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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
To be fair,
she isn't mentioning she needs anyone in particular, and you get that message after doing some side jobs for her and her father that, too, unlock over time. It's a bit of a leap of logic to guess you need to look for a mogma from what she says, instead of imagining you'll be the one having to do it later on.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
On
the elevated platform right in front of the frog head, do a thrust attack through the hole in the fence to pick up the water plant with your sword.
Afterwards, just throw the plant to the frog!
Afterwards, just throw the plant to the frog!
Ridleyscott
Banned
Zelda is supposed to be an Action-RPG genre. An RPG streamlined just enough to emphasize the reflex requiring action of the arcade-styled games. That means you focus purely on game-play, no chatting, and all this - should be kept to a minimum, only occurring in passing (only what necessary to continue gameplay). Gameplay should not be interrupted.
That is essentially what Zelda was initially designed as with Zelda I and II. Look at the overworld map in Zelda II - that is classic RPG (Dragon Warrior, FF, etc.). Zelda II was like taking DW and mixing it with strider action or something but within its own theme. And then Zelda I was like AD&D with a larger focus on action and overworld, but using that screen-to-screen concept and dangerous world.
I don't see any of that anymore. Gone are most of the main rpg elements and gone is that fast-paced, heart-pounding action. Things that don't belong in the Zelda world: Beetle bugerangs, vacuum cleaners and leaf blowers, Thomas the spirit train, talking boats, etc.).
A good start for modern Zelda would be to take a popular modern RPG like Elder Scrolls and even elements of games as far back as Baldur's gate, streamline the character interaction to basic dialogue - not much more than was in Zelda II (some of you like character development and all this but this is not what the console, Zelda experience is about), streamline the leveling just a bit (enough that it is still interesting), streamline magic, items, etc. (We don't need hundreds of different weapons, just 2 or 3 "achievement" iterations on the common ones). Make things video-gamey to an extent, with just enough touch of refinement that it seems genuine - nothing "fruity", or Fisher-Price like. Color is good but Way Too Much "fruit" and "playskool" in Zelda today - but none of this overly brown and grey super-realism stuff. Video-game/arcade-like sound effects and music (catchy music with triumphal title-screen and main theme). When enemies die, they do the video-game old-school Zelda-like explosion (I think they've always kept this around, it just needs a bit flashier animation and sound - not a poof). Junk the cut-scenes completely, keeping one for the post title-screen for those interested; and one, to-the-point, final reward cut-scene. Junk all tutorials and initial in-game ramping-up period. Hit start, select your profile and immediately you are playing the actual game.
For the action, this is tougher, this is where the complex control and camera programming comes in; this is where most developers fear to tread - this is hard. This takes a serious engineering and methodical mindset rather than a creative one.
Controls in console games like Zelda were traditionally about precision (totally lacking today in almost All modern games, the ones that have it don't excel in all areas): stabbing exactly where you want to and doing it quickly(like you can stab your sword 5 times a second qucikly); jumping exactly as far as you need to; quick but smooth responsiveness to direction change; translating with good pacing and responsive, not overly jerky like most 3D games today. If you can make your character spin around like an idiot by swirling the stick - I call this the dradle-effect [zelda is guilty]; if while moving in some direction your character can go from angling or running/walking from right to left in split seconds - you know this, it is a problem in every 3rd person game since 3D - the character doesn't naturally transition - this is ultimately caused by the dradle-effect [zelda is guilty]; or if there is no sense of momentum or weight to your character - your character can either go full-speed from a standstill or can come to a complete stop after running [zelda is guilty]; then whatever game you are playing is guilty of shoddy, lazily-designed controls rather than the tight precision of the 2D generation; that is just about every game of the 3D generation. The reason this is so prevalent is because it is hard to nail (especially in 3D) - many 2D developers couldn't do this and now they moved into 3D. Zelda's controls and action should be the absolute standard of video games.
Camera... this is huge since it goes hand-in-hand with controls. You cannot have tight precise controls without a camera that is always on-point. the camera has to make the scene believable and playable, it has to be positioned in ALL cases to give the player the best perspective in whatever they are trying to do. The player must not be required to control their camera - shouldn't have to think about it. At no time should your character be walking into the camera, unless the player hits a button to get a rear-view. The camera, if 3rd person and not over-the-top or side-view, should always be pointing in the direction that your character is running; if you start veering to the right, the camera should swing just enough over your left shoulder to show that area - the angle should change according to how tight a turn you are making. But I could get into details about this. Zelda's camera system is just functional enough so that the game is playable, but is in no way the standard (it should be). Most game cameras suck, even in the really good games.
Scenarios like caves, bridges, mountain passes, narrow paths/hallways should be handled in 2.5D rather than full 3D. why? because there is absolutely no reason why you need to be able to walk and spin around in every square inch of a 5 ft wide cave - plus, there is awesome Zelda II style gameplay to be had here. Dungeons should be a mix of side-scroll and over-the-top and 3rd 3D depending on the design. They should be more like Zelda I and II meets diablo, meets your modern computer rpg (Skyrim/Demonsouls). No more puzzles. But, secret passages, secret treasures, etc. (that are and aren't required), absolutely. Dungeons should be freaking scary and dangerous with dark but catchy video game music not cinematic music. They should be easy to get lost in and difficult to make it through - you should actually need a map and compass rather than including them for nostalgia.
Anyway, that is more than enough for now.
That is essentially what Zelda was initially designed as with Zelda I and II. Look at the overworld map in Zelda II - that is classic RPG (Dragon Warrior, FF, etc.). Zelda II was like taking DW and mixing it with strider action or something but within its own theme. And then Zelda I was like AD&D with a larger focus on action and overworld, but using that screen-to-screen concept and dangerous world.
I don't see any of that anymore. Gone are most of the main rpg elements and gone is that fast-paced, heart-pounding action. Things that don't belong in the Zelda world: Beetle bugerangs, vacuum cleaners and leaf blowers, Thomas the spirit train, talking boats, etc.).
A good start for modern Zelda would be to take a popular modern RPG like Elder Scrolls and even elements of games as far back as Baldur's gate, streamline the character interaction to basic dialogue - not much more than was in Zelda II (some of you like character development and all this but this is not what the console, Zelda experience is about), streamline the leveling just a bit (enough that it is still interesting), streamline magic, items, etc. (We don't need hundreds of different weapons, just 2 or 3 "achievement" iterations on the common ones). Make things video-gamey to an extent, with just enough touch of refinement that it seems genuine - nothing "fruity", or Fisher-Price like. Color is good but Way Too Much "fruit" and "playskool" in Zelda today - but none of this overly brown and grey super-realism stuff. Video-game/arcade-like sound effects and music (catchy music with triumphal title-screen and main theme). When enemies die, they do the video-game old-school Zelda-like explosion (I think they've always kept this around, it just needs a bit flashier animation and sound - not a poof). Junk the cut-scenes completely, keeping one for the post title-screen for those interested; and one, to-the-point, final reward cut-scene. Junk all tutorials and initial in-game ramping-up period. Hit start, select your profile and immediately you are playing the actual game.
For the action, this is tougher, this is where the complex control and camera programming comes in; this is where most developers fear to tread - this is hard. This takes a serious engineering and methodical mindset rather than a creative one.
Controls in console games like Zelda were traditionally about precision (totally lacking today in almost All modern games, the ones that have it don't excel in all areas): stabbing exactly where you want to and doing it quickly(like you can stab your sword 5 times a second qucikly); jumping exactly as far as you need to; quick but smooth responsiveness to direction change; translating with good pacing and responsive, not overly jerky like most 3D games today. If you can make your character spin around like an idiot by swirling the stick - I call this the dradle-effect [zelda is guilty]; if while moving in some direction your character can go from angling or running/walking from right to left in split seconds - you know this, it is a problem in every 3rd person game since 3D - the character doesn't naturally transition - this is ultimately caused by the dradle-effect [zelda is guilty]; or if there is no sense of momentum or weight to your character - your character can either go full-speed from a standstill or can come to a complete stop after running [zelda is guilty]; then whatever game you are playing is guilty of shoddy, lazily-designed controls rather than the tight precision of the 2D generation; that is just about every game of the 3D generation. The reason this is so prevalent is because it is hard to nail (especially in 3D) - many 2D developers couldn't do this and now they moved into 3D. Zelda's controls and action should be the absolute standard of video games.
Camera... this is huge since it goes hand-in-hand with controls. You cannot have tight precise controls without a camera that is always on-point. the camera has to make the scene believable and playable, it has to be positioned in ALL cases to give the player the best perspective in whatever they are trying to do. The player must not be required to control their camera - shouldn't have to think about it. At no time should your character be walking into the camera, unless the player hits a button to get a rear-view. The camera, if 3rd person and not over-the-top or side-view, should always be pointing in the direction that your character is running; if you start veering to the right, the camera should swing just enough over your left shoulder to show that area - the angle should change according to how tight a turn you are making. But I could get into details about this. Zelda's camera system is just functional enough so that the game is playable, but is in no way the standard (it should be). Most game cameras suck, even in the really good games.
Scenarios like caves, bridges, mountain passes, narrow paths/hallways should be handled in 2.5D rather than full 3D. why? because there is absolutely no reason why you need to be able to walk and spin around in every square inch of a 5 ft wide cave - plus, there is awesome Zelda II style gameplay to be had here. Dungeons should be a mix of side-scroll and over-the-top and 3rd 3D depending on the design. They should be more like Zelda I and II meets diablo, meets your modern computer rpg (Skyrim/Demonsouls). No more puzzles. But, secret passages, secret treasures, etc. (that are and aren't required), absolutely. Dungeons should be freaking scary and dangerous with dark but catchy video game music not cinematic music. They should be easy to get lost in and difficult to make it through - you should actually need a map and compass rather than including them for nostalgia.
Anyway, that is more than enough for now.
If you're talking about the sword, it recalibrates by pointing towards the screen.
If you're talking about aiming, it actually works more like a mouse than a pointer. You set a neutral position when you activate anything that uses aiming, and move from there in any direction (ie. you move right from the neutral position and your aim moves right), regardless of where the remote is pointing at. If the neutral position doesn't feel comfortable, you can press down on the D-pad to re-center.
Is it any kind of water? I'll save myself the trouble and fill an empty bottle in this puddle I found right now!
Okay so I've been trying to get into the 2nd dungeon (lol) since this game really blurs the line between temple and general exploring.
I have to say I love everything so far. The motion controls, the puzzles, the combat, the exploration, it's wonderful. I'm getting lost in exploration just trying to get to the dungeon, it's great!
The only thing that has gotten close to offending me is the bomb rolling and trying to fight bokoblins (I'm still unsure which direction corresponds to which way they hold the sword). But in general the motion controls work perfectly fine for me and add a lot of giddy satisfaction to the controls. I like "tossing" and "rolling" bombs and "flying" my bird and beetle and raising my sword skyward. It's awwwwwesome.
So far, best Zeruda ever (minus the charm and perfection of Majora's Mask :<)
RoadHazard
Gold Member
...but then there's also the map screen and the menu you get to by pressing 1. Those don't follow the same rules as the aiming does, and I often found that my pointer had drifted away when I opened them.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I've completed two SR sections and really enjoyed them both. I just entered the new area of the desert upon returning for a second time and I'm super keen to see what they do with it. I had to leave for work though. Damn.
Electivirus
Member
Finally taking an extended break. I've been playing for 5 straight days and have ~35 hours after beating the 4th dungeon. @_@
Such a spectacular game. Easily my GotY so far.
Such a spectacular game. Easily my GotY so far.
Pushing down on the directional pad re-centers the cursor during any pointing-type action.
Boy, I sure do wish that CD was just an OST instead of the anniversary performance. Here's hoping it will pop up on Club Nintendo so I have something worthwhile to spend all these points on.
Wow.......how the hell was I supposed to figure that out? There wasn't really anything hinting at that at all.
Uhm, I didn't find them to work differently (except, perhaps, a more sensitive cursor).
Electivirus
Member
PokéKong;32943134 said:
It will!
In Japan.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
PokéKong;32943134 said:
Yeah, except when you're using the B or - selection wheels (where the pointer can also drift). No way to re-center there.
They do work differently. Like you said, when aiming the way you're pointing the Wiimote when pressing the button becomes the neutral position, and the crosshair always appears at the center of the screen. This is not the case with those menus. If you press 1 or + with the Wiimote pointed to the left or right, that's where the pointer will appear (unless it has drifted). It's as if it's emulating IR pointing, only it's less accurate and more prone to drifting (which IR pointing is obviously not at all).
Yep. Again,
I have both the Faron and Lanayru songs, and Fi tells me that I should go to Eldin to get the last one. It just doesn't work, the sequence never triggers as I land there.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Please tell me you're joking. Please. You're not are you. Fuck.
Zelda was only ever an RPG in Zelda 2. The rest of the time it's been an action-adventure game. Not an RPG. And get rid of puzzles in dungeons? Seriously?
Ugh, this response is already far too long.
yankeeforever2
Member
Birds are impossible to catch!
Even if the sequence doesn't trigger, can you still go to
the Fire Dragon's place?
You are the 3rd person to complain about this, so we might have a case of game breaking bug here.
I agree with this. His dream Zelda would be most people's boring nightmare game.
the Zelda world is supposed to be filled with colorful whimsical things and challenging puzzles. This is part of why the series is charming. Links Awakening had a flying carnival whale and a giant egg on a mountain for fucks sake, and it only got weirder from there. Zelda 1 actually kind of bored me because while it had a lot of rewards for exploration, started many trends in the genre, and was limited in tech, it wasn't really that creative in terms of designs.
Slurpy2k20
Member
Make sure you've upgraded your net. Approach them sloooooowly, then swing from the side.
iAmMaximus
Member
Going to make a quick trek to my Walmart for the controller bundle soon. It'll be my first Zelda 
And this is why Zelda can never satisfy everyone. Everyone has a different idea of what the series "should" be.
Except that's been part of the Zelda experience for numerous games. Zelda II is the outlier if anything.
Hobbestetrician
Member
We get it, you really like the first two games and hate the more recent games. Enough already. The series has changed whether you like it or not. While the first few games had certain elements that connected them, those elements have been discarded from the series in favor of other things you do not enjoy. You like the Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link, you do not like the Legend of Zelda series. We are no longer in the NES era and the series has evolved. Crying about how a game was 25 years ago is pointless.
EmCeeGramr
Member
BTW, the last little section and final fights of the game is incredibly intense and really challenging. I died twice, and I had actually prepared for one of those parts with two potions beforehand.
The last boss fight had me down 1 full heal potion, 2 regular potions, and still win WITH ONE HEART LEFT HELL YES
Hero Mode is going to be crazy.
The last boss fight had me down 1 full heal potion, 2 regular potions, and still win WITH ONE HEART LEFT HELL YES
Hero Mode is going to be crazy.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
As a response to your lengthy argument, I just want to say this: if you want to play Elder Scrolls, just go out there and play Skyrim for 100 hours.
Do not change Zelda into something that is just not Zelda.
It's the only puzzle in the game that halted my progress for quite a while. Until I finally said to myself... "Huh.... let's try this..." Imagine my surprise that it actually works!
EmCeeGramr said:
The last boss fight is actually surprisingly easy for me... once I discovered a particular trick.
The boss fight that gave the most problem is the
Imprisoned part two
EmCeeGramr
Member
Please stop responding to Ridleyscott he thinks Uncharted and all other third-person games should be on a 2D plane and that all first-person games as a genre are fundamentally broken.
EmCeeGramr
Member
There's some really good music in this game that is only used in a few areas or events:
Groose's Theme
The bamboo island theme (it sounds like something from DKC, it's really good)
Also the miniboss theme is absolutely fantastic.
Groose's Theme
Batreaux's Theme
Scrapper's Theme
Also the miniboss theme is absolutely fantastic.
Going to make a quick trek to my Walmart for the controller bundle soon. It'll be my first Zelda
I'm really interested in hearing your impressions. Let us know!
Lol, use Fi.
You don't think he has something with the fruit bit?
Holy crap dudes, you were right: 4th dungeon = Really Good. 4th's Boss = Absolutely awesome! What a thrill!
I was so excited when I realized I could pick up his sword. The best part of Wind Waker brought into this game.
Ridleyscott
Banned
Nintendo said that is what they were - Action/RPGs. I'm looking for the advertisement now.
What they meant by that is clearly different than what you think they mean. Do you think Nintendo has actually been making mistakes for over half the series' lifetime? The direction the series is going in is deliberate.
Ridleyscott
Banned
But Nintendo wants to sell more and more copies of their games. That is why they are doing all this ridiculous stuff trying to make things easier for people to get into. The games don't go beyond a certain threshold because they aren't made in th e vein that made them popular to begin with. As long as they continue to appeal to you, they aren't going to appeal to the broader base of customers. they could be appealing to you, people who play games like Skyrim but neglect modern Zelda and people who don't play these drawn-out bore fests.
Ridleyscott
Banned
No, they specifically said that Zelda combines the action of the arcades and the experience of the RPG - not in those exact words.
Yes, they intentionally abandoned that formula to make PuzZelda because they prefer to make that kind of game - it is easier for them. they can focus on all sorts of silly crap like characters, boring story telling, and puzzles. They don't have to actually do the hard work that I described above.
Garcia
Member
That's exactly how I'm playing this game. I'm 34 hours in and I just completed the 4th dungeon. I'll take a small detour from
restoring the sword
time to stock up on Beast Fangs!
crazy monkey
Banned
wtf
EmCeeGramr
Member
NOBAMA PUZZELDA IN MY GOVERNMENT
You remind me of a person I know. He thinks that every game that involves playing a character(thus a role) is a RPG
So even a shooter....
I think the best solution is to have a New Legend of Zelda, the old style top down games with better graphics, and let Nintendo keep experimenting with 3D Zelda.