I can definitely see why some say it's better than SC but for me it just wasn't very good. In my opinion it's a set up for a more interesting story that takes about 15-20 hours longer than it needs to. SC is then a huge pay off though, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel |OT| Class Warfare
- Thread starter Dandy Crocodile
- Start date
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Idk I really liked the smaller scale story. I liked just being two novices on an adventure in a big world for most of the game, rather than being on a large scale quest to kill god to save the world or something.
That and I absolutely loved
as an antagonist. It felt like his plan evolved and adapted to your interference, rather than having accounted for them all along. And his
at the end wasn't that hard to swallow given that the game had foreshadowed it for a while through the nature of his villainy
and making his idolization of
clear as day.
and maybe I'm dumb but the twist absolutely blindsided me. I loved it
I liked SC alot, but it definitely felt alot more like a typical JRPG. Both in story and in structure it felt a lot more gamey. Though I liked how it came together in the end and was satisfied by its reasons for making Estelle the center of everything.
That and I absolutely loved
Richard
heel-face turn
(a bloodless coup)
Cassius
and maybe I'm dumb but the twist absolutely blindsided me. I loved it
I liked SC alot, but it definitely felt alot more like a typical JRPG. Both in story and in structure it felt a lot more gamey. Though I liked how it came together in the end and was satisfied by its reasons for making Estelle the center of everything.
Maybe SC being more typical is why I enjoyed it more. The highs in that game are really great and I can't emphasise enough how significant the soundtrack was to creating them. That's something the FC was lacking in until it's last chapter where many of the elements and themes (and therefore musical motifs) of SC start appearing.
I imagine FC would be better for me on a repeat playthrough where I know what to expect and can appreciate the foreshadowing and nuances but in terms of creating a propulsive scenario for an initial experience it wasn't that great.
I can't stress enough how much I do appreciate the series though, and I realise that the slow build up is part of why the narrative peaks work so well.
I imagine FC would be better for me on a repeat playthrough where I know what to expect and can appreciate the foreshadowing and nuances but in terms of creating a propulsive scenario for an initial experience it wasn't that great.
I can't stress enough how much I do appreciate the series though, and I realise that the slow build up is part of why the narrative peaks work so well.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Yeah I realize I'm the weird one here. While everyone complains about FC's slow start I was absolutely absorbed from minute one lol.
While SC sort of lost me in its larger scale at times. Whenever things go big it makes the worlds feel alot smaller, and the world building is most of the reason I play these things
While SC sort of lost me in its larger scale at times. Whenever things go big it makes the worlds feel alot smaller, and the world building is most of the reason I play these things
I kind of agree with that. The games biggest strength is its characters and the nations. It's at its best when the bad guys have some deep seated connection with the cast. I think the final acts of SC had a pretty good balance of that but the overall plot and the big bad in general seem quite far removed from them.
Anyway, we've gotten pretty far off topic at this point. The main point is Falcom are my next favourite RPG dev after Atlus now. The battle system in Cold Steel is really good (if a bit exploitable).
Ultimadrago
Member
While I'm not too impressed with Cold Steel's combat. I will agree that out of what I've played of Legend of Heroes thus far, (First Chapter, Second Chapter, Cold Steel 1) First Chapter is the best in my books. It nailed its tone and pacing very well. Second Chapter loosened that too much for my liking among other things, but I still had a great time continuing the story with minor additions made to combat/party.
In the same breath that liked it, I'm a bit disappointed with Cold Steel 1 having gone through it. However, I'm still open-minded going into the sequel with some hopes that it makes the most out of its predecessor.
FC is also my favorite of the 3 for various reasons but to my surprise, CS had made it into second place. Going into CS I'd not heard great things so perhaps it's because my expectations were lowered relative to the hype I had after 4 years waiting for SC. I hope this isn't the case though because I'm excited as hell for 3rd.
skLaFarebear
Member
Love all three of the games fairly equally, but idr the last time i loved a game as much as Trails SC. I'd rank it a bit above the other two Trails games, but they're all super high quality JRPGs
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I think one has to be in the right mood for Trails FC. It's really not what one goes into an RPG expecting, at least not these days. I really like the game, but it's definitely my least favorite of the 3 we've gotten in the West. Cold Steel is my favorite, by a fucking mile. And yeah, a big part of that is the music.
Ultimadrago
Member
I suppose that would be the two drawbacks. Honestly, I had to look past a lot of Cold Steel's visual stiffness to enjoy the package as it was. I actually prefer the sprites and environments in Trails in the Sky as Cold Steel (1 at least) is quite a roughly animated 3D title that doesn't really look great.
The only thing you'd be missing by skipping Trails in the Sky is a couple of spoiled references and a few notes that would likely go over your head. It's not major, but I'm told Cold Steel 2 refers to them much moreso? Someone please correct me.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I think it's better to start with Sky FC. It's cheaper (currently on sale for $9) and does a better job at laying out the basics of the world. The graphical "boost" with CS isn't that big of a deal since it looks like a mid-tier PS2 game anyways.
Eudaemonium
Member
FC reminded me a lot of Grandiathe isometric sprite work and sense of adventure was probably what did it. I love stories where characters travel around and grow. I really enjoyed it the first time, but when I tried to replay it I found it far too drawn out and unexciting. I never did ever replay it in order to max out the BP. I'm playing SC at the moment for the first time, so will see how I find it.
I enjoyed CS a lot for the most part. The combat was entertaining and the characters were ultimately fairly endearing (with exceptions, like Rean's ghastly sister). I thought a few of the late-game plot twists and the ending fell a bit flat, though (CS2 might fix some of these). I loved all of the field studies, but the school life sections just seemed like a stripped-down version of Persona 3/4 with some repetitive quests thrown in, rather than anything truly unique. I guess my main issue with the game is that its plot felt kind of derivative, although the combat and quartz systems made it fun.
I enjoyed CS a lot for the most part. The combat was entertaining and the characters were ultimately fairly endearing (with exceptions, like Rean's ghastly sister). I thought a few of the late-game plot twists and the ending fell a bit flat, though (CS2 might fix some of these). I loved all of the field studies, but the school life sections just seemed like a stripped-down version of Persona 3/4 with some repetitive quests thrown in, rather than anything truly unique. I guess my main issue with the game is that its plot felt kind of derivative, although the combat and quartz systems made it fun.
I'd strongly recommend you play the Sky duology (FC and SC, don't worry about The 3rd for now) first, both for the reasons you stated and because some parts of Cold Steel's story will have less impact if you haven't played Sky, or will spoil parts of Sky's story. This series really expects you to play the games in order.
I have not played Cold Steel 2, but there is no way CS2 will not tie tightly into some stuff from Ao. I don't know how directly connected it is to the Sky games, but I would guess that if anything, it's most connected to The 3rd.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
For me, it's
SC > CS > FC
FC is a good intro but a very slow burn. CS is also a fairly low key game but I love the Erebonian setting and the mystery of the land (seeing the
SC is like taking all of the fuel FC put in the cylinder and firing it off at once for massive payoff in all regards, and Agate actually does stuff in this one.
But as for gameplay,
CS > SC > FC
The battles in CS are SO MUCH better. The music is better, they're smoother, they look nicer, everything is just all around improved.
SC > CS > FC
FC is a good intro but a very slow burn. CS is also a fairly low key game but I love the Erebonian setting and the mystery of the land (seeing the
statue in the highlands was a highlight for me, for example.
But as for gameplay,
CS > SC > FC
The battles in CS are SO MUCH better. The music is better, they're smoother, they look nicer, everything is just all around improved.
I dunno about gameplay. CS combat:
1) Removed the grid system and everyone can run 1000 meters, so movement and spacing of weapons doesn't matter anymore outside of avoiding AoEs
2) Diversity of S-Crafts completely removed
3) Funky equipment setups that focus on single stats were almost entirely junked
4) More than a few redundant battle characters
5) Quartz setup favors physical attackers over arts
6) Actually has a legit abusable loop where no enemy has a chance of attacking
7) Swapping maxed health maxed S-Craft characters at will at no cost is easy mode
Pretty much the only way to die in CS was to S-Craft AoEs wiping out your whole party or a devastating status effect trapping you into a loop. Stuff that you see in shitty ARPGs.
Without a doubt the battle ranking for me would be:
SC > FC > CS2 > CS1
1) Removed the grid system and everyone can run 1000 meters, so movement and spacing of weapons doesn't matter anymore outside of avoiding AoEs
2) Diversity of S-Crafts completely removed
3) Funky equipment setups that focus on single stats were almost entirely junked
4) More than a few redundant battle characters
5) Quartz setup favors physical attackers over arts
6) Actually has a legit abusable loop where no enemy has a chance of attacking
7) Swapping maxed health maxed S-Craft characters at will at no cost is easy mode
Pretty much the only way to die in CS was to S-Craft AoEs wiping out your whole party or a devastating status effect trapping you into a loop. Stuff that you see in shitty ARPGs.
Without a doubt the battle ranking for me would be:
SC > FC > CS2 > CS1
Haha. This was the only way I could beat the optional boss in CS2 (details:
Isra Samiel in the Cave Shrine of Glacia
My 'disappointment' with CS was really personal. Coming from Ao, in which everything happens at the same time non-stop, I tried to give CS some breathing space by playing other slower paced games, such as Atelier. In the end, it didn't really work out. CS was too slow for what I had gotten used to and the majority of its plot twists had already been revealed in Ao.
Basileus777
Member
CS combat is far better than FC/SC simply for the pacing. FC/SC combat is painfully slow and boring, you spend most of it praying for animations to end. I enjoyed the combat in CS and it wasn't something simply to be endured like in previous localized games.
One of the few perks of the Evo games: you can hold X to speed up those animation to ridiculous speeds (making even Cold Steel look agonisingly slow), have the characters engage in auto-battle at that speed and press Start so skip casting animation.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
ARCUS Orbments are so terrible. Emma and Elliot would've been amazing characters in the Sky games, but in Cold Steel, having a low amount of quartz lines offers you nothing.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
I guess. But to be fair I don't think the way ranges worked in the Sora games was that interesting. If anything this is just one of the many changes that closes the game between the effectiveness of Phys attackers vs casters.
and ranges and positioning are still effective. Like Gaius is one of the best people to have Insight on because his range allows him to get counterattacks off of any enemy attack, vs Fie who can be attacked from outside of her attack range, and thus not get a CA.
This is ok to me, because outside of stealing dangerous turn bonuses and seeing the cinematics, I don't really use S-Crafts because they've always been too powerful.(Especially the support crafts that are gone for the most part) Instead regular craft diversity is WAY up and that's way more impactful on how fun the game is.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
I think some Master Quartz make certain characters less desirable choices, but otherwise I think everyone is fun and viable and pretty unique. This has been true in every sky game. It's just more true now that there are alot more viable options.
Yeah, but the old system favored arts users over attackers waaaaaaaaay more. The most important thing now is that regular crafts are better than ever, and that's where the flavor of each party member really comes from.
Yeah Chrono Burst is pretty ridiculous lol
S-Crafts were always easy mode. If you're abusing them in any Kiseki game you're gonna get bored. I don't think it's worth comparing S-Craft balance between games because they've never really been balanced.
Emma is just Kloe in the Sora games. Only with less reserved slots.
And she's still good.
Elliot is amazing in CS. His crafts are really powerful at lower levels. He just falls off late game.
Instead of thinking how good the casters would be, and were in Sora, think about how bad the attackers were.
I mean, counter-attacks have extremely little strategic use.
Even in CS2 where you can attach a quartz which increases counter-attack damage, it's still not worth using a slot for.
In Sky you had to take characters like Agate, Tita and Zane and make sure that they had good enough MOV to make sure they could be effective anywhere with their different ranges. All that balance has just been wiped out. There's nothing "effective" remaining; pretty much the entire cast has options to attack at all ranges even if they don't move.
I guess it's cool that you don't use S-Crafts outside of their optimal usage of stealing turns, but that doesn't mean the diversity of them should have been removed.
And it's not like Sky characters didn't have diverse and interesting crafts.
Characters that have crafts that have too much utility and firepower (and build too much CP by using them) is also a major problem with Steel games.
In Sky you could pick specific accessories and armor that were very volatile in terms of stat assignment, like the cat suit that could heavily increase speed at cost of defense or armor that heavily increased defense at cost of movement. That's gone.
I wasn't arguing about viability but redundancy.
Every character in every Trails game I've played is viable. But Steel has the most redundant characters in terms of attacking/defending playstyle.
This is mostly because quartz assignment is too lenient now, and character stats can be manipulated this way too easily.
I won't disagree that Arts are more powerful than physical attackers in Sky. However if we're talking crafts then it widens the gulf between physical attackers and arts users even more. Take Rean and his multiple delay crafts and crafts that allow him to strike at pretty much all ranges. It's like everyone in Steel was suddenly turned into Joshua.
I don't like how one balance problem was fixed by adding more problems I guess is what I'm saying.
That's just one example too, the battle system gives the user too much strength.
And the strength is amplified in CS2.
S-Crafts in Sky were not "easy mode".
The damage on them was much lower. And you had to choose between single and multi-target with multi-target doing less damage.
Besides I'm arguing over character swapping... which allows you to switch in characters with maxed S-Crafts. That gives you way too much firepower and flexibility in comparison even if the damage was the same.
I don't think it was wise to make the strongest attacks in the series even stronger and more faultless in comparison.
It's sad because in CS2 the trend continues with all S-Crafts doing the same thing. Only Elliot gets one that's different. But by then it doesn't matter anymore, you're an unstoppable braindead killing machine.
Novel Mike
Member
... Thats one of the major reasons I couldn't get into FC I need to look this up.
i'm thinking in deleting the game (fuck you expensive psvita memory cards), but i have some questions, since I don't want to miss my save file
The save file for this game on the vita, it's saved in the game or is in the system? If i delete the game I will lose my save file? If I upload my file to cross save for ps3, can i download the save for the vita itself? (i don't have a ps3)
The save file for this game on the vita, it's saved in the game or is in the system? If i delete the game I will lose my save file? If I upload my file to cross save for ps3, can i download the save for the vita itself? (i don't have a ps3)
Delete the game and the save goes *poof*. Don't know how cross save works.
whiteninja
Member
Finally finished this last night. During the last battle my vita froze and crashed. First time this happened to me on vita so far. Otherwise incredible game, great story and likable characters. Also I was certainly not expecting
to show up!
Gundams
yeah, =/, do you know if you can use the cross save feature like a cloud saving?
If you have Plus you can back up the saves in the cloud.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
....kinda. If you want to preserve clear data for the sequel, I think you'd have to Cross Save and incomplete save to PS3, complete the game on PS3 and save the clear on there.
Then to use it on CSII you'd have to carry it over initially on the PS3 version before you could use Cross Save back to the vita.
Basically I don't think you can use Cross Save for clear data, or between platforms transferring to the sequels. So you'd have to get creative if you don't want to spring for PS+. and doing so would sort of require you to buy both versions of the sequel. At least if you wanted to play CSII on Vita as well.
Someone correct me if i'm mistaken
Glitter and Gold
Banned
a year is regularly on sale for 39.99
which is cheaper than buying a PS3 copy of both Cold Steel games in addition to your Vita ones.
but yeah I HATE that functionality on the Vita. Practically makes PS+ a requirement for Vita owners with how expensive memory is as an alternative.
I'm just glad I get a little more out of my subscription being a PS4 owner.
Lol. I actually prefer using the japanese titles in conversation because the titles are much shorter, but have been training myself to use the US acronyms in threads on here.
I sort of feel the same way you do though. I guess maybe CS2 is a little more readable than CSII.
Saoshyant
Member
Just buy a memory card instead. You'll get more use out of it than the other alternatives.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
That's an option too. because I think you have to redownload Cold Steel to retrieve the data from PS+, so to transfer you'd need to have both installed at once initially.
16 gig is same price as a year of PS+ looking at it. Probably the best and easiest route.
calc84maniac
Member
Just back up the game to your PC or PS3! No cost required except for the hard drive space.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Oh yeah I forgot about this. I'm gonna try it and see if I can load CS2 data without having CS installed
Post the results
This is what a guy on gamefaqs answered
"Just get the A0 rank for the accessory (Gold Badge HP+1000, all stats +10?) in CS2. It's not really that good but I guess it's better than nothing. The level dependent one is kinda worthless, it's just some sephtite of all elements and some quartzs (forgot the >lvl69 one, but >lvl70 is soul blur, >lvl 80 is Fortuna, I think). Getting Rean to level 80 will net you all 3 tiers of rewards (sephtites and all 3 quartz).
Another non-gameplay stuff that affects some character's lines in CS2 is who you picked during the October 24 dance event, I think. I think it's just one or two lines difference with no changes to the overall plotline. All in all, it's pretty insignificant."
thanks. disappointing, but i have the save...might as well use it
kubricks
Member
Well;
1) I am not sure what's the big deal about grid system in Sky. What it effectively does is making me waste a turn to walk to the enemy, or I have to waste a slot for MOV quartz. It's true that CS's field is smaller but you srtill try to position your caster at the back, what it does is making the battle faster pace which I like.
2) True to an extend. I like more varity of S-craft not just big damage to whole area.
3) The high single stats quartz combine with M.Quartz is what actually breaks the game?
4) Sort of agree, CS has too many characters and not enough development. Many I don't care from start to end.
5) Wait what? AoE Arts + EP regen/absorb is the main damage dealer at late game.
6) You have MANY ways to completely break the game in CS... just one hit kill everything with S-craft the first turn that does about 650% buffed damage, or 100% dodge rate plus counter attack that does critical damage (see Fie with high nature dodge rate), or Chrono burst trick, or whatever. It's easy mode all the time given you fullfil some condition.
Then again in Sky you have attack food, which makes it easy mode anyway.
7) I don't like that system either.
Overall I prefer CS's system slightly more due to the pace, but there are some major issues that I hope get addressed in CS3;
- M.Quartz when full powered up is just way too OP.
- Overall damage value is just too high, whether its your characters or the enemy.
- Too easy to regen CP, which leads to S-craft spam.
The battles in Sky feels more tatical mainly because boss battle is a bit of a rally, damage deal is low so you trade blows and heal and reposition. While in CS you just go in with 200CP, 2 x STR buff, S-craft and pretty much ends the battle; or if RNG works against you you will die quickly then you retry. I think the real problem is damage value, if that gets sorted the system in CS would be great.
EDIT:
The best part of CS series so far is on CS2 end game where you face optional boss, S-craft spam won't work so you need to plan your attack. They are massively fun! Hope they do more of that in CS3.
I should mention I'm biased and I like SRPGs a lot.
So removing the grid system felt like they were ripping the heart out of the game for me. I don't know why they bother having the MOV stat in the game anymore.... for instance In CS1, Laura (CS weapon and stat loadout equivalent of Agate) can do a full length jog all the way around the front of enemies to their backs. I like the idea of sacrificing a quartz slot for MOV, or being forced to decide between moving and attacking, because it's a tradeoff of range and power, a traditional balance seen in any decent RPG.I feel like if it was only pace that mattered then all we would need in the versions of Sky here in the West would be turbo or auto-battle options to make the battle systems of Sky more superior in people's minds. Unfortunate that we in the West don't have those options. I'm a slow and deliberate player of RPGs so I didn't mind slower battles especially since leveling is far more lenient in Sky too. But I guess in Steel by upping the damage and range on everything to such huge levels that helps with pacing...
Anyway I sort of agree about that particular optional boss, but don't forget there's one fight in CS2 where you are limited to 2 characters, limited to specific quartz (and master quartz), limited by level hard in comparison to the battle, semi-locked equips and limited items. And because of those limitations, the fight becomes much more tactical. I actually had to stop and think about my next moves for the first time in a very long while. So the Steel system can work when Falcom wants it to.
I just got the game and I can say : THANK GOD they removed the grid system because it's what make me drop Trail in the Sky. Hated it to the core. I prefer this new style that is similar to Lunar 2.
Cornbread78
Member
Ok, I'm still very early on and just got to tbe 2nd floor boss at the old schoolhouse. WTF is up with this difficulty spike? Pure bullshit..
Wait until the 5th floor (I think, maybe 4th). The only boss in the game that really pissed me off.