IU and TLR apart. While neither game is perfect you'd think they'd have something else to talk about in late November during the gaming rush.
RevenantKioku
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This weekend turned out to be unfortunately busier than I expected, so I didn't play much. I just got to Elyasion (I forget the spelling.) So I went to the pub, got a quest and am in the Southwestern Plains.chespace said:
Schopenhauer
Member
batbeg said:Oh my God I love this game. I love it so much. Anyway, I might need a bit of help if anyone has any advice:
I'm fighting theGates of Hell boss, and he is handing it to me. I'm able to get in there and kill the minions with minimum damage, and start whoopin' his ass, but eventually he'll kill one of my party members, and that is, of course, the end of that. Because he instantly brings them back to life as minions, who I can not attack. What the hell?I got him down to blinking red, but unfortunately my three dead unions decided to bring death upon me
Also, I love Emmy. <3 Though "Grrreat!!" is not the fiercest battle cry :-\
I just fought that battle and yes the
Gates of Hell boss is a real pain in the ass. I just barely killed him by letting the remnant that rush summons remain in deadlock and attack using the flanking command, long distance attacks or by reviving down unions that went in for physical attacks (blue blaze II pretty much annihilated them). My battle rank is 44.
Anyway, you should be getting a prompt that says bring them back no matter what when he takes control of one of your unions. Maybe you don't have the herb skill that can revive other unions available?
Anyway, you should be getting a prompt that says bring them back no matter what when he takes control of one of your unions. Maybe you don't have the herb skill that can revive other unions available?
BudokaiMR2
Member
Just out of curiosity did the IGN review that has everyone up in arms state that they had the game installed? I mean sure most people in here seem to be installing but IMO it is more logical to grade the game without installs. I know it is going to be a pain to fit it on my 20GB and then you have the people
who have Arcades/Cores and would have to put up with these faults.
suckers
RevenantKioku
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They didn't state, or I missed it. Which is a graver sin, actually. Telling people that it can be better if you have the HDD would be a good thing, eh?
Dedication Through Light
Member
Xplay seemed to not really find it that much enjoyable (2 out of 5).
Apparently they discussed that it has way too many loading screens, is that actually true that it loads virtually every 2 minutes and what not?
Regardless, I still plan to get it eventually, the game battle system is too hot to miss.
Apparently they discussed that it has way too many loading screens, is that actually true that it loads virtually every 2 minutes and what not?
Regardless, I still plan to get it eventually, the game battle system is too hot to miss.
Y2Kev said:
The review itself is pretty indistinguishable from the others (Except this is one of the few that mentions the effect of installing the game on the HD), but this user comment actually caught my eye.
1UP Poster said:
Is... This actually known to happen, is this event simply a fluke or a case of bad luck, or is this guy simply mistaken or he did something wrong?
Zzoram said:
And yet, the regular people who are playing it say it's a really good game. There's, like, one negative comment in this whole thread. The reader average on IGN was, last I checked, 8.7 or something. People on other gaming forums are speaking favorably of it, too.
There's something wrong here.
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
Why is anyone surprised? Complex + Difficult + Some graphical issues = LOL
Unless of course it's a "notable" WRPG. Then it gets a free 9+. We've already had several examples this generation. Or a 'RPG' with heavy shooter elements (or do I repeat myself).
Today's gaming media culture is just not receptive to JRPGs of any sort (except FF/DQ... and that's mostly nostalgia and moneyhats).
Anyone into JRPGs has learned to ignore them and seek previews/reviews from credible sources. Just a few videos and actual information is usually enough to determine whether or not you'll like a game.
Unless of course it's a "notable" WRPG. Then it gets a free 9+. We've already had several examples this generation. Or a 'RPG' with heavy shooter elements (or do I repeat myself).
Today's gaming media culture is just not receptive to JRPGs of any sort (except FF/DQ... and that's mostly nostalgia and moneyhats).
Anyone into JRPGs has learned to ignore them and seek previews/reviews from credible sources. Just a few videos and actual information is usually enough to determine whether or not you'll like a game.
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
As far as the game loading constantly... it loads every battle going by videos. However, if the game is installed, the "loading" lasts about .5 seconds.
I imagine it would be annoying if you didn't install it, but I think it's already been established that if you're going to play, you're going to want to install.
I imagine it would be annoying if you didn't install it, but I think it's already been established that if you're going to play, you're going to want to install.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
DedicationThroughLight said:
It loads every time there is a screen change, just like every other game. Enter a new map: you load. Enter a building: you load. Enter a battle: you load. Finish a battle and return to the map: you load. Then again, this is really no different than any other game. Loading always takes place whenever there is a screen change in any RPG or game.
If you install The Last Remnant to the hard drive then the load times are actually very fast. They are much better than Lost Odyssey was running off the disc (no idea how LO's load times are when installed) and better than a lot of games on the Xbox 360. The problem is with The Last Remnant, they often insert big ugly green loading screens with a ton of "hint" text. The loading is often so fast that there is no way you could actually read all of the text on the screen, but nevertheless this ugly screen makes a lot of the loading screens that much more noticeable.
When running off the DVD the game is a mess. If you install it, then everything improves dramatically and it is more than playable. The load times are quick. The texture loading is also usually finished within a second or two, and the framerate really isn't bad at all.
AgentOtaku
Member
Seems like the reviews have officially gotten outta hand ...I mean wtf!?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Zzoram said:
The games really aren't very similar in terms of gameplay, although they often look very similar thanks to UE3, but personally I am having more fun with The Last Remnant. Personally, I really didn't like most of the cast of Lost Odyssey and the story, while not necessarily awful, just didn't capture me. I did enjoy the battle system (well most of the time at least) and the 1000 Years of Memories short stories, though.
Compared to Lost Odyssey, the story in The Last Remnant doesn't seem to stand out as much. However, that might be a good thing because the story here isn't particular good either (it may get better, though). I do like the characters a lot more in The Last Remnant, though. The battles are where the fun in this game lies. They really are a ton of fun once you learn how everything works.
Both games are pretty good, but in my opinion Lost Odyssey was pretty average outside of the excellent writing found in the short stories. Most of The Last Remnant is pretty average too, except for its battle system. If you like engaging battles with a lot of unique ideas then you will love The Last Remnant. Just make sure you give it at least 5 or 6 hours of your time before passing judgement on it.
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
Zefah said:
If GAF/Media really cared all of Bioware's console games would get rated a 2 for loading spam. Except all those old games had LONG ASS LOADING. Free Pass(tm).
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Zzoram said:
Eternal Sonata is really bad. You shouldn't even bother with it. It has really pretty graphics and a nice soundtrack, but that is it. Compared to the other games in your list it is abyssmal. The funny thing is that it got really good reviews from the western gaming "journalists". It is just more proof that they only put in a couple of hours into RPGs before writing up their reviews. Eternal Sonata looks interesting for the first 2-3 hours, but if you play it much longer than that you will find out how hollow the battle system is and how horrible the story actually is.
If you must play it then definitely make it the first game you play. At least then you will appeciate the other games for how much better they are in comparison.
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
Speevy said:
Credible sources? People who have actually played?
Their actual opinion is irrelevant, it's the information they provide that matters. And even if they aren't fans of the game, you can find people out there who at least KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE DOING. All these reviews are demonstrating complete ignorance of the battle mechanics/anything. This isn't just a problem with RPGs, either.
AgentOtaku
Member
Zefah said:
this this fucking this
It blows my mind how well Eternal Sonata is received here
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
BudokaiMR2 said:
This is why I really can't attack the scores themselves. I consider myself pretty tolerant when it comes to shoddy performance, but after playing the game for about 5 hours off the DVD, I found it practically unplayable. I was about to just sell the game back until I decided to try and install it. I am glad I did, because I would have missed out on a great game.
However, it is entirely Square-Enix's fault. They needed to optimize this so that it would run off the DVD with playable performance, or require an install. I can blame the reviewers for writing reviews when it is fairly obvious they didn't play through the game. I can blame them for writing untruths about the game, but I can't really blame them for attacking the technical issues if they were just playing it off the DVD. They really should add a disclaimer that explains how much better the game runs when it is installed to the hard drive, though.
Zefah said:
Eternal Sonata is still expensive, which is why I was going to play Blue Dragon first. I've seen Blue Dragon for $15 but Eternal Sonata is still $35 for some reason, even though it's apparently a short and not-as-good game. Maybe I'll just rent Eternal Sonata, beat it quickly, then buy Blue Dragon.
The main draw of Eternal Sonata for me is definitely the art and music. Hopefully I'll be able to get a decent number of achievements as well, but I suspect I won't.
Metalic Sand
who is Emo-Beas?
So everyone seems to like this game and the Huge flaw is loading times? Loading times dont bother me at all. Or is there bad graphical flaws like framerate because bad FR drives me insane.
I LOVED LO and BD btw. If that helps at all in me liking this.
Just mite pick this up from amazon on black friday.
I LOVED LO and BD btw. If that helps at all in me liking this.
Just mite pick this up from amazon on black friday.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Keyser Soze said:
I liked Blue Dragon a lot and kind of liked Lost Odyssey and I think The Last Remnant is a ton of fun. Just make sure you can free up 6gb of space to install the game (one disc at a time) and are willing to devote at least 5 hours to the game to understand the battle system.
Metalic Sand said:
The videos show obvious framerate slowdown, and it appears to be fairly common in battle. Loading is supposedly helped a lot by installing. I won't know how much the framerate will bother me until I play it, but I'm still going to give it a chance, when I have the time.
CounterSeal
Member
Well this sucks. I currently have Gears of War 2 installed and I don't think I can free up another 6+GBs without deleting some important content of other games... don't feel like uninstalling Gears 2 since I play it so often, but I might not have a choice, which is complete bs because I recall something like this happening with a certain PS3 game where installing was basically the only way to have a relatively smooth experience. S-E and all devs need to know that this can't be tolerated.
Blast Processing
Member
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Take a few deep breaths and go listen to the reviewer's account of his 70 hours with the game on this week's 1UP FM podcast. At least then you'll have a firmer foundation to blast him from.
rocksolidaudio
Member
Blast Processing said:
thank you. justin has been busting his ass working late and playing from home non-stop for the last week to finish it -- despite hating the game -- to bring you guys a relatively timely review. and he's a big RPG fan. you're free to disagree, but don't be so quick to disregard how much effort someone puts into their job.
Android18a
Member
*sigh*
I'm actually enjoying this the more I play. Aside from the graphical niggles, there's actually very little to complain about. I wish you had more stuff to do in towns (whatever happened to RPGs where you could go into peoples homes and steal their treasures?) and it does that annoying FFXII thing where only 1% of the population can be spoken to, but on the whole it's a fantastic combat-based RPG with a genuinely original battle system and mostly likable cast.
Are people just hating on TLR to be "in with the crowd"?
I'm actually enjoying this the more I play. Aside from the graphical niggles, there's actually very little to complain about. I wish you had more stuff to do in towns (whatever happened to RPGs where you could go into peoples homes and steal their treasures?) and it does that annoying FFXII thing where only 1% of the population can be spoken to, but on the whole it's a fantastic combat-based RPG with a genuinely original battle system and mostly likable cast.
Are people just hating on TLR to be "in with the crowd"?
Well, a review is a review and so it really just comes down to differing opinions.
What you should lift from reviews are hopefully factual bits that you can use to see if it's the type of game that would be agreeable with you.
I find TLR to be painfully old-school in all the worst JRPG ways. The parts where you're moving the story along, like exploring towns and talking to NPCs... ugh, it might as well just be a series of menus and gorgeous cutscenes as far as I'm concerned.
I'm a western gamer now, through and through I think. Yes, I am still charmed by the occasional Japanese developed game because of some ingenious game mechanic or the oft-charming art direction, but for the most part, I like my first-person shooters, my CRPGs, and neo-realistic everything. Those of you who know me and my tastes here on GAF know where I'm coming from. I'll fucking argue with you well into next year about the merits of Jagged Alliance, Operation Flashpoint, and the unsung gameplay merits of Crysis. Bad art be damned.
Yet, I find TLR to be very compelling from a game mechanics standpoint. The combat system really IS a true evolution of the genre, without losing touch with its roots. A coworker of mine at Turn 10 came by today while I was sneaking in a battle or two in between work and watched me go through a few encounters. He noticed that the game had lifted a lot of elements from World of Warcraft (of which he is a hardcore devotee). Everything from combat commands, to how you loot, to what you do with the loot, to how you trigger encounters and make the monsters go aggro... it was all very "western" influenced. Being a WoW fearful, I was pretty amazed. So maybe Square-Enix don't need IGN's advice after all, since they clearly are aware of the advancements in western RPGs and, like FFXI and FFXII, are lifting elements they find compelling.
The combat system in TLR basically play out like mini-SRPG battles, except you're not dealing with a grid. Some fights get nail-bitingly intense and you'll be down to your last couple guys, and you'll walk away feeling a great sense of accomplishment. But after every battle, the board is wiped clean and like a SRPG, you get all your health back. The game encourages you to take on as much as you can without being overwhelmed in a very WoW-like risk vs. reward system. It helps that the actual fighting and strategies are very deep.
I suspect a lot of people on the fence in this thread are merely just here for the spectacle and the occasional troll to rile up the crew that is knee-deep engaged in TLR. There's certainly enough articles and evidence out there now to give you a good idea of what the game is like.
Make up your own damn mind and take a chance.
What you should lift from reviews are hopefully factual bits that you can use to see if it's the type of game that would be agreeable with you.
I find TLR to be painfully old-school in all the worst JRPG ways. The parts where you're moving the story along, like exploring towns and talking to NPCs... ugh, it might as well just be a series of menus and gorgeous cutscenes as far as I'm concerned.
I'm a western gamer now, through and through I think. Yes, I am still charmed by the occasional Japanese developed game because of some ingenious game mechanic or the oft-charming art direction, but for the most part, I like my first-person shooters, my CRPGs, and neo-realistic everything. Those of you who know me and my tastes here on GAF know where I'm coming from. I'll fucking argue with you well into next year about the merits of Jagged Alliance, Operation Flashpoint, and the unsung gameplay merits of Crysis. Bad art be damned.
Yet, I find TLR to be very compelling from a game mechanics standpoint. The combat system really IS a true evolution of the genre, without losing touch with its roots. A coworker of mine at Turn 10 came by today while I was sneaking in a battle or two in between work and watched me go through a few encounters. He noticed that the game had lifted a lot of elements from World of Warcraft (of which he is a hardcore devotee). Everything from combat commands, to how you loot, to what you do with the loot, to how you trigger encounters and make the monsters go aggro... it was all very "western" influenced. Being a WoW fearful, I was pretty amazed. So maybe Square-Enix don't need IGN's advice after all, since they clearly are aware of the advancements in western RPGs and, like FFXI and FFXII, are lifting elements they find compelling.
The combat system in TLR basically play out like mini-SRPG battles, except you're not dealing with a grid. Some fights get nail-bitingly intense and you'll be down to your last couple guys, and you'll walk away feeling a great sense of accomplishment. But after every battle, the board is wiped clean and like a SRPG, you get all your health back. The game encourages you to take on as much as you can without being overwhelmed in a very WoW-like risk vs. reward system. It helps that the actual fighting and strategies are very deep.
I suspect a lot of people on the fence in this thread are merely just here for the spectacle and the occasional troll to rile up the crew that is knee-deep engaged in TLR. There's certainly enough articles and evidence out there now to give you a good idea of what the game is like.
Make up your own damn mind and take a chance.
RevenantKioku
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I got more of a Warhammer feel than I ever did WoW, but then again given what Warcraft "borrows" from.chespace said:
RevenantKioku
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I'll happily disregard how much someone deserves their job!rocksolidaudio said:
Which one is Justin, because some of these reviews read like someone who really should not be allowed to write for a living.
Aeana said:
The User Review average on Metacritic is 7.2, which is only a bit higher than the press average for what it's worth - which, in my opinion, is not very much. There are all sorts of statistical sampling nightmares about going off voluntarily submitted reviews. For example, people are more likely to volunteer if they have an extreme opinion and are more likely to be playing the game early if they were interested in it and ergo predisposed to like it. Moreover, unlike reviewers, users have paid for the game, and there is tons of research in decision-making that shows that people are often willing to deceive themselves to justify the cost of decisions.
Then there's the further question of if you consider those user review scores to be valid, when it's suspect as to whether most of the people submitting scores have had the game long enough to play through it thoroughly. On GAF threads in release week, it's easy to get a distorted picture of things, as many people end up getting swept up into extremely polarized positions based on the hype and the general nature of discourse on the forum. Just look at the thread title for an example of this.
Finally, scores are a poor point of comparison, because they contain very little information. If you look at a lot of the review text, you'll see that their impressions are not really that different from those presented by users.
RevenantKioku
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It's just sad to think people are playing things like Little Big Planet, Fallout 3 and Gears of War 2 when there is a much better game in TLR to be found.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
RevenantKioku said:
I haven't had a chance to play Little Big Planet, but Fallout 3 and Gears of War 2 are both very awesome games. The Last Remnant is great too, but honestly, at this point (having played through Fallout 3, Gears of War 2 and having put about 15 hours into The Last Remnant) if I had to go back and choose only one game for the year it wouldn't be The Last Remnant. It is a damn good game, though. I'm lucky I don't have to choose.
tokkun said:
The main point was the actual posts in this thread and on other forums. It's mostly positive. I simply threw in the reader averages as another point of positive reactions.
I think you'll find that nobody except for Revenant Kioku was hyped for The Last Remnant. If you go look at threads about the game, it's full of people whining about how ugly it is or how bad the framerate looked in videos. If that. Most of the threads didn't actually get very many posts at all. It's absolutely not about hype with this game, and I'd go as far to say that most people around here actually went into the game expecting it to not be very good. I'm one of those people. I got it because it's a new turn-based RPG, and I feel it necessary to support them. Going into the game not expecting to like it very much has left me incredibly pleasantly surprised.
That's only true for some reviews, such as the Gamespot one (which makes absolutely no sense at all -- the score and text don't jibe at all, unless the reviewer is one of those poor people who allows things like texture pop-in to completely ruin their experience). More recent reviews -- most notably IGN's -- are full of vitriol toward the game.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. The fact is that users look at scores first, reviews second (if ever). The low scores, and reviews like IGN's, are misrepresenting the game in a big way, and that is why I and others are up in arms about. If you'd like to see evidence of this, look in this very thread. There are pages and pages of extremely positive impressions, and people keep coming in every time a review is posted saying, essentially, that nobody here has any idea what they're talking about, and the game must be terrible.
It's not.
RevenantKioku
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I find that very difficult to believe!Zefah said:
Yeah, I was excited for TLR since TGS, and fuck I didn't even know a thing about it before then.
Darkman M said:
Only if you're a conspiracy theorist.
RevenantKioku said:
Good Lord. I guess you got one of three right there, but still. :lol
I notice the "people will go to lengths to justify something they spent money on" theory doesn't get floated much when it comes to the old "reviews don't match the user ratings" conundrum.
RevenantKioku
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The converse to that is these reviewers are being paid to play games and have opinions. I don't see any value in that.MattKeil said:
I do value my own money and game time, and wouldn't want others to waste it when I'd imagine theirs is just as precious.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Aeana said:
You do realize that GAF does not equal the general public? I also take it as a good sign for the game that user scores are looking good but they are not reliable at all. Hard to believe that most people posting those reviews are finished with the game, and as tokkun said there are people reviewing it who just have some kind of investment in the game. Sure it wasn't hyped on GAF but I know dozens of people who have been talking about it for months. Why? Because it's a new RPG from Square.
I still want to try it, and would like a demo, even though I usually come away from RPG demos with a bad taste in my mouth.
RevenantKioku said:
I do. Before I buy a game, I'd like to know if it's any good. Reviewers are better at articulating the good and bad of a game than your average forum poster. They may not be perfect, but it helps me with my decisions. While they can be off from time to time, they are generally pretty close to the truth in my experience.
I suspect part of the reason why this score was so low was also the time of year. It came out in November, the most AAA packed month of the year, which means reviewers were comparing their experience with this game to their experiences with other games. Eternal Sonata came out during the slow season, when it's merits wouldn't get overshadowed by tons of superior games.
It would be interesting to see what other games the reviewers of this game were reviewing in the last month.
BudokaiMR2 said:
Do you realize that I didn't just limit it GAF? You can find the same buzz on GameFAQs and other gaming forums. I also have two real-life friends playing it and they're enjoying it, too.
This is getting tiring. I don't like going out of my way to defend games, but the treatment of this game in particular by the media contrasts so greatly with not only my own personal feelings about it, but my observations of others'. I'm genuinely flabbergasted by what reviewers are saying about the game. Not only that, though, I'm saddened to see people decide that the game isn't worth their time based on these high-profile reviewers' opinions, completely ignoring the opinions of anyone else.
I'm sorry to all of you who would prefer to listen exclusively to these reviewers and not regular gamers. You're missing out on a fantastic game. As RK said, an individual's money and their gaming time are precious and valuble, and I wouldn't be trying to get people to give it a shot if I didn't think it was worthwhile. But in the end, it is your time and your money, so do what you'd like.
I hope I never see any of you whining about how all SE does is pump out sequels and remakes again, though.