EmCeeGramr
Member
People hated that shit in Twilight Princess.
-
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
People hated that shit in Twilight Princess.
I like to get all the chests in a dungeon, so I don't really like it saying I can't open this one because I'm maxed out on Rupees. Like I'm going to go "oh no I'm 10 rupees short of whatever thing I need right now, luckily I know exactly the chest that cockblocked me in the water temple that has 10 rupees!".
Electivirus
Member
There should just be one fatass wallet that takes as many rupees as you collect but the game's economy should be balanced well enough to where you can't get everything at once but don't need to farm like mad for an fireproof shield. Unfortunately Nintendo can't seem to get that down right most of the time.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Now on to
The second dungeon was also quite short, although the pre-dungeon shenanigans and such were quite fun--the boss fight, however, was fantastic. The third dungeon, on the other hand, was pretty awesome, but the boss fight was somewhat underwhelming.
Currently 22 hours of playing, according to Fi.
As they should! That shit was ridiculous.
the search for the holy water for the Water Dragon.
The second dungeon was also quite short, although the pre-dungeon shenanigans and such were quite fun--the boss fight, however, was fantastic. The third dungeon, on the other hand, was pretty awesome, but the boss fight was somewhat underwhelming.
Currently 22 hours of playing, according to Fi.
As they should! That shit was ridiculous.
From a game design perspective, I have no idea why Nintendo limits your "wallet".
It clearly isn't "realism"; rupees are the size of small raccoons. It doesn't make any sense if it's there to try and limit a player's progress, since there's really nothing a player could buy early on for a lot of rupees that would unbalance the game, and even if there were, those items could be meted out at a later time.
It's frustrating and stupid.
It clearly isn't "realism"; rupees are the size of small raccoons. It doesn't make any sense if it's there to try and limit a player's progress, since there's really nothing a player could buy early on for a lot of rupees that would unbalance the game, and even if there were, those items could be meted out at a later time.
It's frustrating and stupid.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Sense of empowerment as you upgrade your wallet, accompanied with the sense of empowerment as you get new items via your new wallet.
EmCeeGramr
Member
people like to see things get bigger better and more badass (or at least watch numbers go up)
[note: everything in this wall of text is COMPLETELY spoiler-free]
so, i decided to write down my final thoughts on the game. i started posting impressions a week ago and i'll be recycling some of the content of those posts (modified and/or updated) for this write-up. it's gonna be a long read, so feel free to not read any of it and quote the entire thing with a moderately funny gif of your choice.
i wanna get one thing out of the way from the start: skyward sword is a great game. it is full of fantastic, fun mechanics, some of the most ingenious puzzle design in the industry, breathtakingly beautiful music (for the most part) and a unique visual style. it's a lengthy and satisfying adventure. but it is neither perfect nor revolutionary. it is held back by fundamental flaws in its structure and pace, by the unremitting handholding and an odd disconnect in its approach to motion control and combat. but let me outline some of the flaws and highlights of the game:
motion controls and combat
during combat, motion controls and motion plus in particular don't add as much as people might have expected or wished for. i certainly wouldn't call it "revolutionary". but then, zelda has never been about a deep and complex combat system and this doesn't change with skyward sword. the necessity of having to slash at the right angle with certain enemy types turned out to be a superficial addition at best for me. more interesting are the defense/offense mechanics of the shield and the strategic back and forth between sword and shield. but this isn't a requirement nearly often enough.
reviewers have mentioned the slower combat and many consider this to be a positive or simply don't mind because it is a part of seemingly "deeper combat mechanics". but to me, since i'm not really getting any more satisfaction out of the combat than i would have in twilight princess, this is a negative factor, one that isn't outweighed by the supposedly newly gained strategic depth.
the design, choreography (or lack there of) and timing of the fights in particular and the enemy encounters as a whole haven't changed much from earlier 3d zelda games. they still occur, for the most part, in very much the same way they have in twilight princess. and it's clear to me that this design was never intended for the kind of slower, more methodical approach to combat that we're seeing in skyward sword. this is particularly evident once you're surrounded by regular enemies that all require correctly angled slashes...
there is no good system in place to dispatch with a vicious crowd of enemies methodically or even slolwly and with precision, even though the mechanics of the swordplay are meant to be employed in just such a fashion. so despite the hypothetical precision of the sword controls, the very mechanics of the individual fights remain both rigid (much like the enemy a.i.) and imprecise. there's a disconnect here that disrupts the flow of adventuring. enemy encounters in zelda games have always been largely incidental, unpredictable, unchoreographed and unscripted. enemies just need to get out of the way. there's nothing wrong with that. yet clearly these new enemies still largely move and behave in a way that begs for that more old-fashioned approach. they are as mindless as they've ever been. it's not like i'm locked into an inescapable battle of wits with any of them. they were not designed with a sophisticated battle system in mind. and the need for correctly angled slashes is not gonna convince me otherwise.
so maybe this dichotomy, this contrast of old and new design is what some reviewers have been trying to express when they talk about the strange disconnect between two opposing design philosophies and their manifestations as something that always kind of wants to be fresh and new but is still held back by old conventions and quirks that now seem to clash with the bolder, newer ideas. i can even sort of understand the seemingly odd commentary (i believe it was egm's?) regarding the combat in twilight princess: something about how the motion controls felt better or were easier or more straightforward and therefore "better" in that game. they just weren't in the way of adventuring, exploring, puzzle solving, because they didn't require much time OR thought OR precision.
during boss fights all of this is usually less of a problem. these fights are largely designed around specific motions and attacks and are, by their nature, one-on-one. killing bosses also serves a specific purpose and is always a necessity. these fights are naturally harder and more dangerous. so a more methodical and slower approach will always be rewarding on some level. but then, the bosses in skyward sword are fantastic mostly for reasons that don't revolve around motion controls. but more on that later.
maybe skyward sword would have been a better game overall if they'd decided to either abandon all of those old conventions or stick with them and all their implications and quirks. i can't say for sure. at least in terms of combat and motion controls, being only "halfway there" seems to have done the game a disservice. the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying; what was a means to an end in previous 3d zelda games has now become a minor nuisance.
dungeons, items, overworld
ah yes, let's get into some of the good parts. from the 3rd dungeon forward the game really starts to shine. i have to give the designers credit for creating an abundance of clever and satisfying puzzles without 1) relying on a dozen locked doors and keys, 2) ever getting the player into a situation where he's overwhelmed or stuck with absolutely no clue how to progress and 3) relying on increasingly more complex and harder to navigate maps with lots of filler rooms to artificially bump the difficulty (as some previous zelda games have).
the dungeons only get better as the game progresses. there are some of the best and most ingenious puzzles in the series here. they are not the hardest. but that doesn't make them any less satisfying, quite the opposite. and there's many a subtly clever and incidental introduction to a new important mechanic. it puts a smile on your face when you first think that you just suddenly "accidentally" hit or triggered something or fell or did something that you didn't intend to do and then notice that the game is actually teaching you a new concept (sadly this is sometimes ruined by a design flaw i'll get into later).
almost all of the boss fights are great, but some of them are truly outstanding. the amount of twists and surprises they have in store is remarkable. they have more elaborate patterns, more forms, are more difficult and last considerably longer than they ever have in the zelda franchise. and they also make great use of the newly acquired items. fantastic stuff.
and finally the designers have done an excellent job of integrating all the available items into their puzzles. this has never been handled better in any previous zelda game. there's one in particular that is a bit underused, sadly, but it's not that big of a deal. that said, the items in general and the mechanics surrounding them are a high point of the game. this is where the motion controls shine. it's also one area where there really has been a bit of a revolution and even some much appreciated streamlining.
i appreciate that the overworld is for once filled with puzzles as well. really, much of the overworld consists of a linear trek to the respective dungeon, filled with (lesser) puzzles and enemies. the game is now painfully linear and this is a step back for the franchise. the addition of frequent mandatory fetch quests in the same areas doesn't help and can get quite aggravating.
linearity, hand-holding, spelling out everything for the player
why is it so bad that the game is completely linear? not that it would necessarily be a problem on its own. here are a few reasons why it's so problematic in ss and why it sticks out like a sore thumb:
1) the incessant handholding, guiding and frequent re-iteration of obvious concepts by fi, often immediately after another character just explained the same thing in great detail. frequently this is about your next task. example: some character: "maybe there's something interesting on top of that tree!", fi appears: "master! blah blah blah! i have analyzed the situation! blah blah blah! i have determined the following things blah blah blah i can now say with 85% probabality that your next task is up on that tree! blah blah blah! this tree is very dangerous! are you sure you are ready? blah blah blah! wait! i sense that there's something very evil and dangerous behind this giant boss door! i am 90% sure it is a boss. bosses are very dangerous! are you ready to fight this boss? blah blah blah."... where was i? oh yeah:
2) dowsing. this mechanic is often forced on you in an obnoxious way. but it is unnecessary 90% of the time. we used to just explore in previous zelda games. remember? if you rely on dowsing, what little exploration there is will be taken away from you. my advice: ignore it. it will be forced on you over and over again. fi will remind you, the dowsing symbol will flash on screen and an alert sound will go off and won't stop until you go into dowsing mode and then cancel. the game tries to trick you into thinking it's some sort of integral mechanic. i have consistently ignored it and i never ran into any problem or got stuck.
3) the fractured and isolated nature of the pre-dungeon segments. yes, some of them are more open and quite big even (in fact, sometimes these areas are more elaborate and longer than the actual dungeon!), but i certainly wouldn't call any of what you're doing in them "free exploration". the forest, for example, felt too boxy and small to me. it isn't so much the size of the maps, but the design of them. you always move from point a to point b. sure, sometimes you have to find a handful of things and they're scattered around a somewhat bigger area. once again though, as soon as something ISN'T just "point a to point b" you will get lots of WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE hints and the game will, well, "strongly encourage" you to use dowsing. i can't say there's a lot in this game that fits my definition of "exploration".
then there's the part where the game insists on spelling out the solutions or approaches to puzzles for you. here's a spoiler-free example from the 5th dungeon:
there's this really neat series of puzzles surrounding one particular mechanic and object. the implementation of this mechanic is quite clever. but you are completely robbed of the satisfaction of discovering it on your own, which is usually at least half the fun in puzzle solving. instead of subtly guiding you towards the solution - hell, i would have been fine with a quick camera pan in the direction of the object needed to solve the puzzle - fi outright tells you what to do once you're in the promixity of said object. she doesn't just tell you to do SOMETHIHNG with it, she tells you to do WHAT precisely. i actually did get somewhat angry when that happened. it made me feel bad for the guy who designed the puzzle and i was mad to have been robbed of the satisfaction of figuring it out on my own. and in this case the first step of the puzzle, which reveals the mechanic and the object needed to solve it, is actually the most clever part about it, so it's particularly infuriating.
sadly, the above is just one of many examples of poor design that insists on spoon-feeding solutions and beating the player over the head with not-so-subtle hints. this is the kind of bad design that exceedingly stands out and is especially annoying because it sits directly on top of GOOD design. you have these clever mechanics and frequently ingenious puzzles, but too often they're ruined by nonsense that was clearly added after the fact under the guise of accessiblity. i had to laugh when this quote from one of the many 10/10 reviews was posted in the other thread: "this game treats the player with respect!" i'm not sure i'd call this respect.
the opening minutes and hours
i don't necessarily mind an extensive setup before the first dungeon. that's not my problem with skyward sword. tp's was longer and i didn't mind it as much. the intro is also dragged down by the aforementioned hand-holding. but mostly i was bothered by the lack of urgency in both the setting and the premise in general. even in twilight princess things turned around prett quickly once you were out of the idyllic setting of your home town. only almost halfway through the game does this truly change in skyward sword. inititally there is just no sense of danger or mystery or the sense of a great adventure. something that's usually been present in every entry of the series.
as a sidenote: there's a reason why the game overall feels a bit slower than twilight princess: the text speed has been decreased considerably. when pressing a button, tp would load the whole text in a text box almost instantly and text would generally appear much faster. skyward sword's text speed is maddeningly slow on the other hand. and link's maximum running speed in tp is somewhere in between skyward sword's regular walking and running speed. only it isn't limited by a stamina meter (which didn't actually bother me while i was playing though).
the music
orchestrated music! finally! no really, great stuff. for the most part. it's a bit sad that the dungeon themes are the weakest of them all. some of them are downright irritating. but i really dig the many celtic inspired themes otherwise. a first for the series, i believe. overall a fantastic soundtrack.
that said...
again, skyward sword is a great game. i might still prefer twilight princess over it. i can't say for sure without replaying tp though. they still haven't made the perfect zelda game... oh wait, i almost forgot about link's awakening. but let's not get into that now.
you know what i really want next? a kind of "new legend of zelda" that cuts to the chase right away and has a minimalist story but tons of great dungeons and puzzles. i'd love that. absolutely MINIMAL setup and tutorial (kinda like lttp). outside of the gameplay and dungeons, the key to zelda's world and to what makes it so memorable and unique has always been setting and mood, NOT plot (just like with metroid). so i don't think stripping out big chunks of story has to hurt a (modern) zelda game at all.
----------------------
wow. how did this get so long? jesus christ. i still feel like i forgot half of what i wanted to say while i was writing. oh well.
were you expecting a score? i don't do scores.
so, i decided to write down my final thoughts on the game. i started posting impressions a week ago and i'll be recycling some of the content of those posts (modified and/or updated) for this write-up. it's gonna be a long read, so feel free to not read any of it and quote the entire thing with a moderately funny gif of your choice.
i wanna get one thing out of the way from the start: skyward sword is a great game. it is full of fantastic, fun mechanics, some of the most ingenious puzzle design in the industry, breathtakingly beautiful music (for the most part) and a unique visual style. it's a lengthy and satisfying adventure. but it is neither perfect nor revolutionary. it is held back by fundamental flaws in its structure and pace, by the unremitting handholding and an odd disconnect in its approach to motion control and combat. but let me outline some of the flaws and highlights of the game:
motion controls and combat
during combat, motion controls and motion plus in particular don't add as much as people might have expected or wished for. i certainly wouldn't call it "revolutionary". but then, zelda has never been about a deep and complex combat system and this doesn't change with skyward sword. the necessity of having to slash at the right angle with certain enemy types turned out to be a superficial addition at best for me. more interesting are the defense/offense mechanics of the shield and the strategic back and forth between sword and shield. but this isn't a requirement nearly often enough.
reviewers have mentioned the slower combat and many consider this to be a positive or simply don't mind because it is a part of seemingly "deeper combat mechanics". but to me, since i'm not really getting any more satisfaction out of the combat than i would have in twilight princess, this is a negative factor, one that isn't outweighed by the supposedly newly gained strategic depth.
the design, choreography (or lack there of) and timing of the fights in particular and the enemy encounters as a whole haven't changed much from earlier 3d zelda games. they still occur, for the most part, in very much the same way they have in twilight princess. and it's clear to me that this design was never intended for the kind of slower, more methodical approach to combat that we're seeing in skyward sword. this is particularly evident once you're surrounded by regular enemies that all require correctly angled slashes...
there is no good system in place to dispatch with a vicious crowd of enemies methodically or even slolwly and with precision, even though the mechanics of the swordplay are meant to be employed in just such a fashion. so despite the hypothetical precision of the sword controls, the very mechanics of the individual fights remain both rigid (much like the enemy a.i.) and imprecise. there's a disconnect here that disrupts the flow of adventuring. enemy encounters in zelda games have always been largely incidental, unpredictable, unchoreographed and unscripted. enemies just need to get out of the way. there's nothing wrong with that. yet clearly these new enemies still largely move and behave in a way that begs for that more old-fashioned approach. they are as mindless as they've ever been. it's not like i'm locked into an inescapable battle of wits with any of them. they were not designed with a sophisticated battle system in mind. and the need for correctly angled slashes is not gonna convince me otherwise.
so maybe this dichotomy, this contrast of old and new design is what some reviewers have been trying to express when they talk about the strange disconnect between two opposing design philosophies and their manifestations as something that always kind of wants to be fresh and new but is still held back by old conventions and quirks that now seem to clash with the bolder, newer ideas. i can even sort of understand the seemingly odd commentary (i believe it was egm's?) regarding the combat in twilight princess: something about how the motion controls felt better or were easier or more straightforward and therefore "better" in that game. they just weren't in the way of adventuring, exploring, puzzle solving, because they didn't require much time OR thought OR precision.
during boss fights all of this is usually less of a problem. these fights are largely designed around specific motions and attacks and are, by their nature, one-on-one. killing bosses also serves a specific purpose and is always a necessity. these fights are naturally harder and more dangerous. so a more methodical and slower approach will always be rewarding on some level. but then, the bosses in skyward sword are fantastic mostly for reasons that don't revolve around motion controls. but more on that later.
maybe skyward sword would have been a better game overall if they'd decided to either abandon all of those old conventions or stick with them and all their implications and quirks. i can't say for sure. at least in terms of combat and motion controls, being only "halfway there" seems to have done the game a disservice. the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying; what was a means to an end in previous 3d zelda games has now become a minor nuisance.
dungeons, items, overworld
ah yes, let's get into some of the good parts. from the 3rd dungeon forward the game really starts to shine. i have to give the designers credit for creating an abundance of clever and satisfying puzzles without 1) relying on a dozen locked doors and keys, 2) ever getting the player into a situation where he's overwhelmed or stuck with absolutely no clue how to progress and 3) relying on increasingly more complex and harder to navigate maps with lots of filler rooms to artificially bump the difficulty (as some previous zelda games have).
the dungeons only get better as the game progresses. there are some of the best and most ingenious puzzles in the series here. they are not the hardest. but that doesn't make them any less satisfying, quite the opposite. and there's many a subtly clever and incidental introduction to a new important mechanic. it puts a smile on your face when you first think that you just suddenly "accidentally" hit or triggered something or fell or did something that you didn't intend to do and then notice that the game is actually teaching you a new concept (sadly this is sometimes ruined by a design flaw i'll get into later).
almost all of the boss fights are great, but some of them are truly outstanding. the amount of twists and surprises they have in store is remarkable. they have more elaborate patterns, more forms, are more difficult and last considerably longer than they ever have in the zelda franchise. and they also make great use of the newly acquired items. fantastic stuff.
and finally the designers have done an excellent job of integrating all the available items into their puzzles. this has never been handled better in any previous zelda game. there's one in particular that is a bit underused, sadly, but it's not that big of a deal. that said, the items in general and the mechanics surrounding them are a high point of the game. this is where the motion controls shine. it's also one area where there really has been a bit of a revolution and even some much appreciated streamlining.
i appreciate that the overworld is for once filled with puzzles as well. really, much of the overworld consists of a linear trek to the respective dungeon, filled with (lesser) puzzles and enemies. the game is now painfully linear and this is a step back for the franchise. the addition of frequent mandatory fetch quests in the same areas doesn't help and can get quite aggravating.
linearity, hand-holding, spelling out everything for the player
why is it so bad that the game is completely linear? not that it would necessarily be a problem on its own. here are a few reasons why it's so problematic in ss and why it sticks out like a sore thumb:
1) the incessant handholding, guiding and frequent re-iteration of obvious concepts by fi, often immediately after another character just explained the same thing in great detail. frequently this is about your next task. example: some character: "maybe there's something interesting on top of that tree!", fi appears: "master! blah blah blah! i have analyzed the situation! blah blah blah! i have determined the following things blah blah blah i can now say with 85% probabality that your next task is up on that tree! blah blah blah! this tree is very dangerous! are you sure you are ready? blah blah blah! wait! i sense that there's something very evil and dangerous behind this giant boss door! i am 90% sure it is a boss. bosses are very dangerous! are you ready to fight this boss? blah blah blah."... where was i? oh yeah:
2) dowsing. this mechanic is often forced on you in an obnoxious way. but it is unnecessary 90% of the time. we used to just explore in previous zelda games. remember? if you rely on dowsing, what little exploration there is will be taken away from you. my advice: ignore it. it will be forced on you over and over again. fi will remind you, the dowsing symbol will flash on screen and an alert sound will go off and won't stop until you go into dowsing mode and then cancel. the game tries to trick you into thinking it's some sort of integral mechanic. i have consistently ignored it and i never ran into any problem or got stuck.
3) the fractured and isolated nature of the pre-dungeon segments. yes, some of them are more open and quite big even (in fact, sometimes these areas are more elaborate and longer than the actual dungeon!), but i certainly wouldn't call any of what you're doing in them "free exploration". the forest, for example, felt too boxy and small to me. it isn't so much the size of the maps, but the design of them. you always move from point a to point b. sure, sometimes you have to find a handful of things and they're scattered around a somewhat bigger area. once again though, as soon as something ISN'T just "point a to point b" you will get lots of WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE hints and the game will, well, "strongly encourage" you to use dowsing. i can't say there's a lot in this game that fits my definition of "exploration".
then there's the part where the game insists on spelling out the solutions or approaches to puzzles for you. here's a spoiler-free example from the 5th dungeon:
there's this really neat series of puzzles surrounding one particular mechanic and object. the implementation of this mechanic is quite clever. but you are completely robbed of the satisfaction of discovering it on your own, which is usually at least half the fun in puzzle solving. instead of subtly guiding you towards the solution - hell, i would have been fine with a quick camera pan in the direction of the object needed to solve the puzzle - fi outright tells you what to do once you're in the promixity of said object. she doesn't just tell you to do SOMETHIHNG with it, she tells you to do WHAT precisely. i actually did get somewhat angry when that happened. it made me feel bad for the guy who designed the puzzle and i was mad to have been robbed of the satisfaction of figuring it out on my own. and in this case the first step of the puzzle, which reveals the mechanic and the object needed to solve it, is actually the most clever part about it, so it's particularly infuriating.
sadly, the above is just one of many examples of poor design that insists on spoon-feeding solutions and beating the player over the head with not-so-subtle hints. this is the kind of bad design that exceedingly stands out and is especially annoying because it sits directly on top of GOOD design. you have these clever mechanics and frequently ingenious puzzles, but too often they're ruined by nonsense that was clearly added after the fact under the guise of accessiblity. i had to laugh when this quote from one of the many 10/10 reviews was posted in the other thread: "this game treats the player with respect!" i'm not sure i'd call this respect.
the opening minutes and hours
i don't necessarily mind an extensive setup before the first dungeon. that's not my problem with skyward sword. tp's was longer and i didn't mind it as much. the intro is also dragged down by the aforementioned hand-holding. but mostly i was bothered by the lack of urgency in both the setting and the premise in general. even in twilight princess things turned around prett quickly once you were out of the idyllic setting of your home town. only almost halfway through the game does this truly change in skyward sword. inititally there is just no sense of danger or mystery or the sense of a great adventure. something that's usually been present in every entry of the series.
as a sidenote: there's a reason why the game overall feels a bit slower than twilight princess: the text speed has been decreased considerably. when pressing a button, tp would load the whole text in a text box almost instantly and text would generally appear much faster. skyward sword's text speed is maddeningly slow on the other hand. and link's maximum running speed in tp is somewhere in between skyward sword's regular walking and running speed. only it isn't limited by a stamina meter (which didn't actually bother me while i was playing though).
the music
orchestrated music! finally! no really, great stuff. for the most part. it's a bit sad that the dungeon themes are the weakest of them all. some of them are downright irritating. but i really dig the many celtic inspired themes otherwise. a first for the series, i believe. overall a fantastic soundtrack.
that said...
again, skyward sword is a great game. i might still prefer twilight princess over it. i can't say for sure without replaying tp though. they still haven't made the perfect zelda game... oh wait, i almost forgot about link's awakening. but let's not get into that now.
you know what i really want next? a kind of "new legend of zelda" that cuts to the chase right away and has a minimalist story but tons of great dungeons and puzzles. i'd love that. absolutely MINIMAL setup and tutorial (kinda like lttp). outside of the gameplay and dungeons, the key to zelda's world and to what makes it so memorable and unique has always been setting and mood, NOT plot (just like with metroid). so i don't think stripping out big chunks of story has to hurt a (modern) zelda game at all.
----------------------
wow. how did this get so long? jesus christ. i still feel like i forgot half of what i wanted to say while i was writing. oh well.
were you expecting a score? i don't do scores.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Nothing better than being richer.
...Link with a maxed-out max wallet must be the richest person in whatever game he's in, right
butter_stick
Banned
The bosses are a lot of fun, but every one I've faced so far could have been done in Twilight Princess, perhaps with one exception (because it requires diagonal sword swipes)
They're still game highlights though. I can't fault the dungeon design or the bosses. Just a lot of fun, easily on par or better than TP.
They're still game highlights though. I can't fault the dungeon design or the bosses. Just a lot of fun, easily on par or better than TP.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The first boss, there's no way that would have been anywhere near as fun without the M+. No way.
butter_stick
Banned
You're implying it was fun. I can't agree with that.
It wouldn't be possible without M+ though, I agree.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
On the
dungeon right now, loving that and the newly acquired
!
Pirate Ship
bow
butter_stick
Banned
The thing I loved most about that sequence (and I loved all of it) is how I didn't even realise what I was doing was a "dungeon" until I saw the big door with the boss key lock on it. That's exactly the kind of change I've wanted in Zelda
Freyjadour
Member
Yeah Motion Plus adds a large amount of ass to an otherwise pretty good Zelda game, there's really no getting around that.
Yeah,
the only way I knew I was in a dungeon in SS most of the time was if I saw a door that was locked
Zomba13
Member
I had the exact same experience. Really enjoyed that dungeon too.
3d dot game heroes might not have had great stuff, but i thought it was pretty good. you've probably already played it though, iirc.
thanks for the impressions/spoiler-free review.
Hot Coldman
Banned
And one-hit deaths... and no saving apart from after a boss. You know if they set out to make an expert mode, they're going to make something that would tear you apart.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
So hang on. This the ordering of Zeldas chronologically is SS -> OoT -> TP right?
Ok, so how come the area names have alternated between the three? Or am I just being dumb about this? >_>
Thoughts on the game so far: Up to dungeon 3 and loving it
Ok, so how come the area names have alternated between the three? Or am I just being dumb about this? >_>
Thoughts on the game so far: Up to dungeon 3 and loving it
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Yeah Im going to wait until 11 AM tomorrow. My last two attempts for a midnight pick-up at Wal-Mart failed miserably. The 3DS they wouldn't sell to me even though they had them and with OOT 3D the lady was convinced that they only sold it online because the website had it listed as an "online purchase only" (pre-order). It's not worth the headache...
friskykillface
Banned
first world problems etc blah blah blah rant
I could have gotten Zelda today :/ stupid amazon rep
amazon rep told me they wouldn't charge my card til tuesday since it would be coming Wednesday here, why its coming wednesday when im a prime member blows my mind, stupid sunday releases.
so i get an email this morning saying they attempted to charge my card but since i planned on putting any cash in til monday for tuesday i couldnt get charged and my shipment was delayed.
this happened with my 3DS order , i got it the day before its sunday release .
whelp this might be it for amazon orders on new release date games, might just buy it at toys r us tomorrow, at least they give a $10 gift card with purchase.
I could have gotten Zelda today :/ stupid amazon rep
amazon rep told me they wouldn't charge my card til tuesday since it would be coming Wednesday here, why its coming wednesday when im a prime member blows my mind, stupid sunday releases.
so i get an email this morning saying they attempted to charge my card but since i planned on putting any cash in til monday for tuesday i couldnt get charged and my shipment was delayed.
this happened with my 3DS order , i got it the day before its sunday release .
whelp this might be it for amazon orders on new release date games, might just buy it at toys r us tomorrow, at least they give a $10 gift card with purchase.Hot Coldman
Banned
So hang on. This the ordering of Zeldas chronologically is SS -> OoT -> TP right?
Ok, so how come the area names have alternated between the three? Or am I just being dumb about this? >_>
Thoughts on the game so far: Up to dungeon 3 and loving it
You got the chronology right. I guess this game retcons the province names from TP as always being in effect, even though they're never mentioned in Ocarina (which is fair, seeing as Hyrule in Ocarina was so small).
Here's some light spoilers on that:
SS takes place before the formation of Hyrule Kingdom, certain names are pretty clearly made up by Hylian people, and races like the Zora aren't featured in the game so there's no "Zora's Domain." There's also no central location for the Gorons yet (they're everywhere) The game kind of explains where the name Lake Hylia comes from though.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Great review jarosh! I hope the next Zelda game has a Veteran mode, where all the help messages and things like that are gone.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Does anyone have a list of changes for Hero Mode? If it's just harder, I'll start with it.
But I heard some text might be changed?
But I heard some text might be changed?
Surprising. I'm playing on Dolphin and find the controls super responsive. And not once has it registered a wrong move. There's room for improvement, of course... but I just don't find the controls slow at all.
Outside of boss fights and a few puzzles, the motion controls don't really add much from what I've played so far. However, I'm finding combat a lot more enjoyable than previous Zelda titles... which basically just required button mashing.
Thanks for your final impressions, jarosh. I really enjoyed reading them. I've read so many reviews and impressions that I'm just ready to experience the game myself with an open mind to the changes this Zelda seems to offer, positive or negative.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Is anyone else going through this as quick as me? 9 hours in, and I've beaten two dungeons. I was expecting me to be taking a bit longer, at least 10 hours by now. I'm unaware of any sidequests I've missed (though I'm probably wrong on that). 9 hours, 2 dungeons: that sound about right to anyone else?
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I think you're moving too slow actually.
But again, dungeon count isn't a good representative of progression in this game.
How long are the pre-dungeon areas generally?
Hot Coldman
Banned
Fair enough. Too slow is awesome. I like to think I'm making the most of my time with a game. :lol (Especially if the next game could be another 5 years away)
Outtrigger888
Member
Sounds correct. Even twilight princess with the 5 hour tutorial took around 10 hours to get through the first 2 dungeons.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I don't get why people call them pre dungeons. Dungeons are just parts of the area now, and you are going to spend a lot of time traveling through the overworld.
If you are strictly speaking of the time between one dungeon and the next.. eh.. I don't know I tend to do some sidequest and stuff when I finish a dungeon so I can't really say.
Damn.
Perfect impressions. Sums up my feelings almost exactly.
I'm only 25 hours in (fourth dungeon) so I'm not done, but up to where I am...that's about perfect.
I think if you were to put a score on that it would be a 2/10, though. Bwahaha, suck it Metacritic!