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The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel |OT| Class Warfare

Cold Steel is a sequel to SC. ;)

Okay okay I see where this is going :p

FC ends at a pretty big cliffhanger and SC continues from it the morning after FC ends. You won't want to play anything else when you can continue the story from that point.

Also, these games aren't like some Mass Effects that have (somewhat superficial) consequences that are carried over from one game to another. You get some sepith/quartz and there are some NPCs in SC that will have a comment like "thanks for helping me the last time" if you did their sidequest in FC, otherwise it's not some choice & consequence kind of thing where you choose stuff and then those will alter how the sequels play out.

You can just download someone else's SC save file for Third on PC, nothing lost if you play the first two on Vita/PSP.

Alright that sounds pretty great, I can tell already I'll be pretty sunken into it once I'm actually in the whole thing, even the very beginning of FC had a few ah! moments already after playing the prologue of Cold Steel.

Hmm okay alright I'm somewhat relieved that is isn't full on Mass Effect like connectivity but I've settled on the PC version now, would be a bit awkward to switch later on as I wouldn't have a choice with TC anyway.

About Nyoro's post that convinced you to to play FC first. Pretty much all of that is SC and FC has little bearing bar the Bracer stuff. The overarching story and references about villains and more? All about SC

If you're plan was to maybe play FC and then go back to Cold Steel, you may as well just play Cold Steel now. SC is the important one.

I see, well let me explain this one about Cold Steel a bit. It's not like I don't want to play Trails in the Sky FC and SC (and TC) but I have a bit of a "Grandia Effect" with Sky FC.
Basically Grandia 1 on PSX is one of my games of all time but back when I rented Grandia as a kid I found the beginning a bit of a drag and almost returned the game straight away. Luckily I didn't though because as soon as I reached the part where you leave Parm I utterly fell in love with the game and couldn't put it down anymore, I literally devoured it from that point on. It's very early in the game too and I have that with alot of JRPGs.

Basically for me it's like riding a roller-coaster when the cart is being pulled up, I know the ride is going to be great I'm just a little impatient for it to start :p Interestingly enough this never happens when I replay a RPG, then I'm always 100% there from the start, probably because I know what I can look forward to.

Sky FC feels a bit like this for me, I don't find the beginning boring or a drag but Cold Steel threw me right in there and it basically watered my mouth and I'm like "Okay okay Sky FC let's start the ride! :D" right now and I'm just waiting to pass the magical point of no return when I start to become 100% engulfed into the story and world :)
 
Just a quick moment to say that sara lines are ...

20160215220227.png
"Higher Education"

^-^ i see what you mean...
Too bad i'm quite sure she's all talk and no bark on that aspect and that claire has her beaten by a few miles. DAT claire dress in chapter 6
 

jman2050

Member
Finally got around to playing this, just started Chapter 2. It's good stuf, different from TitS but familiar enough. The improvements to the battle system are quite welcome as well. The characters are cool too.

Except Machias, can I kick him in the shin or something cause he seriously needs it.
 
Actually, having just passed the Prologue in Sky FC I somewhat appreciate having played Cold Steel's Prologue beforehand, it makes me wonder some story points in a "no way, really?" point :eek:
 
Just finished the game after 74 hours. Holy FUCK, all the crazy things in the last hour. Almost made me cry because of happiness :)
Please tell me Cold Steel 2 will continue with that new stuff (Gameplay)
 
Final chapter spoiler :
Ugh the festival concert was a bit lame, and here I was thinking they would sing :(
Well to be fair they did sing the encore but I wanted to hear Jusis and Machias lol
I do hope Falcom starts making some nice cutscene for their next games. I'm complaining because I feel like their games deserve to be a bit more polished.
I'm rambling since I've posted the same kind of complaint when I saw the Fie/Laura "combat" but it hurts to see other games like Talesof improving on this side when Falcom's games are still stuck :/
 

omgfloofy

Banned
I'm rambling since I've posted the same kind of complaint when I saw the Fie/Laura "combat" but it hurts to see other games like Talesof improving on this side when Falcom's games are still stuck :/

Despite the spoiler, I'll summarize it that there's a comment on the cutscene quality in Cold Steel.

Anyway... I know I've said this about Atlus, but I'll say it again about Tales Studio, too.

Tales Studio was over twice the size of Falcom and has a much larger budget allowance before it got killed (110 employees vs 48 employees). Now that it's been folded into Bandai Namco Studios, it's a comparison of 1000 employees vs Falcom's 45 employees.

In the case of a Namco team, they don't have to worry so much about the administration stuff that Falcom does (Bandai Namco Studios is underneath the umbrella of Bandai Namco Games, which I'm sure does most of their administration work for them), so a portion of Falcom's employees are also internal business management, website management, online store management, marketing, and so forth. Which I suspect leaves about 30-50% of the staff to be actual game development. Then you look at 24 employees, we break it down into the positions they have listed on their site, being game design, game art, game music and so forth. If you break that down evenly, you'll have 8 in each of those.

Falcom learns slowly over their systems, and with each game released, they have many, many signs of better work done in them. If you don't count the PSP Remaster Kiseki titles (which I don't), Cold Steel was their first PS3 title.

Their first big 3D PC title, Ys VI, actually did not work on 80% of the machines it launched it back in 2003. They had to have an emergency patch released for users to download and apply to the game within the first 24 hours. Tales has been in 3D engines on the Sony systems for far longer, and most likely even has their own internal game engine that they've carried over from one to another.

Falcom has not. They dropped the 3D game engine they developed for Ys Seven with Celceta, and moved to PhyreEngine. As such, Cold Steel, Cold Steel II, and Tokyo Xanadu have run in it, and I assume that Ys VIII Lacrimosa of Dana is using it too. On top of that, they also dropped the 'Napishtim' graphics engine for the Kiseki series to lead in to Cold Steel and do something different with it. (The previous title was the last one in the sprite style format.)

So, while I do wish Falcom can do more with cutscenes in their games, I'm willing to wait and let them catch up and get used to the new systems they're in. Because they were doing /awesome stuff/ with the Napishtim engine in Ao no Kiseki. Cold Steel II was a huge improvement of Cold Steel, and the stuff I've seen in Tokyo Xanadu has been a huge step forward from Cold Steel II. So I don't doubt we'll see something even more awesome in Sen III/Cold Steel III when Falcom finally reveals it- especially as Kondo has said that they've made some visual advances on it during the shareholder meeting that they revealed it. In fact, look at the openings of the games- this was also addressed the shareholders meeting: they had to outsource their openings elsewhere just because of the resources they're using to make the game internally, and it takes weight off of their shoulders.

tl;dr: Falcom will be stuck longer than Bandai Namco/Tales Studio due to size and budget. And you're comparing the first 3D Kiseki game over sprites to a company that's been making 3D action-RPGs since the PS2 era.
 

Psxphile

Member
Falcom has not. They dropped the 3D game engine they developed for Ys Seven with Celceta, and moved to PhyreEngine. As such, Cold Steel, Cold Steel II, and Tokyo Xanadu have run in it, and I assume that Ys VIII Lacrimosa of Dana is using it too. On top of that, they also dropped the 'Napishtim' graphics engine for the Kiseki series to lead in to Cold Steel and do something different with it. (The previous title was the last one in the sprite style format.)

So, while I do wish Falcom can do more with cutscenes in their games, I'm willing to wait and let them catch up and get used to the new systems they're in. Because they were doing /awesome stuff/ with the Napishtim engine in Ao no Kiseki.

I think Tom debunked that as being the case. Sora PC, according to him, doesn't run on the same engine as Napishtim, Felghana and Origin. Because they thought so to before working on localizing the PC versions, and it turned out to be a whole different beast than Ys.

Or did I misunderstand that whole post?
 

Cqef

Member
I think Tom debunked that as being the case. Sora PC, according to him, doesn't run on the same engine as Napishtim, Felghana and Origin. Because they thought so to before working on localizing the PC versions, and it turned out to be a whole different beast than Ys.

Or did I misunderstand that whole post?

The keyword here is graphics engine, which is more about the looks of the game rather than the whole game engine (which encompasses all the processes running the game). For example, there's a free 360° rotating camera in the Sora games which requires lots of stuff like houses and such to be entirely modeled in 3D, and this rotating camera doesn't exist outside of the Sora games. But even so, the Napishtim-engined games (strictly speaking, as in, only Ys Napishtim, Ys Felghana and Ys Origin), the Sora games and the Crossbell games *do* share the same style, the same appearance, like sprite animations and such.
That's my take on it at least, I'm no specialist by any means.
 

omgfloofy

Banned
Cqef got it. I meant the visual aspect of everything. I just use 'Napishtim engine' to describe it, since that's a term I'm more used to hearing (it's been used a lot for a long time in the Falcom fan community and has become somewhat synonymous to that specific look of Falcom's games) --though looking at things on Falcom's site. I think the graphics engine may have actually been developed for Sora no Kiseki FC first, then used in Napishtim afterwards.

The important part of the post, however, is that the judgment is being made against the Tales games, which have had an established look for years over three different Sony systems vs Cold Steel, which was Falcom's first foray taking the 3D look for the Kiseki series.
 
tl;dr: Falcom will be stuck longer than Bandai Namco/Tales Studio due to size and budget. And you're comparing the first 3D Kiseki game over sprites to a company that's been making 3D action-RPGs since the PS2 era.

I'm just gonna quote your tl;dr, but I've read your post.

I do know that Falcom is way smaller than studios like Bamco (the comparison was stupid now I think about it...). And yes I'm being a bit unreasonable with my wishes :p
I think the game looks fine, and seeing combat skills cutscene make me think they can do some cool stuff with their engine. The way I see it is they already have what it takes to produce more refined cutscenes. I didn't see a lots of ingame video or screenshots of Cold Steel II or Tokyo Xanadu but I look forward to it, even more now since I'm close to end Cold Steel. And since you're telling me those 2 games are an improvement over Cold Steel, I'm just gonna let my worries go away :p
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Finished CS last night. That final chapter is so weirdly paced. I'll admit that
who C was surprised me, but it also seemed a little out of nowhere
. Other than that, no real complaints.

Also I finished around 76 hours and I know a lot of people here finished 10 or 20 hours beyond that. I did all the optional field study tasks (that were on the list anyway). How many other sidequests are their?
 

ys45

Member
Started this on the week end, really enjoying it so far .

I was not able to get into FC after 10h and I really tried to get into it .
But for some reason this one clicked right in the middle of the prologue .

I hope I won't be missing too much on the lore and story since I skipped FC and SC .
 

Maniel

Banned
Finished CS last night. That final chapter is so weirdly paced. I'll admit that
who C was surprised me, but it also seemed a little out of nowhere
. Other than that, no real complaints.

Also I finished around 76 hours and I know a lot of people here finished 10 or 20 hours beyond that. I did all the optional field study tasks (that were on the list anyway). How many other sidequests are their?

There were some side quests that were started by talking to NPCs. For example, after exploring the old school house every month, there is always a quest that starts by talking to someone at Thors or in town.
 
Started this on the week end, really enjoying it so far .

I was not able to get into FC after 10h and I really tried to get into it .
But for some reason this one clicked right in the middle of the prologue .

I hope I won't be missing too much on the lore and story since I skipped FC and SC .

You will miss out on several key information and it even spoils the events of SC.

If you can, i'd recommend that you keep trying to play FC.
 

ys45

Member
You will miss out on several key information and it even spoils the events of SC.

If you can, i'd recommend that you keep trying to play FC.

I know but I really cant get into the game and I'm not even sure why, I don't really enjoy the combat I find them slow , I'm also finding the game slow to start.
But I'm the kind of guy who enjoyed and did not had any issue with the start of Persona 4 (a lot of people complained it was slow to start) and this game for some reason is not clicking after 10h .

Whats wrong with me :p
 

aravuus

Member
You will miss out on several key information and it even spoils the events of SC.

If you can, i'd recommend that you keep trying to play FC.

Haven't Falcom or someone themselves said CS is a great point to jump in?

I know but I really cant get into the game and I'm not even sure why, I don't really enjoy the combat I find them slow , I'm also finding the game slow to start.
But I'm the kind of guy who enjoyed and did not had any issue with the start of Persona 4 (a lot of people complained it was slow to start) and this game for some reason is not clicking after 10h .

Whats wrong with me :p

Well, Persona 4 is a completely different game for one lol.
 

ys45

Member
Well, Persona 4 is a completely different game for one lol.

Yes but , I was trying to compare it to another jrpg with a slow start :p

I think if I could have a fast forward button like Bravely Default for combat it would bother me a lot less .

Are the combat faster in SC ?
 

omgfloofy

Banned
I'm just gonna quote your tl;dr, but I've read your post.

I do know that Falcom is way smaller than studios like Bamco (the comparison was stupid now I think about it...). And yes I'm being a bit unreasonable with my wishes :p
I think the game looks fine, and seeing combat skills cutscene make me think they can do some cool stuff with their engine. The way I see it is they already have what it takes to produce more refined cutscenes. I didn't see a lots of ingame video or screenshots of Cold Steel II or Tokyo Xanadu but I look forward to it, even more now since I'm close to end Cold Steel. And since you're telling me those 2 games are an improvement over Cold Steel, I'm just gonna let my worries go away :p

Well, one thing you can do to get an idea of how quickly Falcom steps into improvements on stuff....

Look at the recent Ys games in order of release:

Start with Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim, then look at Ys the Oath in Felghana, and finally check out Ys Origin. Each game expands on the problems found with the previous game and fixes them, I think. Both in gameplay and visuals.

Falcom's VERY GOOD at this. They're definitely doing it with Cold Steel --> Cold Steel II --> Tokyo Xanadu. ...and I even suspect that Tokyo Xanadu was partly a way to push their work on the Vita to help with issues that they had in Cold Steel II.
 
I know but I really cant get into the game and I'm not even sure why, I don't really enjoy the combat I find them slow , I'm also finding the game slow to start.
But I'm the kind of guy who enjoyed and did not had any issue with the start of Persona 4 (a lot of people complained it was slow to start) and this game for some reason is not clicking after 10h .

Whats wrong with me :p
That's okay, a lot of people find the start of FC slow, though if you choose to be more patient and give it time, your opinion on it will definitely improve severalfolds. It certainly picks up tremendously around Chapter 3~4.

Haven't Falcom or someone themselves said CS is a great point to jump in?
That doesn't mean there wouldn't be spoilers/references to the events of other games and what transpired in them. In fact, one of the character's in CS's prologue is quite integral in the Sky series and we don't know his
real identity until the second half of SC
for example.
Yes but , I was trying to compare it to another jrpg with a slow start :p

I think if I could have a fast forward button like Bravely Default for combat it would bother me a lot less .

Are the combat faster in SC ?

There are certainly combat improvements in SC, and I do feel that it is faster compared to FC thanks to the introduction of new mechanics.
 

aravuus

Member
That doesn't mean there wouldn't be spoilers/references to the events of other games and what transpired in them. In fact, one of the character's in CS's prologue is quite integral in the Sky series and we don't know his
real identity until the second half of SC
for example.

Oh, of course not, just saying that if someone just can't get into TiTS, there's no need to try and force their way through it. Playing through it first would enhance the experience, but CS is still a great game on its own, too.
 
Oh, of course not, just saying that if someone just can't get into TiTS, there's no need to try and force their way through it. Playing through it first would enhance the experience, but CS is still a great game on its own, too.

Now I never denied that they can't continue ahead with CS!
I'm just recommending him to try and continue through FC if he can.
I feel it's better to go from TitS -> CS instead of CS -> TitS (Assuming he likes it enough to to play TitS later)
 

Famassu

Member
Yes but , I was trying to compare it to another jrpg with a slow start :p

I think if I could have a fast forward button like Bravely Default for combat it would bother me a lot less .

Are the combat faster in SC ?
No, but do keep in mind that you can skip most battles (just run past normal enemies) and catch up with character levels fairly quickly if you ever notice being underleveled (somewhat random shining poms give you shittons of exp, general battles give you a lot more exp if you aren't up to a certain level, quartz setup can matter a lot etc.). If you don't enjoy the combat at all, just choose the easiest difficulty level, skip most battles & enjoy the character interactions, intriguing build-up and awesome pay-offs by the end.
 

bryt

Member
Finally, after struggling to get through the first 2 chapters in the past 2 months, I just made it passed Chapter 3 this weekend and the story is starting to pick up. I'm starting to like it a lot more and finally get the feeling of wanting to play it more. Can't wait for this long weekend to indulge.
 
I'm bugged about a certain character's motivation in Chapter 2:

During the quest of looking for the sap gem, the group got some help from Bleublanc. Rean then cast doubt over the baron's motivation, questioning the reason he told them about the gem's location.

Now, what exactly is so weird about that? I mean, that is exactly the sort of a thing a meddling kid like Rean would do.
 

jman2050

Member
My goodness, maybe it's just cause I'm on Hard, but the
giant spider boss at the end of chapter 3
is a hell of a difficulty spike, especially given the battle you had to do before it.
 
Really torn between PS3 or Vita.
I didn't get it on release because I still hadn't finished SC but now that I'm done with it and with such a good discount just 2 months after release I need to jump in on this.
It's much easier for me to find time to play on Vita but it's such a pain to give up shorter loading times and better visuals/performance.
 

Lusankya

Member
Finally finished my second playthrough on Nightmare, now I only need the 100hours trophy the get platin.
The last battle is some serious bullshit on this difficulty, though. You totally need to rely on dodging more often than the expected value when you use the 90CP craft.
So it's basically pure luck.
 

Famassu

Member
Really torn between PS3 or Vita.
I didn't get it on release because I still hadn't finished SC but now that I'm done with it and with such a good discount just 2 months after release I need to jump in on this.
It's much easier for me to find time to play on Vita but it's such a pain to give up shorter loading times and better visuals/performance.

Performance is really only a "problem" in one city and in the final chapter. Even then it's not that much of a problem especially in the city because you can mostly just quick travel around.

Loading times didn't really feel all that noticeable until I was doing my second playthrough & fast forwarding through cutscenes & just running through the game otherwise as well (in which case the loading screens happened so often that it did get a bit "uhg, another loading screen" occasionally). In normal play I didn't really feel they were all that horrible since they don't usually happen every 20-30 seconds..

Finally finished my second playthrough on Nightmare, now I only need the 100hours trophy the get platin.
The last battle is some serious bullshit on this difficulty, though. You totally need to rely on dodging more often than the expected value when you use the 90CP craft.
So it's basically pure luck.
Timing the use of strength buff + counter-stance +
the mechs supper attack once youv'e gotten enough hits in
well does trivialize the battle a little bit since you can deliver some MASSIVE damage, though even then you can lose if you have some bad luck
if you constantly miss the weak spot or don't dodge-counter the enemy's attack
.
 
Performance is really only a "problem" in one city and in the final chapter. Even then it's not that much of a problem especially in the city because you can mostly just quick travel around.

Loading times didn't really feel all that noticeable until I was doing my second playthrough & fast forwarding through cutscenes & just running through the game otherwise as well (in which case the loading screens happened so often that it did get a bit "uhg, another loading screen" occasionally). In normal play I didn't really feel they were all that horrible since they don't usually happen every 20-30 seconds..

Thanks. How do the graphics compare (character models, textures, effects, etc)?

BTW, do the Cold Steel games spoil anything for 3rd?
 

Famassu

Member
Thanks. How do the graphics compare (character models, textures, effects, etc)?
Here's a vid that showcases the graphical difference between the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKP9Ow6Z8qY

PS3 has proper shadows for characters & of course higher resolution, but otherwise the differences are somewhat negligible or there is no difference (especially when played on an actual Vita and not watching a Youtube vid on a bigger screen).

The scenes I've seen of The 3rd that relate to Cold Steel are mostly just setup for Cold Steel, stuff that is then expanded in Cold Steel. Not sure if it spoils anything too major from 3rd. If anything, there's one thing in 3rd that was interesting to see AFTER having played Cold Steel, since Cold Steel itself didn't touch the subject all that much, or at least certain aspect of it.
 

flowsnake

Member
Not knowing the context of that flashback CG to 3rd made me make some quite silly assumptions.

(vague spoilers to one of the later chapters, can't remember which)

You know, since he was pointing a gun and all.
 
Here's a vid that showcases the graphical difference between the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKP9Ow6Z8qY

PS3 has proper shadows for characters & of course higher resolution, but otherwise the differences are somewhat negligible or there is no difference (especially when played on an actual Vita and not watching a Youtube vid on a bigger screen).

The scenes I've seen of The 3rd that relate to Cold Steel are mostly just setup for Cold Steel, stuff that is then expanded in Cold Steel. Not sure if it spoils anything too major from 3rd. If anything, there's one thing in 3rd that was interesting to see AFTER having played Cold Steel, since Cold Steel itself didn't touch the subject all that much, or at least certain aspect of it.

Thanks. You are an awesome person.

No, neither of them does. The second one does rely on (or more accurately, expects you to be aware of) a number of topics addressed in The 3rd.

I see, thanks. Waiting for 3rd to play CS1&2 would be a pain lol.
 
Finished the game last night. Pretty cool last hour, to say the least. And actually cutscene there weren't half bad :p

Now onto NG+, I still have all character "s-link" trophies to do. Which seems a bit of a pain since I have to redo the last dungeon at least 2 times... And I'll be playing on Nightmare :/
But my biggest issue will be about the skip system. I wish I could just skip a scene... The fast forward stuff is really a pain.
 
What exactly is the ACC+ stat?

Im debating on equipping Evergreen or Ocher on my characters. Evergreen increases ACC+ by 50, whatever that is. And Ocher Increases Defense/ATS by 50.
 

Famassu

Member
What exactly is the ACC+ stat?

Im debating on equipping Evergreen or Ocher on my characters. Evergreen increases ACC+ by 50, whatever that is. And Ocher Increases Defense/ATS by 50.
It's basically just dexterity except it's an additional buff to it that increases your base dexterity by certain %. So something that is ACC+ 50 increases your dexterity by 50% (10 -> 15, 15 -> 22,5 and such) whereas something that is Defense +50 increases the defense value by 50 (so 250 becomes 300, 300 becomes 350).
 
It's basically just dexterity except it's an additional buff to it that increases your base dexterity by certain %. So something that is ACC+ 50 increases your dexterity by 50% (100 -> 150, 150 -> 225 and such) whereas something that is Defense +50 increases the defense value by 50 (so 250 becomes 300, 300 becomes 360).

Which one would you recommend out of the two? Or which on which character?
 

Famassu

Member
Well, depends what kind of characters you want to make. Increased accuracy on a powerful melee character like Laura is always good, makes it less likely that their hard-hitting attacks miss and thus makes them even more reliable killers. Increased accuracy is also good for characters who do AoE melee attacks all the time (like Rean & Fie), makes it more likely that they hit ALL of the enemies with their craft. Maybe give the +50 Defense & ATS thing to Emma or whoever is your main Arts person. They are usually kinda weak so the added defense is also good, in addition to getting a boost to their Arts.
 

zakujanai

Member
Performance is really only a "problem" in one city and in the final chapter. Even then it's not that much of a problem especially in the city because you can mostly just quick travel around.

Loading times didn't really feel all that noticeable until I was doing my second playthrough & fast forwarding through cutscenes & just running through the game otherwise as well (in which case the loading screens happened so often that it did get a bit "uhg, another loading screen" occasionally). In normal play I didn't really feel they were all that horrible since they don't usually happen every 20-30 seconds..

I played the whole game on PS3 and started a second play on Vita. Every time it has to load a battle I think it's frozen, seems a huge difference to me and rather off-putting.

That said, saving takes ages on PS3 but is much faster on Vita. Also, the game actually froze 3 times on me during my PS3 play, including the very last battle. Yet to do so so far with the Vita.

In conclusion, both are a bit crappy I guess. Good job the game is so damn good.
 

Hobbun

Member
So, do you think we will get Trails of Cold Steel III? I know it's been announced for Japan, but there hasn't been anything indicated it is coming to the West, correct?

I just wonder as the Lionheart box was designed for 'two' games.
 

omgfloofy

Banned
So, do you think we will get Trails of Cold Steel III? I know it's been announced for Japan, but there hasn't been anything indicated it is coming to the West, correct?

I just wonder as the Lionheart box was designed for 'two' games.

It was only designed for two games because Falcom hadn't even announced Sen III when Cold Steel and Cold Steel II were announced for English release.

It's safe to assume that there aren't any plans to release the game in English until after it's been released in Japan first.
 
It was only designed for two games because Falcom hadn't even announced Sen III when Cold Steel and Cold Steel II were announced for English release.

It's safe to assume that there aren't any plans to release the game in English until after it's been released in Japan first.

Not to mention, Sen no Kiseki III is for PS4, yar? Has a cross-platform bundle ever happened before?
 
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