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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

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Nice to see people are starting to join my "Su is to blame for everything" club. It's been very lonely :(
During the airing of book 4 I was the one that wanted Kuvira to knock Suyin clear through a fucking wall and I had two rather long discussions with BKatastrophe over the whole thing.
Amon at his best. Such a shame with what they ended up doing with him.
tumblr_n8zd1uyOVb1qcxzu2o1_500.gif
"When swag levels are depleted kill in a boating accident."
 

Kinvara

Member
i too remember that time asami didnt have to carry her lifeless body to safety after the red lotus attack and the time she broke out of her restraints by herself without asami's help and made it back to civilization through her own ingenuity and that time when she burst out of her somewhat-vegetative state and defeated the red lotus in zaofu and that time she dethroned the earth queen and that time she went into the avatar state and beat (?) zaheer without being chained up and drugged into doing so

What's so bad with having Asami and other characters help Korra and do useful things?

I'm not following this logic at all.
 

Daemul

Member
I also think Republic City was the best setting. Wish they had explored it more. I really liked the grungy, dirty, industrial, steampunk atmosphere it had. Was completely lost in subsequent seasons.

you know what, screw it. I think book 1 is better than book 3, even with the botched ending

THERE I SAID IT

I actually preferred the Republic City setting too, it was new, unlike the rehashed areas like the Earth Kingdom.

Book 1 is still one of the worst seasons though :p
 
Ozai is not a Napoleonic war painting.

He is a very flat character. He is evil. The end.

He's like a generic "gothic" drawing on deviantart.

I am not arguing against Ozai being a flat character , he is, but as I'm sure it has been mentioned before he is more than that. Not as a character per say, just a big ole plot device, affecting characters and their motivations via directly or indirectly. By the man himself or the legacy he embodies and control. Also, perhaps I need to clarify what I meant when I said Napoleonic painting, which is a battle portrait to capture moments of fields ridden with gunpowder, flesh and steel. I could have been more clearer, my apologies.

For example,
battle_of_Borodino_1812_4.jpg

If I were to take this painting it as it is, ignoring any prior knowledge of this specific event and/or the background of the "characters" involved. I would say this painting is just depicting a cavalry battle like knights of old, but in a gunpowder setting. I like horses, so I guess I like this painting as well.

Now for a very minor history dump. This picture depicts a cavalry engagement between Russian cuirassiers & dragoons and Napoleon's Saxon cuirassiers & Polish uhlans in the Battle of Borodino (1812). The overall campaign was the Russian Invasion 1812, an invasion to compel the Russians to cease trading with the British to maintain Napoleon's blockade policy. Much like today's Russian economy, it is mainly based in trade of raw materials. As such the Tzar did not obliged to Napoleon's demands/adhere to past treaties. In response, Napoleon raised an army over half a million from all corners of his empire: French, Saxon, Bavarian, Prussian, Austrian, Polish, Piedmont, Neapolitan, and etc etc. Throughout the first three months or so of this campaign, Napoleon’s generals were only able to catch parts of the Russian army. Not a single one of his generals capture any of these parts after their victories. Finally at Borodino, the Imperial Russian Army made its stand, the first opportunity for a pitched battle after so many months of chasing.

Borodino was certainly was one of Napoleon's worst conducted battles, a straight up brawl with little to no of the outmaneuvering that was characteristic of Napoleon. Though Napoleon ultimately won the Battle of Borodino, but not victory, only blood stained fields and the Russian Army intact. The rest as they say is history or more history in this case. Still, the myth of a romantic and dramatic single battle to decide a whole war propagated by Napoleon would live on until WW1. Napoleon will mostly be remembered for his battles such as one in the above. Not for the man he was, either monster, hero or just human. Still, a nearly two decades of our history is named after him despite any narrow perspectives on his character or actions.

Now with all of this back-story and grander context, is there anymore can be said about the above painting or maybe a change in my proposed thoughts? Personally, not really. Maybe instead of "a cavalry battle like knights of old..." it would be an interesting take on one of the initial cavalry charges during the Battle of Borodino. Lovely to see the Saxon cavalry getting some love. It is what it is. Especially if you take away what transpired behind the object(s) of the painting.

Of course not all Napoleonic art are just depictions of battles, but they are not the ones I'm referring to and certainly do not apply to Ozai.

Edit: Aight, this is getting a tad silly.
 

Kinvara

Member
I am not arguing against Ozai being a flat character , he is, but as I'm sure it has been mentioned before he is more than that. Not as a character per say, just a big ole plot device, affecting characters and their motivations via directly or indirectly. By the man himself or the legacy he embodies and control. Also, perhaps I need to clarify what I meant when I said Napoleonic painting, which is a battle portrait to capture moments of fields ridden with gunpowder, flesh and steel. I could have been more clearer, my apologies.

I simply prefer my antagonists to be actual human beings rather than plot devices (even well utilized ones). Opinions.

I have no idea what to say in response to the rest except: wat
 
Nah brah. Season one is top tier.
Most of the season is fine I think except for maybe the ending of it. I still like season 3 the most. The action and pacing of season 3 was just better executed than the other seasons.
I simply prefer my antagonists to be actual human beings rather than plot devices (even well utilized ones). Opinions.

I have no idea what to say in response to the rest except: wat
Ozai was essentially just Skeletor. Kuvira at least had the decent frame work for a proper human villain, they just never paid enough attention to her human elements.
 
I simply prefer my antagonists to be actual human beings rather than plot devices (even well utilized ones). Opinions.

I have no idea what to say in response to the rest except: wat

The rest was my attempt to clarify why I use the term Napoleonic painting. Specifically "the battle", which was merely the means of a grander event, the Napoleonic era itself or the man it was named after. In turn, I bought in two paintings of Napoleon from rising star to caged bird (my interpretation). Between the painting of the cavalry engagement at Borodino and the two paintings of Napoleon. Which one best fits Ozai? For me, it was "the battle", just a means, nothing more. It may have history behind it, but it is still just a painting of a small part of a important battle.

 

Daemul

Member
OMG, I've finally figured out who Opal reminds me of. This has been bugging me for months now.

Gv0V1lh.png


BGPbCAg.jpg


Alex from Totally Spies!!
 

Satch

Banned
What's so bad with having Asami and other characters help Korra and do useful things?

I'm not following this logic at all.

it would be nothing bad about having others help her do useful things if she frequently did useful things on her own too

she's the star of the show. i don't want to see people ferrying her around like an item in the show's most memorable moments all the time.
 

360pages

Member
I think the main problem is the fact that outside of Korra most of the cast don't really have goals or wants outside of Helping Korra. Season 4 was pretty much 'I wonder what's Korra's doing?' for the first half, which is a big no-no in terms of narrative.

Characters should be able to stand on their own without the need of another character to boost them up. Even a series as old as Dragon Ball understood that.

Outside of Bolin and Varrick most of the other characters are satellites rotating around another. Though that might be a problem it itself when the main character is designed to be the most important character in the world.
 

Kinvara

Member
I think the main problem is the fact that outside of Korra most of the cast don't really have goals or wants outside of Helping Korra. Season 4 was pretty much 'I wonder what's Korra's doing?' for the first half, which is a big no-no in terms of narrative.

Characters should be able to stand on their own without the need of another character to boost them up. Even a series as old as Dragon Ball understood that.

Outside of Bolin and Varrick most of the other characters are satellites rotating around another. Though that might be a problem it itself when the main character is designed to be the most important character in the world.

Mako is a cop.

Asami has her company to run.

If anything Bolin is the one who is aimless, I'm not sure what he'll do now since being a Kuvira soldier is no longer a viable career.
 

Satch

Banned
Mako is a cop.

Asami has her company to run.

If anything Bolin is the one who is aimless, I'm not sure what he'll do now since being a Kuvira soldier is no longer a viable career.
we haven't seen either of their jobs have heavy impact on their character development since book 2. mako being a bodyguard was very superficially important to his character in book 4. asami being ceo of future industries wasn't uniquely important to her character at all, and varrick got to talk more about their technological endeavors than she did. she made the hummingbird robots and got to say nothing about it.

bolin is the only one of the three of them who had to deal with the way his occupation severely affected his character because it was directly tied into the plot due to his ties to kuvira.
 
Mako is a cop.

Asami has her company to run.

If anything Bolin is the one who is aimless, I'm not sure what he'll do now since being a Kuvira soldier is no longer a viable career.
Bolin can probably take Kuvira's old gig as Captain of the Metalbenders since he's marrying into the family and will probably move to Zaofu. Even Toph said that blockhead could learn metal bending with the right instructions.
 
Its funny how the "we can work with scraps excuse" is apparently alright but yet its being used slander most characters because hey we didn't get fucking much to work it in regards to most of these characters (Kuriva, Su, Asami, hell even Pema as recent examples lol).

Still fucking boggles the mind with these episode counts were so short and they tried to cram all that story in them.

Also we know need to know 100% of everything either but enough where making your own interpretations can make logical sense.


"Mustache-Twirler" isn't inherently bad - it's an insult if its clear the writers didn't intend for said villain to be a mustache-twirler. Ozai isn't and was never a "character" per say but rather a looming, ever present force in the Avatar Universe who is connected to and strongly influences both the narrative and the main characters. The writers never ask you to really care about his motivations, his childhood, etc. but only his influence on the world around him. He forces the main characters into action, pressures them with effectively a "win by ____ or else" ultimatum and represents their end goal - nothing more. To that end, to his goal, he was written successfully. An apt comparison might be to Dio from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure that I know some people in this thread are watching.

Kuvira, however, was clearly a character were were supposed to emphasize with and try to understand but they failed to really delve into her character and used a bunch of loaded imagery and language (the first thing when somebody says "re-education camp" IS NOT just a regular prison) to prop up her villainy. Her relationships to most of the cast are undercooked or only superficially explored (Suyin, Bataar, etc.), we are asked to believe her actions are tied to issues of abandonment (both herself and the Earth Kingdom) but the writing can't really bring it home. Worst of all, she just falls apart at the end. Neither her rise or her fall feel like they follow naturally from what very little we are told (not shown, TOLD) about her character.

That's why people call her a "mustache twirler" and use it as an insult. Because the way they set up her character and what not, its clear there was supposed to be more there but they didn't deliver. For Ozai, and successful villains in his archetype, they promised exactly X and delivered X. For Kuvira they promised Y (Y > X) and fell short.

+1

the same as i did way back when i made those posts.

They're just what the story needs them to be at any given time. They're lists, not characters. The story doesn't necessarily respect their role in the story outside of... like... pragmatic use? Like they're not really written as people. The story needs them to do a thing, and then they do it, and then they sit out of the way until they need to do a thing again. The writers try to humanize them in some ways (Asami's woes with her father), but with Korra specifically it feels like her stresses don't really matter. They don't seem sincere because the way it's resolved is very abrupt. Toph helps her, suddenly she's cured. Then she fights Kuvira. She's not cured. Then we don't see or hear anything about her mental health problem until she meets Zaheer, and it's taken care of in a moment. And from that point forward, it's gone. Like... okay I guess? And then Raava is back or whatever, but I don't really care about Raava being gone because it's not like she had meaningful discussion with Raava in the first place. It's the same thing they did with Korra's connection to the past Avatars. Who gives a shit about them being gone outside of a meta standpoint? She didn't talk to them like Aang talked to Roku, so I have no emotional investment in her personal connection to the past Avatars because she didn't have an emotional investment in her personal connection to the past Avatars outside of how it related to her duty. And the writers force her to have a shallow understanding of her duty anyway so I'm also not invested in her duty.

Korra spent book 3 being this passive "thing" waiting to be collected, like a piece of the Triforce in Legend of Zelda. And Asami was like... that fast sail that you get in the auction in Windwaker. Like getting that sail is completely optional but you can get to the Triforce pieces faster if you have it. But you don't really need it, you know? You can beat the game without it. It's nice to have though.

It's these two """""characters""""" with this immense potential that's just been wasted over and over and over again, but I'm still a little invested in them because I have an idea of that potential and would like to see it realized in some form. I like the idea of Korra and I like the idea of Asami even more because I love that entire "women leading in tech fields" thing in stories these days and she scratches that itch.

God, that moment in book 4 when Asami held up the blueprints for the hummingbird mech and was ready to present them to Raiko and then fucking Varrick started talking over her had me HEATED. I WAS READY TO HEAR HER TALK ABOUT HER MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!! but at least we get varrick oh my god so good character :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) so funneh xDDDDDD lel xdddddd best character in the show TeheHEHEhHEHEHe abuse my assistant then propose to her when she drags me omg such good hcaracter development :')))))))))))))))))

+1


Also agree with the Korra section and its why i don't view her "accomplishments" as hers, which is unfortunate since (on paper) they are big ones.

Mako is a cop.

Asami has her company to run.

If anything Bolin is the one who is aimless, I'm not sure what he'll do now since being a Kuvira soldier is no longer a viable career.


funnily both are weirdly connected to Korra anyways but yet not much was fleshed out by them (except that one episode i guess) lol.

Only Bolin seemed truly independent but he had to continue running with the idiot ball so that didn't work out for him too much
 
Azula is such a kick ass and generous person. He is sending me his old 3DSXL when he gets his n3DSXL in February.

In spirit of a certain meme, you know GAF, he really is the best of us.
 

Kinvara

Member
Saying Korra, Asami, etc. are not characters is a bit disingenuous. IMO

IDK. It seems like I'm one of the few people that liked the show for what it is.

Bolin can probably take Kuvira's old gig as Captain of the Metalbenders since he's marrying into the family and will probably move to Zaofu. Even Toph said that blockhead could learn metal bending with the right instructions.

Yeah, that's probably the most likely outcome for him.
 
X

Xpike

Unconfirmed Member
Korra is a good show. Sadly not The Last Airbender levels, but certainly way better than most of the crap Nickelodeon pulls out these days.
 
Korra is a good show. Sadly not The Last Airbender levels, but certainly way better than most of the crap Nickelodeon pulls out these days.
It's a fun show, just trips over itself every now and then. The only annoying thing are the people that herald it as the best thing since the invention of the wheel.
 
After seeing the first episode of Agent Carter I'm pretty sure Varrick and Howard Stark are the same person
Wouldn't suprise me if that was inspiration for Varrick.
Nah brah. Season one is top tier.
*fistbump*
Mako is a cop.

Asami has her company to run.

If anything Bolin is the one who is aimless, I'm not sure what he'll do now since being a Kuvira soldier is no longer a viable career.
Bolin's entire arc every season was trying to get with a girl and finding a purpose.

-In Air it was trying to get with Korra and get famous and wealthy. Then he decided he wanted to help Korra after all that fell through.

-In Spirits he ditches the Fire Ferrets because they're garbage, tries to get with Eska (fails) and then buys into becoming a mover star when no one else really gives him a second thought. Then he saves Raiko and helps Korra, preferring that to money and fame (and also Varrick's betrayal). Also tried to get with Ginger, but it didn't matter.

-In Change he decides to help rebuild the Air Nation and then protect Korra. He pretty much decides his place is at Korra's side, even though that was cemented in the previous season. Also gets with Opal.

-In Balance he decides to help Kuvira. Primarily because Korra is out of the picture and Kuvira is taking up the mantle of "peacekeeper" where the Avatar should be. Once she goes out of control he tries to stop her. All of this is stacked with trying to repair things with Opal.

Bolin will probably just move to Zaofu, or help out the airbenders or Korra when she gets back. Bolin is the Xander Harris of this show. In fact, he's almost exactly like Xander. Weird.
 
Saying Korra, Asami, etc. are not characters is a bit disingenuous. IMO

i wouldn't say not characters but more not fully realized/fleshed out characters imo.

It's a fun show, just trips over itself every now and then. The only annoying thing are the people that herald it as the best thing since the invention of the wheel.

though tbf i wouldn't be surprised if some of that is in reaction to the other side who thinks the series is pretty disappointing lol
 
i wouldn't say not characters but more not fully realized/fleshed out characters imo.



though tbf i wouldn't be surprised if some of that is in reaction to the other side who thinks the series is pretty disappointing lol
I do my best to be somewhere in the middle of that argument. I like the show a lot. Would I put it over some of my favorite animes? No.
 
Does this make Opal Anya or Willow or Cordy?
She's way nicer than Anya and Cordy, that's for sure. I would say Korra is more Willow/Buffy and Eska is Cordy, if we're making comparisons.
The perfect description for Bolin.

I want to see him do more though.
Definitely. His sick lavabending tech. Never be as good as Ghazan, though.

Thing is, it's partially why I think Bolin's ending is perfect for him. We see him walking out on to the dance floor with Opal, having repaired his relationship with the love of his life and celebrating a friend's wedding after having brought peace to the world. It would have been nice for him to get a final talk with Korra like Mako, Tenzin, Wu, and Asami. It's weird that he didn't, actually. Regardless, it's not a hang-up for me.
 
She's way nicer than Anya and Cordy, that's for sure. I would say Korra is more Willow/Buffy and Eska is Cordy, if we're making comparisons.

Definitely. His sick lavabending tech. Never be as good as Ghazan, though.

Thing is, it's partially why I think Bolin's ending is perfect for him. We see him walking out on to the dance floor with Opal, having repaired his relationship with the love of his life and celebrating a friend's wedding after having brought peace to the world. It would have been nice for him to get a final talk with Korra like Mako, Tenzin, Wu, and Asami. It's weird that he didn't, actually. Regardless, it's not a hang-up for me.
I guess Eska would be pre Angel Cordy because she ended up being way different after the third season of Angel. Maybe Opal is Fred? If Korra's Buffy/Willow, that borderline makes Kuvira Faith.
I actually think with how Bolin's life really wasn't that attached to Korra at that point he really didn't need to have final words with Korra. His emotions and future seem to be more tied to Opal so him repairing that relationship and have something proper to transition to is more important than some unneeded final words with Korra.
 
I guess Eska would be pre Angel Cordy because she ended up being way different after the third season of Angel. Maybe Opal is Fred? If Korra's Buffy/Willow, that borderline makes Kuvira Faith.

Did Bolin lose his v-card to Kuvira, and then tried to talk to her about her issues and she almost suffocated him to death while fucking?
 

Daemul

Member
Kuvira is one of those women where I just cannot imagine them in bed having sex. The very thought of it is really weird.
 
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