Support NeoGAF

[Famassu]

I thought it was difficult for me to be critical of Zelda, and then they made Wind Waker and Majora's Mask. I've been playing Wind Waker today and while I've been too hard on it in these threads, I still find it very cumbersome to play.

Lulwut? Majora's Mask is the best 3d Zelda and Wind Waker is a close third after MM & OoT.

If anything, it was the DS Zeldas & Twilight Princess that taught me how meh-worthy Zeldas can be (Twilight Princess is bleh during its worst moments, DS Zeldas are meh all the way through). Wind Waker & Majora's Mask are still awesome (excluding WW's fetch quest).

 

[Hot Coldman]

I thought it was difficult for me to be critical of Zelda, and then they made Wind Waker and Majora's Mask. I've been playing Wind Waker today and while I've been too hard on it in these threads, I still find it very cumbersome to play.

Really? I think they could streamline a lot of things- although doing so would probably mean removing the Wind Waker and replacing the songs with items- but apart from that, it's not all that of a chore to play. By Zelda standards, anyway. It rewards exploration incredibly well- the only bad thing is limiting it until you reach the Tower of the Gods.

I like it more each time I play it. One thing that strikes me is the range of moves Link has- crawling, sidling, parrying, using enemies weapons... he's easily the most versatile Link there is (ignoring Young Link's masks) so far.

 

[lazybones18]

Great OP

Short, sweet, and to the point

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Oh God. OH GOD YES!
(Gerudo Valley performed for the Anniversary CD)

Jizz-tacular stuff. Kondo's replacement has big motherfuckin' shoes to fill. Goddamn.

I wish we got music like this in a Zelda game.

Hopefully my friend gets his Wii from his in-laws. I want to get this game on day zero.

 

[Bluemercury]

Uncharted 3 had trouble filling the hole left in anticipating some third rate piece of shovelware, let alone Zelda!

So not a fan o Uncharted he? Regarding Rayman Origins which version is the one to get?

 

[Divvy]

Really? I think they could streamline a lot of things- although doing so would probably mean removing the Wind Waker and replacing the songs with items- but apart from that, it's not all that of a chore to play. By Zelda standards, anyway. It rewards exploration incredibly well- the only bad thing is limiting it until you reach the Tower of the Gods.

I like it more each time I play it. One thing that strikes me is the range of moves Link has- crawling, sidling, parrying, using enemies weapons... he's easily the most versatile Link there is (ignoring Young Link's masks) so far.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. I thought wind waker had the best exploration of all Zeldas. I never had any issue with the triforce hunt either, but the stealth in the fortress was kind of a buzzkill so early in the game for me.

 

[ASIS]

So I got the game, and I just want to know if proof is still needed to provide impressions.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. I thought wind waker had the best exploration of all Zeldas. I never had any issue with the triforce hunt either, but the stealth in the fortress was kind of a buzzkill so early in the game for me.

I started a new game last night, and as I was doing that bit (which is much easier than I remembered), I thought to myself, we're never going to see an opening like that again, are we? It was kinda a bad way to start the game (especially considering how gorgeous the game is, and how Forsaken Fortress is probably the ugliest part of it), but in terms of intention (throw you into the heart of the enemy territory within the first hour) it had the potential to be seriously exciting and intense. I see future beginnings being more subdued though, following in the footsteps of Ocarina.

Triforce Hunt is pretty sweet once you get a taste for going off on your own and exploring. You need to throw yourself into the world, and adapt the treasure hunter mindset, otherwise you're just going to hate it and beg for the next 'proper Zelda' bit to come along. The Tingle stuff is absolute bollocks still, and cements that part as the worst part of the game for sure, but it's a unique kind of exciting tracking down charts and finding Triforce pieces, I find.

The key is to fill up that map nice and early. As soon as you leave Dragon Roost, never leave a new square of map without feeding the fishman!

 

[Kard8p3]

So I got the game, and I just want to know if proof is still needed to provide impressions.

As far as I know you still need to provide proof pre-release.

 

[ASIS]

As far as I know you still need to provide proof pre-release.

I see, well then i'm gonna do it tomorrow cause I'm going to bed soon anyway.

 

[Divvy]

I started a new game last night, and as I was doing that bit (which is much easier than I remembered), I thought to myself, we're never going to see an opening like that again, are we? It was kinda a bad way to start the game (especially considering how gorgeous the game is, and how Forsaken Fortress is probably the ugliest part of it), but in terms of intention (throw you into the heart of the enemy territory within the first hour) it had the potential to be seriously exciting and intense. I see future beginnings being more subdued though, following in the footsteps of Ocarina.

Triforce Hunt is pretty sweet once you get a taste for going off on your own and exploring. You need to throw yourself into the world, and adapt the treasure hunter mindset, otherwise you're just going to hate it and beg for the next 'proper Zelda' bit to come along. The Tingle stuff is absolute bollocks still, and cements that part as the worst part of the game for sure, but it's a unique kind of exciting tracking down charts and finding Triforce pieces, I find.

The key is to fill up that map nice and early. As soon as you leave Dragon Roost, never leave a new square of map without feeding the fishman!

Well I have major gaming OCD as in I have to go find everything in ever corner so the triforce hunt wasn't anything I wasn't already doing.

EDIT: Submitted before I was finished.

Anyways if you really get into the sailing and exploring, windwaker is utterly fantastic, I loved every minute of it aside from the fortress. I guess at that point I'm always just so looking forward to exploring but I have to go through that first. The only thing that detracts from the game imo are the dungeons which are kind of weak. The amazing dungeons in TP are why I can look past the boring stuff you have to do.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I have OCD with that game now. Didn't first time through it, because I thought I'd get destroyed by giant Peahats in every new square :lol

The Wind Waker Symphonic Movement on the CD that comes with SS... is it just me, or do these sound almost identical to the original music. Astonishing. That speaks incredibly well to the quality of the original OST.

 

[crustikid]

does anyone know if gamestop is having early openings next sunday in lieu of a midnight launch?

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Wind waker final boss orchestra: Link

O.O

Ye gads, haven't been amped for a game so much in so long. Dat Zelda hype.

 

[AceBandage]

Wind waker final boss orchestra: Link

O.O

Ye gads, haven't been amped for a game so much in so long. Dat Zelda hype.

Mother of God...
That entire thing is amazing.

 

[Satchel]

Been waiting for 5 years for this game.

Got my LE ordered bitcheeeeeeeeees!!

Love every Zelda game...except Wind Waker and the DS games.

 

[Rehynn]

Just checking in, I'll be back when I get the game on the 18th.

Nice OP, Amirox.

 

[Anth0ny]

I'll be at the Toronto launch event one week from today! Hype!!!



And that orchestrated album was one of the first albums in a long time that gave me goosebumps. SO GOOD

 

[cajunator]

I will be the one person who likes Wind Waker more than any other Zelda. I am fine with this.

 

[jarosh]

asking in here again:

does anyone know the reward for collecting (all the) bugs? i've been collecting a bunch, but i'm not sure if it's worth the hassle and if i should keep bothering...

 

[Knux-Future]

Oh God. OH GOD YES!
(Gerudo Valley performed for the Anniversary CD)

Jizz-tacular stuff. Kondo's replacement has big motherfuckin' shoes to fill. Goddamn.

dude.

I had words but yeah...can't find them anymore.

just wow...

 

[Rehynn]

I will be the one person who likes Wind Waker more than any other Zelda. I am fine with this.

No, I know another guy. He also happens to prefer Half-Life 1 to HL2.

 

[Dark Schala]

I'll be at the Toronto launch event one week from today! Hype!!!

Augh, I wish I could go to that. It's too bad I don't go to school downtown anymore. :/

Take pics! Are you going to the Eaton's Centre thingy (like on the 18th)?

 

[Hot Coldman]

That Gerudo Valley arrangement is a perfect example of taking a piece of music, removing it from the original context, allowing yourself to do extraordinary things with it, and meeting that challenge head-on.

 

[Chet Rippo]

Still just a little more than a week away... I can almost taste it!

 

[DrForester]

I will be the one person who likes Wind Waker more than any other Zelda. I am fine with this.

If it helps It's my favorite 3D Zelda game (and overall, second only to LTTP).

 

[Goody]

Limited Edition is now paid in full. I haven't watched an entire trailer besides the reveal trailer, I know hardly anything about this game. I am so ready.

 

[DrForester]

does anyone know if gamestop is having early openings next sunday in lieu of a midnight launch?

I'd imagine they'd be on Holiday hours, so no need to open early.

 

[Anth0ny]

Augh, I wish I could go to that. It's too bad I don't go to school downtown anymore. :/

Take pics! Are you going to the Eaton's Centre thingy (like on the 18th)?

Yup, I'll be there Saturday the 19th. I'll take pics if any of my friends have a good camera >_>

 

[trinest]

Been listing to the music videos on youtube and the gameplay walkthroughs.

I want this game now dam it!

 

[Jzero]

Damn, didn't know there was an OT yet. Oh well 8 more days for me :/

Btw, can't wait until everyone starts posting a picture of the box on here :lol

 

[LOCK]

Just read OP, great job at being simple but also hyping up the game.

 

[kayos90]

Nice and simple but a bit too simple in my taste. Great OP though

 

[MetalGuardian]

Hold me GAF, my poor heart can't take the wait any longer

 

[Xane]

Oh, didn't know we had an OT now, sorry.
So I'll leave this here too. I'm trying to keep this channel as spoiler free as possible, so no Last Boss Battle Theme or anything. ;P

http://www.youtube.com/user/SkywardSwordSound/

 

[olimpia84]

For those of us that ordered through Amazon when can we expect to get the game?

 

[HylianScribe]

asking in here again:

does anyone know the reward for collecting (all the) bugs? i've been collecting a bunch, but i'm not sure if it's worth the hassle and if i should keep bothering...

Not sure.

Spoiler

You can sell them to what's-his-face at night in the academy, but I think that might be it other than using them to enhance your potions. I got all the raw materials on the right side of that menu, and nothing happened

.

 

[brandonh83]

Lulwut? Majora's Mask is the best 3d Zelda and Wind Waker is a close third after MM & OoT.

Dude, believe me, you're not the only Majora's Mask lover on GAF. It's just not what I wanted out of a Zelda game. I liked the atmosphere and level design that it carried around though.

 

[maeda]

No, I know another guy. He also happens to prefer Half-Life 1 to HL2.

What's wrong with preferring HL1 to HL2? HL1 was essentially the first FPS that I finished. That was in 2008. It made me fall in love with the FPS genre and realize that there is a huge world of games that influenced the games I love, like MP. It had that something that none of the console games had. Yet it clearly was inspired by the atmosphere of Super Metroid and clearly inspired Metroid Prime. It managed to create an absolutely unmatched illusion of a real openness of the world, yet at the same time was one of the most linear games I have ever played. I actually think Valve just got lucky, because they have never been able to replicate that feeling in me; in fact no game has ever managed to do that. At the same time I still love most of their games.

 

[Amir0x]

So not a fan o Uncharted he? Regarding Rayman Origins which version is the one to get?

I'm not really a fan, no, but I thought Uncharted 1 was decent and Uncharted 2 was pretty good. Uncharted 3, however, was a big step back. That said, I'll maybe post my thoughts on the game in the UC3 topic another day. Don't need THAT debate here

With Rayman Origins, I'm getting the PS3 version in case the Vita version gets perks if you also have that version, but I can't imagine there's any real difference between the 360 and PS3 titles. They're both 1080p titles that run at 60fps on either platform, as far as I've heard. So whichever system you have, get it. If you have neither of those, then get it on Wii obviously.

I started a new game last night, and as I was doing that bit (which is much easier than I remembered), I thought to myself, we're never going to see an opening like that again, are we? It was kinda a bad way to start the game (especially considering how gorgeous the game is, and how Forsaken Fortress is probably the ugliest part of it), but in terms of intention (throw you into the heart of the enemy territory within the first hour) it had the potential to be seriously exciting and intense. I see future beginnings being more subdued though, following in the footsteps of Ocarina.

Triforce Hunt is pretty sweet once you get a taste for going off on your own and exploring. You need to throw yourself into the world, and adapt the treasure hunter mindset, otherwise you're just going to hate it and beg for the next 'proper Zelda' bit to come along. The Tingle stuff is absolute bollocks still, and cements that part as the worst part of the game for sure, but it's a unique kind of exciting tracking down charts and finding Triforce pieces, I find.

The key is to fill up that map nice and early. As soon as you leave Dragon Roost, never leave a new square of map without feeding the fishman!

I love Wind Waker, one of my favorite Zelda's, but I definitely think the exploration wouldn't have felt as tedious if you didn't need to constantly change wind direction in order to change your actual direction. What a world of difference that would have made in the journey

i am praising the flying spaghetti monster that we don't need to change wind direction to fly about in Skyward Sword.

 

[jarosh]

some spoiler-free thoughts on the combat:

i feel that during combat, motion controls and motion plus in particular don't add as much as people might have expected or wished for. i certainly wouldn't call any of it "revolutionary". but then, zelda has never been about a deep and complex combat system and this doesn't change with skyward sword. the necessity of having to slash at the right angle with certain enemy types turned out to be a superficial addition at best for me. more interesting are the defense/offense mechanics of the shield and the strategic back and forth between sword and shield. but this isn't a requirement nearly often enough.

reviewers have mentioned the slower combat and many consider this to be a positive or simply don't mind because it is a part of seemingly "deeper combat mechanics". but to me, since i'm not really getting any more satisfaction out of the combat than i would have in twilight princess, this is a negative factor, one that isn't outweighed by the supposedly newly gained strategic depth.

the design, choreography and timing of the fights in particular and the enemy encounters as a whole haven't changed much from earlier 3d zelda games. they still occur, for the most part, in very much the same way they have in twilight princess. and it's clear to me that this design was never intended for the kind of slower, more methodical approach to combat that we're seeing in skyward sword now. this is particularly evident once you're surrounded by lesser enemies that all require correctly angled slashes. there is no good system in place to dispatch with a vicious crowd of enemies methodically or even slolwly and with precision, even though the mechanics of the swordplay are meant to be employed in just such a fashion. so despite the precision of the sword controls, the very mechanics of the individual fights remain both rigid (much like the enemy a.i.) and imprecise. clearly these enemies move and behave in a way that begs for a more old-fashioned approach. and there's a disconnect here that disrupts the flow of adventuring.

and maybe this dichotomy, this contrast of old and new design is what some reviewers have been trying to express when they talk about the strange disconnect between two opposing design philosophies and their manifestations as something that always kind of wants to be fresh and new but is still held back by old conventions and quirks that now seem to clash with the bolder, newer ideas. i can even sort of understand the seemingly odd commentary (i believe it was egm's?) regarding the combat in twilight princess: something about how the motion controls felt better or were easier or more straightforward and therefore "better" in that game. they just weren't in the way of adventuring, exploring, puzzle solving, because they didn't require much time OR thought OR precision.

maybe skyward sword would have been a better game overall if they'd decided to either abandon all of those old conventions or stick with them and all their implications and quirks. i can't say for sure. at least in terms of combat and motion controls, being only "halfway there" seems to have done the game a disservice. the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying; what was a means to an end in previous 3d zelda games has now become a minor nuisance.

 

[Sirius]

My body is so ready...

 

[cajunator]

I'm not really a fan, no, but I thought Uncharted 1 was decent and Uncharted 2 was pretty good. Uncharted 3, however, was a big step back. That said, I'll maybe post my thoughts on the game in the UC3 topic another day. Don't need THAT debate here

With Rayman Origins, I'm getting the PS3 version in case the Vita version gets perks if you also have that version, but I can't imagine there's any real difference between the 360 and PS3 titles. They're both 1080p titles that run at 60fps on either platform, as far as I've heard. So whichever system you have, get it. If you have neither of those, then get it on Wii obviously.



I love Wind Waker, one of my favorite Zelda's, but I definitely think the exploration wouldn't have felt as tedious if you didn't need to constantly change wind direction in order to change your actual direction. What a world of difference that would have made in the journey

i am praising the flying spaghetti monster that we don't need to change wind direction to fly about in Skyward Sword.

It wouldnt be as tedious, but I like the effect of changing the wind. Having control of the wind seems like a very Zelda-esque ability for Link. Not to mention that it would be kind of difficult to have a bleievable sailboat without the wind affecting its trajectory. But maybe skipping that animation might have had a better flow.

 

[JaskoX1]

Great OP

Short, sweet, and to the point

Battlefield avatar lol

 

[Amir0x]

some spoiler-free thoughts on the combat:

i feel that during combat, motion controls and motion plus in particular don't add as much as people might have expected or wished for. i certainly wouldn't call any of it "revolutionary". but then, zelda has never been about a deep and complex combat system and this doesn't change with skyward sword. the necessity of having to slash at the right angle with certain enemy types turned out to be a superficial addition at best for me. more interesting are the defense/offense mechanics of the shield and the strategic back and forth between sword and shield. but this isn't a requirement nearly often enough.

reviewers have mentioned the slower combat and many consider this to be a positive or simply don't mind because it is a part of seemingly "deeper combat mechanics". but to me, since i'm not really getting any more satisfaction out of the combat than i would have in twilight princess, this is a negative factor, one that isn't outweighed by the supposedly newly gained strategic depth.

the design, choreography and timing of the fights in particular and the enemy encounters as a whole haven't changed much from earlier 3d zelda games. they still occur, for the most part, in very much the same way they have in twilight princess. and it's clear to me that this design was never intended for the kind of slower, more methodical approach to combat that we're seeing in skyward sword now. this is particularly evident once you're surrounded by lesser enemies that all require correctly angled slashes. there is no good system in place to dispatch with a vicious crowd of enemies methodically or even slolwly and with precision, even though the mechanics of the swordplay are meant to be employed in just such a fashion. so despite the precision of the sword controls, the very mechanics of the individual fights remain both rigid (much like the enemy a.i.) and imprecise. clearly these enemies move and behave in a way that begs for a more old-fashioned approach. and there's a disconnect here that disrupts the flow of adventuring.

and maybe this dichotomy, this contrast of old and new design is what some reviewers have been trying to express when they talk about the strange disconnect between two opposing design philosophies and their manifestations as something that always kind of wants to be fresh and new but is still held back by old conventions and quirks that now seem to clash with the bolder, newer ideas. i can even sort of understand the seemingly odd commentary (i believe it was egm's?) regarding the combat in twilight princess: something about how the motion controls felt better or were easier or more straightforward and therefore "better" in that game. they just weren't in the way of adventuring, exploring, puzzle solving, because they didn't require much time OR thought OR precision.

maybe skyward sword would have been a better game overall if they'd decided to either abandon all of those old conventions or stick with them and all their implications and quirks. i can't say for sure. at least in terms of combat and motion controls, being only "halfway there" seems to have done the game a disservice. the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying; what was a means to an end in previous 3d zelda games has now become a minor nuisance.

Fantastic, honest impressions. Yeah, it's always been the motion combat that has bothered me about this. But my hope was that in bosses (1 on 1) it'd be really cool, and that the puzzle design utilizing motion+ would make up for it. And of course the sweet dungeon/world design. But you don't think it was worth it, or do you just think everything else could have been kept as-is if they went back to the Twilight Princess motion-style combat system?

 

[DrForester]

some spoiler-free thoughts on the combat:

i feel that during combat, motion controls and motion plus in particular don't add as much as people might have expected or wished for. i certainly wouldn't call any of it "revolutionary". but then, zelda has never been about a deep and complex combat system and this doesn't change with skyward sword. the necessity of having to slash at the right angle with certain enemy types turned out to be a superficial addition at best for me. more interesting are the defense/offense mechanics of the shield and the strategic back and forth between sword and shield. but this isn't a requirement nearly often enough.

reviewers have mentioned the slower combat and many consider this to be a positive or simply don't mind because it is a part of seemingly "deeper combat mechanics". but to me, since i'm not really getting any more satisfaction out of the combat than i would have in twilight princess, this is a negative factor, one that isn't outweighed by the supposedly newly gained strategic depth.

the design, choreography and timing of the fights in particular and the enemy encounters as a whole haven't changed much from earlier 3d zelda games. they still occur, for the most part, in very much the same way they have in twilight princess. and it's clear to me that this design was never intended for the kind of slower, more methodical approach to combat that we're seeing in skyward sword now. this is particularly evident once you're surrounded by lesser enemies that all require correctly angled slashes. there is no good system in place to dispatch with a vicious crowd of enemies methodically or even slolwly and with precision, even though the mechanics of the swordplay are meant to be employed in just such a fashion. so despite the precision of the sword controls, the very mechanics of the individual fights remain both rigid (much like the enemy a.i.) and imprecise. clearly these enemies move and behave in a way that begs for a more old-fashioned approach. and there's a disconnect here that disrupts the flow of adventuring.

and maybe this dichotomy, this contrast of old and new design is what some reviewers have been trying to express when they talk about the strange disconnect between two opposing design philosophies and their manifestations as something that always kind of wants to be fresh and new but is still held back by old conventions and quirks that now seem to clash with the bolder, newer ideas. i can even sort of understand the seemingly odd commentary (i believe it was egm's?) regarding the combat in twilight princess: something about how the motion controls felt better or were easier or more straightforward and therefore "better" in that game. they just weren't in the way of adventuring, exploring, puzzle solving, because they didn't require much time OR thought OR precision.

maybe skyward sword would have been a better game overall if they'd decided to either abandon all of those old conventions or stick with them and all their implications and quirks. i can't say for sure. at least in terms of combat and motion controls, being only "halfway there" seems to have done the game a disservice. the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying; what was a means to an end in previous 3d zelda games has now become a minor nuisance.

I agree about the mobs of smaller enemies part. Would also agree that the enemies are less suited to the slower combat that comes with motion +. At the same time I appreciate the more challenge and more thought that has to go into attacks because of that. You're not just mowing down waves of enemies till you get to that boss.

In what i've played so far, my only annoyance was the bomb bowling. Took a little getting used to, and even though it's easy once you get it, I find it really did t add much to the bomb item.

Fantastic, honest impressions. Yeah, it's always been the motion combat that has bothered me about this. But my hope was that in bosses (1 on 1) it'd be really cool, and that the puzzle design utilizing motion+ would make up for it. And of course the sweet dungeon/world design. But you don't think it was worth it, or do you just think everything else could have been kept as-is if they went back to the Twilight Princess motion-style combat system?

I would definitely say in the few boss fights I've done so far that much more attention was paid to using motion + than the minor enemies you encounter along the way.

As has been noted by people playing the demo, the first boss really is there to establish that you need to think out your attacks, and TP style waggle will just result in your death.

 

[oatmeal]

They fixed it for the rupees, but it's still there for other collectibles.

It's much worse now, though.

The bug/collectibles takes a lot longer because it has to show you in your inventory where it fits.

Terrible.

 

[Mistle]

It's much worse now, though.

The bug/collectibles takes a lot longer because it has to show you in your inventory where it fits.

Terrible.

Why, Nintendo...

 

[Xun]

Subscribed.

Bring it on!

 

[jarosh]

Fantastic, honest impressions. Yeah, it's always been the motion combat that has bothered me about this. But my hope was that in bosses (1 on 1) it'd be really cool, and that the puzzle design utilizing motion+ would make up for it. And of course the sweet dungeon/world design. But you don't think it was worth it, or do you just think everything else could have been kept as-is if they went back to the Twilight Princess motion-style combat system?

yes, indeed, during boss fights the motion combat seems to be more interesting, because they're so focused and one on one and because you're forced to be methodical. i'm not THAT far into the game (~15 hours), but not all of the boss fights have been slow and full of precision sword fighting, there are still some frantic ones where the methodical approach is less successfull or just unnecessary. some require unique strategies (not involving the sword) in order to break through their defenses but then oddly rely only on random waggle to actually attack and hurt the boss.

it's hard for me to say whether the motion controls were really worth it. i'll have to finish the game first before i can say that for sure. but before i go to bed i'm gonna list a bunch of noteworthy pros and cons that have stuck out for me. just really quick and dirty:

pros:

- orchestrated music
- flying and the sky as an overworld (motion controls are straightforward and flawless here)
- all the mechanics surrounding the bird, jumping off a ledge and calling it etc., jumping off the bird and landing etc.
- link's agility (running up walls, hanging from ledges, running and rolling in general feel satisfying)
- item menus/ui
- the beetle! very fun item
- being able to set a beacon on the map that you can see from afar, wherever you want! OMG! in a zelda game!
- orchestrated music

cons:

- the fractured, disconnected world (makes the world feel much less alive)
- pre-dungeon areas are extremely isolated and painfully linear, some of them literally feel like a bunch of corridors instead of hubs, towns, fields etc. (like in previous zelda games)
- slow beginning combined with constant handholding and beating over the head with unnecessary "hints"
- fi (one-dimensional, somewhat obnoxious sidekick with zero charm, especially compared to midna)
- the lack of urgency and mystery in plot, setting and storytelling (there is no sense of any of this being very important or of there being any real danger for a veeeeery long time)


i'll post my thoughts on the actual contents of the dungeons tomorrow, because i need to write a little more there...