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House of the Dragon S2 |OT| Blood for Blood, Fire to Fire (no book discussion)
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
AfricanRabbit
Neo Member
I used to think that HOTD was a tragedy, but now I realize it's a comedy.
Fucking horseshit.
And I'm here watching this feminist shit with two women and they hate it as well!
"A son for a son!"
"Bitch, you killed my grandson, a wee boy! I'd say we are square in that account!"
And then Rhaenyra gets everything she could hope for, that she says she has been trying to get without bloodshed, then the INSTANT she gets a leg up she turns all bloodthirsty. Typical chick.....
Anyway, I'm done with this show unless they get Saponchik back and sack Condal and the ither writers. I don't think it was a budget thing why there is no battles, I think they don't know how to do it without him so they stalled. No reason to drag it out other than being unsure how to do it.
I was sooooo hoping for a brief Emilia Clarke cameo though. But this targaryen prophecy turns out to be something a teen girl can stop with a fancy knife trick, they really need to get off it
And I'm here watching this feminist shit with two women and they hate it as well!
"A son for a son!"
"Bitch, you killed my grandson, a wee boy! I'd say we are square in that account!"
And then Rhaenyra gets everything she could hope for, that she says she has been trying to get without bloodshed, then the INSTANT she gets a leg up she turns all bloodthirsty. Typical chick.....
Anyway, I'm done with this show unless they get Saponchik back and sack Condal and the ither writers. I don't think it was a budget thing why there is no battles, I think they don't know how to do it without him so they stalled. No reason to drag it out other than being unsure how to do it.
I was sooooo hoping for a brief Emilia Clarke cameo though. But this targaryen prophecy turns out to be something a teen girl can stop with a fancy knife trick, they really need to get off it
March Climber
Gold Member
You know how I know it's a budget thing? They did the same thing with GoT battles.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Is that man or a woman? 
BearNecessity
Member
Yeah I dont get attacking oldtown and lannisport. So much talk about protecting the smallfolk, wouldnt there be less bloodshed if they attacked kings landing. Even if vhagar isnt there then they could kill the queen and thats another dragon down.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Nah it's a boring horror movie
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Never heard of her/him
I'm dropping this show now
This latest episode is terrible and boring
Gp1
Member
Fuck it, I'm going to read the book and call it a day (or a year). If this was the 7th episode not the finale it would be great. But Jez 8 episodes to deliver basically nothing?
The entire season minus episode 4 went from nothing to nowhere with filler and fillers in between. The entire Lannister/Youtuber scene felt like something out of an YT extra reel. They spend an entire season of Delirious Daemon in New Londo for him understand that he should stay by Rhaenyra's side?
By the way, was it just me or it felt like Daemon lay down his lifetime claim, after build an army and finally uniting the lord around Hare hall, because he mistook Daenerys with Rhaenyra in the Ice and Fire scene?
What a shitshow.
The entire season minus episode 4 went from nothing to nowhere with filler and fillers in between. The entire Lannister/Youtuber scene felt like something out of an YT extra reel. They spend an entire season of Delirious Daemon in New Londo for him understand that he should stay by Rhaenyra's side?
By the way, was it just me or it felt like Daemon lay down his lifetime claim, after build an army and finally uniting the lord around Hare hall, because he mistook Daenerys with Rhaenyra in the Ice and Fire scene?
What a shitshow.
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Revolutionary
Member
Hearing nothing but negative impressions about season 2 and the finale in particular, and I've never felt more vindicated about dropping a show.
Having Alicent just walk into Dragonstone....and then walk out again...made this a bad ep. Having Jace need a "pep talk" when he got the Starks, got the Freys, basically half Rhaenyras support, but nooo he's "pouting". Having Rhaenyra decide to fly ACROSS THE COUNTRY to attack cities with 3 totally noob dragon fliers when Daemon is halfway closer and has been rasing an army the whole time. Having Rhaenyra take Addamm instead of Daemons own daughter Baela to confront him at Harrenhall and just walk in. Having Rhaenyra try.to talk Alicent OUT of surrendering when we've had an entire season of women saying "war isn't the answer, you men!". Having Daemon do, not quite a 180, but at least 90 degree turn because he touched a tree and got a vision and he'd better toe that line so at least 1 dependant of yours will be alive and the whopenTargaryen line doesn't get wiped out or anything, I mean, don't take charge or anything, reinforce the wall, or be proactive!
These are reasons why this ep was bad.
What, just not have them? We had battles in GoT, and we had the trick of just showing the aftermath. HotD did this once.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Didn’t expect them to be building up to another white walker storyline… Not sure how I feel about that.
Thaedolus
Member
GoT cheaped out in Season 1 with Tyrion getting knocked out then woken up after the battle, but it also completely delivered with the battle of the bastards when they realized they had a hit and gave it a budget.
I dunno, this episode had its moments but I can see how they were all disjointed and overall made little sense. We got this montage of everyone riding to war at the end and like…you’ve been building up to that all damn season and now you’re doing this?? All those scenes, taken on their own, were enjoyable and well acted IMO but how do you end on that note? It was a good episode 8 of 10, not 8 of 8.
I dunno, this episode had its moments but I can see how they were all disjointed and overall made little sense. We got this montage of everyone riding to war at the end and like…you’ve been building up to that all damn season and now you’re doing this?? All those scenes, taken on their own, were enjoyable and well acted IMO but how do you end on that note? It was a good episode 8 of 10, not 8 of 8.
Thaedolus
Member
That’s another thing, how do they expect us to give a shit about the Others when all it took was Arya doing a little dagger trick to take them all down.
Werewolf Jones
Member
And yet it's still the best season of the show.
Thaedolus
Member
Yeah, when they basically followed the first book 1:1, it was amazing. When they had to go off GRRM’s cliff notes, they completely face planted.And yet it's still the best season of the show.
Pagusas
Elden Member
I didn't get the impression they were? It seemed more like it was just a quick look at the future showing him "this is the threat that will one day come, the choices you make now will affect the outcome hundreds of years from now". Nothing to do with any new story, just the same story. Thus why they said he is only playing a "part" of the story, his part is a tiny spec in history that helps things get to where they need to be.
I didn't hate the finale... but I was also watching it thinking it was episode 8 of 10 and thought we had 2 more to go.. opps. As a season ender to a show that takes years to make, it wasn't a good one. This season was no where near as strong as season 1 thanks to The Docto... Daemon being neutered and shoved in a corner.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I hated the Finale, so I'm dropping the show and just gonna to read the book
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dude. Forget the grandson. Alicent literally gives up Aemond in that convo. Aemond is the one who killed Luke and now Rhynera can go and have her revenge on the son herself. But no, she wants the other son. so stupid.
I cant believe they are trying to make us think winter is coming is a real threat after we all saw how underwhelming that shit was. No one cares. Jon Snow had nothing to do with the prophecy. Danerys' dragons were useless in that battle. Neither one had anything to do with the prophecy.And then Rhaenyra gets everything she could hope for, that she says she has been trying to get without bloodshed, then the INSTANT she gets a leg up she turns all bloodthirsty. Typical chick.....
Anyway, I'm done with this show unless they get Saponchik back and sack Condal and the ither writers. I don't think it was a budget thing why there is no battles, I think they don't know how to do it without him so they stalled. No reason to drag it out other than being unsure how to do it.
I was sooooo hoping for a brief Emilia Clarke cameo though. But this targaryen prophecy turns out to be something a teen girl can stop with a fancy knife trick, they really need to get off it
Madflavor
Member
This was honestly unacceptable as an entire season, not just the finale. I would not be surprised if this damages the viewership to the point where it doesn't recover. You don't make people wait two years, give them less episodes, and have the entire season feel like filler. What the fuck is going on with modern day television. During the golden era of tv (Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, The Wire, etc etc) you had peak television where Seasons came out every year, and they delivered on quality and quantity. So what happened? It wasn't just House of the Dragon, The Boys just did the same thing too.
Battle of Blackwater in Season 2 is the best GoT battle. Battle of the Bastards has the best spectacle, but it's ruined when you start thinking about how retarded characters acted, particularly Sansa not telling Jon she could easily summon 20,000 men. And then Jon was totally okay with it when she told him after the battle. Like bitch, you you could have VERY easily gotten your brother killed.
Battle of Blackwater was peak drama though. The way it switch back and from perspectives on the battlefield, to the people in the city waiting to be raided. It was fantastic.
Battle of Blackwater in Season 2 is the best GoT battle. Battle of the Bastards has the best spectacle, but it's ruined when you start thinking about how retarded characters acted, particularly Sansa not telling Jon she could easily summon 20,000 men. And then Jon was totally okay with it when she told him after the battle. Like bitch, you you could have VERY easily gotten your brother killed.
Battle of Blackwater was peak drama though. The way it switch back and from perspectives on the battlefield, to the people in the city waiting to be raided. It was fantastic.
Thaedolus
Member
True, the Vale coming in at the end was some real deus ex machina shit, and Ramsey loosing off arrows as Jon marched at him wasn’t believable at all, but damn it felt good. There are a ton of holes to poke in it but I mean…this shot is pretty epic:
March Climber
Gold Member
No, my point was that GoT only had 1 to 2 big battles per season, and some of it’s bigger battles were even skipped early on, as mentioned below your post.
You take that type of battle budget and then stack a big CGI budget on top of that with multiple dragons.
Regardless, what people here are actually upset about is the writing quality and they’re blaming it on the lack of action, because GoT managed to get away with the same crime by having better dialogue.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They did cheap out in season 1, but season 2 was a very long set up for Stannis' attack on Kings Landing and Blackwater was the first big war scene on tv at the time. They definitely delivered on that promise. And with a fraction of a budget compared to the final few seasons. Yes, they botched the white walker attack in the finale showing only the aftermath with sam, but it was understandable considering the show was still in its second season and not a massive hit like it would become later on.
House of Dragon should not have any budget concerns whatsoever. They also took 2+ years whereas season 2 of Game of thrones was done in just under a year and featured 10 episodes.
This is just poor from the showrunner. Its clear Miguel Sopchnik was the main brains behind this operation and this other guy is fucking clueless. You simply cannot end a season like this. Even the Wire which had a rather underwhelming season 2 finished strong and had an ending for all its new characters.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Good shit, but I don't understand why they would shorten the season. Come on, HBO! I'll take this over most of the kiddy Star Wars slop any day of the week. Next season's going to be a banger.
But GoT wasn't a war show, though it did have conflict. HotD is about a CIVIL WAR. If they are gonna try to side step it, talk around it, or just sloooooowly grind through it then they should have picked something different. They culled all the colorful characters from the story to focus on Rhaenyra and Alicent, so instead of a tawdry, vigorous, backstabby show like GoT (without much actual action) that has lively dialogue, delicious characters, and constant upheavals, we get this slog of HotD where certain characters preach every episode but never actually do anything and then get to have "their moment" where they usually inflict the very carnage they just preached against!
Take Helaena, for example. If she is living inside this "prophecy" thing so she is well aware of the White Walkers and the Night King, then what exactly is she doing about it? Has she communicated the threat, tried to ascertain it's scope, and tried to institute counter-measures? Is it a pre-ordained sequence of events they much carry out lock-step, or is the "goal" to just have Westeros ready for an attack (beyond the wall and the Night's Watch?). So when Aemond comes in and says "Hey Sis, I need you to get on your dragon so we can defend this throne or we are all probably gonna get killed" and she says "noooooo, I don't wanna hurt anyone because there is this existential threat coming and we all gotta get ready to sing kumbayah!", WTF are we to take from this? Does she know Aegon and Aemond have to be removed or they will go down a path even darker than the Mad King thats coming? Because the way events actually play out, there are fuck all Targs left by the time the Night King rolls in, and barely any dragons. Seems to me the logical course of action would be to saddle her ass up, join with Vaghar, and take out Rhaenyra (and Daemon) fast so they can try to salvage the other dragonriders to keep a core team going. Baela and Rhaena would likely toe the line under Aegon, Jace is half reasonable when he is allowed to be, Joff, Aegon III, and Viserys are all young. All of them could be productive under Aegon II, even more so now that he has only Jaehaera as heir and no chance of having any more (though as Baela told Jace, who really knows who the daddy is?). It's really JUST Rhaenyra and Daemon perpetuating this...can't really call it a war, but we'll say "dispute" because they are the outsiders in this since Aegon II has the throne, the crown, the sword, and the blessing as King.
So to see Heleana be so passive, just to make Aemond look bad, is really just lazy writing as her character doesn't justify it. Same with Alicents continuous heel-turns between "fight for the throne, I wanna have a seat at the big boys table" and "give up and live like a peasant". She can't be seen as a powerful ambitious character to the audience when the writers CONSTANTLY undercut her by making her a weepy mom and then serve her up some obvious odious "toxic masculinity" for her (and the audience by proxy) to scoff at. Then she basically just hands over her 2 sons for execution so she and her daughter can go live in a hut? A. how is that gonna serve Helaenas interests and B. how is that any sort of life a noblewoman would EVER contemplate?
Madflavor
Member
True, the Vale coming in at the end was some real deus ex machina shit, and Ramsey loosing off arrows as Jon marched at him wasn’t believable at all, but damn it felt good. There are a ton of holes to poke in it but I mean…this shot is pretty epic:
I loved BotB so much like everyone else when it came out, but really when you think about it, Sansa not telling Jon about the Vale is so absurd. I mean, absolutely pants on head, completely fucking absurd. And the show paints Sansa in such a positive light for this. Whatever her plan was, whatever her reasons for not telling Jon, it could've gone VERY wrong, VERY easily. And the fact that Jon was completely okay with her lying makes it even dumber. All those people that died unnecessarily, him risking his life like that, all because she didn't tell him. Season 6 had some of the highest highs of the show, but the bad writing really started to rear it's ugly head during this time. It just got masked by all the spectacle.
If GRRM were writing Sansa, she would never have allowed her brother to risk his life like that. She was separated from her family for so long in a completely horrific situation, and now that she's reunited with someone from her family she's going to not tell him about the 20,000 soldiers that could prevent him from risking his life? Fucking fuck off.
Thaedolus
Member
I think the problem isn't that the scenes in this season were poorly written or acted, but were structurally not cohesive. I can't think of a single episode of Breaking Bad, for example, except the stupid Rian Johnson fly episode, that didn't have a setup and payoff when the final credits rolled. This season left me feeling like every single week I was still waiting for the payoff after the setup....it just never came. We've been edging for like 2 and a half years now. Maybe the first season has the advantage of having large time jumps while this one takes place over several weeks or whatever, but it's moving at a snail's pace. It feels like barely anything has happened.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The battle at the Wall in episode 9 of season 4 was better than Blackwater, hardome was better then battle of the bastards topped hardhome and finally the long night battle topped all other battles.
however, what made Blackwater feel so great was the writing. It was written by George R.R martin himself (i believe he also wrote the Goffrey wedding episode) and it lacked stupid fucking plot points like sansa keeping the vale army a secret, arya killing the night king, Jon charging into battle falling for Ramsey's trap letting his entire army get surrounded. etc.
HBO has had issues with poor writing going back to season 5. I dont know wtf happened but all of a sudden these big action scenes just stopped making sense despite being visual spectacles unlike anything we've seen on tv. It culminated in the Kings landing battle where Danerys burns down everything in the most spectacular fashion possible but its shot in a way that the viewer is almost detached from the action because dany is never seen again after she decides to attack. her turning mad was not sold to the viewer properly and played for shock value and it all just fell apart as the audience just checked out completely.
i felt that way when rhenys turned around not once but three times in a suicide charge against a much bigger dragon. it made zero sense and even a teenage aemond knew better than to take on three dragons later in episode 7. so while that rook's rest battle was amazing, the actual writing and character motivations simply didnt make sense.
the big war episodes in game of thrones also had really poor dialogue where as blackwater has some of the most memorable tyrion interactions with the hound and joffrey while cersei and sansa also had some great scenes together despite not taking part in the battle. sansa was fucking useless in the long night episode and a total idiot in the battle of bastards episode.
Thaedolus
Member
The Long Night…it should’ve been a season in and of itself. You have 7 seasons building up to this existential threat to the entire world and you end it in one episode with a little dagger trickery. I mean, that season started off with a lot of promise, but they clearly just wanted to be done with it. Then off to King’s Landing and btw Dany is cray cray.
Man it hurts even thinking about it still.
Man it hurts even thinking about it still.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
Never understood people thinking Dany wasnt crazy. The signs were there the whole time.
Thaedolus
Member
Oh we all could see it coming, just like Jon’s true heritage, it’s just that the show didn’t earn it IMO.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ive read some excerpts in the books that do a far better job of that than the show ever did. The show repeatedly goes out of its way to justify her decisions and make her seem moral and normal. even when she burned the Tarlys, she gave them an out.
The show turned her mad in a span of one episode when she lost her dragon and missandre. im sorry but one episode is not enough when you had 8 seasons to lay down the breadcrumbs which they never did.
Regardless, even if they had done that the actual burning of kings landing still doesnt make sense. She was mad at Cersei so burn down kings landing. Why burn down the city?
It's just poor writing. These characters and books are way too complex for tv writers hired by HBO. They were given the ending by George R.R Martin literally four years before they shot the final season and they still couldnt make it make sense. Dany going mad all of a sudden wasnt the only thing that didnt make sense. Bran becoming king and Jon's only purpose being killing Dany didnt make any sense either.
Season 2 of House of Dragon has the same shitty writing where they have the source material of actual events that go down but they are unable to fill in the blanks without making characters look like fucking idiots.
Little Mac
Member
Just watched the finale.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
They did the future look as well. But in ep 1, they hinted at it during the scene at the wall stating something along the lines of there being a greater threat they were there for, and then in the finale Daemon said there is a much bigger war to be fought after Kings Landing and everyone will need to be united to defeat it.
Edit: Unless they’re all talking however many years later.
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newtypepilot
Member
what a fucking disappointing season, literally buildup to nothing. It's amazing how this show can degrade so significantly when one showrunner leaves. Why would the writers think this is a good way to end a season? This should've been episode 6 or 7.
Is Helena just a Bran 2.0?? Did she forget Daemon had her son killed?
Why is Otto locked up at the end montage?
It feels like they had no clue on what to do with this season. The plot moves at glacial pace. Despite only 8 episodes, there are so many unnecessary scenes that contributes to nothing.
This season the show has consistently preach feminism in your face but the writers are so bad they even fail at that. Both Alicent and Rhaenyra constantly make bad decisions and fail to think critically. Alicent meeting her this episode is so forced and stupid. Forget that it's another "sneak into enemy HQ and have a chat" cliche. Why would Alicent sell out her own children?? It makes no fucking sense. "Sorry I started this mess in the first place. Things have completely backfired on me, so even though you are my enemy now, still BFF, k?!!" It's like they want to shoehorn another scene with them together but they didn't bother to consider whether it makes sense narratively.
Oh yeah, Daemon's younger daughter (forgot her name) abandoning her step siblings to chase a dragon is also laughably dumb. But something something "strong woman" I guess.
I think it's a complete misopportunity that they don't touch on new dragonriders being incapable fighters. Just because you have a dragon doesn't mean you can pilot one, let alone engage in aerial combat. Rhaenyra's son died because Aemond couldn't control his dragon.
Also noticed that in Cole's scenes, the depth of field was definitely way overtuned. It looks so bad.
Just disappointed how much this season has nosedived.
Is Helena just a Bran 2.0?? Did she forget Daemon had her son killed?
Why is Otto locked up at the end montage?
It feels like they had no clue on what to do with this season. The plot moves at glacial pace. Despite only 8 episodes, there are so many unnecessary scenes that contributes to nothing.
This season the show has consistently preach feminism in your face but the writers are so bad they even fail at that. Both Alicent and Rhaenyra constantly make bad decisions and fail to think critically. Alicent meeting her this episode is so forced and stupid. Forget that it's another "sneak into enemy HQ and have a chat" cliche. Why would Alicent sell out her own children?? It makes no fucking sense. "Sorry I started this mess in the first place. Things have completely backfired on me, so even though you are my enemy now, still BFF, k?!!" It's like they want to shoehorn another scene with them together but they didn't bother to consider whether it makes sense narratively.
Oh yeah, Daemon's younger daughter (forgot her name) abandoning her step siblings to chase a dragon is also laughably dumb. But something something "strong woman" I guess.
I think it's a complete misopportunity that they don't touch on new dragonriders being incapable fighters. Just because you have a dragon doesn't mean you can pilot one, let alone engage in aerial combat. Rhaenyra's son died because Aemond couldn't control his dragon.
Also noticed that in Cole's scenes, the depth of field was definitely way overtuned. It looks so bad.
Just disappointed how much this season has nosedived.
negator2vc
Member
WTF!??? The finale was terrible!
The whole season was just lousy dialogues, 1 mediocre at best battle scene & several episodes of Daemon stupid dreams.
Αfter this season of HotD I have zero hope that 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' will be anything good.
The whole season was just lousy dialogues, 1 mediocre at best battle scene & several episodes of Daemon stupid dreams.
Αfter this season of HotD I have zero hope that 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' will be anything good.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I was expecting her to throw Aemond under the bus to save Aegon but nope.
Werewolf Jones
Member
A lot of really good character interaction scenes and build up once again. I'm so glad they went into panic mode and it's 4 seasons and all, the blow back made them wake the fuck up.
I didn't think it was THAT bad, had some peak GoT moments, Daemon got to act like a toxic male character again and Ulf is a really entertaining character.
You know what WAS bad though? Alicent being like "I kinda caused this war but can we call it quits?
I just wanna be a normie haha."
For a show about female empowerment you made this bitch look so fucking weak. Lmao.
Season is a 6/10 overall. Some good episodes and some bad ones, any worse and I'm out but S3 will be where shit SHOULD get amazing.
I didn't think it was THAT bad, had some peak GoT moments, Daemon got to act like a toxic male character again and Ulf is a really entertaining character.
You know what WAS bad though? Alicent being like "I kinda caused this war but can we call it quits?
I just wanna be a normie haha."For a show about female empowerment you made this bitch look so fucking weak. Lmao.
Season is a 6/10 overall. Some good episodes and some bad ones, any worse and I'm out but S3 will be where shit SHOULD get amazing.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Really!? What kind of season finale is this!?
Well this whole season was terrible for a variety of reasons
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
It's not as successful as Game of Thrones, but it still makes me eagerly await the new episodes. I read that it covers half of one book. You're making an eight season series from seven books(five of which have been written), and a four season series from half a book. In this case, it's normal for it to progress so slowly. The worst part is that there will be a break of nearly two years.
rogr rogr
Member
Seriously, did they really need to introduce this terrible non-binary character in the last episode of the season?Well this whole season was terrible for a variety of reasons
Madflavor
Member
Look at medieval warm films like Braveheart, Kingdom of Heaven, El Cid, and many others, and how much they manage to accomplish and show in 3 hours. Why does a TV series need 8+ hours of episodes to get to the actual war? The war has started, but we need 8-10 hours of moving the chess pieces around before we get to the good stuff. Come on man, there's no excuse for this.