TheCongressman1
Member
The swimming in TP, now that's pretty bad, iirc. They couldn't really go wrong with WW, sadly.
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
boiled goose
good with gravy
It is actually really confusing for me. When Im underneath it is fine. When im on the surface its fine. But surfacing and diving is just extremely weird.
Im holding the wiimote at an arbitrary position when not in use. I dive suddenly I jerk in a random direction. There is no continuity. I would use the control stick if I could.
The swimming in MM was perfect. They could have easily implemented something similar here, but no, they have to tack on motion controls wherever possible.
I dont mind the swinging and the tightrope walking as much because they are straightforward and short sections. They also add something to gameplay as you can move independently from your swinging and balancing.
Skydiving is of course awesome and couldnt really be replicated with a stick.
Combat is not flawless, but it has its merits.
Flying motion control are talked on, but I guess they are passable.
Swimming is just painful.
TheCongressman1
Member
Like I said before, No. It's not tacked on, you just don't like it. An example of tacked on motion would be if they required you to make a swimming motion while steering with the sick.
Using motion to steer is just like using a joystick. It's an acceptable form of directional input because it is not arbitrary.
The dragons seem hopelessly incompetent in general. "Oops I need more holy water." "Oops I exploded the volcano." "Oops I'm an immortal dragon but I caught a mortal illness."
boiled goose
good with gravy
If the action could be done better with another standard method i consider them tacked on.
Why do the motion controls feel infinitely better for skydiving than for swimming?
For skydiving, link = the controller. You orient the controller and link will match your controllers pitch, roll, and yaw.
For swimming, this instant matching does not happen, instead link slowly turns in the direction you are orienting the controller. There is no immediate feedback. It is essentially a floating analogue stick. Except less accurate.
kinda sets up tww too with FUCK ALL THESE MONSTERS MAN I'LL JUST FUCKING DROWN THEM. actually i thought that part was kinda funny in a really dark way.
TheCongressman1
Member
Well, you'll continue to be wrong. It has nothing to do with what you think is the better form is.
Semantics, bleh.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
boiled goose
good with gravy
So are you saying that I am using the wrong term or that the swimming controls dont actually suck? If tacked on is not the correct terminology then I'll gladly just cal them terrible.
TheCongressman1
Member
"It has nothing to do with what you think is the better form is."
Wrong term. I can understand if it's not for you.
WrenchNinja
Member
If it's just like a using a joystick, why not leave it with the stick control?
That is exactly what the swimming controls are, arbitrary. There's no reason for them to be based on motion controls. You don't walk around with motion controls, you don't swim on the surface with motion controls, why do you suddenly have to ease the controller side to side now when you're underwater? What benefit do you get from that that you don't get from a stick?
boiled goose
good with gravy
exactly. it is not like I am saying all instances of motion control usage are bad. As I mentioned before. Skydiving works great and could not be exactly replicated with a stick.
swimming (as implemented in SS) would be better with a stick.
Controlling all three possible axes of movement I guess, though I'm not sure how much that adds.
rollingstart
Banned
the weird thing is that the stick does nothing when flying or swimming. you'd think you could at least move the camera around or something.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Speaking of swimming controls, Rayman has some of the best underwater levels in a 2D platformer. Buy Rayman Origins.
-- Rayman Origins --
-- Rayman Origins --
TheCongressman1
Member
Do thumb sticks have a complete range of motion? No. They have 360 degrees on a 2D plane. The reason you don't walk with motion is because it isn't needed. All you need is 360 degrees. While swimming can have a full range of movement, all 3 axes.
Haha, that definition has nothing to do with your point, man. But it does prove my point, it would have been arbitrary to make you perform a swimming motion to move. There wouldn't be a need for it.
Edit: I'm guessing the reason they did it this way is because swimming similar to flying in nature, so they had it match the flying controls.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Yes. works for skydiving. (where all three axis accomplish something)
You do not need all 3 axis of turning in the current implementation of swimming. (only two)
Rolling the remote around its axis does nothing for swimming.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I absolutely hate it when games disable the primary movement control. It's why the RE4 "aim with the left stick" control set is so clever. Yes, you have to stand still, but the movement control is directly remapped to aiming, so it makes sense from a weird -- but extremely cool -- UI perspective.
rollingstart
Banned
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
They're... good
rollingstart
Banned
TheCongressman1
Member
My god. Hire this man.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
The camera would be a tad weird. You'd move it, sure, but then all turns on the remote would have to mapped as either character-relative or camera-relative. Camera-relative means you might as well just map movement to the stick, character-relative means weird pseudo-tank controls that would frustrate 99% of players. So... yeah. I'd like it to do something, but I can see why they opted not to.
WrenchNinja
Member
You have buttons on the controller to compensate for that. A would have continued to stay for speed, B is going unused and would have been to let you rise up and down. Or they would have been switched around. Or A would have a dual purpose of speeding up and going up and down. That's what every other game with 3D water levels does. I don't have to twist my wrist around to move in these game. Galaxy did it better than this and its water levels aren't even that great.
Oh I think it does. But hey, I get that you like the controls and want to stick up for it.
Just finished a few minutes ago! Took me ~48 hours.
The journey was excellent, the ending... not that much [but it wasn't bad
Also, I REALLY hate time travel in games.
About the last two boss battles:
3rd [and last] Ghirahim fight >>>>>>>>>>>> Demise.
I found the second part of the Demise battle really cheap. I don't know if I should blame the motion controls or there was something I was missing.
For the first part, not even once he hit me, I got really good with the shield.
For the second part of the battle, the openings for attacking him were almost non-existent (plus the electricity, if it wasn't for the Hylian Shield and a potion, I would have died a second time).
Any thoughts/opinions on that? Maybe I was doing something wrong? First time I felt the sword controls weren't working properly.
When I saw the battle arena, I thought: "YAY FINAL BATTLE WITH A BEAUTIFUL MONET-LIKE SKY, SHOULD BE BETTER THAN TWW", then it all went black and red
Also, it wasn't the most fun (or epic) final battle on a Zelda. TWW and TP still have the crown!
Heck, that last Ghirahim fight and scenes were MUCH better. I also loved his true form and using a Skyward Strike against his own strike felt awesome, like... Link finally got some power to fight back and he's using it
Anyone?
TheCongressman1
Member
What a terrible argument.
Well this separate, completely different franchise does it...soooo...?
No. Just no.
Zelda's for me, it's always been my favorite. But this whole fetch quest nonsense is relatively new to Zelda. And it's terrible.
You'd hope that the developers could design a compelling enough environment that you WANT to explore, not FORCE you to explore. Everything is forced in this, with nary a feeling of finding something for yourself.
You mean something that is organically built into a dungeon that allows you to progress? No. That's completely different.
Nope. It starts with the Kikwi's, then the key shards, and it is unrelenting. None of these 'quests' feel organic. They are just forcing you into fulfilling some pointless task that has NOTHING to do with the main quest.
It will make replaying the game a complete borefest.
Are you playing
in hero mode?
If so, can you tell me some of the differences? Does it streamline some of the game?
I endorse this post.
From what fairly little of it I've played,
you can skip all the cutscenes(which...in typical nintendo fashion, overlooks a small detail that would make an otherwise great thing fairly annoying. The button to skip is large and ALWAYS on the screen). Fi still doesn't shut up. I haven't actually played far enough to get into the first dungeon or into any real combat, but I guess every enemy does double damage and there's no hearts to pick up.
TheCongressman1
Member
You're idea of using face buttons just complicates the process when this works very simply. The only reason I could see anyone go for those controls are because there is a smaller margin for error. For example, I didn't have to contort my wrist to swim like you said you did. The buttons provide the most uniform experience, while being more complicated.
As for your idea of them being arbitrary, there are plenty of reasons that they would want to go with motion. It was far from random or pointless.
WrenchNinja
Member
There's nothing more complicated about pushing a button and pushing the stick in different directions compared to pushing a button and moving your wrist around in different directions.
TheCongressman1
Member
Breaking up the controls to several buttons isn't more complicated than using one joystick?
WrenchNinja
Member
One or two buttons is complicated? It's not like we're turning swimming into a game of Steel Battalion.
It could essentially be the same thing. Hold A + aim the wiimote as-is could be hold A to have link go straight with speed, going in directions based on the control stick.
Right now you actually have a more "complex" setup, when you let go of A you have to use the control stick to move, so there's actually 3 inputs vs. what could be 2. SMG style(shake wiimote to spin, control stick otherwise) would feel more natural for how it is IMO.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I had no issues with swimming.
Even tight turns worked well.
Also holding Z when on your Loftwing puts the camera above you. I hadn't actually noticed that before.
Even tight turns worked well.
Also holding Z when on your Loftwing puts the camera above you. I hadn't actually noticed that before.
I'm playing the Wind Waker right now after finishing Skyward Sword. I dunno, I think I may have to join the 'TWW is best' crowd soon. This game has a lot of modern stuff that modern Zelda's like TP and SS don't have for starters a ton less jaggies and better particle effects.
In some ways TWW feels like a more modern game than both TP and SS. For example, in the Wind Waker you can grab stuff with the R-button and climb on stuff with the A-button. In the other Zelda's they mapped everything on one button. Not to mention there's always full camera control. The graphical style is much more conistent than both SS and TP. The items, textures and geometry all fit in perfectly and you know what, the geometry in TWW is more rich as well. Instead of just flat almost cubic surfaces, like in most of SS, in TWW there's some depth in the walls of the mountains. Bridges aren't like in TP, where it's just one giant wooden plate but are actually made out of several pieces and are breakable.
And despite this game having a few hints, you won't be interupted every minute by some god awful spirit.
In some ways TWW feels like a more modern game than both TP and SS. For example, in the Wind Waker you can grab stuff with the R-button and climb on stuff with the A-button. In the other Zelda's they mapped everything on one button. Not to mention there's always full camera control. The graphical style is much more conistent than both SS and TP. The items, textures and geometry all fit in perfectly and you know what, the geometry in TWW is more rich as well. Instead of just flat almost cubic surfaces, like in most of SS, in TWW there's some depth in the walls of the mountains. Bridges aren't like in TP, where it's just one giant wooden plate but are actually made out of several pieces and are breakable.
And despite this game having a few hints, you won't be interupted every minute by some god awful spirit.
Good god there's backtracking and fetchquesting in this game I'm not always against those things for sure, but SS takes it a bit too far.
Also the swimming works, but there's nothing worthwhile or fun to do under water. I mean literally nothing.
I'm still enjoying the game and I guess I still have one more dungeon to go. But SS has some major flaws and the progression feels too easy, too linear and overly stretched. Like many others have said, this game features some of the best things found in Zelda games and then some really awful decisions and progression. There's no way I would ever replay this game, because I feel 50% of the game is me not playing or thinking at all.
And fuck the goddess cubes. Luckily the other main collection quest is interesting.
I'm not always against those things for sure, but SS takes it a bit too far. Also the swimming works, but there's nothing worthwhile or fun to do under water. I mean literally nothing.
I'm still enjoying the game and I guess I still have one more dungeon to go. But SS has some major flaws and the progression feels too easy, too linear and overly stretched. Like many others have said, this game features some of the best things found in Zelda games and then some really awful decisions and progression. There's no way I would ever replay this game, because I feel 50% of the game is me not playing or thinking at all.
And fuck the goddess cubes. Luckily the other main collection quest is interesting.
Metroid Killer
Member
Had they just completed the two remaining dungeons I think it would have elevated the posthumous praise to the heights of what OoT got at launch.
The easy difficulty was also a concern imo, and the two visits to the forsaken fortress where lowpoints in the game.
Otherwise the game is damn near perfect, the style oozes such a great atmosphere, and it always feels so fresh replaying the game.
The easy difficulty was also a concern imo, and the two visits to the forsaken fortress where lowpoints in the game.
Otherwise the game is damn near perfect, the style oozes such a great atmosphere, and it always feels so fresh replaying the game.
victreeb3l
Member
i liked how in this game you could pick your answers when people asked you questions. i hope in the next one, your answers sorta matter
. maybe not as intricate and complex as mass effect, but something!
i think this is why there will never be a zelda game thats revered by fans so unanimously anymore. people love the series for different things. must be tough to be nintendo sometimes heh.
this was actually my main disappointment with the game.
like they kinda did with the item check girl
We're gonna have to agree to disagree I guess
i think this is why there will never be a zelda game thats revered by fans so unanimously anymore. people love the series for different things. must be tough to be nintendo sometimes heh.
Anyway, just entered the 6th dungeon. Fire.. So far the second dungeon in each area has been very different from the first one, so it's a bit disappointing to see another fire dungeon. Hopefully it either changes up a little or is just really awesome
this was actually my main disappointment with the game.
zelda traditionally conditions you to expecting vastly different regions and areas, so i found it a bit disheartening that dungeon 5 and 6 were just an "expansion" pack to the previous areas. funny how some people LOOOOOOOOOVED these two places but i thought they were the low points in the game so far.
honestly, they were fantastic dungeons. i was just let down by my own expectations
honestly, they were fantastic dungeons. i was just let down by my own expectations
^ but dungeon 5 was
I think the 3 area concept was pulled off fantastically. However, I hope the next Zelda game follows SS's dense surface designs (while still feeling huge), but has you constantly going to new places, not just extensions. Again, even if SS did a good job of it
extremely different from 3! Pirate ship vs mines. It's only 6 that feels similar imo, but it was still different in structure and design.
I think the 3 area concept was pulled off fantastically. However, I hope the next Zelda game follows SS's dense surface designs (while still feeling huge), but has you constantly going to new places, not just extensions. Again, even if SS did a good job of it
Hmm, all the spoilers that I shouldn't have highlighted, but did anyway because I'm way too curious, seem to say that the final boss puts up a tough fight. I pretty much already know who it is, so that's not really a spoiler to me anymore. However, I'm beginning t think that I should take my Master Quest approach to this, and be prepared. And in Master Quest, I got the invincibility spell after the Forest Temple. (Yes, you can do that.)
So... a few questions:
1. Bottles. How many? Are they hard to find?
2.
Potion. When do I get to buy one? Can you carry multiple?
3. The
Shield. Nice to have or need to have for that fight?
4. Heart Pieces. Are there any that are a pain to get? (Already got the
, it was easy when you know the trick.)
Basically, I want to step into the final area with the odds stacked in my favor as much as possible.
EDIT: I am about to figure out how to talk to
(Post dungeon 6 spoiler.)
So... a few questions:
1. Bottles. How many? Are they hard to find?
2.
Guardian
3. The
Hylian
4. Heart Pieces. Are there any that are a pain to get? (Already got the
Fun Fun Island one
Basically, I want to step into the final area with the odds stacked in my favor as much as possible.
EDIT: I am about to figure out how to talk to
the Thunder Dragon, but he looks kind of... dead.
Got the best shield yay
. I think I'm missing a few piece of hearts and NPC quests, but I dunno if I will complete them all. Craving to go into the next dungeon...
Oh and fucking tumbleweed I think I have 10+ items of every kind and zero tumbleweeds, because you need them for every single important upgrade.
didn't even care for what was the final reward
Oh and fucking tumbleweed I think I have 10+ items of every kind and zero tumbleweeds, because you need them for every single important upgrade.
I found a good spot for Tumbleweeds.
Ancient Harbor
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Heh, I getting near the end, and only just now discovered why there are chairs one can sit on. Apparently your health replenishes gradually when you do so. I was low on health and in front of the boss room, wondering why there was a chair randomly placed next to the Save Point. I guess it wasn't so random. ^^;
decoyplatypus
Member
You can use them to power up your potions. I did this exactly once during the game and didn't end up using that potion. Nonetheless, I'd recommend hanging on to your bugs because (1) you're not going to get a good price for them, and (2) you may enjoy super-powered potions.
Do you like powered up potions? If yes, keep the bugs.