Fenderputty
Banned
Ah, I see Erigu has come to shit on this show just like LOST.
Last night's episode was amazing. A masterclass of TV.
He's the biggest antagonist the series knows. He's worse than the Guilty Remnant.
Ah, I see Erigu has come to shit on this show just like LOST.
Last night's episode was amazing. A masterclass of TV.
Nora isnt gonna die? We saw her in the future?
Anyone have a link to a fan theory of what really could be going on? Reason I ask is I have a small daughter and even though I watch every week it's easy to get distracted with her wanting daddy time. I don't have the time to really concentrate like I did on the past like a show like lost where I picked up every little detail lol.
I'd like to go into the last two episodes really primed with a better understanding.
That's a super vague question. If you're asking about a theory for why the departure happened, that's never getting answered.
If that's not your question, then what are you asking?
Theory might not have been the right word. Recaps maybe? Grantland used too and the Ringer now does weekly recaps on Game of Thrones that really help connect the dots and discuss the story lines in depth. Didn't know if anything like that existed for this that is any good.
Alan Sepinwall and AVClub do reviews of each episode. They tend to focus on the deeper below the surface stuff, though, and may not be the best if you're just looking for a summary of events. If that's what you want, maybe Wikipedia?
Sorry, but I'm not sure how that qualifies as an explanation...Just watched it again, I think thething is sort of justified or at least explained when she's talking aboutLaurieJudas and Michael interrupts her and tells her that Judas killed himself and he's not really sure why he did it.
I love the show but I wasn't impressed by the last episode.
I don't understand the reasons for the suicide.
Kevin is going to be busy when he dies. Gotta learn the song, gotta give the message to Evie, gotta...Laurie? What are you doing here???
You forgot his most important mission....figuring out where the fuck those kids shoes went.
Maybe we will learn in one of the remaining episodes that Nora broke the machine, just like she did break the terminal at the airport and the barrier at the parking garage.
Look, man... As positive as the other posters in this thread are, even some of them mentioned they didn't quite see why she would suddenly kill herself.
The show seems to be saying "hey, look: she was suicidal 5 years back, so... that makes sense, right? she's still suicidal, simple as that"... and... yeah, it's just that between then and now, there was, like, the entire fucking show. She recently married John, for instance. Did none of that matter? Is that the idea, seriously? And as I pointed out, that's not limited to that character either.
"We're all gone."
What? How does that even...
"You understand."
Oh, fuck off, show.
We're apparently back to the Guilty Remnant rhetoric of "nothing matters", and once again, the only reason we're given is that "people are broken because of the Departure, because those who disappeared aren't known to be dead, so there's no closure".
Therefore: Magic Grief! People join the Guilty Remnants, dogs go feral, etc.
"Hey, who's to say how people would react, after all? It's science fiction! The Departure isn't real! And we decided that, yeah, they'd all be broken, decide that nothing matters, Guilty Remnants, feral, etc."
Of course, mass grief and missing persons (as well as combinations of those two) are a thing in the real world, but hey. Trying to ground all that (or to explore what would actually set an event like the Departure apart) sounds like a lot of work, when you could just take the lazy route and use Magic Grief as a justification for some cheap, forced drama instead.
But why now? If the issue is her finding out about John believing in that "book of Kevin" thing (although he said himself he was willing to let go of that if she just asked), why not just leave him?As MegaSackman said earlier, I think it's more that Laurie feels she isn't in a world that belongs to her anymore. She had the answers as a therapist, then the rapture happened and she didn't, joined the Guilty Remnant for answers, didn't really find any, and then went into a world of exploiting those that want answers. So now she's surrounded by people that want answers, and she believes there never can be an answer. She found her closure, and her speaking with Kevin at the end of the episode was the ultimate closure. They shared their little secrets, and are ready to depart themselves.
I'm sure her kids won't have any questions about how she died in a scuba diving accident on the 7th anniversary of the departure, right after they called her, and without even telling them she was in Australia, not even when her daughter asked... No mystery there, clearly.Dying while scuba diving gives her family the best closure she could offer. It's an accident. No one has to wonder. It's like the most normal fucking thing happening right now. Just a weird little accidental death you can grieve normally.
But why now? If the issue is her finding out about John believing in that "book of Kevin" thing (although he said himself he was willing to let go of that if she just asked), why not just leave him?
Well, that was some great timing, then.Because she was depressed, miserable, and confused for the entire run of the series, and finally ran out of willpower to keep fighting. I'm sure the thing with John was only a small part of that.
She had plenty of opportunities for doing all that for years though.It even makes narrative sense. Her depression was triggered by the departure, and things have only ramped up recently rather than getting better, making her depression worse. She received closure with her ex, and had a chance to hear her kids' voices one more time. She said goodbye to Nora.
I'd say she spectacularly failed on that front, actually. As you just said, "things have only ramped up recently", because, well, she actually waited until the very day of the anniversary! Just one more day, and things would have blown over considerably (or not, and it would have been the end of the world, so suicide or not... but it didn't look like she was a "believer").She manages to avoid all the madness that the 7th anniversary has the potential to bring.
She had plenty of opportunities for doing all that for years though.
That's... one hell of a claim. I remember she almost got her own daughter killed, back in season 1.Not only is this a thing that happens all the time in real life to real people, it also makes narrative sense. At no other point in the story would it have ever made as much sense for her to end it as it does now.
It's that it only seems to happen because the series is ending.Is your complaint that it should have happened sooner, or that it shouldn't have happened at all?
That's... one hell of a claim. I remember she almost got her own daughter killed, back in season 1.
It's that it only seems to happen because the series is ending.
(well, if it did happen, that is... I wouldn't put it past them to reveal she's fine after all!)
And now, she's done fighting. Because... she's done fighting? And there were no indications at all that she was at the end of her rope in the previous episodes, but never mind that?Yeah, and that was a wake up call for her to reevaluate her life choices and see if maybe there was something else she ought to try that didn't involve joining a cult. But at that point, she was still not done fighting. So, no suicide yet.
Well, I really don't know about "the best" (and I'm not entirely comfortable talking about "character arcs" when they barely seem to evolve), but killing characters off sure is an easy way to "resolve" plotlines...In a meta sense and a roundabout way, sure, it is because the series is ending. When a series ends, the writers try to wrap up character arcs. For Laurie, the best way to conclude her character arc was through suicide, and it makes sense based on everything she had been through and done up to now.
No idea what Nora's story was supposed to symbolize but Carrie Coon's there acting there was great.
And now, she's done fighting. Because... she's done fighting? And there were no indications at all that she was at the end of her rope in the previous episodes, but never mind that?
While I guess "looks like we've reached the end of our journey because, as it turns out, we're out of gas" might work in real life, I'd expect a bit more from a story, and I just don't see much of anything to justify that development, here. Aside from, again, the show nearing its end.
While I'd sympathize with anybody living in a world written by Lindelof and trying to find meaning in it ("they can't heal because they're dealing with an entirely new kind of grief, a magical Super Grief!")... do her children not count, then?She was trying to find meaning in this crazy, foreign world by helping people heal and return to normalcy. The seven year anniversary has led to everyone around her getting worse and acting crazier (in her worldview), rather than getting better.
Do her children not count, then?
While I'd sympathize with anybody living in a world written by Lindelof and trying to find meaning in it ("they can't heal because they're dealing with an entirely new kind of grief, a magical Super Grief!")... do her children not count, then?
Well, simply going by what the writers had happen in the end, I guess it clearly wasn't, no...Yes, her kids were a bright spot in her world, but that fact wasn't enough for her to stick around.
Again, lots of crazy shit happen all the time in real life, but that doesn't mean it all makes for a good story.Again, it happens in real life too
I don't know about that one, really.and it's also not narratively inconsistent.
I know, but see above: this is a story. I would be a lot more accepting of that development if the writers had done some actual work to get us to this point.People with children are not immune to suicide or suicidal thoughts.
Well, simply going by what the writers had happen in the end, I guess it clearly wasn't, no...
Again, lots of crazy shit happen all the time in real life, but that doesn't mean it all makes for a good story.
I don't know about that one, really.
That episode sure laid it thick when it comes to showing that she didn't care about anything anymore ("oh, you want to kill my ex-husband? okay, then. no, go ahead, John, really! that should be good for you... last week, I was all about helping, but on second thought, fuck that"), but one would have expected something before that, some signs that she was in agonizing pain, that she was likely to relapse into a Guilty Remnant-esque worldview, and I didn't see anything.
Instead, I get the feeling the writers thought they could get away with such a sudden development simply by showing a flashback of her attempting suicide before the show even began, and singing about suicide during the opening credits. "It doesn't really come out of nowhere, now, right?"
Also, assuming she did kill herself, I wonder what the writers' thought process was when they decided to add that phone call in the final scene. "Oh, it'll be such a gut punch when viewers will think "hey, that's right: her kids!", but she ends up killing herself anyway! Boom!"? I know some people do kill themselves and leave confused children behind, but the writers haven't done nearly enough to establish their character's agony to go there, so that phone call? Crass.
As ridiculously manipulative as that scene would end up being in retrospect if she turned out to be alive for yet another slapdash "family is everything!" season finale - and boy, that would be something alright -, it would still make a tiny bit more sense to me to have the character change her mind because of that unexpected phone call. Maybe I'm too old school for Lindelof's style.
I know, but see above: this is a story. I would be a lot more accepting of that development if the writers had done some actual work to get us to this point.
I don't imagine that will surprise you, but I can't think of much right now, frankly...We all know what you don't like about The Leftovers, but as we're nearing the closure of this show, I thought it'd be cool to hear what you DO like. Can you share some positives thoughts you've had on the show?
You forgot his most important mission....figuring out where the fuck those kids shoes went.
I don't imagine that will surprise you, but I can't think of much right now, frankly...
Recently, I thought the "God" character from last week was amusing, and that last scene between him and Matt had some good moments, so I guess there's that? As with Lost, I find that there may be some moments, some bits that are "alright", or even "good" on their own, but they tend to fall apart when you start considering the overall context / rest of the show...
Maybe she didn't get closure with John, but overall it was a good note for her to go out on.
People with children are not immune to suicide or suicidal thoughts.
I don't think that phone call really even happened. The fantastical nature of it I think was intentional. Jill calls her right at that moment and is with Tom and they are super happy and laughing and just calling to find out about a show they watched as a kid. Also the way boat captain was like "Hey! You ready?" And she looked like she was day dreaming. Is fantasizing about someone calling you before you do it something thats reported from suicide survivors?
This might be the case, but she still would have experienced the event.
Prior to that, she gave Jill's lighter away so she was clearly trying to separate herself from her kids as she was leaving. The phone call was a reminder just before she was about to go into the water.
Yeah the message the show is sending right now is making me super uncomfortable (probably is the point), but I'm guessing that the next two episodes are going to recontextulize this one a little bit.
I've seen a couple posters say stuff about her reason is that the world just isn't for her anymore, everyone around her is going crazy, etc. but depressed and suicidal people feel like that in real life without 2 percent of people vanishing so that's not a valid reason for suicide as there is no valid reason.
Those post also made me think about in International assassin, patti says to Kevin, "On the 14th it became comically abuntly clear that anyone o can be taken away at any time." Something that is also already true without 2 percent of people vanashing.
I didn't quite say that. The problem is that the show did show us that she had kids, that she had recently re-married, that she had a new life in Jarden, and did nothing to show us that she was at the end of her rope until, well, she killed herself this week. That's a bit of a problem. Kind of a hard sell, if you will, storytelling-wise.This idea that her kids, her new marriage, or anything else would just cure Laurie is just kind of ignorant about mental illness.
Well, she seemed to be doing okay until this week, at least...everything Laurie goes through is a series of attempts to find coping mechanisms (clearly she'd lost faith in medical solutions, considering)... and she didn't.
I never really know what to answer to that, as I like a whole bunch of stuff, actually, believe it or not! Plus, I generally find myself unable to grade these things. Depends on the mood of the moment, really.Can I ask what your favorite shows/movies are?
I even felt bad for that guy on the boat. No, I'm not convinced that's the best suicide method, Nora. That seems about as "good" as jumping in front of a train. Could be an accident, definitely will fuck with the driver.Dat phone call at the end with her Children did not make it a good note to go out on. It was a reminder that she's leaving people behind and that her possible death was wholly selfish.
I don't imagine that will surprise you, but I can't think of much right now, frankly...
Recently, I thought the "God" character from last week was amusing, and that last scene between him and Matt had some good moments, so I guess there's that? As with Lost, I find that there may be some moments, some bits that are "alright", or even "good" on their own, but they tend to fall apart when you start considering the overall context / rest of the show...
I even felt bad for that guy on the boat. No, I'm not convinced that's the best suicide method, Nora. That seems about as "good" as jumping in front of a train. Could be an accident, definitely will fuck with the driver.