The Legend of Korra: Book Two Spirits |OT| Korra Ain't Number Wan
- Thread starter Omikaru
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TangerineCloud
Banned
The S1 artbook is pretty freaking great. Compared to the ATLA one, you get to see a lot more of the art that goes into each episode. It makes me wish that each season of ATLA had gotten its own artbook.
Legend of Korra Info Dump
Michael Dante DiMartino said on his tumblr today that Studio Mir are animating the last couple of episodes from Book 3
Hopefully this means an announcement date for the premier some time soon
http://michaeldantedimartino.tumblr.com/post/76318048043/studio-mir-visit-with-bryan-matt-and-jae-myoung
"Studio Mir visit with Bryan, Matt, and Jae Myoung. The crew is hard at work animating the last few episodes of Book 3, but took a break for a screening."
Some pics Bryan Konietzko put on his tumblr this week
http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/76265088308/momo-mustache
http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/76219352347/its-great-to-be-back-in-seoul-visiting-our
"Its great to be back in Seoul visiting our friends at Studio Mir. Here are some exquisite original animation drawings of Wan and Tahno framed in their lobby gallery."
Michael Dante DiMartino said on his tumblr today that Studio Mir are animating the last couple of episodes from Book 3
Hopefully this means an announcement date for the premier some time soon
http://michaeldantedimartino.tumblr.com/post/76318048043/studio-mir-visit-with-bryan-matt-and-jae-myoung
"Studio Mir visit with Bryan, Matt, and Jae Myoung. The crew is hard at work animating the last few episodes of Book 3, but took a break for a screening."
Some pics Bryan Konietzko put on his tumblr this week
"Momo mustache."
http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/76265088308/momo-mustache
http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/76219352347/its-great-to-be-back-in-seoul-visiting-our
"Its great to be back in Seoul visiting our friends at Studio Mir. Here are some exquisite original animation drawings of Wan and Tahno framed in their lobby gallery."
You know, I watched Season 1 of Korra multiple times.
I haven't brought myself to watch Season 2 again, just didn't like it (apart from Beginnings, which I watched twice).
I wish they would've consulted better writers
Looks like the production train is in full steam and Season 4 is probably already recorded.
I haven't brought myself to watch Season 2 again, just didn't like it (apart from Beginnings, which I watched twice).
I wish they would've consulted better writers
Looks like the production train is in full steam and Season 4 is probably already recorded.I thought the last half of Book 2 showed definite improvement. Book 3 and Book 4 should be on the same tier as A:TLA. #iwant2believe
I'm still disappointed that Book 1 of Korra got weighed down with a lot of bad writing.
I really hope the Mako X Korra remains dead. (I was never a fan of A:TLA's romances either.)
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It can add a layer of complexity to the characters, however it ends up becoming dead weight when said characters act like complete idiots. I know - teenagers aren't the smartest when it comes to emotions. But some of that shit was mind-numbingly dull.
I really don't mind it in concept but in execution they failed miserably so they should just stop trying altogether and develop the characters in another way.
I suppose they don't really, which is strange because of the renewed focus on 'combat' in Legend of Korra when compared to the original series. Aang fought a lot, but each individual combat was pretty short. I often find myself getting a little bored during some of the extended fight scenes in Korra, because they just seem to drag out.
They're very well animated of course, but I can't help but feel like that time could be used for character development etc..
Curious to hear your thoughts on it. I recently watched it again, and still found the season to be really problematic. I think it was more tolerable in that we weren't having to wait a week between each episode. However these issues still stood out to me:
I. Too many things happening in a single episode. Everything feels crammed. Nothing feels organic, and you never get a sense that the characters are going through these things. This leads to a lack of caring (didn't care about the civil war plot, didn't really care about the characters side plots).
II. Characters being split up was a mistake! The relationships of these characters were already paper thin, but by having every character split off with their own competing arcs, just made you feel the disconnect between this cast of characters even more! It didn't help that the competing arcs were cramped and not executed well (see I).
III. Characters not used well. Asami (one of the most interesting character from Book 1), was pushed to the side throughout the season. Her only real moment was when she tried to initiate romance with Mako again. Bolin had an amusing side plot this season, and Mako became more likable with his police work. But both plots felt suffocated and drawn out.
IV. Lack of growth. Korra still an irritable shithead, to the point of beyond reason. It was extremely welcome that the writers flipped a switch, and made Korra likable just like "that". But the transition felt clunky, and only highlighted her awfulness in the first half of the season. Characters like Lin felt like steps back, disregarding all the growth from Book 1.
V. Sloppy plot. The stuff with Jinora was poorly handled. Her sudden deep connection with the spirits felt clunky and not built up (it didn't really fit with the character in Book 1). The finale had a lot of questionable jumps in plot with Jinora too. While you COULD explain some of this away, you shouldn't have to. The plot really didn't make a lot of sense (what was shown at least). The whole Civil War plot was really disjointed and never really came together by the end. Unalaq lacked depth, and could have been better written.
Things I liked: The beginnings episodes were amazing. They could have been a movie. I would argue, they were even better than stuff from ATLA. Tenzin's plot was pretty amazing. All the stuff with his family was great. Bumi and Varrik were welcome additions to the show. Varrik's plot was pretty disappointing though (how they wrapped it up).
That's my main issue with S2. The pacing was absolutely horrendous in most episodes. Beginnings being the exception.
Yeah, the pacing was REALLY bad. It felt like the writers were hitting bullet points, instead of writing story arcs. The first half of the season just felt like "moments", rather than stories. As much shit as we give Book 1 for having plots that weren't as interesting as Amon and the revolution, at least those episodes had a central story with a beginning, middle and end.
I agree with nearly everything about Azula's post.
For your fourth point about lack of growth, I would argue that like Lin most people took a step BACK from Book 1. That's been the most major frustration I've had: Book 2 acts like Book 1 almost never happened. Of course I don't mean that literally, but it seems like most major events from Book 1 were brushed under a rug only to be mentioned in passing. For example, Korra becoming far more responsible by the end of the first season and realizing how villains aren't just black and white because of Amon, though realizing that he still needed to be stopped. How does that translate in season 2? She jumps to new conclusions and takes insane actions every other episode. Asami, who in season 1 was dealing with morality and choosing to follow the way of her father or the more righteous way, in this season signs a deal with Varrick almost without thinking. I understand it was either lose the company or sign the deal, but they could've at least shown she was struggling with this. Bolin's fine. Mako was one of the very few examples of a character that got better this season. I don't even want to talk about how dumb they made Lin this season. It got to the point where fans deluded themselves mid season into thinking that it may all just be a ploy to infiltrate the bad guys' plans or something. Nope, she really didn't know the entire time.
Book 1 was alright, but it's a on a tall pedestal compared to the writing in Book 2.
The art, music, and choreography is incredible. All that's bringing this show down is its writing.
For your fourth point about lack of growth, I would argue that like Lin most people took a step BACK from Book 1. That's been the most major frustration I've had: Book 2 acts like Book 1 almost never happened. Of course I don't mean that literally, but it seems like most major events from Book 1 were brushed under a rug only to be mentioned in passing. For example, Korra becoming far more responsible by the end of the first season and realizing how villains aren't just black and white because of Amon, though realizing that he still needed to be stopped. How does that translate in season 2? She jumps to new conclusions and takes insane actions every other episode. Asami, who in season 1 was dealing with morality and choosing to follow the way of her father or the more righteous way, in this season signs a deal with Varrick almost without thinking. I understand it was either lose the company or sign the deal, but they could've at least shown she was struggling with this. Bolin's fine. Mako was one of the very few examples of a character that got better this season. I don't even want to talk about how dumb they made Lin this season. It got to the point where fans deluded themselves mid season into thinking that it may all just be a ploy to infiltrate the bad guys' plans or something. Nope, she really didn't know the entire time.
Book 1 was alright, but it's a on a tall pedestal compared to the writing in Book 2.
The art, music, and choreography is incredible. All that's bringing this show down is its writing.
Spot on. You articulated things I wanted to say. In fact, what you bring up is one of the Season's greatest sins. It definitely felt like the writers were sweeping things under the rug, and disregarding Book 1. And while I get that some people didn't love Book 1, this was a big mistake. It really broke continuity/growth of the characters and the world, and actually made you dislike characters more because of this.
I still don't understand how they could have dropped the ball this badly. I personally didn't hate Book 1 as much as others (I admit its flaws, but actually found it overall enjoyable). But at least to me, Book 2 was worse in every way imaginable. It might have had better highs/moments, but the overall seasons' writing and character development completely fell apart at every level. The writing was just crippled. This really confuses me, because Book 1 was written 100% by the creators. And in Book 2 they brought in one of the best writers of ATLA. I figured that since ATLA was written by a writing staff (and the creators were more idea men), this would be more of a return to norm. That the problems with Book 1 would be rectified, now that they had a better foundation for the writing. But nope. It's as if they forgot how to construct a basic story.
Makes me wonder if they are being rushed. If behind the scenes, something is wrong (with Nick and the production demands). Because even if you hated Book 1, there was clearly a weird shift in Book 2. Not even ATLA had that big of shift in writing/tone throughout its run.
Well, and the things that derive from the writing. I think the choreography wasn't as good actually, but that's largely because of plot reasons (a distinct lack of earthbending for instance, which tends to result in great terrain deformation and playing with tiles, etc). Also, Korra and douchebag mcuncle spent most of the finale in Dragon Ball Z mode.
I'll be honest, one thing I really disliked about Book 1 was how "easy" bending seemed. It reminded me of how lightsabers and the force had less impact in the new trilogy, because they were over used. In ATLA, it felt like bending was this sacred talent. Now you even got Mako throwing out lightning like it aint no thang.
Granted, we are in a post-Ozai world, so benders from all nations are now living together. So it makes sense that bending is more common. But I agree with you that even the choreography of bending (and the fights) felt weaker. Especially in Book 2. So that + just an overall feeling that bending isn't as sacred/hard as it was in ATLA, kind of took away how special they felt. I think Beginnings kind of reinforced this for me too.
Of course we can't know for sure, but this feels like a situation where there were far too many cooks in the kitchen. There were too many ideas that, although they could have been developed interestingly enough, were thrown together without thinking about whether or not it...I suppose...made sense? It's hard to explain, but the latter half of Book 2 getting better (barring the finale's writing) gives me a bit of hope.
I can agree with this. However, the Bolin fight during his final film's screening stood out as incredible to me.
You are making me depressed. I can't think about ATLA, it's too good. ;(
Seriously, going back and watching ATLA after Korra Book 2 was really hard. Thing is, I was totally accepting of Korra being its own thing. I didn't need it to be ATLA. I actually liked Book 1 (as I've said a billion times). But after Book 2, it's just depressing to me.
Okay, watched it all in one gulp yesterday. I'll address your individual points and then bring some of my own up.
I. I think I agree with this evaluation on the most part. I actually think Tenzin's arc is fine, however. Probably the best bit of the show. The adults really save Korra, in my view.
II. Hmmm... I actually disagree. I think the split was necessary to allow every character to grow properly. The problem is the series doesn't have enough episodes to give them breathing room to grow in these arcs. The other issue, of course, is that the chemistry between the core "Team Avatar" (Korra, Mako, Bolin and Asami) is just bad. Too much plotting (or not enough episodes) doesn't help, because then we don't get to see any chemistry or bonds form between the characters. It is entirely assumed that we will like them, when no attempt has actually been made to make us like them in the first place.
III. Agreed entirely.
IV. Agreed again.
V. Hmm. I think I see what you're trying to say. I can go along with that.
My issue with Korra, besides the main character being a brat, is that it's too plotted. I'm sure when they were planning the arcs, and how everything neatly comes together, it looked splendid and they all gave themselves a pat on the back for being so smart. In execution, it feels too forced. Everything feels like it's being pushed by the hand of god, with characters catching momentary stupidity to help push arcs along and everything being too neat and coordinated, to the point that it looks like a product rather than a story. It feels like a first draft that plods along. There's too much plot for the size of the season (I'd argue more episodes are necessary, rather than a strictly slimmer plot) and the whole things feels manufactured because of it. A good plot is invisible; Book Two's plot was far from that. In fact, I saw all the seams.
Watching it all in one means it's not as bad, because you can look at it on a grander scale rather than in twenty minute slivers each week. Issues crop up, but when you can move on to the next episode and let it slip to the back of your mind, it's not so bad as when it lingers for a week as you wait for the new one. Looking back on the season as a whole, it is very flawed, but you can see what the writers were trying to do, even if the execution was far from perfect. Besides poor characterisation of the younger cast members, I actually think this is the only major flaw of Book Two.
In short, I think it's passable.
Thanks for replying, was really interested to hear your thoughts on it. Can't really disagree with any of it. I mean, I see where you are coming from with the character's being split up. I mean, Bolin + Mako did get some growth. So I think giving them their own arcs allowed for them to have more of a voice, and stand out as their own characters (rather than just being friends/side kicks). I actually liked how they wrapped up Bolin + Mako's arc. And of course, Tenzin is a great example of being removed from everyone else, and having an excellent arc/growth to the character as a result.
I guess what I really meant was, I hated how they executed these side arcs. How they competed with each other in episodes (more so the pacing), and how cramped they felt. This was more of an issue in the first half. On some level, I do feel that the group is more disconnected than ever now however. I never really bought the growth of their friendship in Book 1 (it was getting there), but Book 2 kind of splintered that. So I see both the good and bad in this. I agree with you in that, it allowed certain characters to become their own. But I now question the relationship these people have with one another. I dunno, maybe I'm thinking too hard on this one. I'm sure the group will solidify in Book 3 and 4, and it won't be an issue. But for instance, I really thought Asami and Bolin had great chemistry together in the first episode (I mean as friends). And then that was quickly swept under the rug all season. They barely had any moments together. And I question whether some of the Bolin movie stuff dragged on too long (I thought it was funny, but it felt meandering in parts). I also don't think they used Asami well at all with this split up. I guess I just wish these friends had more moments. But then again, I guess one could point towards Mako + Asami (they spent time together, although not really the way I wanted them to).
Anyways, yeah. I think we pretty much agree on most parts. I think my issue is more that, I really find the first half of the season to be really bad (maybe more than you do). And so while I love Beginnings (I mean really love it), and I actually liked most of the episodes leading up to the finale, and I really didn't like the finale itself. So basically I have half a season I really don't like (not even on a basic entertainment level), and a finale that I didn't really care for (didn't like the fight sequences, thought the way they wrapped things up was sloppy).
So my perception of Book 2 is probably harsher than some folks. But stepping back, I do see the good in it too. It wasn't all flaws. But I still wonder how the writing could feel so messed up in the first half (as Mariolee said, felt like too many cooks in the kitchen).
I think the real flaw with the first half of season 2 is that it tries to combine some super deep political drama/commentary with whole Tenzin side story (kids, family, 'finding yourself' etc..) with the history element, with character development for the brothers/Asami and tying up some loose ends as well. It all feels like one of those reality TV shows where they follow like 12 people at once and you have to juggle all their stories in your head at once.
BigBadGiantHand
Member
Someone in Nick's Netherlands office done screwed up. They created a promo for Book 2 (which hasn't aired there yet) made up of footage from book 1 and 3!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrJiCf03UWQ
Dragons, OWL, a mysterious airbender, shirtless Tenzin, DRAGONS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrJiCf03UWQ
Mega whoops! Nice find.
I really hope the choreography is better this season. All we got was swathes of water, air pushing, earth rocks. It essentially felt more like power bending than anything. One of the things I liked about ATLA is that not everything was completely bending focused.
The allure of the Avatar is that really, when he gets serious it's like facing a force of nature.When someone, say Toph, wanted to go against Aang, then shouldn't their skill make up fof the difference in strength? So martial arts, soundwaves, give something to show the level of bending hasn't devolved in complexity. As of now, it seems as if Korra's characters have more power than creativity.
I know a lot of people won't agree, since I also found the fights enjoyable, but 's what I thought rewatching S2.
Seeing
for the first time, I thought of
. Don't know why they would show it, but yeah, immediately thought of that.
Iroh meeting Ran and Shaw
Neat hopefully this mean a proper trailer for Book 3 is coming out soon
Ooh that dragon should be interesting where he came from
Interesting to say the least! Not sure if anyone could tell, but was any of those scenes in Republic City? I figured most of this season would take place there given that much of the season will
feature Lin Beifong. I guess she could leave the city, but I dunno.
I'm curious what Korra's next plot will be. Since every season reboots her antagonist, are we going to have another season villain? Or will Book 3 not have an antagonist at all, and just have Korra I dunno, train?
Unspeakable Evil
Member
We might get Book 3 sooner than I expected.
Yeah, there was some rumors flying around we would get it in July-August this year. Then again, apart of that rumor was that the first episode would be ready and debuted at Comic Con at the end of July. But given that 6 episodes are 100% done and that they are working on post-production on the last episodes, seems very likely they can have it ready to air by this summer.
EDIT: Although, given the shit ratings this last season, I wonder if Summer is a good time to air it? Maybe August-Sept makes more sense when the kiddies are back in school (and putting it back on Saturdays). Don't know what summer ratings are like though for Saturday Cartoons. I know in basic cable, Summer isn't a very good time to air new shows (it always has lower ratings).
My fingers are crossed for an April-ish start date like Book 1, but that's probably too optimistic.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I'm pretty sure the reason the wait for Book Two took so long because they wanted the entire season done so could air them with minimal breaks. Book 3 will come when they're done or close to done.
Yeah. Well even Book 2 wasn't entirely done as they were airing it. But enough was done that they could air and have minimal breaks as you said. Based on the latest status update I would say they are 70% done now (half the episodes are ready to air, the other half is in the final stages of post production). I would think they would need another 6-7 months prodiction to be able to air episodes with minimal breaks.
Question is, do they wait till after summer for ratings? At least that's my take on it.
Does anyone know how expensive these things are to produce when compared to like Spongebob or Scooby Doo or whatever? (Or even live action shows). I'd be interested.
BigBadGiantHand
Member
It seems that old man Zuko might be piloting dat dragon.
http://youpje.tumblr.com/post/76818277471/this-is-a-close-up-of-the-dragon-in-the-new-tlok
Hype levels increasing. Please be better than Book 2.
Damn. I just hope they don't screw it up. I mean, on the one hand I'm excited as hell to see Zuko back. But I really hope they don't pull an Iroh. On more reflection, I do think I was harsh on Iroh's appearance in Book 2 (in terms of the performance). But I still feel like the cameo felt forced. I dunno.
Still, this is exciting.
Goddamnit! Hype levels definitely rising.
I think you were probably too harsh. Iroh's performance was just as good as the Book Three performance, which is how we should really be comparing. Of course we'd all love Mako Iwamatsu back, but that obviously isn't happening and the guy who filled the role (Greg Baldwin) did just as good a job in Korra as he did in Book Three of ATLA.
As for his inclusion in general, it was just a bit of fun. He was inconsequential to the plot of Korra, which is how I like these cameos. Sure you could take him out and replace him with some friendly spirit Korra knew (in a past life, maybe?), and with some script tweaks it'd work just as well, but I think his inclusion didn't add anything to the show any more than it detracted, so it's fine by me. Just a nice little hark back to fans of the original.
No complaints from me about Iroh's inclusion in Korra at all.
I dunno. He still rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, on a second watch I agree some of us were too harsh on his voice acting for instance. But it didn't feel right to me either. I think because they kept Iroh to a minimum in Book 3, and because they used him for really powerful moments, it was less noticeable. But here, the cameo didn't work for me. All I can say. How do you guys feel about Katara in Korra? I guess Zuko being older would be in the same vain as that, and not Iroh (since he stayed the same age in the Spirit World).
Better version of the book 3 sneak peek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiv8e2AC4n0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiv8e2AC4n0
OOOOO.
I'm getting hyped, despite the disappointment from last season.
edit: kind of sad I saw that now. Imagine how cool it would've been to see that without it being spoiled...why would they put it in a commercial -_-
I think if there's a central criticism to be made about book two, it's that the supreme focus on a central plot has hugely damaged the series.
Avatar has always had a central plot, but often in ATLA that took a back seat to the many side stories and adventures the characters went on. It would be nice to see some of that back.
Avatar has always had a central plot, but often in ATLA that took a back seat to the many side stories and adventures the characters went on. It would be nice to see some of that back.
If we are comparing the two shows, I think that is easily something that makes ATLA better. The "adventure" structure to ATLA, allowed all the characters to have their moments. It allowed for the audience to grow along with them, and get to know them as individuals. Their wants, needs, failures and successes.
I don't think a show needs this kind of story type to work. But the writers of Korra clearly aren't good at doing this with single settings, and shorter self-contained arcs. The other issue is, Aang had legitimate things he had to learn along the way. Korra does too. But it felt more tangible and defined, as Aang had to learn specific things to be the Avatar - and his personal issues would then become apart of that.
I think we'd need more episodes -- or simply a bigger series-wide arc -- for that. As it stands, and as I said above, it's pretty much assumed that we'll like the characters in Korra by default, so a lot of that stuff is treated as if it's superfluous. Too bad we don't like them from the get go, and as such a lot of the character building stuff is sorely missed. There's just no chemistry in this group. It feels awkward, like when Zuko joined Team Avatar, but the difference is that was intentional because he'd only spent the last two seasons chasing them around the world while trying to murder and/or capture them, and even then it managed to feel right at the end anyway.
One scene in Book Two that particularly stood out to me is when Bolin was bleating to Asami about how Team Avatar is never together any more, and instead are doing their own thing. It wasn't a very convincing bleat, in my view, because I barely believed that the core gang had met five minutes ago, let alone fought off an anti-bending revolution and started a civil war in the South.
It was all very insincere.
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