Support NeoGAF

[strange headache]

Made that for the Terminator thread, though I'd also share it here:

Spoiler

Also Ralph is making a review of season 8. His reviews are usually pretty insightful and funny:

 

[Rentahamster]

But that's not what these people do, which is my very point. They step beyond criticism into fanfiction.

What was fanfictiony about the last two videos?

Follow the conversation

I've more time for the likes of him, or say Andy Greenwald from the Ringer, because they're judging a show on its merits as a show, not on whether it failed to live up to the speculative fiction in their heads.

It seems I was following the conversation.

This seems to be a distinction you struggle with.

Apparently not lol.

 

[Kadayi]

Apparently not lol.

If your attempts to concoct some sort of argument are reduced to pinching a line here and line there to weave some fiction of your own devising there's not much hope for you. I've been pretty clear in what I was addressing and what I was not. I suggest you move on, lest moderation has to be invoked. because:

^ this gets real boring after a while

 

[lifa-cobex]

 

[Rentahamster]

If your attempts to concoct some sort of argument are reduced to pinching a line here and line there to weave some fiction of your own devising there's not much hope for you. I've been pretty clear in what I was addressing and what I was not. I suggest you move on, lest moderation has to be invoked. because:

^ this gets real boring after a while

Well, if by now you can't see the difference in criticizing character driven plot VS plot driven characters and why some of us prefer one over the other, then I'm not sure any amount of anime gifs or "mods halp" is going to make your point stick.

 

[Javthusiast]

(removed)

 

[Kadayi]

Well, if by now you can't see the difference in criticizing character driven plot VS plot driven characters and why some of us prefer one over the other, then I'm not sure any amount of anime gifs or "mods halp" is going to make your point stick.

LOL. legitimate criticism needs to be tempered and reasoned, and unfortunately, with most of these youtube videos, it's not. It's more a case of 'this was terrible and I'm going to tell you why at length' baby out with the bathwater fanfic. There's nothing constructive to in terms of what is being said because it is more often than not an impotent wail trying to masquerade as a voice. If you're assessing anything, you have to assess on what is versus what it is not, and in this regard more often than not people fall down consistently.

 

[Saruhashi]

LOL. legitimate criticism needs to be tempered and reasoned, and unfortunately, with most of these youtube videos, it's not. It's more a case of 'this was terrible and I'm going to tell you why at length' baby out with the bathwater fanfic. There's nothing constructive to in terms of what is being said because it is more often than not an impotent wail trying to masquerade as a voice. If you're assessing anything, you have to assess on what is versus what it is not, and in this regard more often than not people fall down consistently.

Then at worst you can say "they aren't real critics". That's all though.

If someone is saying "I would have preferred X instead of Y" as opposed to "here are the issues with Y" then sure maybe it's not technically tempered and reasoned criticism.

However, it doesn't mean they don't have a right to that opinion and a right to share it and others are able to say "actually, yeah, maybe X would have been better".

While it may not be constructive it can still be entertaining and/or interesting.

I don't see the issue here.
I don't get why, after all these years of YouTube being a thing, people still get salty that randomers online can record their ramblings and make money out of it.

 

[Kadayi]

I don't get why, after all these years of YouTube being a thing, people still get salty that randomers online can record their ramblings and make money out of it.

Whose being salty? People are free to make money whatever way they want to, however, that they do doesn't mean I have to give than any credence if I think the content doesn't hold up to scrutiny, or when I feel in many ways it's bandwagoning at its worst.

 

[Jon Neu]

But that's not what these people do, which is my very point. They step beyond criticism into fanfiction.

But the fact that they step into how they would have done it, doesn't invalidate the criticism.

 

[Ownage]

The ending ... Animal House style.

 

[Kadayi]

But the fact that they step into how they would have done it, doesn't invalidate the criticism.

But they're not. They're not trying to lose better, they're trying to win the battle. I'm all for taking the show to task in term of stuff like Jaime, Brienne etc all fighting in the courtyard versus from a better vantage point (that would make sense) but when you're looking for ways to basically stall the army of the dead, you're at odds with how events need to play out within the episode.

 

[Jon Neu]

But they're not. They're not trying to lose better, they're trying to win the battle.

But that's not true at all, most youtubers I have watched thought "the allies" were going to lose the battle of Winterfell and the few survivors were going to retreat to the Iron Islands.

 

[Kadayi]

But that's not true at all, most youtubers I have watched thought "the allies" were going to lose the battle of Winterfell and the few survivors were going to retreat to the Iron Islands.

Pretty sure I'm talking about the ones trying to win the battle (some of which have been posted in this thread). As regarding losing and retreating ....what were they smoking? If Winterfell was lost and the Night King wasn't defeated it would have game-over for the rest of Westeros, and a few dozen survivors on the Iron Islands alone wouldn't alter that. They always had to defeat the Night King at Winterfell.

 

[Jon Neu]

Pretty sure I'm talking about the ones trying to win the battle (some of which have been posted in this thread). As regarding losing and retreating ....what were they smoking? If Winterfell was lost and the Night King wasn't defeated it would have game-over for the rest of Westeros, and a few dozen survivors on the Iron Islands alone wouldn't alter that. They always had to defeat the Night King at Winterfell.

So you complain that those youtubers don't get it because they are trying to win the battle... while claiming the battle should have always ended in victory or anything else doesn't make sense.

I don't know man, you are making less and less sense.

And the retreat to Winterfell was hinted by the show when Yara told Theon that they were going to retake the Iron Islands in case Dany needs a retreat of the battle. But yeah, nobody was expecting flying Arya to win the battle. Expectations subverted.

 

[Rentahamster]

But that's not what these people do, which is my very point. They step beyond criticism into fanfiction.

What was fanfictiony about the last two videos?

Follow the conversation

I've more time for the likes of him, or say Andy Greenwald from the Ringer, because they're judging a show on its merits as a show, not on whether it failed to live up to the speculative fiction in their heads.

It seems I was following the conversation.

If your attempts to concoct some sort of argument are reduced to pinching a line here and line there to weave some fiction of your own devising there's not much hope for you. I've been pretty clear in what I was addressing and what I was not.

It's more a case of 'this was terrible and I'm going to tell you why at length' baby out with the bathwater fanfic.

Hm, this keeps popping up. Perhaps I am better at picking up themes in your own words that you are not aware of. Themes like creating an imaginary strawman argument in your head and applying that to every criticism, and not bothering to examine other examples of criticism that I cite so that you can maintain this internal narrative in your head and not feel like it's being challenged.

Feel free to rebut with more animu gifs though, uguuu.

 

[Kadayi]

So you complain that those youtubers don't get it because they are trying to win the battle... while claiming the battle should have always ended in victory or anything else doesn't make sense.

You're conflating the battle with the war. The battle of Winterfell was lost, as it needed to be in order for the Night king to confront Bran in the Godswood. The war, however, was won when Arya killed the night king in the Godswood. If they had to retreat it's hard to envisage them getting Bran up onto one of the Dragons, let alone flying him to the Iron Islands. Therefore it was never really a goer, in terms of an option. The War was always going to end at Winterfell.


Rentahamster

It's surprisingly simple really. I'm talking about the colour orange, and you keep going 'but what about mauve?'

 

[Jon Neu]

You're conflating the battle with the war.

lol

 

[Rentahamster]

It's surprisingly simple really. I'm talking about the colour orange, and you keep going 'but what about mauve?'

Perhaps you should keep your orange talk consistent.

 

[Kadayi]

lol

I know it's hard to fathom, but they are distinct things.

Perhaps you should keep your orange talk consistent.

Pretty sure I've maintained that if you're trying to win the battle of Winterfell you're doing it wrong ever since episode 4.

 

[Rentahamster]

Pretty sure I've maintained that if you're trying to win the battle of Winterfell you're doing it wrong ever since episode 4.

Pretty sure you keep using your fanfic argument as a means to not bother engaging on any other points people bring up.

 

[Jon Neu]

I know it's hard to fathom, but they are distinct things.

Not only doesn't matter, but you are moving the goal posts just to not accept that you are wrong and that I got you in a big case of incoherence.

But is ok, you are just spending too much time here defending the show against everything.

 

[Kadayi]

Not only doesn't matter, but you are moving the goal posts just to not accept that you are wrong and that I got you in a big case of incoherence.

Of course, it matters. Hardholme was a battle against the dead and the living lost. It was one step in a war that humanity has been losing for a long time beyond the wall. Winterfell was all but lost from a strategic viewpoint as a battle given the castle was breached and overrun by the dead. It was only when Arya came through at the end and killed the Night king that the actual war itself was won.

Pretty sure you keep using your fanfic argument as a means to not bother engaging on any other points people bring up.

What points? The only discussion I've been having today is about the Battle of Winterfell, and if you're making videos/arguments trying to win it rather than accept that it was always going to lead to a particular outcome then you're basically engaging in fanfic without regard to how the story plays out. I haven't commented directly on any other videos.

 

[Jon Neu]

Old but gold.

 

[PlaneRab]

Winter is coming guys

 

[_Starscream_]

The only review that matters:

 

[Jon Neu]

The only review that matters:

"well, to be fair this is a much bigger joke".

Oh boy, dis gon b gud.

 

[Rentahamster]

Lol at those try hard youtube channels now jumping on the hate bandon wagon to keep clicks going. Because the series is over.

Don't really understand this attitude at all.

Because more often than not a lot of this youtube stuff is outrage clicks catering towards an audience for money. Bashing Thrones is a guarantee of traffic.

Ain't no one got time for watching nerds endlessly sperg the fuck out because the show didn't go their way Danyboy.

The Boiled Leather dude is a lot better versed in ASOIAF lore and way less inclined to run to hyperbole because he's a seasoned Film & Television Critic. I've more time for the likes of him, or say Andy Greenwald from the Ringer, because they're judging a show on its merits as a show, not on whether it failed to live up to the speculative fiction in their heads.

legitimate criticism needs to be tempered and reasoned, and unfortunately, with most of these youtube videos, it's not.

What points? The only discussion I've been having today is about the Battle of Winterfell, and if you're making videos/arguments trying to win it rather than accept that it was always going to lead to a particular outcome then you're basically engaging in fanfic without regard to how the story plays out. I haven't commented directly on any other videos.

No, the discussion at hand is about critiques of the writing in general, you just made that one point about Winterfell and keep trying to apply it to everything because you don't bother acknowledging anything else.

Ain't no one got time for watching nerds endlessly sperg the fuck out because the show didn't go their way Danyboy.

I haven't commented directly on any other videos.

Not really, you prefer to express yourself by not reading or watching any of the cited material.

Ain't no one got time for watching nerds endlessly sperg the fuck out because the show didn't go their way Danyboy.

 

[EviLore]

Kadayi Rentahamster

Deescalation. Thanks.

 

[Kadayi]

you just made that one point about Winterfell.

Because that's the conversation I'm interested in, as a case in point of a greater issue. (when criticism turns into fanfic) There's no obligation as a poster to watch every video posted in this thread or to respond to them., as you seem to believe. I've watched enough stuff like that in my youtube feed already. I find it all very much of a muchness. at this point in time. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend. tbh.

 

[Rentahamster]

The only review that matters:

lmao the ending. That was gold.

 

[Jon Neu]

The only review that matters:

I wish I could like this more than once. Fucking Preston.

 

[Kadayi]

An interesting look at various characters in the show from a Psychological perspective: -

The Psychology of ‘Game of Thrones’: Arya Stark

Fandom's consulting psychologist looks at what drives the actions of Arya Stark, who honed herself into one of Westeros' most dangerous fighters.

www.fandom.com

 

[MetalAlien]

 

[Halo is Back]

Lol at those try hard youtube channels now jumping on the hate bandon wagon to keep clicks going. Because the series is over.

Gotta be edgy or go wellfare i guess.

Right because there is no legit criticism

 

[MMaRsu]

There is legit criticism and there is nitpicking and there are also plenty of channels trying to get clicks

 

[Kadayi]

Interesting video at Emergency Awesome about alternative story beats to the season and how things might have played out, especially when it came to Ser Jorah: -



Personally, I'm kind of ok with how it went but mayhap if the production time was longer overall they could have pulled off the alternative.

 

[Jon Neu]

There is legit criticism and there is nitpicking and there are also plenty of channels trying to get clicks

And there is also nitpicking of criticism, ironically.

No, this criticism is not valid because they are offering an alternative view! And also the person is a youtuber! Now let me post this youtuber to whom I agree.

Funny as fuck.

 

[MetalAlien]

The ending we deserved!

 

[Eotheod]

The season wasn't 2/10 worthy but it wasn't exactly well done writing-wise. A lot of it felt rushed, sealing quite large and cinematic arcs into one whole episode compared to previous seasons where that would be spread across two or three. Situations like the Battle of Winterfell episode spent half the episode doing nothing of the sort that pushed that story arc into its fruition, instead giving us this weird half battle attempt and sudden death of old mate to be cast to the side.

There was also a ton of inconsistency in location and time skipping. Suddenly you have all the Dothraki alive and a ridiculously large amount of Unsullied compared to during the Winterfell battle despite the clear showing of how quickly the Dothraki were slaughtered. Arya had a horse then that just disappeared and she was off walking to her designated area. No consideration on Daenerys' character choices and everyone just went "okay sounds cool!"

At least she finally learnt that the ballista are manned by humans and as such take a significant amount of work to shift quicker than a dragon flying around. Only took a dragon death to achieve that. Also those ships "surprising" them was so bad purely down to the fact that if you are sailing to the enemy's frontline would you not use your dragons to actually go high enough to scout? They are fucking ships, they aren't invisible.

 

[Jon Neu]

Even Charles Dance (the great Tywin Lannister) hates the ending.

You know it's bad when your own actors are dissapointed.

 

[Raynes]

Even Charles Dance (the great Tywin Lannister) hates the ending.

You know it's bad when your own actors are dissapointed.

I think some actors on the show have their head so far up their ass, they've turned it into being about themselves and have taken the criticisms personally e.g. Kit, Sophie and the actor who plays Grey Worm all crying about how much hard work they and everyone put in. Once they remove their heads from their ass they'd see we're actually with them, and see that all the hard work the team put in was wasted by two shit writers in a rush to move on. Those actors should turn their hatred on d&d not fans of the show, that makes no sense.

 

[Screamer-RSA]

Those actors should turn their hatred on d&d not fans of the show, that makes no sense.

Taking shots at fans always turns out well

 

[Rentahamster]

Damn, r/freefolk started a fundraiser that's raised almost 29,000 pounds for Emilia Clarke's charity.

 

[Jon Neu]

I never liked Emilia acting skills and Daenerys character was a bit inconsistent with some ups and downs.

But she seems like a very fun and loving person who was super excited and happy to play Dany while going literally through life and death. I'm happy for her, the Lord of Light bless her.

 

[Rentahamster]

I was watching a couple of clips of the battle at Hardhome on Youtube, and was reminded how cool the 1v1 battle with Jon and the WW was. I wish we could have had a few more of those at Winterfell.

 

[Geki-D]

So, euh, WTF was Bran doing warging into those crows during the battle of Winterfell? Did he just want to go for a joy ride in case he died, or did a scene get left on the cutting room floor but they left in the build up to it?

I feel like I shouldn't be asking questions about anything regarding the Night King anymore. Like it's best we forget the White Walkers were ever even a thing in this show to soften the blow of how poorly they were handled but the NK's mcguffin was made king.

Also, has anyone else noticed that Bran is always doing the Trump stank face?

Also also, why didn't anyone else want to go independant like the North? Especially Dorne and the Iron Islands? Isn't anyone else concerned with the clear conflict of interest of the North being allowed to break off whilst a Stark sits on the throne? Like, maybe if Dorne wanted to, Bran might be less cool with that seeing as no one from his family is ruling there? Even if Bran would have been cool, seeing as no one asked or even questioned the North's defection, aren't they gonna get home and think "Hey wait, was that just nepotism?" Did they only ever refer to Bran as "The broken" so that we might sort of forget that he is still actually Bran Stark, rightful lord of house Stark and the legitimate king of the now independent North?

 

[Silent Duck]

When Bran said "Why do you think I came all this way"? I interpreted it to have some darker undertones, in that he was secretly playing the game and willingly made moves to sow conflict between Jon and Dany, and that he knew this would lead to thousands of deaths in King's Landing but didn't give a fuck.

But actually nothing really happens. Ugh.

I thought exactly the same thing.
I kept on waiting for Bran to actually do something and when he said that I was thinking "here we go! He's not just sitting there for no reason, shits about to go down!"

Nope.

All hail, Bran "Crazy Legs" Stark! The first of his name. Lord of the Broken. Father of Ravens. And Protector of the seven... six?... Six kingdoms!

Also, D&D's original plan for the battle at Winterfell:

 

[MetalAlien]

 

[Tesseract]

all this talk about what went wrong

d&d delivered a 420 no scope battle between two greats