Game of Thrones Season 8 |OT| A Song of Icy and Fiery Fandom

Jon Neu said:
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I guess we are going to have strong independent children of the forest and non binary White Walkers.
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Krappadizzle said:
I guess the one silver lining in the ending is that we now don't have to argue about which was the better show on television. Breaking Bad still holds the throne.

Overall I'm just disappointed in how it played out. GoT really was something special for a long time and kinda fizzled into a wet fart.
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Hank Agrees:
 
ruvikx said:
It's a show about Dragons, tits, political intrigue & massive battles, with twists & "shocking" moments along the way with a Shakespearian undertone. When over a million people woke up (pun unintended) in the morning & turned on rage mode because the story didn't go where they wanted, I say Kit Harrington has a point. Those youtubers are also making a living out of fuelling the rage as well, ergo they have a vested interest in partaking in a pitchfork circlejerk.

I honestly (I'm saying this as politely as possible) find the people with the most intense obsession in crapping all over the recent GoT seasons very strange. It's just a fictional story. That's all. I've had my moneys worth again, again & again with GoT since 2011. It's by far my favorite TV/Cinema piece of entertainment set in a medieval heroic/dark fantasy universe. If someone thinks Sopranos & Breaking Bad are better, good for them. But I don't like social drama & crime shows, so GoT wins for me.
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Hey you say tomato I say lazy pointless writing. I agree with those youtube vultures.

 
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I want to see Macie Williams play Hannibal lector. She's got the eyes, facial expression, stance and eye brows down to a T.

If I could be arsed, i would do a comparison shot of Anthony Hopkins lector vs Macie Williams nutcase stance.
 
Rentahamster said:
When Bran said "Why do you think I came all this way"? I interpreted it to have some darker undertones, in that he was secretly playing the game and willingly made moves to sow conflict between Jon and Dany, and that he knew this would lead to thousands of deaths in King's Landing but didn't give a fuck.
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To expand on this, why didn't everyone at the council stand up and say, "Wait, hold on, what the fuck did you just say????" When Bran said that.
 
why do you think i came all this way could be taken one way or another it think, he left the big decision up to jon in telling his immediate family about his heritage
 
Doesn't it take like a month to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing in good weather? I thought "why do you think I came all this way" was just about the long trip to get all the way over there, which he may not have made if he didn't know why he had to be there.
 
They went Warhammer: End Times and you guys got pissed. :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:

They were like "fuck it Martin hasn't given us shit in years, what's this Warhammer: End Times all about?"

They straight up fucking copied it lol. :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
All things considering I think it was a good wrap up to the tv show. Like most shows with this sort of format, there are pacing issues, but that is sort of to be expected. There are very few that don't have pacing issues. Even some of all the time greats have it (The Wire, Breaking Bad). Pacing issues is different from writing issues. That the armies are in kings landing "right away" from the north, is not a writing issue. That is on the editors and directors for making the journey feel rushed. A hallmark of good visual storytelling in films and tv often revolves about conveying the passage of time in the story.

When it comes to the actual fates of many of the characters, I got a lot of vibes from Return of the King. The last episode had layered endings, where the fates of different characters stories are wrapped up. Brienne is writing the chronicles of Jamie in the end, sort of like how Frodo is finishing the story at the end of the Lord of the Rings. We see glimpses of these old familiar characters assisting in the rebuilding. It's a much warmer ending and probably less edgy than what could have otherwise happened.

But despite all of this, I think the characters stayed true to themselves. Grey Worm was probably the one character who I couldn't read very well. There is some pacing issues in the events after Jon kills Daneyers. We see on Tyrions beard that time has managed, but we don't understand if Grey Worm want revenge, compensation, honor restored or what it is. It makes sense to me that as a solider and the unsullied are mercenaries incapable of rule or enstating some sort of military dictatorship. Killing Denerys is probably cutting the head of the snake, but the show could have better at conveying that. Grey Worm was a sympathetic character that you liked- Noble and a good fighter, but when Missandre is assassinated, he sort of becomes a more one-dimensional killing machine. He didn't get his character arc flushed out. He didnt get revenge for Missandre, he didn't get a lot of grief, he got a moment of happiness when appointed the master of arms, but that is it. Besides him, I don't mind the wrap up for the other characters.

I think Jon should have died a long time ago (and not have been brought back from the dead), but all things considering since the show decided to make him the defacto hero- I don't mind his faith. I actually laughed at that, as he had gone through so much- only to end up at that damn wall. But that is who Jon is. He chronically heroic bordering on self-hatred. He reminds me of Jack from Lost. Good to a fault. Good to his own detriment. Jon saves the realm, but it's not like he gets out of all this with bitches, land and bling.

Bran - I liked it. I didn't expect him even though it had crossed my mind. And I liked that the north remained an independent kingdom and didnt join. I think logically it makes sense that a northern king wouldnt have a conflict of interest (with influence). Sort of like Bran abdicated his own power and prestige in the north in favor of ruling at Kings Landing. Sansa was great. She is a character who grew in a very well rounded way. From a useless girl to the early seasons to a proper queen at the end. Arya - Also good. No problems.
Tyrion is probably like Daenerys and Jon in that he should have died a long time ago, but what is GoT without Tyrion? He is just so good- And once again, while being captive by dickless mercenaries he still orchestrates a new monarchy-comittee based rule with his honey speeches. He was always the philosophical voice of reason. All the way back to the first episode where Jon and Tyrion meets and Jon is emo about being the bastard not allowed at the decision table and Tyrion going on about being a dwarf and turning your weakness into a strength.

In the end I don't dislike the ending at all. I am happy its over. It's the end of an era and now there is other stuff to watch and play. Saw the first episode of Chernobyl last night. Very nice!
 
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The show ending is making me want to read through the books again.

To the book readers in this thread - anyone read Fire and Blood or the Dunk and Egg books? Did you like them?
 
Dany's heel turn was rushed and poorly executed, I don't think anyone can argue against that.

The thing that really annoyed me was the trial/council scene though:

So many things that made no sense within the GoT universe.

After Robert died we ended up with the war of the five kings, with all these different motivations and greedy lords vying for power and taking advantage of the power vacuum

This time we have even more chaos with the land decimated from the battle at winterfell and the destruction of kings landing.

And all this chaos leads to...nothing.

Everyone just agrees with little argument that this weird kid from the north, who claims he can see everything, should rule over the7 kingdoms.

Oh no, the 6 kingdoms, because the North will never bow to...it's actual successor, the oldest living son of Eddard Stark? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

The Iron Islands and Dorne, 2 regions that are infamous for want of independence say nothing to this either, seemingly fine with another state being allowed to leave.

This is all wrapped up neatly in around 10 minutes, with dumb jokes inbetween.

Then we have a council scene where we have a maester who isn't actually a maester.

A kingsguard(?) who is still sworn to Sansa Stark.

A lowborn mercenary is now master of coin and lord paramount of the reach with seemingly no opposition from the lords of that region.

So much of it unravels at the slightest touch that it's genuinely infuriating.

For a show that was so great because of it's intricate plotlines and atmosphere of every action having consequences they really couldn't have done a worse ending.
 
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The Ice King was basically a copy of Von Carstein except without any character -_-

At least the Von Carstein's were interesting and had some personality. Martin is a hack.

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Luffytubby said:
I think Jon should have died a long time ago (and not have been brought back from the dead), but all things considering since the show decided to make him the defacto hero- I don't mind his faith. I actually laughed at that, as he had gone through so much- only to end up at that damn wall. But that is who Jon is. He chronically heroic bordering on self-hatred. He reminds me of Jack from Lost. Good to a fault. Good to his own detriment. Jon saves the realm, but it's not like he gets out of all this with bitches, land and bling.
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Good comparison. I can also see similarities between Locke and Tyrion, Jaime and Sawyer or Theon and Charlie.

The problem with Jon is that the romance with Dany is just so poorly executed is not believable at all. When he kills Dany, it should have been a super dramatic moment with an incredible sense of sacrifice, but instead is just meh. His relationship with Ygritte was good, it was relatable and you felt bad for him when she dies, but with Dany is just not believable and seems to come from a very egotistical place, which makes it far less relatable.
 
Eraroten said:
You know Bronn will fleece Westeros out of all the fucking money it got and run off to Essos.
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It does seem like a pretty stupid decision to put him in charge of the gold. I guess we missed a scene where he had some personal revelation after all the horrendous events and the loss of one of his only true friends in life. Maybe we could have seen his motives change if Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum weren't in a rush to make the next terrible Star Wars trilogy.
 
Grinchy said:
It does seem like a pretty stupid decision to put him in charge of the gold. I guess we missed a scene where he had some personal revelation after all the horrendous events and the loss of one of his only true friends in life. Maybe we could have seen his motives change if Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum weren't in a rush to make the next terrible Star Wars trilogy.
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I do remember this scene though.



Maybe he's learned a lesson or two since then...lol
 
I binged watched this and was able to focus more on the show than watching week to week. The dragon napalming Kings Landing was confounding, the whole city was cooking and overall I think the 6 episode finale delivered.

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You FINALLY get to the throne and don't even get to sit in it. It would have been pretty cool to see the realm ruled by a king and queen for a certain amount of time, that would of had the most lasting impact on the fanbase.

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I'll remind everyone if they milk this franchise and than next year we get season 9 it wouldn't change the inevitable, story book endings so I believe this was the smartest choice and I always loved short and sweet seasons that keeps me entertained scene to scene.
 
If you ask my opinion I think there should have been a council made up of all of the lords of Westeros that all go independent, seeing as the North Dorn and the Iron Islands all want their freedom. With that established the council would elect someone to check power of the other houses, a sort of a police power only serving to enforce law with all of the other houses requiring to contribute some of their forces to act if another house decides to wage war or control power.


(AKA like a midevil United Nations) Democracy would be too advanced amd new for them
 
Lol at those try hard youtube channels now jumping on the hate bandon wagon to keep clicks going. Because the series is over.

Gotta be edgy or go wellfare i guess.
 
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Kenpachii said:
Lol at those try hard youtube channels now jumping on the hate bandon wagon to keep clicks going. Because the series is over.

Gotta be edgy or go wellfare i guess.
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Don't really understand this attitude at all.

Years before we even had access to the internet my friends and I would watch movies or TV shows and spend ages talking about them and picking them apart.

Guess what? When someone went on a massive rant about something we found it entertaining and sometimes downright hilarious.

I don't see how it's "try hard" to do something that people have been doing probably since entertainment in front of a large audience has been a thing?
If the "rant" is funny enough or even if the ranter is simply passionate enough then I think there is additional entertainment value in that.

I wonder how people like yourself interact with movies then? Do you go and see a bad or disappointing movie with your friends or partner or whoever and then come out and say "lets never speak of it" because someone might think you are being "edgy".

We all went to see the 2nd Transformers movie as a group years ago and, to be honest, the post movie rants were probably the best thing about the whole experience. I see no issue with Youtubers trying to monetize that kind of experience for a larger audience.

Didn't realize the right thing to do is just shut the fuck up and not enjoy the post series fallout.

LOL at these try hard posters acting like they are so above it all.
 
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Saruhashi said:
Don't really understand this attitude at all
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Because more often than not a lot of this youtube stuff is outrage clicks catering towards an audience for money. Bashing Thrones is a guarantee of traffic.

Case in point all the youtube armchair generals mistakenly trying to Win the battle of Winterfell in the wake of episode 4. Wouldn't matter whether the Dothraki came from the front, left, side or out of a birthday cake, the story requires the Night King to be laid low in the Godswood at his apparent moment of triumph. These people can't see the wood for the trees. Does that mean the episodes beyond criticism? Not at all (there's plenty of aspects that could have been tweaked) but when your criticisms effectively no longer align with the narrative drive then you're essentially writing fan fiction.


Anyway, interesting piece from Sean T Collins of the Boiled Leather podcast regarding the Dany: -

www.vulture.com

The Tragedy of Daenerys Targaryen

No matter how Game of Thrones ends, the Dragon Queen’s downfall really hurts.
www.vulture.com www.vulture.com
 
Kadayi said:
Case in point all the youtube armchair generals mistakenly trying to Win the battle of Winterfell in the wake of episode 4. Wouldn't matter whether the Dothraki came from the front, left, side or out of a birthday cake, the story requires the Night King to be laid low in the Godswood at his apparent moment of triumph. These people can't see the wood for the trees. Does that mean the episodes beyond criticism? Not at all (there's plenty of aspects that could have been tweaked) but when your criticisms effectively no longer align with the narrative drive then you're essentially writing fan fiction.
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Dude, the tactics of the battle of Winterfell don't make any sense whatsoever. Justifying it by "the story requires the Night King to be at the Godswood" isn't a justification in itself. You can write a battle that makes sense and ends up with the Night King at the Godswood instead of one that doesn't make any sense, in fact that would benefit the impact of the Night King at the Godswood.

When the narrative drive is accompanied with beyond dumb behaviours, dialogues and plots, you are in fact damaging the narrative drive. And that's one of the worst problems of the series in the last two seasons, they wanted to advance the plot without any regard to the coherence of the world or the characters.
 
Jon Neu said:
You can write a battle that makes sense and ends up with the Night King at the Godswood instead of one that doesn't make any sense, in fact that would benefit the impact of the Night King at the Godswood..
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But that's not what these people do, which is my very point. They step beyond criticism into fanfiction.
 
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Rentahamster said:
r were you no longer part of the conversation even though you responded to the criticism of the criticism of the last two videos?
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I'm talking with Jon Neu about the Winterfell battle stuff. I'm not sure why you think I give a damn about whatever BS videos you've been posting tbh. Ain't no one got time for watching nerds endlessly sperg the fuck out because the show didn't go their way Danyboy.

Secret_Lover said:
So which is better Vikings or Last Kingdom?
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I'd go with The Last Kingdom. Vikings is a little uneven and if you think GOT has plot armour, you ain't seen anything. On the flipside 'Lagatha' but I'd put Vikings very much in the Guilty Pleasure TV camp more than anything else.
 
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Kadayi said:
Because more often than not a lot of this youtube stuff is outrage clicks catering towards an audience for money. Bashing Thrones is a guarantee of traffic.

Case in point all the youtube armchair generals mistakenly trying to Win the battle of Winterfell in the wake of episode 4. Wouldn't matter whether the Dothraki came from the front, left, side or out of a birthday cake, the story requires the Night King to be laid low in the Godswood at his apparent moment of triumph. These people can't see the wood for the trees. Does that mean the episodes beyond criticism? Not at all (there's plenty of aspects that could have been tweaked) but when your criticisms effectively no longer align with the narrative drive then you're essentially writing fan fiction.


Anyway, interesting piece from Sean T Collins of the Boiled Leather podcast regarding the Dany: -

www.vulture.com

The Tragedy of Daenerys Targaryen

No matter how Game of Thrones ends, the Dragon Queen’s downfall really hurts.
www.vulture.com www.vulture.com
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Isn't that part of the fun though? Especially with these kind of shows that the internet spends years discussing?
Like who cares if some people think they have a better idea of how the battle should have been fought?
Seems harmless to me.

I get that a lot of these Youtubers are annoying as fuck but just say that.
It's a bit pointless to attack their character or whatever as this does not invalidate their points.

Sure, bashing GOT is a guarantee of traffic but only because so many people feel that the final season was bad.
The debate itself is entertaining. You should welcome more videos and more points of view.

The main "Winterfell Tactics" one I saw was from a dude called Shadiversity.


600k views is not bad!

Looking through his videos though the guy is pretty focused on historical weapons and tactics etc.

He did a "are the castles in Game of Thrones realistic" video about 2 years ago with a million views so I don't see what the big deal is if he is revisiting similar content nowadays? 3 years ago he had "how I feel medieval fantasy/drama should be done".

OK, maybe people just need to "get over it" but on the other hand you are really asking people to shut the fuck up about a show they have probably been watching for years just because it didn't deliver a satisfying conclusion?

The internet has been discussing this show since it kicked off. Probably people were even discussing the books before that. It's not just 1 or 2 people in the conversation either. Talking about GoT has been widespread for almost 10 years now. You can't expect people to just stop the day after the show ends and you can't expect them to just shut up because things went bad or they didn't agree with what happened.

So what if some of it borders on fan fiction? Usually that's one of the things people will do. Say that they don't like the choice that was made and maybe offer up something different or better.
 
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Saruhashi said:
Isn't that part of the fun though? .
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I don't view fanfic as criticism. If you're trying to win a battle that is going to be lost, you're missing the point. 600K views by people too dumb to understand that it was always going to end in the Godswood, is not an endorsement, it's an embarrassment.

This stuff has been done to death already pages back. I see little need to go over it again.
 
Kadayi said:
I'm talking with Jon Neu about the Winterfell battle stuff. I'm not sure why you think I give a damn about whatever BS videos you've been posting tbh. Ain't no one got time for watching nerds endlessly sperg the fuck out because the show didn't go their way Danyboy.
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Because you made a criticism about money grubbing youtubers, but if you can't take the time to listen to the criticisms you disagree with, it's no surprise you have such an uninformed characterization of what you think you're arguing against.

It's actually not all that different than the piece you cited from boiled leather dude. But whose got time for critical thinking when we can we can just dismiss any sort of disagreeable opinion as "Danyboy" and think we're the apex of literary criticism.
 
Rentahamster said:
Because you made a criticism about money grubbing youtubers, but if you can't take the time to listen to the criticisms you disagree with, it's no surprise you have such an uninformed characterization of what you think you're arguing against.
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Please, I've watched enough of these sorts of nerd rage videos already to get the gist. You might enjoy reaching for the tissues with every new one you unearth, but that's your prerogative.

It's actually not all that different than the piece you cited from boiled leather dude. But whose got time for critical thinking when we can we can just dismiss any sort of disagreeable opinion as "Danyboy" and think we're the apex of literary criticism
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The Boiled Leather dude is a lot better versed in ASOIAF lore and way less inclined to run to hyperbole because he's a seasoned Film & Television Critic. I've more time for the likes of him, or say Andy Greenwald from the Ringer, because they're judging a show on its merits as a show, not on whether it failed to live up to the speculative fiction in their heads. This seems to be a distinction you struggle with.
 
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