My friend described Suyin as viewing Kuvira as a "prized show dog" and I agree with that assessment.
After all, if Suyin really considered Kuvira a true daughter, she would have introduced Kuvira to Korra back when they first met in Book 3.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
- Status
My friend described Suyin as viewing Kuvira as a "prized show dog" and I agree with that assessment.
After all, if Suyin really considered Kuvira a true daughter, she would have introduced Kuvira to Korra back when they first met in Book 3.
SilentMatthew
Member
She is what? 13-14? Has on-screen friends and had a slightly complex relationship with her mother. Also raised by a pseduo-Darwinist dictator. I would certainty hope with all of that setup and context that a character would have a personality.
An apt comparison between Ozai and Kuvirva would be like two canvases.
Ozai is like a Napoleonic/Romanticize war painting, very directed and has little in terms of alternative interpretation. Whereas Kuvirva, you have a general idea what you/the artist wants it to be and you have a great many paints. Can you form it into anything because it is nothing but untouched paints and a blank canvas.
Ozai is not a Napoleonic war painting.
He is a very flat character. He is evil. The end.
He's like a generic "gothic" drawing on deviantart.
JadedWriter
Member
Wow that's an interesting way of looking at it. Do you remember your friends reasoning for it? I guess it does seem like "Look at how well I trained this person" with Su. No wonder why I very rarely take Suyin's side.
JadedWriter
Member
Swings and round abouts here. It comes in cycles.
That Dude John
Member
You know, when I really think about it, as much as I like to joke about Mako, Kuvira clearly took the biggest L. After all that trouble, she's gonna be alone again likely for the rest of her days. It could've been kinda tragic if they played it that way.
FeenixRising
Banned
I can always go back to talking about Kuvira ships if you want.
m_shortpants
Member
She's a villian, she deserves the L.
Mako was a main character, I'd still say he takes the biggest L (that we see anyway. It's perfectly fine to assume he'll have a good life going forward).
JadedWriter
Member
Dat Korra conjugal visitation rights.
She had good intentions...they just threw her under a King Tiger tank.
That Dude John
Member
Nah, Mako had the hypest scene so he's aight.
The cycle cannot be broken
Nah, I'm good. Toa has suffered enough.
BKatastrophe
Member
I'm on my phone at work and this my lack of ability to give a genuine response to anything hurts me
If I wanted to borrow SilentMatthew's art metaphor, I'd say Kuvira is a nice sketch. It's not a finished piece obviously but there is good structure/composition. After all, there are many cases where a sketch is more artistically appealing than the finished composition. I can look at the character get a sense there's more going on than what we get to see on screen.
I'd say similar things about the members of the Red Lotus too.
Perhaps, the frustration some people get with The Legend of Korra is that we see all these interesting characters but we aren't filled in on all the details and we have so little time with them.
While it may not be the ideal situation, I don't view it as a wholly negative thing as this allows the viewer to speculate based on the information that we do get. I prefer a situation where the character's back-stories aren't fully fleshed out vs. a story where we know everything about the character and it's all boring, cliche, etc.
Like how Snape and Dumbledore from the Harry Potter series were a lot more appealing as characters before we learned their back stories.
Suyin is technically one of the "good" characters but at the same time she has a lot of issues. It's kind of easy to see how people thought she was secretly a Red Lotus member.
My friend suggested that Suyin is one of those people that values blood ties. "family first" and all that.
While Kuvira was adopted by her, she would never accept her as a daughter like Opal because they are not related by blood. Suyin reaches out to her son Baatar Jr. and forgives him for his crimes but does not offer Kuvira the same courtesy. Suyin asserts that Kuvira can't be reasoned with and attempts to assassinate her.
This hatred is mostly likely due to the fact Suying views that Kuvira turned one of her "real" offspring, Baatar Jr. against her.
JadedWriter
Member
Suyin definitely has moments of coming off as a spoiled brat. How Lin put up with her shit is beyond me and I hate the fact that Bryke chooses that she's the character that we're supposed to side with. Based on what you said Kuvira had every right to kick her ass, Su never once tried to even reason with the woman in the first place since all she tried to do was intimidate her and then murder her in her pajamas.
BKatastrophe
Member
I agree, but "overrated" really doesn't mean anything as a criticism. That being said, Rules of Nature isn't my favorite track from that game. I'd listen to a good 50% over it, but the main reason it's so popular is because it's the theme from the first boss in the game and because it perfectly exemplifies, more than any other song, MGR's usage of music. Something that it is heavily praised for.Bro, all you hear when MGR is brought up is "Rules of Nature this" and "Rules of Nature that".
Now let's go.
Plus, I think it's more about the scene than the actual song itself.
Damn, that Kuvira discussion was a tight read.
BKatastrophe
Member
Got that sick airbending tech
FeenixRising
Banned
Yea, Su gave off that "stuck up" vibe when she was introduced, even when Lin was acting like an ass towards her and Opal I still rooted for her in her fight against Su.
JadedWriter
Member
They went both those seasons without anybody really putting her in her place. I think Kuvira did a couple of times, but Kuvira is the "villain" in that regard, but Su did deserve whatever was coming to her. Even Kuvira had the common decency to jail Su with her family. Ozai probably would've done some Skeletor shit and burn them alive, one by one in front of the whole family. There were times were Kuvira couldn't even "villain" right. Lin should've won that fight. She got like no moral victory against Su. Lin either had to suck up her shit or be made to look like some spiteful as person that was holding a grudge for no reason. Su literally scarred Lin for life and put a big ass rift between Lin and her family. I think Lin's main gripe is that Su never really paid for it. She got thrown out of Republic City and built a kick ass life for herself. She saw the world in a way Lin probably never will.
FeenixRising
Banned
Lin would've won if she weren't fighting while half-dead. No fuckin way in hell ol sheltered in Zaofu ass Suyin could've defeated Republic City's Chief of Police in a fair one.
Nice to see people are starting to join my "Su is to blame for everything" club. It's been very lonely
Hey now, I have been the advocate of Su sharing a jail cell with Kuvira even during the airing of Season 4.
Jeremy Zuckerman: this feels weird
On the soundtrack.
You made such beautiful music for the show. Any chance well get to a release for books 2-4?
definitely. it's a very slow process to get permission but we've been on it for a while. hoping we'll hear good news soon
Heh where have you been. Quite a few people having been calling for Su's head since the flashback and that little assassination attempt from her.
On the soundtrack.
You made such beautiful music for the show. Any chance well get to a release for books 2-4?
definitely. it's a very slow process to get permission but we've been on it for a while. hoping we'll hear good news soon
Nice to see people are starting to join my "Su is to blame for everything" club. It's been very lonely
Heh where have you been. Quite a few people having been calling for Su's head since the flashback and that little assassination attempt from her.
This is largely my view as well. You get enough of her character to hang your hat on, and while going deeper with her would be nice, it's just not worth the additional screentime, which is at a premium. Not that it really matters as Book 4 is focused on Korra after all, and Kuvira's role here is to be Korra's foil. We see in her what Korra would of been if she continued down the dark path she was heading in Book 2, where her drive to fix the world's problems was overriding her sense of balance and better judgement. Kuvira's goals and motives are clear enough to see how they drive her actions, even if the history behind those motives is not fully detailed. But it's enough to work with, much like how the Red Lotus worked being little more than agents of chaos.
the same as i did way back when i made those posts.
They're just what the story needs them to be at any given time. They're lists, not characters. The story doesn't necessarily respect their role in the story outside of... like... pragmatic use? Like they're not really written as people. The story needs them to do a thing, and then they do it, and then they sit out of the way until they need to do a thing again. The writers try to humanize them in some ways (Asami's woes with her father), but with Korra specifically it feels like her stresses don't really matter. They don't seem sincere because the way it's resolved is very abrupt. Toph helps her, suddenly she's cured. Then she fights Kuvira. She's not cured. Then we don't see or hear anything about her mental health problem until she meets Zaheer, and it's taken care of in a moment. And from that point forward, it's gone. Like... okay I guess? And then Raava is back or whatever, but I don't really care about Raava being gone because it's not like she had meaningful discussion with Raava in the first place. It's the same thing they did with Korra's connection to the past Avatars. Who gives a shit about them being gone outside of a meta standpoint? She didn't talk to them like Aang talked to Roku, so I have no emotional investment in her personal connection to the past Avatars because she didn't have an emotional investment in her personal connection to the past Avatars outside of how it related to her duty. And the writers force her to have a shallow understanding of her duty anyway so I'm also not invested in her duty.
Korra spent book 3 being this passive "thing" waiting to be collected, like a piece of the Triforce in Legend of Zelda. And Asami was like... that fast sail that you get in the auction in Windwaker. Like getting that sail is completely optional but you can get to the Triforce pieces faster if you have it. But you don't really need it, you know? You can beat the game without it. It's nice to have though.
It's these two """""characters""""" with this immense potential that's just been wasted over and over and over again, but I'm still a little invested in them because I have an idea of that potential and would like to see it realized in some form. I like the idea of Korra and I like the idea of Asami even more because I love that entire "women leading in tech fields" thing in stories these days and she scratches that itch.
God, that moment in book 4 when Asami held up the blueprints for the hummingbird mech and was ready to present them to Raiko and then fucking Varrick started talking over her had me HEATED. I WAS READY TO HEAR HER TALK ABOUT HER MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!! but at least we get varrick oh my god so good character
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) so funneh xDDDDDD lel xdddddd best character in the show TeheHEHEhHEHEHe abuse my assistant then propose to her when she drags me omg such good hcaracter development :')))))))))))))))))and i love Korra and Asami to death as a couple... i been rooting for them to be together for 3 years and it'll be a cold day in hell before anyone snatches that from my hands bitchezzzzz
This pretty much captures how the characters are written in the show. I always wonder how you guys manage to have discussions about characters that barely resemble actual human beings.
m_shortpants
Member
Oh God yes please! I love the Book 1 soundtrack and I'd buy music from the rest of the series in a heartbeat.
Wha? What does this even mean? Korra was easily at her most proactive in Book 3.
korra was her most proactive in book 2, she was incredibly reactionary in book 3
she was captured/forced into submission like three times when she was even present, and there was a lot of people just carrying korra's defenseless body around
did u watch? or nah?
The very first episode of Book 3 is Korra resolving to rebuild the Air Nation. She's not even introduced to our main villains until seven episodes in. And after that, she dedicates herself to tracking them down. A passive Korra would of gone back to Republic City with Lin. Yeah, she got caught twice, but then immediately escaped and kicked in heads each time. I don't know which Zelda game you're playing in which the Triforce pieces bust out of the Golden Realm on their own and kick Ganon's ass.
i too remember that time asami didnt have to carry her lifeless body to safety after the red lotus attack and the time she broke out of her restraints by herself without asami's help and made it back to civilization through her own ingenuity and that time when she burst out of her somewhat-vegetative state and defeated the red lotus in zaofu and that time she dethroned the earth queen and that time she went into the avatar state and beat (?) zaheer without being chained up and drugged into doing so
anyway, back to the dogshita thread
anyway, back to the dogshita thread
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
I hope the first Korra comic is just Korra and her friends and girlfriend talking and bonding because that'd be sweet.
m_shortpants
Member
I may be alone in this but...
looking back, I think as it was airing, I enjoyed season one the most.
Season 3 was really good, but I just had so much apprehension given book 2 that Korra had sort of been...sullied by that point.
I would still rank season 3 as better than season 1, and I think it's the most cohesive season by far. But for some reason season 1 just has so many standout episodes to me.
For example:
Welcome to Republic City
A Leaf in the Wind
The Revelation
The Voice in the Night
And the Winner Is
The Aftermath
When Extremes Meet
Out of the Past
Turning the Tides
I pretty much enjoyed all these episodes start to finish and they are all very memorable. Might just be because I rewatched a lot of those episodes. I also really liked the setting, atmosphere, the plot (the politics), the intrigue. Feel like some of that was lost in later seasons.
i dunno
looking back, I think as it was airing, I enjoyed season one the most.
Season 3 was really good, but I just had so much apprehension given book 2 that Korra had sort of been...sullied by that point.
I would still rank season 3 as better than season 1, and I think it's the most cohesive season by far. But for some reason season 1 just has so many standout episodes to me.
For example:
Welcome to Republic City
A Leaf in the Wind
The Revelation
The Voice in the Night
And the Winner Is
The Aftermath
When Extremes Meet
Out of the Past
Turning the Tides
I pretty much enjoyed all these episodes start to finish and they are all very memorable. Might just be because I rewatched a lot of those episodes. I also really liked the setting, atmosphere, the plot (the politics), the intrigue. Feel like some of that was lost in later seasons.
i dunno
m_shortpants
Member
I also think Republic City was the best setting. Wish they had explored it more. I really liked the grungy, dirty, industrial, steampunk atmosphere it had. Was completely lost in subsequent seasons.
you know what, screw it. I think book 1 is better than book 3, even with the botched ending
THERE I SAID IT
you know what, screw it. I think book 1 is better than book 3, even with the botched ending
THERE I SAID IT
Voice in the Night
And the Winner Is...
Amon at his best. Such a shame with what they ended up doing with him.
Sure does. Love the look so much of Republic City during Book 1.
Just oozes atmosphere.
m_shortpants
Member
Sure does. Love the look som much of Republic City during Book 1.
Just oozes atmosphere.
I remember going nuts seeing the not-full moon here. Blew my mind. That entire episode was amazing.
When that episode was originally broadcasted, they overlaid the credits on the very bottom of the screen as Tarrock was locking up Korra and driving out of town. It really made those whole sequence scream "No really, this is how this episode ends!". The final pan up to the crescent moon was the exclamation point on everything.
I remember after Book 1 a lot of people were clamoring for the series to get out of the city, but I'd be down for a solid return to Republic City if they ever continue the series in comics. Especially now that the spirit portals are open. Imagine a mix of noir and supernatural.
- Status