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[butter_stick]

Dowsing dowsing dowsing dowsing dowsing dowsing

 

[marc^o^]

Edit: wrong thread.

 

[g.r.e.]

Fi is awful :/

That's something I can agree on.

 

[wrowa]

Am I the only one that's never bothered by those kind of opening? I genuinely LIKE them.

I love the first 3 hours of TP.

No, I loved the first 3 hours too. And Skyward Sword's opening is in every way superior to TP's opening. It's less dull tasks, and much more incredibly charming characters and story.

 

[Aeana]

Does everybody agree that the first 3 or so hours are incredibly boring, holy fucking shit, it holds nothing on TP's opening. Those dialogues... please make it stop.

It's definitely not worse than TP's opening.

 

[Lunar15]

Am I the only one that's never bothered by those kind of opening? I genuinely LIKE them.

I love the first 3 hours of TP.

The first time through I didn't mind it. It's on replays that I don't like the extended tutorials.

 

[Uchip]

Am I the only one that's never bothered by those kind of opening? I genuinely LIKE them.

I love the first 3 hours of TP.

some people have short attention spans
its as simple as that

 

[butter_stick]

There's nothing charming about dowsing, even if you're dowsing for cute forest creatures.

I don't get Fi. Unless she becomes a REAL LIFE GIRL at some point how is a personality-less sidekick good?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Am I the only one that's never bothered by those kind of opening? I genuinely LIKE them.

I love the first 3 hours of TP.

No, you're not the only one. It's just that we're not as vocal as the people who hate it.

 

[Lunar15]

There's nothing charming about dowsing, even if you're dowsing for cute forest creatures.

I don't get Fi. Unless she becomes a REAL LIFE GIRL at some point how is a personality-less sidekick good?

While I don't doubt that those are legitimate complaints, are there any positives so far? You just seem overall negative.

 

[Aeana]

There's nothing charming about dowsing, even if you're dowsing for cute forest creatures.

I don't get Fi. Unless she becomes a REAL LIFE GIRL at some point how is a personality-less sidekick good?

I don't know about charming, but dowsing certainly is useful. Especially later in the game

Spoiler

when you can learn to dowse for types of objects and items

.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Am I the only one that's never bothered by those kind of opening? I genuinely LIKE them.

I love the first 3 hours of TP.

Can't say I loved TP's opening but WW's opening was also a slow burn.
Get birthday gift
Get sword training
Get shield
Rescue Tetra
Get sea legs
Stealth through Fort
Get sail for the King
THEN you hit the first dungeon.

LOVED that intro.

While I don't doubt that those are legitimate complaints, are there any positives so far? You just seem overall negative.

Haha Butter has been like this even before the game came out. Maybe that's just how he go.

 

[oatmeal]

While I don't doubt that those are legitimate complaints, are there any positives so far? You just seem overall negative.

She gives more information to you on command, and tells you how long your play time (current and total) is.

That's about it.

 

[butter_stick]

While I don't doubt that those are legitimate complaints, are there any positives so far? You just seem overall negative.

I'll write something more concise later. The intro to Zelda is rarely good, but I love the characterisation of everyone other than Fi do far. It's very Wind Waker. Zelda herself has never been more charming, it's like you have a reason to save her now.

 

[dc89]

Does GAF have any nice SS wallpaper in 1920x1080p

I'm sure you do so thanks in advance.

Maybe you don't.

 

[oatmeal]

Can't say I loved TP's opening but WW's opening was also a slow burn.
Get birthday gift
Get sword training
Get shield
Rescue Tetra
Get sea legs
Stealth through Fort
Get sail for the King
THEN you hit the first dungeon.

LOVED that intro.

Where I bolded is where the game becomes less tutorial and throws you into the action.

That's so much quicker it's not even funny.

Honestly, since they INSIST on having him wake up in every single non-MM Zelda...

Give us a dream to have some combat in. Some premonition-type dream where we are given no tutorial, but thrown into an impossible situation that we won't win. Then wake up when you're about to die...and start the bullshit intro that they insist on having.

We know that something is wrong, and we have already gotten a tutorial-less preview at the controls.

Super Metroid did it, Mega Man X did it, Eternal Darkness did it...it's a great technique.

Nope, I had no issue with the first hours of TP. I liked them even (aside from the goat herding, that was pointless...)

It was fine the first time through, annoying yes...but we had never seen anything like it. So it was a new type of Zelda intro. But since then it has been panned critically, and makes the game have near zero replayability.

A lot of us expected more from this one, at least fix the huge issues:

- Shitty long intro
- Get a rupee, be forced to see the stupid screen telling you about it. They fixed that, only made a MUCH WORSE ONE with teh bugs and collectibles.

 

[wrowa]

There's nothing charming about dowsing, even if you're dowsing for cute forest creatures.

Times you use dowsing during the opening: 0. So what are you talking about?

Dowsing is a rather great feature, it becomes only a problem if you use it wrong. It's incredibly useful because it shows you the way to your next task. Unnecessary blind searches for something don't happen thanks to it. However, you aren't supposed to stop using your brain and dowse every second step.

 

[Aeana]

Where I bolded is where the game becomes less tutorial and throws you into the action.

That's so much quicker it's not even funny.

Honestly, since they INSIST on having him wake up in every single non-MM Zelda...

Give us a dream to have some combat in. Some premonition-type dream where we are given no tutorial, but thrown into an impossible situation that we won't win. Then wake up when you're about to die...and start the bullshit intro that they insist on having.

We know that something is wrong, and we have already gotten a tutorial-less preview at the controls.

Super Metroid did it, Mega Man X did it, Eternal Darkness did it...it's a great technique.

Skyward Sword gets you into the action pretty quickly, too, though. I really don't think Wind Waker is any faster than Skyward Sword on that point.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Been lurking my usual IRC/s, apparently a buddy who's been playing also hates Fi and thinks the

Spoiler

robot who calls you Captain Shortpants (or something like that)

should have been the sidekick instead.

Anybody who's played this section want to tell me what the hell he's talking about? Other than how bad Fi sucks.

 

[butter_stick]

Times you use dowsing during the opening: 0. So what are you talking about?

Dowsing is a rather great feature, it becomes only a problem if you use it wrong. It's incredibly useful because it shows you the way to your next task. Unnecessary blind searches for something don't happen thanks to it. However, you aren't supposed to stop using your brain and dowse every second step.

I'm talking about the build up to the first dungeon, which I count as the intro.

Spoiler

Finding those 5 incredibly cute forest creature things. It was tedious and not fun

 

[ShockingAlberto]

There's nothing charming about dowsing, even if you're dowsing for cute forest creatures.

I don't get Fi. Unless she becomes a REAL LIFE GIRL at some point how is a personality-less sidekick good?

She doesn't lack a personality, she lacks socialization. She says things that only someone who has never dealt with another person would say and moves things forward in an agenda-driven away with little to no concern for feelings or limits.


Hell, she's Zelda-GAF.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Honestly, since they INSIST on having him wake up in every single non-MM Zelda...

Give us a dream to have some combat in. Some premonition-type dream where we are given no tutorial, but thrown into an impossible situation that we won't win. Then wake up when you're about to die...and start the bullshit intro that they insist on having.

We know that something is wrong, and we have already gotten a tutorial-less preview at the controls.

What a coincidence, also was thinking implementing a dream mechanic this morning but opposite of what you suggest.

Use a skipable dream sequence as a tutorial. Since its a dream it doesn-t have to make sense in the game wrold so Nintendo could trow every possible aid, iconography, instruction they could think of so the player gets the controls. And be done with it.

 

[oatmeal]

She doesn't lack a personality, she lacks socialization. She says things that only someone who has never dealt with another person would say and moves things forward in an agenda-driven away with little to no concern for feelings or limits.


Hell, she's Zelda-GAF.

I get why she's like that, doesn't make it any better.

I was thinking implementing a dream mechanic this morning but opposite of what you suggest.

I was thinking using an skipable dream sequence as a tutorial. Since its a dream it doesn-t have to make sense in the game wrold so Nintendo could trow every possible aid, iconography, instruction they could think of so the player gets the controls. And be done with it.

That's what I mean. Doesn't HAVE to be story-related, but since he has a nightmare all the time...why not.

 

[Dascu]

Isn't Fi supposed to be more of a Navi-type character, with a far lesser involvement in the story? Comparisons to Midna are somewhat off in that regard, because she was an essential element in the main story, even more important than Zelda. Looks like in this game, Fi is much more of an accessory, a guide, instead of a story character. That role is taken up this time by Zelda and others.

Been lurking my usual IRC/s, apparently a buddy who's been playing also hates Fi and thinks the

Spoiler

robot who calls you Captain Shortpants (or something like that)

should have been the sidekick instead.

Anybody who's played this section want to tell me what the hell he's talking about? Other than how bad Fi sucks.

I assume he's talking about the character that was shown on the official site. Seems it's

Spoiler

some kind of robot that helps you accomplish certain quests from time to time, by carrying heavy items. I've also heard he's got quite the character, is in love with Fi and keeps insulting Link. Does sound fun.

 

[butter_stick]

She doesn't lack a personality, she lacks socialization. She says things that only someone who has never dealt with another person would say and moves things forward in an agenda-driven away with little to no concern for feelings or limits.


Hell, she's Zelda-GAF.

That works for Glados, because there's an irony and juxtaposition in the things she says. I doubt Zelda is going to go dark with this character, so I don't see how she's going to get better.

I loved Midna, so she seems like a massive step back.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Been lurking my usual IRC/s, apparently a buddy who's been playing also hates Fi and thinks the

Spoiler

robot who calls you Captain Shortpants (or something like that)

should have been the sidekick instead.

Anybody who's played this section want to tell me what the hell he's talking about? Other than how bad Fi sucks.

You really want to know?

Spoiler

It's a robot you help rebuild who is quite useful to get stuff from the land under the clouds that's too heavy to carry by yourself. It's only story/sidequest related stuff though.

 

[TheExodu5]

some people have short attention spans
its as simple as that

Short attention spans? I just don't like having an evening wasted on a poorly written story and mindless fetch quests or tutorials.

 

[oatmeal]

Isn't Fi supposed to be more of a Navi-type character, with a far lesser involvement in the story? Comparisons to Midna are somewhat off in that regard, because she was an essential element in the main story, even more important than Zelda. Looks like in this game, Fi is much more of an accessory, a guide, instead of a story character. That role is taken up this time by Zelda and others.


I assume he's talking about the character that was shown on the official site. Seems it's

Spoiler

some kind of robot that helps you accomplish certain quests from time to time, by carrying heavy items. I've also heard he's got quite the character, is in love with Fi and keeps insulting Link. Does sound fun.

Less important yes. More intrusive, also yes.

 

[wrowa]

I'm talking about the build up to the first dungeon, which I count as the intro.

Spoiler

Finding those 5 incredibly cute forest creature things. It was tedious and not fun

It was absolutely fun. The whole area was designed to be a playground for Link; the task at hand (

Spoiler

finding those creatures

) was just an excuse so you had a reason to explore it. Could they have found a better exuse to send you through the area? Sure. But the task isn't what mattered, what mattered was the way you achieved it.

It was absolutely an area like pretty much no other in a 3D Zelda. Instead of large and barren or small and tube-ish, it was medium-sized, rather packed with stuff and open with many different ways Link could go to possibly achieve his goals. I think it was really well designed -- and why dowsing is supposed to be a problem in this place is something I don't get. Everytime you solved a goal you would quickly dowse to see in which direction you have to go. And that's it. I don't know what you have done, but "dowsing, dowsing, dowsing, dowsing" sounds like you played that part seriously wrong.

 

[ameleco]

Short attention spans? I just don't like having an evening wasted on a poorly written story and mindless fetch quests or tutorials.

Yeah, I'm hoping the intro isn't as bad as TP's was in my mind. Well, it wasn't *bad*....if I was playing video games for the first time. Or replaying the game later. It's just so long. I'm getting mixed signals from whether or not SS is too long, but generally, people seem to think it's not as long's TP's. That's good at least.

 

[TheCongressman1]

A few years ago you couldn't find anyone who liked Midna. Now Fi is awful, and Midna is loved.


Zelda cycle runs deep.

 

[butter_stick]

It was absolutely fun. The whole area was designed to be a playground for Link; the task at hand (

Spoiler

finding those creatures

) was just an excuse so you had a reason to explore it. Could they have found a better exuse to send you through the area? Sure. But the task isn't what mattered, what mattered was the way you achieved it.

It was absolutely an area like pretty much no other in a 3D Zelda. Instead of large and barren or small and tube-ish, it was medium-sized and open with many different ways Link could go and could possibly achieve his goal. I think it was really well designed -- and why dowsing is supposed to be a problem in this place is something I don't get. Everytime you solved a goal you would quickly dowse to see in which direction you have to go. And that's it. I don't know what you have done, but "dowsing, dowsing, dowsing, dowsing" sounds like you played that part seriously wrong.

Oh ok so I was playing it wrong. Thanks for the info. Silly me!

 

[Refreshment.01]

Short attention spans? I just don't like having an evening wasted on a poorly written story and mindless fetch quests or tutorials.

Not only that but once you have gripped the game basics the companion character becomes a complete waste of the player's time. And then you need to take in consideration following playthroughs of the game.

 

[Dascu]

It was absolutely fun. The whole area was designed to be a playground for Link; the task at hand (

Spoiler

finding those creatures

) was just an excuse so you had a reason to explore it. Could they have found a better exuse to send you through the area? Sure. But the task isn't what mattered.

It was absolutely an area like pretty much no other in a 3D Zelda. Instead of large and barren or small and tube-ish, it was medium-sized and open with many different ways Link could go and could possibly achieve his goal. I think it was really well designed -- and why dowsing is supposed to be a problem in this place is something I don't get. Everytime you solved a goal you would quickly dowse to see in which direction you have to go. And that's it. I don't know what you have done, but "dowsing, dowsing, dowsing, dowsing" sounds like you played that part seriously wrong.

I don't quite get the complaints either. It's supposed to be like the Arbiter's Grounds dungeon where you track down the Poes. Replace Poes with NPCs or key items and replace the scent/trace with dowsing. The overworld has been designed as a dungeon, so it's not just running across an empty field or anything. You have to do some puzzling and such to reach your objectives.

 

[oatmeal]

It was absolutely fun. The whole area was designed to be a playground for Link; the task at hand (

Spoiler

finding those creatures

) was just an excuse so you had a reason to explore it. Could they have found a better exuse to send you through the area? Sure. But the task isn't what mattered, what mattered was the way you achieved it.

It was absolutely an area like pretty much no other in a 3D Zelda. Instead of large and barren or small and tube-ish, it was medium-sized, rather packed with stuff and open with many different ways Link could go and could possibly achieve his goal. I think it was really well designed -- and why dowsing is supposed to be a problem in this place is something I don't get. Everytime you solved a goal you would quickly dowse to see in which direction you have to go. And that's it. I don't know what you have done, but "dowsing, dowsing, dowsing, dowsing" sounds like you played that part seriously wrong.

It was painful, though.

If you want to make us explore...don't tell us what to do! Finding those Kikwi's doesn't make the game more fun, it just adds more annoying 'find this so you can do this'. If we want to explore, we will.

 

[Randomizer]

Got my special edition today from shopto. I was very disappointed that the PAL version didn't have the shiny Gold cover that the US version has. I was excepting this gorgeous shiny cover and get a boring matt one instead . Also why do Nintendo feel the need to chop down 5 trees for each person that buys the game. Seriously there was a text book sized manual and about 10 other leaflets of paper in that box.

Anyway the game itself is pretty amazing so far. I have been playing in Dolphin and it's been flawless so far. I've been taking tons of screenshots so might upload a few later, obviously keeping spoilers to a minimum.

 

[Aeana]

I'm surprised that people actually hate Fi. I don't love her; in fact, I find that I don't really have any feelings for her either way. But she doesn't annoy me except when I have low health and she is like "yo your health is low, you should probably do something about that, chief." Other than that, she is pretty much out of the way.

 

[wrowa]

Yeah, I'm hoping the intro isn't as bad as TP's was in my mind. Well, it wasn't *bad*....if I was playing video games for the first time. Or replaying the game later. It's just so long. I'm getting mixed signals from whether or not SS is too long, but generally, people seem to think it's not as long's TP's. That's good at least.

Skyward's Sword opening is less about explaining the basics of the game, than introducing you to the setup of the world and its characters. It's really charming and well made.

There are dull-tasks, and unneccessary text boxes too, one can't deny that, but that's really not the main part of it.

Sure, you might dislike the story (Personally, I think it's presented wonderfully and I really like the way Zelda and other characters are portrayed), but calling it a long tutorial isn't doing it justice.

 

[Dascu]

I'm surprised that people actually hate Fi. I don't love her; in fact, I find that I don't really have any feelings for her either way. But she doesn't annoy me except when I have low health and she is like "yo your health is low, you should probably do something about that, chief." Other than that, she is pretty much out of the way.

Does she pop up automatically, or does her icon just flash or something, together with the usual beeping noise?

 

[Refreshment.01]

It was painful, though.

If you want to make us explore...don't tell us what to do! Finding those Kikwi's doesn't make the game more fun, it just adds more annoying 'find this so you can do this'. If we want to explore, we will.

Haha! you are complaining about the best handled fetch quests which are the first ones. The following ones are far worse except for one.

Edit: BTW, game is really good but not the unnecessary padding.

 

[Aeana]

Does she pop up automatically, or does her icon just flash or something, together with the usual beeping noise?

The latter. I usually press it and let her talk because the extra beeping on top of the beeping from low health is irritating.

 

[Aeonin]

Fi is awful :/

So awful. I wish there was a toggle for intrusions from Fi. Her percentages and dry dialog are just boring filler, wasting my time.

You'd think after TP, they'd know how to do the persistent help/sidekick right.

 

[feel]

Am I the only one that's never bothered by those kind of opening? I genuinely LIKE them.

I love the first 3 hours of TP.

Me too. I really like the very slow first few hours on a Zelda game where you just get to know the village and stuff.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The kikwis were basically a hidden tutorial. They teach you about

Spoiler

cutting grass to find hidden objects, changing direction on the ropes, etc.

I'm not saying it's not boring for you, but I understood the intent and was able to enjoy it.

 

[TheExodu5]

Exploration should never be forced upon the player. The player should want to explore for reasons made evident by the game: hidden treasures, shortcuts, beautiful scenery, landmarks, or some form of reward.

When I'm playing Skyrim and see a huge statue on the top of a mountain, I don't think to myself "I'm only going to go there if they give me a quest to go there", I think "oh, wow, cool! A giant statue! I wonder what's up there?".

 

[butter_stick]

I'm surprised that people actually hate Fi. I don't love her; in fact, I find that I don't really have any feelings for her either way. But she doesn't annoy me except when I have low health and she is like "yo your health is low, you should probably do something about that, chief." Other than that, she is pretty much out of the way.

I find her annoying because she makes me very aware of the fact I'm being told what to do. In the past it felt like a character was talking to me. Now it's almost like the game is. There's no charm to it.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Does she pop up automatically, or does her icon just flash or something, together with the usual beeping noise?

It's both, that's the big problem here. If it were just flashing and leave it to the players will, there wouldn't be much problem.

 

[Dascu]

Exploration should never be forced upon the player. The player should want to explore for reasons made evident by the game: hidden treasures, shortcuts, beautiful scenery, landmarks, or some form of reward.

When I'm playing Skyrim and see a huge statue on the top of a mountain, I don't think to myself "I'm only going to go there if they give me a quest to go there", I think "oh, wow, cool! A giant statue! I wonder what's up there?".

At least there's Xenoblade Chronicles for that.

 

[oatmeal]

Haha! you are complaining about the best handled fetch quests which are the first ones. The following ones are far worse except for one.

Edit: BTW, game is really good but not the unnecessary padding.

I'm up to

Spoiler

Water Dragon shit

...

So far the kikwi crap was the worst. The key shards and power stuff was much more fun.

 

[TheExodu5]

At least there's Xenoblade Chronicles for that.

There's a game that did a wonderful job of encouraging exploration by virtue of having a very well crafted world.