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[kunonabi]

AoL on the whole is a much better game than people give it credit for.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

AoL on the whole is a much better game than people give it credit for.

I don't blame them. Both the beginning and the end are ridiculously difficult and it does some 8-bit nonsense that grates on modern players' nerves, like making you lose all your EXP and making you start from the same place every time you get Game Over. Once you get the hammer, though, the whole world opens up and you're strong enough to take on most anything with some moderate skill.
My assessment of it is that it's poorly paced. Everything between getting that hammer and the trudge up to the Great Palace is glorious, though.

 

[watershed]

Looks like Miyamoto might direct Zelda WiiU personally: http://www.p-nintendo.com/news/miyamoto-veut-s-occuper-de-zelda-wii-u-230369

"During the evening, all the big names of Nintendo have made an appearance, as Eiji Aonuma, Koji Kondo and Shigeru Miyamoto, of course. The latter, occurring several times, even said so quite official that he will personally take care of the next Zelda on Wii U."

Not sure about that source, though.

So less story and fewer cutscenes? I bet Miyamoto is just itching to do an hd game. Who knows maybe he's always had a dream zelda project floating around in his head and now the wii u can finally realize his dreams.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Oh yeah, another annoying thing AoL does: making you load a spell before using it. Damn it, game, you should know that the first thing I'll pull out in a new area is going to be Shield, so why not make that the default instead of nothing? Also, Engrish.

Another thing to do early on is to ignore your Life and Magic stats completely to concentrate on attack. Once your attack is high enough, the others will fall into place on their own.

 

[Anth0ny]

Oh yeah, another annoying thing AoL does: making you load a spell before using it. Damn it, game, you should know that the first thing I'll pull out in a new area is going to be Shield, so why not make that the default instead of nothing? Also, Engrish.

Another thing to do early on is to ignore your Life and Magic stats completely to concentrate on attack. Once your attack is high enough, the others will fall into place on their own.

I didn't even know you could focus on a certain stat, so I was leveling up each stat evenly ; _ ;


And that Miyamoto news sounds awesome!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I didn't even know you could focus on a certain stat, so I was leveling up each stat evenly ; _ ;

Yeah, when the level-up screen comes up and you've reached a stat you don't want to build, use the arrow keys to choose "Cancel", you won't level up that stat and keep the EXP you have. The screen will come up again when you reach the minimum for the next cheapest level-up. I don't know what happens if you hit cancel on all three though.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Another thing to do early on is to ignore your Life and Magic stats completely to concentrate on attack. Once your attack is high enough, the others will fall into place on their own.

That's really the only easy

Spoiler

-ish

way to play. When I first played the game as a kid, I tried leveling up every stat equally and didn't understand why it was so frustrating. I focused on attack and the game went much, much smoother.

The pacing is still rough, but it's a great game if you can learn how to exploit the mechanics.

 

[HylianScribe]

I don't blame them. Both the beginning and the end are ridiculously difficult and it does some 8-bit nonsense that grates on modern players' nerves, like making you lose all your EXP and making you start from the same place every time you get Game Over. Once you get the hammer, though, the whole world opens up and you're strong enough to take on most anything with some moderate skill.
My assessment of it is that it's poorly paced. Everything between getting that hammer and the trudge up to the Great Palace is glorious, though.

So, it's like Demon's/Dark Souls. At least we're not whining about the controls in that game. In some alternate universe, Zelda II was well received, and the series went in a wildly different direction. I'd like to take a peek at that reality.

 

[Gravijah]

So, it's like Demon's/Dark Souls. At least we're not whining about the controls in that game. In some alternate universe, Zelda II was well received, and the series went in a wildly different direction. I'd like to take a peek at that reality.

except the difficulty in souls games is completely different from zelda ii.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

That's really the only easy

Spoiler

-ish

way to play. When I first played the game as a kid, I tried leveling up every stat equally and didn't understand why it was so frustrating. I focused on attack and the game went much, much smoother.

The pacing is still rough, but it's a great game if you can learn how to exploit the mechanics.

Indeed. It's amazing what a difference being able to one or two hit kill enemies makes to your longevity, regardless of how much health you happen to have.

 

[Hypatia]

You guys are making me want to try AoL again now. I wonder where I put my collectors disc...

 

[Rikkun]

Whoa, I could try this.

I just dropped a TP replay after falling asleep while roaming around the Forest Temple.
I literally fell asleep, sit on my simple wood chair, while holding my GC pad. I finally went away from that stupid chest I couldn't reach, away from that stupid boomerang I just got, away from those bald-ass monkeys and had a wonderful 2 minutes long trip. Woke up with a simple idea, stuck in my mind.

Spoiler

Twilight Princess sucks.

Now give me my 3DS with AoL and Tingle.

 

[shadyspace]

Whoa, I could try this.

I just dropped a TP replay after falling asleep while roaming around the Forest Temple.
I literally fell asleep, sit on my simple wood chair, while holding my GC pad. I finally went away from that stupid chest I couldn't reach, away from that stupid boomerang I just got, away from those bald-ass monkeys and had a wonderful 2 minutes long trip. Woke up with a simple idea, stuck in my mind.

Spoiler

Twilight Princess sucks.

Now give me my 3DS with AoL and Tingle.

lol

 

[Mistle]

I'm down for a Miyamoto handled HD Zelda.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Whoa, I could try this.

I just dropped a TP replay after falling asleep while roaming around the Forest Temple.
I literally fell asleep, sit on my simple wood chair, while holding my GC pad. I finally went away from that stupid chest I couldn't reach, away from that stupid boomerang I just got, away from those bald-ass monkeys and had a wonderful 2 minutes long trip. Woke up with a simple idea, stuck in my mind.

Spoiler

Twilight Princess sucks.

Now give me my 3DS with AoL and Tingle.

I know how you feel. I'm replaying it right now because I remember not really liking it but I don't remember why.

Now I know. It's boring as hell. Even past that excruciatingly long hunt for the tears. Even when you get the spinner. It's just plain boring until the last few parts of the game.

Yes, there are areas that are gorgeous. And yes, some of the combat is fun (though I hate, hate, hate trying to shield bash with the nunchuk). And yes, I suppose if you really care about the story, there's enough there to gnaw on. But a friend wanted me to play through Ocarina of Time while he watched, and there's really no doubt that it's the better game, even if TP refined some of its elements.

And can we have just one more truly 2D, sprite-based game? I know they aren't the most popular thing anymore, but all of them - even Minish Cap, my least favorite - have an accessible fun quality to them that would be perfect as part of a new 3DS game.

 

[shadyspace]

I'll read tons of effusive praise about TP from a lot of Zelda-GAF and start questioning my opinion of it and think maybe a replay is in order. Then I'll read a post from a sane person and think, "Oh, right."

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'll read tons of effusive praise about TP from a lot of Zelda-GAF and start questioning my opinion of it and think maybe a replay is in order. Then I'll read a post from a sane person and think, "Oh, right."

The beginning is boring but it's still an amazing game, with a staggering amount of content, and the best dungeons and boss battles in the entire series.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Twilight Princess is a good game, but it doesn't have anything to make it seem fresh like Ocarina, Mask, and Wind Waker were.

 

[shadyspace]

The beginning is boring but it's still an amazing game, with a staggering amount of content, and the best dungeons and boss battles in the entire series.

I'd probably agree if dungeons and boss battles were what I liked the most about Zelda games.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'd probably agree if dungeons and boss battles were what I liked the most about Zelda games.

Then what do you like about them? Because you're ignoring what has always been the series' strength.

Edit- This came out more confrontational then I intended. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[shadyspace]

Then what do you like about them? Because you're ignoring what has always been the series' strength.

Edit- This came out more confrontational then I intended. I'm genuinely curious.

I like interacting with sympathetic and well developed NPCs, sidequests that flesh out said NPCs and the greater world they inhabit, interesting and lived-in overworlds to explore, the overall plot (provided a given game's one is of quality). Of course I love the dungeons/boss battles but if I'm being honest I pretty much always initially get a sense of dread when entering one, not because of any impending difficulty (because they typically never are) but because I feel separated from the outside world I so enjoy being a part of. Odd, I know.

Extrapolating this, it's easy to deduce that the two titles I enjoyed the least were TP and ST. It's also why I have next to no interest in the early NES Zelda titles.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I like interacting with sympathetic and well developed NPCs, sidequests that flesh out said NPCs and the greater world they inhabit, interesting and lived-in overworlds to explore, the overall plot (provided a given game's one is of quality). Of course I love the dungeons/boss battles but if I'm being honest I pretty much always initially get a sense of dread when entering one, not because of any impending difficulty (because they typically never are) but because I feel separated from the outside world I so enjoy being a part of. Odd, I know.

Extrapolating this, it's easy to deduce that the two titles I enjoyed the least were TP and ST. It's also why I have next to no interest in the early NES Zelda titles.

Was your first Zelda OoT by chance?

 

[shadyspace]

Was your first Zelda OoT by chance?

Of course lol.

 

[RagnarokX]

I like interacting with sympathetic and well developed NPCs, sidequests that flesh out said NPCs and the greater world they inhabit, interesting and lived-in overworlds to explore, the overall plot (provided a given game's one is of quality). Of course I love the dungeons/boss battles but if I'm being honest I pretty much always initially get a sense of dread when entering one, not because of any impending difficulty (because they typically never are) but because I feel separated from the outside world I so enjoy being a part of. Odd, I know.

Extrapolating this, it's easy to deduce that the two titles I enjoyed the least were TP and ST. It's also why I have next to no interest in the early NES Zelda titles.

If characters and plot are your favorite things ST should have been your favorite game just for Princess Zelda alone.

 

[shadyspace]

If characters and plot are your favorite things ST should have been your favorite game just for Princess Zelda alone.

See: interesting overworld. I submit that the train was the worst thing ever put in a non-CDi Zelda game.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Of course lol.

Ah, you should have gotten in earlier.

 

[shadyspace]

Ah, you should have gotten in earlier.

7 years old is about as early as I could I'd imagine.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

7 years old is about as early as I could I'd imagine.

Ah, no wonder you were so enchanted by that game. Break the spell dude!

 

[RagnarokX]

See: interesting overworld. I submit that the train was the worst thing ever put in a non-CDi Zelda game.

Train was better than PH's boat. I found the train to be a challenging minigame. Not necessarily what I want in a Zelda game, but it wasn't bad. The only time the train pissed me off was that one part where you are approaching the underwater temple and suddenly an armored train appears at the gate of the temple, forcing you to loop around. I got boxed in a couple of times, but generally well-thought-out courses would save the day. I felt genuine tension when I'd narrowly avoid a collision.

 

[shadyspace]

Train was better than PH's boat. I found the train to be a challenging minigame. Not necessarily what I want in a Zelda game, but it wasn't bad. The only time the train pissed me off was that one part where you are approaching the underwater temple and suddenly an armored train appears at the gate of the temple, forcing you to loop around. I got boxed in a couple of times, but generally well-thought-out courses would save the day. I felt genuine tension when I'd narrowly avoid a collision.

I can appreciate that viewpoint but I hated the train being a challenging minigame. A restrictive overworld, one in which its a pain in the ass just to simply navigate the map as opposed to it being a joy, is the absolute antithesis of what I want from my Zelda experience. I also loved the boat in PH. Among many other things.

Ah, no wonder you were so enchanted by that game. Break the spell dude!

What was your first Zelda?

 

[Rikkun]

I started with LA when I was 5-6 without even knowing what Zelda was.
Then bought OOT 2-3 years later because a friend got it as a birthday gift and couldn't even get out of kokiri village because we (he) didn't know english and didn't like to play with a dictionary. And I managed to get out of that stupid village... everyone in my classroom with a N64 got that game then, lol.
I still remember we took like 2 weeks to get the master sword after Lord Jabu-Jabu Belly, someone just heard we had to make Link grow up so we left our N64 turned on all night, tried to make him eat beans, talked with every fucker around... "I think mine grew a little, seems taller then before". Good times.


Back to TP... ok it's worse than OOT. and MM. and WW. It's just the worst 3D Zelda, basically.

But way better than Darksiders, that's damn boring and uninspired too. I just don't like the classic fantasy settings.. I like Zelda to have its own style, its own races, colours and all... and people in TP are just.. ugly imo. Ooccas? hah. Wolf Link? Nice way to remember me Okami was way better. And all the transorming stuff remembers me of the Werehog. brr.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

What was your first Zelda?

Link to the Past, even though OoT was already out.

 

[shadyspace]

I started with LA when I was 5-6 without even knowing what Zelda was.
Then bought OOT 2-3 years later because a friend got it as a birthday gift and couldn't even get out of kokiri village because we (he) didn't know english and didn't like to play with a dictionary. And I managed to get out of that stupid village... everyone in my classroom with a N64 got that game then, lol.
I still remember we took like 2 weeks to get the master sword after Lord Jabu-Jabu Belly, someone just heard we had to make Link grow up so we left our N64 turned on all night, tried to make him eat beans, talked with every fucker around... "I think mine grew a little, seems taller then before". Good times.


Back to TP... ok it's worse than OOT. and MM. and WW. It's just the worst 3D Zelda, basically.

But way better than Darksiders, that's damn boring and uninspired too. I just don't like the classic fantasy settings.. I like Zelda to have its own style, its own races, colours and all... and people in TP are just.. ugly imo. Ooccas? hah. Wolf Link? Nice way to remember me Okami was way better. And all the transorming stuff remembers me of the Werehog. brr.

This is the best.

 

[Gravijah]

my first zelda was either a link to the past or the legend of zelda. i'm not really sure which i played first.

 

[Professor Beef]

Mine was Zelda 1, but I was too young and impatient to dig into it. Then I played Link's Awakening a few years later, and never looked back.

 

[RagnarokX]

I'm not totally sure what my first Zelda was. I had an NES but I didn't own Zelda or AoL. After that I got a Genesis and not an SNES and a PSX and not a N64 so... I remember playing Zelda, AoL, and ALttP at my cousin's house, but I never finished them there.

First Zelda I completed was either ALttP GBA or OoT GCN WW preorder disc.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

While I have vivid memories of lusting after that gold cartridge in the window of the store display, my first Zelda was ALttP. My cousins and I borrowed it from a friend and got up to Aghanim, thinking he was the final boss (as did the friend) and could never beat him. Wasn't till years later that I realised we were barely halfway through the game.

 

[Rikkun]

This is the best.

That's what I loved about videogames. I didn't see the limits, so I could try for days to get out of the Castle's courtyard in Mario64. And Mario Kart 64? I used to play versus with my little brother and go exploring every corner of every track. You can imagine how long I roamed Princess Peach Castle's courtyard when I found it.
This kind of stuff was lovely to me, like "hey I heard from my cousin you can travel to a dark world in Harvest Moon if you get to year 30!" or "hey you can talk to Yoshi if you collect all the stars!"

What blew my mind was that some of those things were true, like the tuxedo in MGS, the number island in Pokémon... So I always spent lots of hours searching for things that never existed. I used to buy the Italian Nintendo Magazine and read it like it was the Holy Bible, I still remember some scores, some quotes.. I waited the release day and stalked my newsvendor (?) until he got the latest issue.

And I would do everything again.


Now I get bored even before I fire up a new game thanks to installations.




I must have gone a little ot.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

That's what I loved about videogames. I didn't see the limits, so I could try for days to get out of the Castle's courtyard in Mario64. And Mario Kart 64? I used to play versus with my little brother and go exploring every corner of every track. You can imagine how long I roamed Princess Peach Castle's courtyard when I found it.
This kind of stuff was lovely to me, like "hey I heard from my cousin you can travel to a dark world in Harvest Moon if you get to year 30!" or "hey you can talk to Yoshi if you collect all the stars!"

What blew my mind was that some of those things were true, like the tuxedo in MGS, the number island in Pokémon... So I always spent lots of hours searching for things that never existed. I used to buy the Italian Nintendo Magazine and read it like it was the Holy Bible, I still remember some scores, some quotes.. I waited the release day and stalked my newsvendor (?) until he got the latest issue.

And I would do everything again.


Now I get bored even before I fire up a new game thanks to installations.




I must have gone a little ot.

You've gone and made me go misty-eyed for Super Metroid :')

 

[RagnarokX]

That's what I loved about videogames. I didn't see the limits, so I could try for days to get out of the Castle's courtyard in Mario64. And Mario Kart 64? I used to play versus with my little brother and go exploring every corner of every track. You can imagine how long I roamed Princess Peach Castle's courtyard when I found it.
This kind of stuff was lovely to me, like "hey I heard from my cousin you can travel to a dark world in Harvest Moon if you get to year 30!" or "hey you can talk to Yoshi if you collect all the stars!"

What blew my mind was that some of those things were true, like the tuxedo in MGS, the number island in Pokémon... So I always spent lots of hours searching for things that never existed. I used to buy the Italian Nintendo Magazine and read it like it was the Holy Bible, I still remember some scores, some quotes.. I waited the release day and stalked my newsvendor (?) until he got the latest issue.

And I would do everything again.


Now I get bored even before I fire up a new game thanks to installations.




I must have gone a little ot.

Yeah, those were the days. I found some crazy stuff in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. But that continues to this day. It's still fun to break the limits of games. One of my favorite things about GTA3 was Blue Hell and flying the Dodo.

 

[shadyspace]

That's what I loved about videogames. I didn't see the limits, so I could try for days to get out of the Castle's courtyard in Mario64. And Mario Kart 64? I used to play versus with my little brother and go exploring every corner of every track. You can imagine how long I roamed Princess Peach Castle's courtyard when I found it.
This kind of stuff was lovely to me, like "hey I heard from my cousin you can travel to a dark world in Harvest Moon if you get to year 30!" or "hey you can talk to Yoshi if you collect all the stars!"

What blew my mind was that some of those things were true, like the tuxedo in MGS, the number island in Pokémon... So I always spent lots of hours searching for things that never existed. I used to buy the Italian Nintendo Magazine and read it like it was the Holy Bible, I still remember some scores, some quotes.. I waited the release day and stalked my newsvendor (?) until he got the latest issue.

And I would do everything again.


Now I get bored even before I fire up a new game thanks to installations.




I must have gone a little ot.

Preach brother. I'm from the last generation of those schoolyard rumors.

For our kids it'll be,

"omg did you hear about how you can play as Original Mario in Super Mario Anti-Matter Universe 3?!"

*other kids check their iSub-Dermal 7s*

"No you can't"

"Oh"

"So now what do we talk about?"

 

[Rikkun]

Yeah, those were the days. I found some crazy stuff in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. But that continues to this day. It's still fun to break the limits of games. One of my favorite things about GTA3 was Blue Hell and flying the Dodo.

You're right. I know lots of people who love roaming in GTA. I don't, but whatever.

Just.. GTA3 was 10 years ago.

EDIT:

Preach brother. I'm from the last generation of those schoolyard rumors. Now it's, "omg did you hear about how you can play as Original Mario in Super Mario Anti-Matter Universe 3?!

*other kids check their iPhones*

"No you can't"

"Oh"

"So now what do we talk about?"

Yeah, I'm like that too now. Just I don't need the iPhone, I enjoy reading news and GAF more than I enjoy playing games usually.

That's why I'm going blind with SS and SML3D. Hope Nintendo will somehow make me stupid again.

 

[SecretMoblin]

I had kind of a weird progression; I didn't start with the original, LttP, or Ocarina. Instead, my brothers and I got AoL and played it over and over and over again until we mastered it. Then the kids got Game Boys and LA, and by then we were fans, so we got the original.

I think starting off with AoL was actually really good for me. The "traditional" Zeldas seemed really exotic and interesting.

 

[EatChildren]

Twilight Princess has the best dungeons in the series. That alone makes up for the horrible, worst in the series pacing.

 

[Rikkun]

Twilight Princess has the best dungeons in the series. That alone makes up for the horrible, worst in the series pacing.

To prove you're wrong I should replay it.

I activate my trap card too, "just say ok"

ok.

 

[EatChildren]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Seriously though, I just replayed it in Dolphin. TP's biggest issues are, in my opinion, that the first 1/3rd of the game has abysmal pacing, mostly due to the abundance of tutorials, cut scenes and tears of light treasure hunts, and that the overworld as a whole is barren and lifeless, too big for its own good. That and TP is just way too easy.

Otherwise I genuinely believe Twilight Princess is home to some of the best dungeons in the entire series. They're long, beautifully paced, and chock full of creative puzzles and ideas. Each has at least one non-item related gimmick, and each also makes great use of their home item. Having a guaranteed sub and final boss battle means you get two solid fights (though too easy), and most require more than just arena based battling, mixing puzzles and different ideas into the battles themselves.

In terms of dungeons, boss battles and interesting items, Twilight Princess is well and truly a high standard for the series in my opinion. Its all the shit that surrounds them that drags the game quality down.

 

[Rikkun]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Seriously though, I just replayed it in Dolphin. TP's biggest issues are, in my opinion, that the first 1/3rd of the game has abysmal pacing, mostly due to the abundance of tutorials, cut scenes and tears of light treasure hunts, and that the overworld as a whole is barren and lifeless, too big for its own good. That and TP is just way too easy.

Otherwise I genuinely believe Twilight Princess is home to some of the best dungeons in the entire series. They're long, beautifully paced, and chock full of creative puzzles and ideas. Each has at least one non-item related gimmick, and each also makes great use of their home item. Having a guaranteed sub and final boss battle means you get two solid fights (though too easy), and most require more than just arena based battling, mixing puzzles and different ideas into the battles themselves.

In terms of dungeons, boss battles and interesting items, Twilight Princess is well and truly a high standard for the series in my opinion. Its all the shit that surrounds them that drags the game quality down.

I guess I'll give it another shot.

Emulated.

Through my Wii.

On my HDTV.

 

[BY2K]

It has some of the best, but it also has some of the worst.

Snowpeak and Arbiter's Ground are amazing. Lakebed Temple is also nice.

City in the Sky (aside from having the best item in the series ever, the Double Clawshot) and the Temple of Time are crap. (The Temple of Time's dungeon doesn't even have anything to do with the Temple itself, it was just some underground part of it that was probably there before the Temple was built.)

 

[Gravijah]

It has some of the best, but it also has some of the worst.

Snowpeak and Arbiter's Ground are amazing. Lakebed Temple is also nice.

City in the Sky (aside from having the best item in the series ever, the Double Clawshot) and the Temple of Time are crap. (The Temple of Time's dungeon doesn't even have anything to do with the Temple itself, it was just some underground part of it that was probably there before the Temple was built.)

did you just call city in the sky crap

s m h

 

[Green Mamba]

The City in the Sky is crap. Boring to look at, annoying to listen to, with only one puzzle worth noting.

By and large I wasn't impressed by TP's dungeons. There were a few standouts, but for the most part I just felt like I was on autopilot the whole time.