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The Legend of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki |OT| The Empire Strikes Back

O

omgfloofy

Banned
encephalon said:
I briefly entertained that thought before dismissing it. But then again, who knows.
Perhaps the power to "bring back the dead" will come up later? Perhaps not literally, but as some sort of "illusion?"
We'll almost certainly see her in the next game and we'll have our answers. Or at least 1/4 of them.
Click to expand...

In 3rd, Kevin's confirmed that the first statement in your spoilered section is possible.

Sora no Kiseki the 3rd Spoilers:
Salt Paling Memory Door- one of the reasons that Kevin made the weapon is because "resurrection becomes impossible."

So I've not discounted that.
I've also not 100% discounted any characters said to be dead.
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
Jeezus. Playing this game is making me feel physically ill.

Final chapter spoilers. Not finished with the game. School Festival. Ao no Kiseki spoilers.

This whole happy-go-lucky school festival arc is tearing me to shreds, especially following the fight with WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING in the final floor of the school building.

Yaaay cool, the day is saved and GIANT FUCKING ROBOT UNDER THE SCHOOL WHAT.

To make matters worse, everything is clearly building toward Crossbell exploding, and NOBODY is taking it seriously because there's no way the Empire could lose to that tiny ass city state. Meanwhile, Toval and Sara find out that Arios is leading Crossbell's defense force, which shoots the flag up for them.

And then we find out that Neithardt is currently stationed at the fortress because Elliot's dad wanted to go check out the festival. REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PLACE IN AO? IT GETS ERASED FROM EXISTENCE.

And yet here we are, happy as can be as the clock keeps ticking down.

I'm going crazy.
 
E

encephalon

Member
omgfloofy said:
In 3rd, Kevin's confirmed that the first statement in your spoilered section is possible.

Sora no Kiseki the 3rd Spoilers:
Salt Paling Memory Door- one of the reasons that Kevin made the weapon is because "resurrection becomes impossible."

So I've not discounted that.
I've also not 100% discounted any characters said to be dead.
Click to expand...

I'll have to go back and read through that again when I get the PS3 ver. 3rd is interesting in its sense of possibilities it opens up for the series and I have to say I really respect the way Falcom
had it tie into オーリオール
. The comparisons between 3rd and
the dungeon underneath the old schoolhouse
have me excited for Ch. 6 as well ...
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Yo! That discrepancy in Chapter 5. I knew I wasn't seeing things so I went back and checked. I was right. =o
 
E

encephalon

Member
Simultaneously excited, simultaneously somewhat perturbed. Those are my feelings upon entering my the
castle
and I think they will somewhat mirror my final feelings on this game.
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
encephalon said:
Simultaneously excited, simultaneously annoyed. Those are my feelings upon entering my the
castle
and I think they will somewhat mirror my final feelings on this game.
Click to expand...

Oh god, you're still in chapter 5 huh?

OTL

In other news, ch 7 Sen spoilers:
So the orb disappeared after they sort of took down Loa Erebonius, but where the hell did it go? What the hell was Erebonius to begin with? What the hell was that huge field of swords and spears? What power did it bestow on them? Why was it primarily responding to Rean? Goddamn.

The wait for the sequel is gonna be painful. I can see it coming already.
 
E

encephalon

Member
RyougaSaotome said:
Oh god, you're still in chapter 5 huh?

OTL
Click to expand...

I'm gonna try to get through the chapter tonight, but knowing that
groups A and B are going to reconvene in Galleria Fortress ...
I don't know. We'll see.

Edit: What timeframe do you think we're looking at Ryouga? Over a year?

Edit again: Oh my gooooooooood. Questions answered! More Ch. 5:

「あの女かと思ったけど、鋼の聖女の方だったか」…というわけで、槍の聖女と鋼の聖女は違う人物だ。

うわあああああああああああああああ

Buh Buh But. My mind is full of fuck. What was Arianrhod doing in the castle? What is the orb? What does she have to gain by helping out the party and what is she doing in Ouroboros (maybe there was a hint in Ao that I forgot here)?
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
encephalon said:
Edit: What timeframe do you think we're looking at Ryouga? Over a year?

Edit again: Oh my gooooooooood. Questions answered! More Ch. 5:

「あの女かと思ったけど、鋼の聖女の方だったか」…というわけで、槍の聖女と鋼の聖女は違う人物だ。

うわあああああああああああああああ

Buh Buh But. My mind is full of fuck. What was Arianrhod doing in the castle? What is the orb? What does she have to gain by helping out the party and what is she doing in Ouroboros (maybe there was a hint in Ao that I forgot here)?
Click to expand...

You mean till the next game? I'd say a year is pretty much guaranteed. Next September, just like with Zero and Ao.

As for your spoiler:
The question becomes was Arianrhod essentially cleaning house by wiping out that orb? Was that her mission? Or was she trying to keep the party from potentially finding out what it is?

They never do explain why she's in Ouroboros, though out of the group that was in Ao, she was the most neutral when it came to Lloyd and the others. She could have easily wiped them out in their battle, but chose to sort of guide them instead.

ALSO: 「あの女かと思ったけど、鋼の聖女の方だったか」so does that mean she was expecting Sandlot to be there? Is she implying that Sandlot is still around???

Chapter 7 + Ao:
Woh. For some reason I was expecting that to go down significantly more dramatically than it did. Instead, people got the call that the cannon was wiped out by some unknown Crossbell force, and then BOOM. Skip ahead like a week. It's fascinating to see how outside of Crossbell, nobody actually seems to know what's going on. No talk of the mechs or anything. WHERE IS THIS GOING.
 
E

encephalon

Member
RyougaSaotome said:
You mean till the next game? I'd say a year is pretty much guaranteed. Next September, just like with Zero and Ao.

As for your spoiler:
The question becomes was Arianrhod essentially cleaning house by wiping out that orb? Was that her mission? Or was she trying to keep the party from potentially finding out what it is?

They never do explain why she's in Ouroboros, though out of the group that was in Ao, she was the most neutral when it came to Lloyd and the others. She could have easily wiped them out in their battle, but chose to sort of guide them instead.

ALSO: 「あの女かと思ったけど、鋼の聖女の方だったか」so does that mean she was expecting Sandlot to be there? Is she implying that Sandlot is still around???
Click to expand...

More Ch. 5 and I should probably have noted that what we've discussing involves Ao as well. This involves the whole series:

Edited: Keeping the party from discovering what it is doesn't sound right to me. Even if Ouroboros was interested in the type of phenomena in 3rd and the castle ... I'm not sure the party would have "discovered" the nature of the Orb when they were trapped and without any knowledge that Emma had beforehand. I'm assuming she was there for other reasons. Omg unless the phenomena in the castle was involved with waking her from her slumber!?

Speaking of her relationship with Lloyd, I was left with the impression that Arianrhod enjoyed challenging the party more than anything else. The A group taking on Nosferatu must have been intriguing for her ... She probably saved them because chances are she'll have the chance to face them (and us, her) in the future. : )

I think ... it could actually mean the opposite. Celine may know something is going on with the castle, but she must not know what was going on with Arianrhod. She could have just had the same reaction we did ... Arianrhod looks just like Lianne. But I think this may mean that we'll learn there was both a 槍の聖女　and a 鋼の聖女 in Erebonian history. Perhaps.

Note: I don't think I beat Arianrhod, I just knocked off her mask. So depending on the event that occurs afterward, my conjecture could be fundamentally off base.
 
G

Gweg

Neo Member
This thread is tantalizing. Not having the game sucks, but I'm waiting for next year to buy it, so as not to suffer from withdrawal syndrome. Props to you guys for proper spoiler tags. Can't wait to play this.
 
E

encephalon

Member
Gweg said:
This thread is tantalizing. Not having the game sucks, but I'm waiting for next year to buy it, so as not to suffer from withdrawal syndrome. Props to you guys for proper spoiler tags. Can't wait to play this.
Click to expand...

You could also get worn out on Kiseki and not enjoy the sequel as much! Waiting will make Part 2 sweeter. Suffer with us. : )
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
encephalon said:
More Ch. 5 and I should probably have noted that what we've discussing involves Ao as well. This involves the whole series:

Edited: Keeping the party from discovering what it is doesn't sound right to me. Even if Ouroboros was interested in the type of phenomena in 3rd and the castle ... I'm not sure the party would have "discovered" the nature of the Orb when they were trapped and without any knowledge that Emma had beforehand.

Speaking of her relationship with Lloyd, I was left with the impression that Arianrhod enjoyed challenging the party more than anything else. The A group taking on Nosferatu must have been intriguing for her ... She probably saved them because chances are she'll have the chance to face them (and us, her) in the future. : )

I think ... it could actually mean the opposite. Celine may know something is going on with the castle, but she must not know what was going on with Arianrhod. She could have just had the same reaction we did ... Arianrhod looks just like Lianne. But I think this may mean that we'll learn there was both a 槍の聖女　and a 鋼の聖女 in Erebonian history. Perhaps.

Note: I don't think I beat Arianrhod, I just knocked off her mask. So depending on the event that occurs afterward, my conjecture could be fundamentally off base.
Click to expand...

Continuing chapter 5/Ao no Kiseki spoilers:

Valid point. Or maybe she was just paying a visit to place nostalgic to her? It's really hard to say whether or not she was there on business and just happened to step in to help A group after watching them struggle against all odds.

I guess the question comes down to what the hell was that goddamn orb.

Also tangentially related: people have been really good about using spoiler tags in the thread. Thanks everybody! <3
 
E

encephalon

Member
RyougaSaotome said:
Continuing chapter 5/Ao no Kiseki spoilers:

Valid point. Or maybe she was just paying a visit to place nostalgic to her? It's really hard to say whether or not she was there on business and just happened to step in to help A group after watching them struggle against all odds.

I guess the question comes down to what the hell was that goddamn orb.

Also tangentially related: people have been really good about using spoiler tags in the thread. Thanks everybody! <3
Click to expand...

Continuing spoilers:

Nostalgia could definitely be it.

Well ... I guess the question is how much was the bell responsible for and how much was the orb responsible for?
 
L

luca1980

Banned
encephalon said:
You could also get worn out on Kiseki and not enjoy the sequel as much!
Click to expand...
why worn out?
i mean....i could understand it only if:

- plots goes anywhere and just repeat itself
- too much time from one chapter to another (not this case with falcom development schedule from a while)
- plots has a surprise which ruins everything like...star ocean 3....or something is handled very badly..

imho
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
Now that I've had some time to think about the end of Sen, I figured I'd collect my thoughts on the whole thing.

Sen no Kiseki END/Sora no Kiseki/Zero no Kiseki/Ao no Kiseki SPOILERS:

So shit hits the fan hard and Erebonia is thrown into turmoil. The nobles reveal that they've been working with the Liberation Front (no surprise). Not only that, they've hired the Western Winds (Nishi Kaze), worked with the Reinfort group to mass develop God Knights, have Ouroboros backing them, and have already taken control of the capital. Things can't possibly get any worse, except for the presence of the Abyss Apostle in the form of Vita/Misty/Diva. She has the power to alter memories (like Weissman), so there's no telling how deeply she's been guiding events for the organization.

They mentioned that Crow was led to his mech with her help, so I'm wondering how much she's tinkered with his mind. Then there's the fact that Sharon is actually an Enforcer for Ouroboros, but is currently committed to Alisa's family and protecting their interests. It's not the first time in the series that an Enforcer has done what they wanted to despite orders from up top either (hi Renne).

Meanwhile, the game ends on what can only be described as the biggest kick in the nuts cliffhanger of all time. Valimar forces Rean to leave his loved ones behind against Crow and Ordine, a dire situation for sure. The battle is already lost, and things have barely even started. Sen SC (lol names) is going to end up hitting the ground running right at the start, or at least have some kind of time skip.

That's not to mention that due to the timeline, it's fairly likely that Arianrhod, Campanella, the Doc, Mariabelle and even Randy's insane cousin could pop up too.

THIS IS MADNESS.
 
E

encephalon

Member
luca1980 said:
why worn out?
i mean....i could understand it only if:

- plots goes anywhere and just repeat itself
- too much time from one chapter to another (not this case with falcom development schedule from a while)
- plots has a surprise which ruins everything like...star ocean 3....or something is handled very badly..

imho
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm the only one, but sometimes if I play too much of something I grow tired of it, have to take a break, etc. I've always loved Xenogears, but I've never beaten it without taking a break.
 
J

jae

Member
In the final moments of the last chapter.

Oh my goodness.

I feel like I should have seen at least one of the heel turns coming.
 
C

clay_ghost

Member
I hate this thread :( so tempting to click the spoilers especially when there is no English or Chinese translation in the pipe line .
 
J

jae

Member
Aeana said:
Are you coming back to FF14 now?! :(
Click to expand...

Probably not, at least not until 2.1.
After like 50 ifrits to get a bow, then losing to Titan repeatedly I realized that not only am I kinda bad at the game, I really just don't enjoy it.
 
A

Aeana

Member
jae said:
Probably not, at least not until 2.1.
After like 50 ifrits to get a bow, then losing to Titan repeatedly I realized that not only am I kinda bad at the game, I really just don't enjoy it.
Click to expand...

You just need to play with better people. I help people with Titan all the time and we win.

Boo.
 
T

twentytwo22

Member
Just beat it this morning.

Elliot's post above sums it up very nicely.
(Game spoilers)
Instead of something coming to a head and making you want to see what happens next, everything is coming to a head and I have a feeling the next game is just going to be insane.

I mean seriously, ANY character in the Kiseki series up to this point could (and probably will?) show up - and you know what happens in these damn games once you think you know a character... And I approve of calling it Sen SC because I feel like it will be to Sen what SC is to FC -- bigger, longer, and more insane.

On a side-note, when Misty started singing Hoshi no Arika, my spider-sense was TINGLING haha.

Regarding Arianrhod, I got the feeling that she IS the heroine Leanne somehow re-incarnated? Was there something I missed that contradicts this?

Also, do we really know much about what the &#24187;&#28948;&#35336;&#30011; really is at this point? It's been a while since I've played Ao (and I want to play them all again now, so I probably will) but do we have much insight here yet?

Also, jae = Ayako/Rozeblood jae? If so, what's up. (<Ikari)
 
O

omgfloofy

Banned
twentytwo22 said:
(Game spoilers)
Regarding Arianrhod, I got the feeling that she IS the heroine Leanne somehow re-incarnated? Was there something I missed that contradicts this?
Click to expand...

I don't think we've seen anything that contradicts reincarnation. In fact, I think Narugami (@overthebarrier on twitter) had that as a theory for how the stigma show up in different people over generations, as they're reincarnations. It's a good thought- and I wouldn't be surprised if something like that exists in the Kiseki-setting.

twentytwo22 said:
Also, do we really know much about what the &#24187;&#28948;&#35336;&#30011; really is at this point? It's been a while since I've played Ao (and I want to play them all again now, so I probably will) but do we have much insight here yet?
Click to expand...

I don't think we've been told what it was exactly in-game... but...

The Crossbell Archives mentions that it is a phase of the Orpheus Project from the Ouroboros. 'Phantom Blaze' is a two part simultaneous act. 'Phantom' refers to the Crossbell incident, and 'Blaze' is based on the Erebonia aspect of the same plan.
 
O

omgfloofy

Banned
fertygo said:
So the game end up in trainwreck or what?
Click to expand...

A brilliant mind-blowing trainwreck that leaves most of us in a state of 'wtf- what will happen next??' as a result.

I seriously had to process what I saw for a day or two before I could really talk about it, too.
 
T

twentytwo22

Member
omgfloofy said:
A brilliant mind-blowing trainwreck that leaves most of us in a state of 'wtf- what will happen next??' as a result.

I seriously had to process what I saw for a day or two before I could really talk about it, too.
Click to expand...

I told Elliot this but when the credits started to roll I was like No No No NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 
E

encephalon

Member
Two things.

1. Holy crap the Vita cannot run Roer at all. Which is too bad, because I like the locations in this game that tend to struggle.
2. Falcom's naming conventions are so weird. Roer = &#12523;&#12540;&#12524;&#65311; Where did the "d" in &#12496;&#12524;&#12450;&#12495;&#12540;&#12488; come from?
 
E

encephalon

Member
DeliciousDoc said:
So, ps3 version is the best version?
Click to expand...

The PS3 ver. allegedly has problems with stuttering during battle animations or something along those lines. More of a problem than the Vita ver, anyways.

What's interesting is in the Vita ver. the camera pans stop struggling somewhere around Ch. 5.
 
T

twentytwo22

Member
encephalon said:
Two things.

1. Holy crap the Vita cannot run Roer at all. Which is too bad, because I like the locations in this game that tend to struggle.
2. Falcom's naming conventions are so weird. Roer = &#12523;&#12540;&#12524;&#65311; Where did the "d" in &#12496;&#12524;&#12450;&#12495;&#12540;&#12488; come from?
Click to expand...

The Roer (in Dutch and French) is a river that flows through some European counties and is pronounced closer to &#12523;&#12540;&#12524; than you would pronounce "Roer" in English.

Not sure on &#12496;&#12524;&#12450;&#12495;&#12540;&#12488;, but it's not exactly new -- for example, &#12501;&#12449;&#12452;&#12490;&#12523;&#12501;&#12449;&#12531;&#12479;&#12472;&#12540; vs &#12501;&#12449;&#12531;&#12479;&#12471;&#12540;&#12473;&#12479;&#12540;, etc.

Also, I can't speak for the PS3 version because I haven't played it, but the Vita version has long loading times, some stuttering (particularly in chapter 3), and some serious (Xenogears-like) framerate issues in certain towns. A lot of this is supposed to be addressed in the next patch (for both Vita and PS3) in early November.

BTW, just wanted to add that I thought it was interesting that (not really spoilers, but just in case people are super sensitive, regarding music)
They had this track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4kPwSMVoE&list=PLADD12E38327830B1 from Ao no Kiseki in the game, as well as I Swear... from SC.

Speaking of music, I really dug this track every time it was used: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TCy8E2MXU8&list=PLT9b7BRyC-Ofi7fYP2faBAmzyTA_3Xwmj
The soundtrack in this game is really something.
 
E

encephalon

Member
twentytwo22 said:
The Roer (in Dutch and French) is a river that flows through some European counties and is pronounced closer to &#12523;&#12540;&#12524; than you would pronounce "Roer" in English.

Not sure on &#12496;&#12524;&#12450;&#12495;&#12540;&#12488;, but it's not exactly new -- for example, &#12501;&#12449;&#12452;&#12490;&#12523;&#12501;&#12449;&#12531;&#12479;&#12472;&#12540; vs &#12501;&#12449;&#12531;&#12479;&#12471;&#12540;&#12473;&#12479;&#12540;, etc.

Also, I can't speak for the PS3 version because I haven't played it, but the Vita version has long loading times, some stuttering (particularly in chapter 3), and some serious (Xenogears-like) framerate issues in certain towns. A lot of this is supposed to be addressed in the next patch (for both Vita and PS3) in early November.

BTW, just wanted to add that I thought it was interesting that (not really spoilers, but just in case people are super sensitive, regarding music)
They had this track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4kPwSMVoE&list=PLADD12E38327830B1 from Ao no Kiseki in the game, as well as I Swear... from SC.

Speaking of music, I really dug this track every time it was used: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TCy8E2MXU8&list=PLT9b7BRyC-Ofi7fYP2faBAmzyTA_3Xwmj
The soundtrack in this game is really something.
Click to expand...

It's just the &#12524;&#12288;that throws me off, but maybe I just wasn't aware of a convention (if it's something like "roo-er").

I'm not sure how I feel about the music recycling in this game. On one hand, it's a nice throwback to older games. I've had "I swear" stuck in my head recently. On the other hand, I'd like the game to firmly establish its own identity in the series.
I like that track too!

A little late, but better than nothing. Hopefully the next title will launch in a much better state.
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
encephalon said:
I'm not sure how I feel about the music recycling in this game. On one hand, it's a nice throwback to older games. I've had "I swear" stuck in my head recently. On the other hand, I'd like the game to firmly establish its own identity in the series.
I like that track too!
Click to expand...

Considering how little of it there is (the OST is fucking gigantic), it really doesn't bother me at all. It's definitely done for thematic reasons rather than a "gotta fill in the blanks" sort of situation.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
fertygo said:
So the game end up in trainwreck or what?
Click to expand...

Considering it's setting up what could be the best RPG sequel ever, it's not a train wreck. Or it could be the best train wreck, depending on your perspective lol.

Finished it last night. That has to be the biggest cliffhanger in the series yet. Most of what I was expecting to happen did but there were a few reveals that they camouflaged really well. That may partially be because I've been sick and couldn't remember all the details though, lol.

This game definitely does not need Zero or Ao experience to enjoy. In fact, I'd say that playing this before Ao is probably going to be more interesting or enjoyable. The events in this game become even more interesting if you don't know what's coming at all.
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
Shouta said:
This game definitely does not need Zero or Ao experience to enjoy. In fact, I'd say that playing this before Ao is probably going to be more interesting or enjoyable. The events in this game become even more interesting if you don't know what's coming at all.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with this, though Zero/Ao players will get the most out of the back half of the game.

It also looks like folks will definitely have wanted to clear Zero/Ao before Sen SC because
everybody who was off in Crossbell are likely to head back to Erebonia. Wouldn't be surprised if we see that two year period filled in.

Also I went back to Zero Evo last night, and moving backward feels weird in terms of battle mechanics and the UI. People who want a consistent gameplay experience would be best served by just following in the correct order, unless you absolutely must play the newest, shiniest thing.
 
E

encephalon

Member
Zero is such a classic. I can't wait to replay it.

Okay, Ch. 6 and Ao:

I'm worried that the mine is a distraction from something that will happen to the reactors.

Edit: Oh my god the entrance of the mine oh my god ... I should have known this from playing Ao, but Falcom is using the "terrorist" element in such a clever fashion. Comrade C is either going to be quite the shocking reveal or ... Hahaha what? Like a certain lawyer in Zero/Ao.
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
encephalon said:
I'm worried that the mine is a distraction from something that will happen to the reactors.

Edit: Oh my god the entrance of the mine oh my god ... I should have known this from playing Ao, but Falcom is using the "terrorist" element in such a clever fashion. Comrade C is either going to be quite the shocking reveal or ... Hahaha what? Like a certain lawyer in Zero/Ao.
Click to expand...

Continuing the Sen/Ao spoilers:

Totally agree. Really loved the way they utilized the terrorist in the game. Chapter 6 is hot stuff.

Prepare yourself.
 
E

encephalon

Member
RyougaSaotome said:
Continuing the Sen/Ao spoilers:

Totally agree. Really loved the way they utilized the terrorist in the game. Chapter 6 is hot stuff.

Prepare yourself.
Click to expand...

I got really excited when the whole &#27178;&#27969;&#12375;&#12288;conversation came up, but I'm guessing ... it's going to giant robots. I feel like the intro/trailer stuff spoiled a bit of what's to come. Certainly more than it should have. I'm excited nonetheless! I think this is my favorite chapter so far, after 5 and 3.

Edit: nah.

&#12362;&#20241;&#12415;&#12289;&#23376;&#29483;&#12385;&#12419;&#12435;&#12383;&#12385;&#65374;

Edit:

WHAAAAAAT. Doushi C, just like that!?

And I guess the &#27178;&#27969;&#12375;&#12288;just went to the terrorists ... maybe?
 
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