Absolutely. It really feels like a way to reuse the same area that you've already explored. Better than in TP, but still absolutely unnecessary.
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
Absolutely. It really feels like a way to reuse the same area that you've already explored. Better than in TP, but still absolutely unnecessary.
base shagohod
Member
So you guys probably don't care, but I'm so excited for this weekend.
I just bought Skyward Sword and my sister is letting me borrow her Wii for the next few weeks until I'm done with it. I sold my Wii a couple months ago, btw.
I just bought Skyward Sword and my sister is letting me borrow her Wii for the next few weeks until I'm done with it. I sold my Wii a couple months ago, btw.
I still don't quite understand the second phase. I did this part several times night before last, and then I finished it on my first try yesterday. I don't understand what I did differently.
I thought 5 was awesome. Cool setting for a dungeon, and it was the only dungeon in the entire game where I had to stop and actually think about what to do next.
Well, one other instance being finding the switch underwater in the first dungeon
Skellig Gra
Member
Man I had that same exact issue, took me like 30 f'in minutes.
This type of post is absurd to me. Nothing to complain about? There's 28 items and bugs to collect, and every single time you start a new session the game tells you about every single one. If you beat the game in a giant marathon session this won't stand out, but the natural way I played it usually had me end a session just as I was starting to pick up repeats without getting notified. There is zero reason for the game to do this beyond the first time you ever pick it up in the game, and is much worse than the rupees in TP which was already complained about a lot when that game came out. This actually interfered with combat at times, and took me OUT of a fight to tell me I picked up my 15th ornamental skull.
Fi is a boring, redundant helper and she ruined two puzzles for me. Inexcusable. From the time of me getting near the end of the third dungeon to being in the post 6th dungeon gameplay, I was on one bar of battery. She told me every single time I started the game up, I think I got it.
The
tadtones
immediately after beating the imprisoned for the third time, you're told the seal is going to break even faster next time. The water dragon sends you on a time burning quest even though you're already being acknowledged as the hero.
The warp system is clunky as hell, and makes you burn time. Need to get to the other side of the of the current area you're in? Warp to sky, wait for load, turn your bird around, dive off, pick the spot, wait for load. No reason for this.
There's plenty of fairly obvious things here people have issues with that are hard if not impossible to dispute. Being critical is not a bad thing; Zelda is my favorite series and it pains me to see Skyward Sword dragged down by very easily remedied faults.
They already have a superguide in the form of a statue in skyloft. Fi is not only unnecessary, but SHE DOESN'T ACTUALLY HELP. She repeats the same bullshit NPCs just told you, and then if you get legitimately stuck on something, she just tells you where your goal is again.
victreeb3l
Member
just beat the game, about 46 hours with lots of sidequesting left
wow.
best zelda thus far. what an incredible journey and i feel profoundly sad that its over. full impressions later when ive collected my thoughts together
wow.
best zelda thus far. what an incredible journey and i feel profoundly sad that its over. full impressions later when ive collected my thoughts together
milkyjay20
Member
it was definitely a cool setting. it's not as linear as the other dungeons, but i wouldn't call it complex. it's nowhere near the level of complexity of zelda on the N64. there's just more backtracking, but the rooms themselves were way too simple. it's also too small and easy.
wandering goat
Member
I'm at 49 hours right now and at what I believe is the very end of the game (was given a "no turning back" type message). I think I'm going to quest a bit more first and do some of the things I've been meaning to before finishing up. Overall a very fun game so far, the overworld really was dungeon-esque, though I also miss the more varied environments in other Zeldas. Puzzles seemed pretty easy for the most part, but I have been playing Zelda for a long time. The two places that made me stop and think were the 5th dungeon
puzzles, and most of all, the
overworld area, where I didn't realize for the longest time that your
Combat was great and I had very few issues with the motion plus, requiring extra menu calibration only once. It took a long time to get used to motion-plus aiming though, and since I play sitting back on my bed instead of more upright on a sofa, pointing the remote at a downward angle was a bit annoying at times.
And yeah, like everyone says, Fi was a pest in this game. It's bad enough when she pops up to state the obvious over and over again, but I think she straight up spoils what would have been a few puzzles before you have the chance to attempt to solve them yourself, which is just crazy.
window
Lanaryu mines
bombs could cross that long passage of quicksand.
And yeah, like everyone says, Fi was a pest in this game. It's bad enough when she pops up to state the obvious over and over again, but I think she straight up spoils what would have been a few puzzles before you have the chance to attempt to solve them yourself, which is just crazy.
How did you get past the first part then?
Shield bash properly, it makes the fight pretty easy. He swings three times, then bash each one away, then swing only once or twice (so he doesn't shock you) - when he releases the charge then you can waggle if you want after bashing away his attacks
milkyjay20
Member
papercuts' criticisms are basically on point and can't really be argued against. yet the game reaches such highs with its level design and controls that i look at those flaws as chinks in the armor rather than a fatal virus.
That it is. It reaffirms for me though that Wind Waker has the best music of any zelda game and probably my favorite music from any video game created thus far.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Anyone got the Japanese fan book? How's the CD?
milkyjay20
Member
they even included dragon roost in the 25th anniversary medley
MisterHero
Super Member
It didn't bother me either, I could do with less hand holding but I didn't find it that insulting, especially since she never said anything I didn't know thus didn't ruin any puzzle for me. Actually, she doesn't comment that much on actual puzzles.
I understand why they do these hints though, for us everything is obvious but for less experienced people it's really hard to know where to go and what to do. It's a really small problem though and personally I think that anyone who says it's big or that it ruins the game is blowing it waaaay out of proportion. But that's what people do online.
I agree with this word for word.
victreeb3l
Member
there was only two segments of the game that i found kinda meh
however, when these events add up to maybe 15 minutes total in a game i played for near 50 hours? not a big deal at all, considering the highs of this game are astronomical
tadpoles and all of the underground segments
however, when these events add up to maybe 15 minutes total in a game i played for near 50 hours? not a big deal at all, considering the highs of this game are astronomical
Well said.
I know what you mean, you can either bitch and moan and complain or just click through it, maybe groan, and move on...
So the hand holding and repetition didn't bother you because all the temples were braindead anyway?
:|
That's not exactly a great defense of the game.
Why did everyone hate the tadtones so much? Even with the fucking awful swimming controls which would get horribly uncalibrated for me (pointing straight forward, making huge circles swimming left) the tadtone thing took like 5 minutes and was a cool distraction. The invisible walls in that area were irritating though. I don't know when the last time was that I just straight up ran into an invisible wall in a videogame.
Yeah, that's exactly what he said, isn't it?
I actually did find it insulting. Especially since the hints or camera pans pretty much reiterate specific elements that you have already utilized multiple times throughout the course of the game. "Less experienced" players would have already gained the experience necessary ten hours into the game, so hand holding during dungeon 5 was beyond idiotic and completely unnecessary.
I personally groaned, moved on, beat the game, and am now in bitch and moan mode.
When I first played Metroid Prime 2, I didn't like it that much. I got through about 1/3 of the game and shelved it for nearly a year. After that, I came back to it and beat it all. I was very grateful for the hint system and the constant reminders of where you need to go.
?
I'm honestly not trying to troll/argue in bad faith. I just really don't get how people could not be bothered by Fi. It's not just her talking, but how the game would stop and pan over the path to solve something the second you walk into a room/area. It is really, really awful.
The indignation of people over this games criticism is bizarre. These are legitimate complaints about basic game design.
I agree with everything Papercuts is saying. I couldn't help but be disappointed as I progressed through the game. There were definitely moments that I thought were fantastic (the last boss fights were very enjoyable), but as a whole there were far too many aspects of this game that let me down.
She didn't spoil the dungeon puzzles. She only told you stuff you already knew like "I think there is a boss key in that boss key chest!" and "You should go to the next dungeon!"
Well, we can't all be masochists like you.
And this is the thing that kills me about this. I have some big issues with Fi and the sky's emptiness in general, but beyond those two requiring work to fix, everything else is mostly minor quirks that add up.
I am honestly trying to think of a time when Fi would ever be helpful, to anyone. I'm not coming up with much. I'll just detail a few things on why the way she's put into the game is so redundant.
1. She repeats what to do immediately after an NPC tells you. Why? These apparent casual gamers can still read. Have her tell you the objective when you actually summon her, this way if you put the game down for awhile you still remember where to go--she does this already(as does every other zelda helper), so having her repeat the exact shit you were just told helps...NOBODY!
2. Telling you "crucial information". If I'm 4 dungeons in, why am I being told that the boss door holds something important behind it? Not only does the map show this, but the fact that it's a bigass door with the same type of lock on it gives it away. If someone really has no idea, have Fi come out and tell you this when you interact with the door without a key, this would cater to the people out there who can't seem to understand this(if they even exist), and wouldn't force every player to stop in their tracks to be regurgitated this crap.
3. Okay, I hit 3 hearts and I hear the always annoying zelda beep. "Oh, her head's flashing and she has something to say! Maybe it has some tip on how to fight the enemy that's kicking my ass?" - This seems, to me, what someone would think in this situation. Oh, I have 3 hearts. Awesome. The beeping is indicative of this already, so it's another example of Fi's redundancy. I don't think a casual zelda player is mentally retarded, the beeping noise and link's pants tell it all. You do not need to have Fi pop up here, it only serves to confuse players thinking they're actually getting a helpful tip. Bonus on this is that on the Pro HUD her head and the whole dpad stay and impose on you until you have her tell you about this.
4. When is she ACTUALLY helping? As I mentioned above, I'm thinking of a place where she will help and not coming up with a damn thing, I'd actually like examples of this apparently happening. I was actually stumped on the pre 5th dungeon for a bit:
I needed to find the ship, and was told to dowse for it. As I followed the douse, it just vanished and repeappeard elsewhere. I drove around in 4 giant circles before I gave up and just stopped playing. I assumed the ship I was looking for would have been crashed given the theme of the area being time travel and the boat being the robot from the past, so I never considered it was moving. Do you know what Fi told me? To dowse for the ship to get to the flame. I was going in circles and wasting time, and she never actually went into another help state where she gave me a tip on what to do.
You said that the hand holding didn't bother The Boat because the temples were braindead.
That's not what was said at all. Fi didn't ruin any puzzles, because the particular "puzzles" she commented on were pointers to paths that should be obvious anyway.
That doesn't mean that all the temples were completely braindead.
It's the exaggeration and hyperbole that is hard to take, not the criticism.
Trust me, I would rather not have Fi in the game, but the way people are blowing things out of proportion is hilarious.
Fi as a whole doesn't really ruin the game, but she certainly hurts it. Is it so wrong to want a game that doesn't berate your intelligence constantly? With Fi popping up or beeping at the player every second, I felt like this game was catered to children. At the very least Nintendo needs to come up with some sort of "Veteran Mode" option that goes beyond just stripping out the godawful controller outline interface.
MisterHero
Super Member
No it really isn't.
When people say they don't have a problem they probably mean they didn't have a problem. The challenges that are put in the player's path are not broken and can be accomplished with a modest amount of effort.
Collection notices only approach the possibility of being bothersome if you collect everything in one session, which does not happen. The Bug minigame might approach that "complexity" but you only have to be there once or twice.
If you manage to collect every type of treasure and bug in one sitting, chances are you've been playing so long that the notices are spaced out anyways.
But everyone loves Pokemon and EarthBoundmaharg said:
Well I don't see how anything could have helped you with that since
the game tells you the ship is invisible and you need to shoot at it with your cannon to decloak it. And like you said. The theme is time travel. Things aren't broken down in the past.
For just a couple examples
telling you that the generators broken so give it some electricity for those lanayru doors, and for the eldin sneaking part just panning across and stopping at the path to take, the bomb to use, the vines to climb, etc.
Sure, and that's fine. I've already expressed in this thread that I didn't have a problem with the notifications or the tadtones, but I understand that people did. I don't say "if this bugged you you're a whiner and/or playing it wrong". I understand that people experience different things differently, and I don't pretend that they aren't actually problems just because they didn't make me rip my hair out.
But everyone loves Pokemon and EarthBound
Hello, and welcome to the Pokémon Center.
We restore your tired Pokémon to full health.
Would you like to rest your Pokémon?
...
OK, I'll take your Pokémon for a few seconds.
...
Thank you for waiting.
We've restored your Pokémon to full health.
Please, come back again any time!
EVERY.GODDAM.TIME
((((((((((No, I have to agree with Papercuts. At first I was stumped because the damn
Captain made it sound like his ship was sunk and not taken over. Of course, after a few minutes of aimlessly wondering around, I realized it was still moving.
Pre-third dungeon:
Match the 3 symbols. First time I did this, I got one right and two wrong. Before I got to think about what to do she immediately opened my map and said they "might" correspond to the position on the map.
5th dungeon:
I hit the timeshift crystal on the ship mast, killed all the enemies and got the key to go inside. I see an opened door with light beaming in, and inside was a bobokin and a chest behind an electrified wall. After I killed the enemy Fi immediately popped out, forced my camera to pan up to the timeshift crystal through the grate, and said I "might" be able to hit it from here.
2 puzzles she ruined, I never summoned her to tell me either of those. No hyperbole here.
I know how the logic of this part works now, but at the time I didn't, and my helper wasn't helping which is all I'm trying to say.
The way the game was talking it up made me think the ship crashed. I didn't even consider it was still moving in the past state when the lake was mostly in the present form.
That was just one specific example anyway. If you get roadblocked at a segment, Fi doesn't specifically help with anything was the only point I was trying to make there.
Version 3.0
Member
I'm talking about the game constantly nagging you, but in regards to the HUD, no, you can't turn off the HUD. You can turn off 2 parts of the main display. That's all. You can't turn off the constant "Press A" and animated Wii Remote "Aim" icon when you use your items.
"Pro Mode" should be more than taking the giant condom off the screen. It should mean Fi doesn't bug you every other minute, the game doesn't tell you about every bug and item you pick up, and you don't have constantly flashing control instructions in your face.
She didn't spoil either of those puzzles for me.
Even if you missed the time travel logic, it should have only taken a few seconds to figure out the ship was moving because... well... IT WAS MOVING!
I think Nintendo felt they didn't need to point that out because it's obvious when you dowse for it that the dowsing target is moving. Telling you to dowse for it should have been enough of a hint. And the robot told you to shoot it with the cannon because it was invisible.
I think Nintendo felt they didn't need to point that out because it's obvious when you dowse for it that the dowsing target is moving. Telling you to dowse for it should have been enough of a hint. And the robot told you to shoot it with the cannon because it was invisible.
For the second one, she didn't pop out for me. She just bleeped on the interface, I ignored her (didn't press down).
The first one, I don't remember either, I think I figured it out straight away. (Not bragging, there were plenty of puzzles in the game I didn't figure out straight away).
Fair enough, I can imagine that being annoying.
But seriously that's what, one or two instances in the game?
She didn't spoil either of those puzzles for me.
Even if you missed the time travel logic, it should have only taken a few seconds to figure out the ship was moving because... well... IT WAS MOVING!
I think Nintendo felt they didn't need to point that out because it's obvious when you dowse for it that the dowsing target is moving. Telling you to dowse for it should have been enough of a hint. And the robot told you to shoot it with the cannon because it was invisible.
Are you really saying "it should be obvious" when the crux of the argument with Fi is that she REPEATS the obvious and is here to help dumb people constantly constantly?
Yeah, I was dumb at that part, but since people keep saying Fi is helping the dumb people my main point was she doesn't in general actually help with specific obstacles.
One or two instances that should be, under no circumstance, anything but zero, yes.
I have no idea what's up with the 5th dungeon one, people are saying she didn't pop out for them, but others are saying she did. For me she did, and I'm obviously going to hold my experience against her.
Skellig Gra
Member
Did you struggle for awhile with this dungeon or did you just breeze through and have the puzzles spoiled? Maybe there is some timer on this if a player is floundering? That would atleast make a little sense.
Are you really saying "it should be obvious" when the crux of the argument with Fi is that she REPEATS the obvious and is here to help dumb people constantly constantly?
Yeah, I was dumb at that part, but since people keep saying Fi is helping the dumb people my main point was she doesn't in general actually help with specific obstacles.
One or two instances that should be, under no circumstance, anything but zero, yes.
I have no idea what's up with the 5th dungeon one, people are saying she didn't pop out for them, but others are saying she did. For me she did, and I'm obviously going to hold my experience against her.
But she did tell you the obvious. She told you to dowse.
Exactly the same here, Fi definitely automatically tells you this both times.
I also thought
the ship sunk and was somewhere on the ground. It also makes no sense to have a ship sailing through the desert since water was only around my ship due to the time shift
Oh and I found a great picture regarding the Link/MJ similarity.
Definitely. Especially since the only
time shift stone on the ship was deactivated when you went aboard.
I don't even recall someone saying to use the cannon tbh. I still think you're hanging up on that specific point too much, my main reason for mentioning it was that it's something she does throughout the game. If you get stuck on a puzzle within a dungeon, she still just says that you need to get the flame at the end. She has no specific advice per sequence, which means she isn't actually helpful beyond reminding people where to go if they forgot, which was always a thing zelda helpers did. For people saying she is here to cater to idiots, the idiots are still going to have to resort to guides to actually get through the spots with actual puzzles.
And it seems after mentioning that part a few others had the same confusion I did. If you literally never consider the fact it's moving, her telling you to douse leads you in circles that will never end.
I breezed through it, it made no sense. I agree if I was running around with no idea what to do Fi coming out would make sense, and would have been helpful. It happened immediately after beating the enemy in that room, and I guarantee I never hit the down button to call her.
MisterHero
Super Member
The assumption that the ship is grounded is what takes you to the Pirate Stronghold in the first place. We are already aware that it was stolen, and that it wasn't in the Shipyard, and that it wasn't docked anywhere else, and the Skipper even says that it's invisible AND to use the cannon AND they've deduced that it's on the move. And obviously, the ship had its own power source/Timeshift Crystal. Maybe it turned off when you hit it with the cannon, who knows? We know pirates had the ship and were running off with it.
You guys should try not skipping the Skipper's dialogue
You guys should try not skipping the Skipper's dialogue
as for Fi "spoilering" that other puzzle,
I thought it was okay because it applied to another part of the ship; the 2nd vent you had to hit the crystal through to access the generator (so the entire mystery wasn't exactly spoiled). The part I got stuck on was that I didn't see the Arrow Switch on the life raft which made it go up and down.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Just thought i'd mention. For those that like Skyward Sword, you should check out One Piece: Unlimited Cruise for the Wii. They're pretty similar.