Inferno313
Banned
I gotta say, as a video editor myself, the editing in this season is gorgeous at times. Anytime they cut in a Malick style flashback that lasts just frames long, I get giddy.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Leftovers S2 |OT| We're Going To Texas - [Renewed for 3rd and final season]
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
bodyofanamerican
Member
There's one thing that I keep coming back to. There's no way they do another "entire town vs. GR" confrontation to end this season again, right?
I think the most straight forward theory is Evie and her friends are suicide bombers that blow up the bridge, but I can't imagine it's going to be that simple.
Man, they've got a LOT of ground to cover in the next episode.
- Murphys finding out Evie's alive
- John vs. Kevin
- What does Tom do with his knowledge of Evie being alive
- Revelation of whatever Meg's actual plan for Jarden is
I think the most straight forward theory is Evie and her friends are suicide bombers that blow up the bridge, but I can't imagine it's going to be that simple.
Man, they've got a LOT of ground to cover in the next episode.
- Murphys finding out Evie's alive
- John vs. Kevin
- What does Tom do with his knowledge of Evie being alive
- Revelation of whatever Meg's actual plan for Jarden is
bodyofanamerican
Member
They never said. She demanded Isaac tell her, and I think they cut to her storming out of his house, I believe.
User 479360
Banned
It was weird seeing Meg in regular clothes and talking. I took a bit to get used to where this episode fell in the timeline.
Kadayi
Banned
The wheels are in motion that's for sure. Meg is Patti on steroids. That conversation between her and Matt was chills. Finale is going to be something else. I hope Tommy manages to get out of Dodge though.
Also called it that the girls weren't departed. Though getting the sense of the plan, they're going to be real soon
Lumpy Onion
Member
Great episode. Meg made me incredibly nervous. Even though she hasn't been in the season much at all I think she left a big impression. I can't imagine anything pleasant will come from her scheme. For some reason I imagined the bridge would get blown up at some point the first time I heard that it was the only road into Miracle. The twist about the girls was pretty satisfying too. I'm glad someone mentioned the cricket John was searching for in the house because I had totally forgotten about that bit. I'm thinking I will be re-watching S2 to refresh me for the finale.
Great use of music as well. That version of "The Promise" gave me chills. This is probably the best show on TV IMO.
Great use of music as well. That version of "The Promise" gave me chills. This is probably the best show on TV IMO.
Lost also "answered" some questions. It's just that most of those answers were unsatisfactory (quite underwhelming or plain nonsensical).
It's not really different here. "The girls were part of the Guilty Remnants." Okay. So we can now ask the same question we could ask for any member of the Guilty Remnants, really: "why?" I mean, that group makes just as little sense now as it ever did.
(And it looks like the season finale will once again be about one of their pranks. What a winning formula.)
"Exactly the kind of effect that would be convenient to us writers, as it happens: you would join the Guilty Remnants and be part of their new prank! What a coincidence!"Damon Lindelof said:
"Of course! It makes so much sense. Because... Er. Something something sudden departure something something lack of answers. So, yeah, people join the Guilty Remnants. That works, right?"Damon Lindelof said:
Well... Yeah.Damon Lindelof said:
So, er... "What a twist"?
Okay, I can't be the only one who's annoyed about how (to some writers, anyways) it always has to be about making the audience go "whoa, I didn't see that one coming! what a twist!".Damon Lindelof said:
It's easy to write surprising, unpredictable developments. Hell, when there's no rhyme or reason to your characters' behaviors, anything is "unpredictable". It's to have your twist actually make sense that's the hard part.
And really, I understand the appeal of a good twist, but I'm getting so fucking tired of these "single-use stories", meant to be experienced just the once, spoiler-free. To me, a genuinely good story is one that's absolutely worth revisiting (and thus can stand further scrutiny), but it seems that last part is simply not a concern anymore, in some circles... Possibly because there's such an abundance of media to "consume" nowadays, it's assumed the audience won't take the time to watch something a second, third time?
Anyway, yeah, nowadays, the audience is likely to guess twists. So fucking what? That only matters on a first watch, and if your story's genuinely good, it's not such a big deal.
Keep focusing on trying to beat the internet's Mystery Solving Machine, and you'll just come up with random developments that come out of nowhere, without any foreshadowing or logic to them. Hardly a good idea, if you care about how your story will stand the test of time (I realize that's a big "if").
Yes, that's a neat bit of foreshadowing. But as pointed out above: Guilty fucking Remnants. Why would they be part of that group?Damon Lindelof said:
So that's a nice coat of paint, but below that...
User 479360
Banned
Think next week's episode will be the final one? Or has something been said about a third season?
I last read that talks hadn't even been initiated by the network.
I last read that talks hadn't even been initiated by the network.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Perrotta said they were still finishing post-production on the finale (this was a few weeks ago), and that they need some time to decompress before even contemplating the idea for a 3rd season.
This is the exact opposite of what GR do. They don't want to give people hope.
I mean, not that I really think the GR has ever been a great or interesting element of the show, but...people have been joining crazy cults for very little "real" reasons throughout all of history. Why did anyone ever become Christen, or Muslim, or Scientologist, or become a member of the Manson Family?
I think it is pretty obvious why. I think they have given a lot of reasons.
The girl "knows" Miracle isn't special. She is her fathers daughter.
So she joins a militant wing of a group who is going to work their damnedest to prove that Miracle isn't special. She wants people to stop with the mystical bull shit, to stop thinking the water where they skinny dip is anything special. It is just a town that happened to get lucky.
They didn't joint the guilty remnant for "no reason", they joined it because they knew that they had the power to make a big stand, to show that Miracles don't happen in Miracle.
The following is pure speculation on my part for what may happen in the last episode.
The girls make a "miraculous" return. But they are also going to have explosive vests on them. They make a speech about how their are no miracles in miracle, nothing special, nothing sacred. And they blow themselves up in front of everyone, potentially taking a couple of major characters with them.
It's been discussed earlier in the thread, but the problem isn't "who would join a religion/cult?", but "who would join that particular group?"
What is enticing about the Guilty Remnants? What do they offer?
That's just what Meg (who, we just found out, apparently hates the town because of whatever the psychic told her) currently wants to do, not what the Guilty Remnants are about (generally being assholes and playing cruel pranks on people so they don't forget something they clearly remember anyway).
Yet they apparently adopted the Guilty Remnants' silly ways?
You can make the exact same argument for any religion or cult.
Numbers. They are the biggest cult (that we know of). it is like kids going off to join ISIS.
No, precisely because religions/cults generally offer something.
What's the draw, here?
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Shieeeeeeeeeeeeet
KoruptData
Member
Plot twist, everything will go wrong for Meg and the girls because miracles will happen in Miracle.
The draw seems to be that a certain segment of people in this world are so mad and emotionally destroyed by the Departure that they view any attempts at moving past the event or continuing their lives as some sort of sick joke, and the GR are the people that best embody that viewpoint.
User 479360
Banned
I haven't seen much of LOST outside of the first couple of seasons, and had been planning to watch it all. Then I watched This is 40 and the stupid movie spoiled it for me.
As for the explicit content: I don't think it's GoT level at all. There's some nudity, deep themes and profanity IIRC, but nothing too crazy.
Please, do yourself a favour and start from the beginning. Both seasons are of quality.
And it seems the show is trying to argue that's because the departure "changed everything": as they put it again last week, it made people suddenly realize you could just lose your loved ones without warning and for no apparent reason.
... Which, er... Is that really a new thing? Sudden, random losses? Unexplained disappearances? Doesn't that happen all the fucking time in our real world? And I'm not seeing "we've lost loved ones and personally can't get over it, so we're going to make your life a fucking hell" movements.
We were also told they were united by their belief that "the world had ended"... but I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean exactly. "Don't waste your breath"? So, er, the idea is that it's "all over", and everything is futile, now? Wouldn't that also include "joining a cult"?
No, 2% of the world's population doesn't disappear all the time.
I think the idea that Priests turn crackers into the literal flesh of a 2000 year old dead person is insane. Doesn't mean others don't believe it, even people not born into that faith. Their beliefs not being logical matters very little, especially in a world where all of the laws of reality were thrown out the window in such a massive way.
greendomo's ghost
Member
Man this show just keeps hitting all the marks. And some great music choices as always.
I really hope they renew it for another season.
I really hope they renew it for another season.
We were talking about grief. Those people are suffering over the loss of their loved ones, yes? That's not something new or unique to the show's premise.
Now, there would certainly be something to say about the supernatural aspect of that disappearance, how it hints at the existence of some intelligence with god-like powers that's apparently interested in human beings specifically, but the show simply doesn't go there, and the Guilty Remnants didn't build some kind of mythology over that.
They don't even have beliefs. Except maybe, as I said above, "the world has ended", but then why even join a cult? Why take part in those pranks? I could maybe buy it if there was something to frame those actions, but the show makes it a point that there's nothing there. Just gratuitous assholes who conveniently generate cheap drama.
Of course it's unique. Not all grief is the same, and not everyone deals with it in the same way. What happened to all of these people is brand new, unexplained, and basically unbelievable. It's obvious that some people would react to this unprecedented event in unprecedented ways
Aside from the supernatural aspect, not really, no. Natural catastrophes?
And yet: the Guilty Remnants. Lots of people dealing with their grief in that one weird way. For some reason.
Again, yes, the supernatural / unexplained aspect should matter, but the Guilty Remnants don't have a mythology, don't offer explanations.
So no, I'm still not seeing how the Guilty Remnants are a thing, in that universe.
Yes they do: the world ended. That's all that needs to be said for these people.
Now I don't think that's logical at all, but basically all religions or cults are illogical. The GR gives something to the people in it, just because we think it's crazy doses't mean it wouldn't appeal to others.
And for the third time: why even join a cult, then? Why those pranks?
They have their own internal logic, at least.
You'd think so, for such a group to exist, but I still don't see what that would be.
Details! Megan just wants to blow things up or whatever.
Because these people are mad, sad, and acting illogically. Like humans often do when confronted with the unknown.
Infernostew
Member
It's not worth it man...
"Something super weird happened, so anything goes from now on."
Really convenient for lazy writers, sure, but...
At least, I'm talking about the show.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Dammit.
I noticed this article from the fargo thread, they also speak highly of Leftovers, so critics seem to like it.
You really are ridiculous, you seem to have all the answers about human reactions when dealing with a supernatural phenominon.
Please explain your "correct" way to write these characters as well as your blueprint of human beings that allows you to confidently state you know how all people would react.
What, because I don't buy the writers' lazy take on the matter, really?
But if you want to see how people deal with unexplained phenomenons, you have centuries of mythologies and religions. It would certainly make sense, in the wake of the sudden departure, for new religions to emerge. But the writers came up with the super minimalist (simplist) Guilty Remnants, and no, I don't buy it, for the reasons I detailed above already.
Yeah but your posts are so lazily written...
On topic: That Vulture article was pretty great though. I didn't expect this season to get so much love from critics but hopefully it helps us get a third.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Fargo, The Leftovers, and You're the Worst. A damn fine trio of 2nd season television. What a great time.
Whelp, that's some guilty remnant shit there.
ThLunarian
Member
I think Patti was very different from Meg. Underneath all her blustering, Patti was a scared and insecure little girl (I choose to believe that Kevin's trip through purgatory was legit and that Ghost Patti was real).
Meg seems much more like a stone cold psychopath who wants to watch the world burn for no good reason. She's using the Guilty Remnant for that exact purpose, IMO. I bet she hardly cared that her mother died.
I hope Kevin is the hero that somehow rises from the ashes and foils Meg's plans.
Who killed herself right in front of the protagonist just to fuck with him.
And then came back to troll/haunt him.
ThLunarian
Member
She killed herself because she hated herself. Fucking with Kevin was just the excuse she used to maintain the facade.