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[NecrosaroIII]

So when Galadriel is on that boat going to the Undying Lands is that what Gandalf was talking about in this quote?

PIPPIN: I didn't think it would end this way.
GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.
PIPPIN: What? Gandalf? See what?
GANDALF: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
PIPPIN: Well, that isn't so bad.
GANDALF: No. No, it isn't.”

lol maybe it was obvious but when i watched that scene that's what i was reminded of. The sky/clouds parting and seeing a faint outline of the land and a tree. We saw Frodo sail off to the Undying Lands but we never seen him getting that close. I never connected the two until now.

The short answer is: Yes it is.

The long answer is a little more complicated. Peter Jackson decided to use the Undying Lands / Valinor as a metaphor for death. The description he used for that dialogue is taken straight from the text from a dream Frodo has about eventually going to Valinor. However, in the books Valinor is not where ALL dead people go. Only the elves (their "fea" (essence / soul) rest in a place there called The Halls of Mandos, before being reincarnated). No one knows what happens to everyone else. That said, Valinor is not a place of death. It's literally where most elves live. After the war against Morgoth, the bulk of the elves that went to war go there to return home. They're not dying. Just oging back to where they came from. They live with the Valar, sort of like angels of Middle earth

 

[Kacho]

Is this supposed to be the same continuity as the movies?

Yes.

I liked the first 2 episodes, if anything, it's way better than The Witcher show.

I agree that it’s better than Witcher but I also think they’re very similar in terms of delivering weird, watered down versions of these fantasy worlds. Both felt off to me.

 

[nightmare-slain]

The short answer is: Yes it is.

The long answer is a little more complicated. Peter Jackson decided to use the Undying Lands / Valinor as a metaphor for death. The description he used for that dialogue is taken straight from the text from a dream Frodo has about eventually going to Valinor. However, in the books Valinor is not where ALL dead people go. Only the elves (their "fea" (essence / soul) rest in a place there called The Halls of Mandos, before being reincarnated). No one knows what happens to everyone else. That said, Valinor is not a place of death. It's literally where most elves live. After the war against Morgoth, the bulk of the elves that went to war go there to return home. They're not dying. Just oging back to where they came from. They live with the Valar, sort of like angels of Middle earth

Thanks!

I've only read Hobbit/LOTR and outside that my knowledge only comes from googling shit lol. I enjoyed both episodes and I think it's finally time I start reading the LOTR appendices, silmarillion, and unfinished tales. I always had another book to read but right now I've not got anything so I can jump right in I'm fascinated by the world Tolkien created and can't wait to learn a lot more.

 

[GymWolf]

Is this supposed to be the same continuity as the movies? Kind of a hard sell as Elrond in this looks like someone stepped on his head as a kid...

I thought i was the only one who thought about that, dude's head shape just look kinda hilarious

 

[nightmare-slain]

I thought i was the only one who thought about that, dude's head shape just look kinda hilarious

I want to see him fight Matt Smith. Who has the strongest jawline wins!

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

I thought i was the only one who thought about that, dude's head shape just look kinda hilarious

What's even weirder is that the Celebrimbor dude looks exactly like an older version of this guy...

 

[GymWolf]

What's even weirder is that the Celebrimbor dude looks exactly like an older version of this guy...

I only know celebrimor from mordor games, not exactly a lotr hardcore fan like many people in here.

 

[nightmare-slain]

What's even weirder is that the Celebrimbor dude looks exactly like an older version of this guy...

what is it with english people having mushy faces?

 

[GymWolf]

I want to see him fight Matt Smith. Who has the strongest jawline wins!

Matt has nothing on that mutant.

 

[Artoris]

I thought i was the only one who thought about that, dude's head shape just look kinda hilarious

He reminded me more of one of Santa's elves

 

[nightmare-slain]

Matt has nothing on that mutant.

he'd make a good elf though.

 

[GymWolf]

he'd make a good elf though.

Or addams familiy's lurch...

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Thanks!

I've only read Hobbit/LOTR and outside that my knowledge only comes from googling shit lol. I enjoyed both episodes and I think it's finally time I start reading the LOTR appendices, silmarillion, and unfinished tales. I always had another book to read but right now I've not got anything so I can jump right in I'm fascinated by the world Tolkien created and can't wait to learn a lot more.

Enjoy. Silmarillion can be overwhelming at first with it's similar names for characters, but that's actually helpful. For the most part, families are more important than specific characters so being able to group family members by their similar names kind of helps.

I actually find it to be more enjoyable than LotR. It's scale makes LotR look like kid shit.

 

[BadBurger]

Rewatching ep2. Durin tells Elrond "The dog may bark at the moon. But he cannot bring it down". Nice reference to Roverandom - probably my favorite collection of works from Tolkien.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Or addams familiy's lurch...

 

[GymWolf]

That's fester...

 

[Artoris]

he makes a strange uncle fester

 

[nightmare-slain]

Enjoy. Silmarillion can be overwhelming at first with it's similar names for characters, but that's actually helpful. For the most part, families are more important than specific characters so being able to group family members by their similar names kind of helps.

I actually find it to be more enjoyable than LotR. It's scale makes LotR look like kid shit.

I only read a little bit of it. Maybe the first few pages.

I thought LOTR was impressive but even from what I know I can tell it's just a small part of the whole world Tolkien created. I can read through The Hobbit/LOTR quite quickly but it feels overwhelming the thought of going through Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales and then the history of middle earth books. To read everything he created will take me a long time.

That's fester...

That's elrond...

 

[GymWolf]

I only read a little bit of it. Maybe the first few pages.

I thought LOTR was impressive but even from what I know I can tell it's just a small part of the whole world Tolkien created. I can read through The Hobbit/LOTR quite quickly but it feels overwhelming the thought of going through Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales and then the history of middle earth books. To read everything he created will take me a long time.


That's elrond...

He looks like a fat voldemort.

 

[nightmare-slain]

He looks like a fat voldemort.

Now he does

 

[Kev Kev]

That was an incredible first 2 episodes, hate having to wait another week. Show looks amazing on a 65 inch LG OLED and the sound design is amazing on my Paradigm speakers.

I'm fine with the story slowly unfolding, tension slowly building throughout episode 2.

I had no idea Gandalf would be in this, if it's him.

I have no idea why anyone would have issues with dialogue in this. I honestly have no idea what the difference is between this and the LOTR trilogy.

Why do people hate Galadrial effortlessly killing a troll but are OK with how Legolas handles his combat scenarios with ease?

It was glorious. Honestly surpassed my expectations, I'm loving the show so far. Can't wait for more.

And the hate boner crowd are either trolling, or they've convinced themselves they are going to hate it no matter what, so they are grasping for any straw they can like dialogue or choreography. It's really quite sad. Just pathetic losers who are internet only type of people, spewing nonsense while the rest of the real world is enjoying a pretty damn cool TV show.

 

[GymWolf]

It was glorious. Honestly surpassed my expectations, I'm loving the show so far. Can't wait for more.

And the hate boner crowd are either trolling, or they've convinced themselves they are going to hate it no matter what, so they are grasping for any straw they can like dialogue or choreography. It's really quite sad. Just pathetic losers who are internet only type of people, spewing nonsense while the rest of the real world is enjoying a pretty damn cool TV show.

Jesus dude never heard about different opinions?

Your post missed a yo mama is so fat joke and it would have been perfect.

 

[BadBurger]

I have to agree with the dialogue. It wasnt Tolkien and just felt off. Other then that I like to show so far and the woke cancer seems to be reigned in. Sounds, effects and the whole cinematography is level higher then most of the movies these days. Introduction of harfoots is handled well enough to have their place in the show. I would love the main harfoot have some bloodline to Pippin. I mean the curiosity of her fits the bill. Glimpse of tree shepherds gives hope we see them too in the series. Galadriel is fine as a warrior and her backstory to revenge her brothers death will work enough for me. Its not deep but whatever atleast its not a feminist power trip over patriarchy. Show sits well into the Jacksons movies from to the looks of it.

I will take these two episodes as an introduction and hope the show finds it heart. So far there isnt a hook other then that its based on Tolkien.

Spoiler: Sauron?

The bastard kid of elf and huuman with the sword seems to have enough elven blood to envoke the magic out of it. Is this saurons sword?

Her last name is Brandyfoot, possible predecessor to Brandybuck. Merry was friend to Pippin, cousin of Frodo, who is cousin to Bilbo, who is the link to the hobbits for Gandalf.

So for now, in my head canon, she's an ancestor of both Brandybuck and Took.

I think if this show ends with the Harfoot settling near what will become the Old Forest it will be all but settled.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Jesus dude never heard of different opinions?

If people don't like the show then that's cool. I don't get people who just want to be angry and post shit online. Move on with your life and find something you enjoy ... if you can.

 

[GymWolf]

If people don't like the show then that's cool. I don't get people who just want to be angry and post shit online. Move on with your life and find something you enjoy ... if you can.

But this is a discussing board not a pat in the back board...

 

[Kev Kev]

Jesus dude never heard about different opinions?

Your post missed a yo mama is so fat joke and it would have been perfect.

They went past opinions and on to trolling many pages ago ITT. Perhaps if their opinions were intelligible and nuanced and not condensed hyperbole then I could agree with you. But unfortunately, you're wrong here bud.

 

[nightmare-slain]

But this is a discussing board not a pat in the back board...

I know it is. So they should discuss it. If someone wants to come in here and say why they didn't like it then fine that's great.

 

[Kenpachii]

Some god dam good trailer dam, love the soundtrack.

 

[Bragr]

so they are grasping for any straw they can like dialogue or choreography. It's really quite sad. Just pathetic losers who are internet only type of people, spewing nonsense while the rest of the real world is enjoying a pretty damn cool TV show.

I think it's the opposite, the show is not terrible, but to truly enjoy it, you have to be a Marvel fan or Call of Duty player, it's not for Tolkien fans or people who enjoy TV. It's for people who can't pick up on clues, or people who don't notice cliches or sarcasm. People who enjoy anything they can find with explosions. The sort of people who never cut their lawn because it's just grass either way.

The show is made for people who you can feed hamburgers, steak, and eggs, and they don't notice the difference.

Nothing wrong with that, but you really really have to be a dofus to overlook the weird parts of this show. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

 

[AJUMP23]

What's even weirder is that the Celebrimbor dude looks exactly like an older version of this guy...

When I saw them both on screen I thought they were related.

 

[AJUMP23]

But this is a discussing board not a pat in the back board...

Did you hear about my istari prediction?

 

[IDKFA]

It was glorious. Honestly surpassed my expectations, I'm loving the show so far. Can't wait for more.

And the hate boner crowd are either trolling, or they've convinced themselves they are going to hate it no matter what, so they are grasping for any straw they can like dialogue or choreography. It's really quite sad. Just pathetic losers who are internet only type of people, spewing nonsense while the rest of the real world is enjoying a pretty damn cool TV show.

I tried it. Didn't like it. It's not for me.

I'm sorry that not everyone is loving it as much as you. Hope you can get over it soon.

 

[BadBurger]

It was glorious. Honestly surpassed my expectations, I'm loving the show so far. Can't wait for more.

And the hate boner crowd are either trolling, or they've convinced themselves they are going to hate it no matter what, so they are grasping for any straw they can like dialogue or choreography. It's really quite sad. Just pathetic losers who are internet only type of people, spewing nonsense while the rest of the real world is enjoying a pretty damn cool TV show.

As a huge book nerd I was ready to dislike this, but I have to admit it's good. I have some issues with what I see are slight mischaracterizations of a few major characters, but they're not exactly breaking the lore in those cases. I think the marketing just made it seem like they were going down that path. Furthermore they're placing a lot of bread crumbs for book readers and people who may not have read the books but are sharp enough to be able to notice the links between this and the movies - despite them occurring thousands of years apart.

That said, I don't want to malign anyone who isn't enjoying this. Sometimes people don't like things I do, whatever. But it's hard not to at least find a bit of fun with them when their criticisms overwhelmingly scream "I am too stupid to enjoy anything that isn't the typical pablum - I mean my God how dare they speak with a community college level vocabulary! That's practically Shakespeare! Which is stupid because I never read it!".

etc

 

[EviLore]

I’m at the part where Galadriel lectures soft, foppish Elrond on what she has seen as a battle-hardened warrior princess. Elrond tells her to get into elf-therapy because she’s using her quest as a way to run from her trauma.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Did you hear about my istari prediction?

We've all heard of your istari prediction

 

[ManaByte]

I liked the first 2 episodes, if anything, it's way better than The Witcher show.

The Witcher show is just a 90s Hercules/Xena show with HBO violence and nudity.

 

[Konnor]

I think it's the opposite, the show is not terrible, but to truly enjoy it, you have to be a Marvel fan or Call of Duty player, it's not for Tolkien fans or people who enjoy TV. It's for people who can't pick up on clues, or people who don't notice cliches or sarcasm. People who enjoy anything they can find with explosions. The sort of people who never cut their lawn because it's just grass either way.

The show is made for people who you can feed hamburgers, steak, and eggs, and they don't notice the difference.

Nothing wrong with that, but you really really have to be a dofus to overlook the weird parts of this show. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

This comparison is offensive to COVID victims, I had it a while ago and all food tasted like metal to me but I'm certain I still had better taste than Marvel fans.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The Witcher show is just a 90s Hercules/Xena show with HBO violence and nudity.

Not having read the Witcher books I enjoy the lore of the show a ton. I feel like I have an extreme disconnect from modern fantasy fans. I want creativity, cool lore, and good characters in my fantasy. Exactly the opposite of HoTD (which is ok but I like it far less than Witcher because it is not nearly as creative). I fail to give a single fuck yet in HotD about who wins the throne and I'm kind of over the TUNE IN NEXT WEEK AND FIND OUT tv-style writing of GRRM.

 

[Richard Packer]

Your post missed a yo mama is so fat joke and it would have been perfect.

Everyone knows how fat yo mama is though.

 

[GymWolf]

Everyone knows how fat yo mama is though.

Poor woman is like 55 kg with all the clothes on

 

[BlueAlpaca]

I think it's the opposite, the show is not terrible, but to truly enjoy it, you have to be a Marvel fan or Call of Duty player, it's not for Tolkien fans or people who enjoy TV. It's for people who can't pick up on clues, or people who don't notice cliches or sarcasm. People who enjoy anything they can find with explosions. The sort of people who never cut their lawn because it's just grass either way.

The show is made for people who you can feed hamburgers, steak, and eggs, and they don't notice the difference.

Nothing wrong with that, but you really really have to be a dofus to overlook the weird parts of this show. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

 

[GymWolf]

Did you hear about my istari prediction?

dafuq is an istari?

 

[SirKicksalot]

Not having read the Witcher books I enjoy the lore of the show a ton. I feel like I have an extreme disconnect from modern fantasy fans. I want creativity, cool lore, and good characters in my fantasy. Exactly the opposite of HoTD (which is ok but I like it far less than Witcher because it is not nearly as creative). I fail to give a single fuck yet in HotD about who wins the throne and I'm kind of over the TUNE IN NEXT WEEK AND FIND OUT tv-style writing of GRRM.

The Witcher books started as edgy retellings of classic fairytales and folklore. The later novels are reminiscent of Sienkiewicz, but fantasy. He later wrote historical novels in the style of Sienkiewicz.
Sienkiewicz and GRRM are polar opposites. One is friendly, fast-paced, exciting and colourful, the other one tied himself into a knot 15 years ago.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Not having read the Witcher books I enjoy the lore of the show a ton. I feel like I have an extreme disconnect from modern fantasy fans. I want creativity, cool lore, and good characters in my fantasy. Exactly the opposite of HoTD (which is ok but I like it far less than Witcher because it is not nearly as creative). I fail to give a single fuck yet in HotD about who wins the throne and I'm kind of over the TUNE IN NEXT WEEK AND FIND OUT tv-style writing of GRRM.

Now imagine Witcher books were written 30 years ago, much before GoT.
Also, first paragraph from the first book is a sex scene, just saying. Sapkowski knew how to write.

 

[lefty1117]

Theory is he’s one of the Istari. Some thinking he could be Eönwë.

I was thinking maybe Radagast, but they aren't supposed to appear until the Third Age. I know Amazon is taking some liberties but that seems like too much of a stretch...

 

[Artoris]

I was thinking maybe Radagast, but they aren't supposed to appear until the Third Age. I know Amazon is taking some liberties but that seems like too much of a stretch...

I also thought Radagast because of the way he handled the fireflies

 

[lefty1117]

I do like the show and am looking forward to more. I don't think the hobbits appeared until the Third Age from Tolkien's writings, IIRC, though he did allude that they could have been around a lot longer and nobody noticed. So I guess if Amazon is going to bring the Hobbits 1000 years earlier into the story, then they might also bring the Istari in sooner too. At first when he was yelling and causing all that havoc, I thought of Saruman (his voice being one of his main powers) but then I remembered Saruman has black hair in his youth.

I like Galadriel, I don't think her characterization is that far off at all, in fact in the Silmarillion he references her as someone who contended with the males, who was eager to go to middle-earth and rule her own realm. It's entirely feasible to me that she would go through a warrior princess phase. You're talking thousands of years of character development. Who among us is the same at 50 years old as we were at 17? This show may be the journey for her from aggressive vendetta elf to seasoned wise powerful elf queen. In fact I think in the "Letters" that Tolkien wrote and his son published, later in his life he was further developing her background, filling in the holes and making her more important and aggressive during the earlier ages.

Finally, the only thing that is bugging me so far (besides who meteor man is) is that ... none of the male elves have sideburns. I can't unsee it!!

 

[Hari Seldon]

The Witcher books started as edgy retellings of classic fairytales and folklore. The later novels are reminiscent of Sienkiewicz, but fantasy. He later wrote historical novels in the style of Sienkiewicz.
Sienkiewicz and GRRM are polar opposites. One is friendly, fast-paced, exciting and colourful, the other one tied himself into a knot 15 years ago.

I think I'm going to take a deep dive into the Witcher books soon. The Law of Surprise alone is like my favorite thing in fiction ever haha.

 

[BadBurger]

I also thought Radagast because of the way he handled the fireflies

While I think it's Gandalf by means of misdirection, there's a possibility it's Curumo / Saruman because he arrived alone in Arda. On one hand that would explain the evil bent, like the flames about him not being hot. But at the same time that seems a bit too on the nose.

Saruman also hates hobbits and is a prick. So he could dislike them because they helped him during a time of weakness.

Thinking more on it however, Saruman wasn't bad at first. Prideful and jealous sure, but he didn't land in Arda an asshole.

Really looking forward to future episodes.

 

[nightmare-slain]

I do like the show and am looking forward to more. I don't think the hobbits appeared until the Third Age from Tolkien's writings, IIRC, though he did allude that they could have been around a lot longer and nobody noticed. So I guess if Amazon is going to bring the Hobbits 1000 years earlier into the story, then they might also bring the Istari in sooner too. At first when he was yelling and causing all that havoc, I thought of Saruman (his voice being one of his main powers) but then I remembered Saruman has black hair in his youth.

I like Galadriel, I don't think her characterization is that far off at all, in fact in the Silmarillion he references her as someone who contended with the males, who was eager to go to middle-earth and rule her own realm. It's entirely feasible to me that she would go through a warrior princess phase. You're talking thousands of years of character development. Who among us is the same at 50 years old as we were at 17? This show may be the journey for her from aggressive vendetta elf to seasoned wise powerful elf queen. In fact I think in the "Letters" that Tolkien wrote and his son published, later in his life he was further developing her background, filling in the holes and making her more important and aggressive during the earlier ages.

Finally, the only thing that is bugging me so far (besides who meteor man is) is that ... none of the male elves have sideburns. I can't unsee it!!

Hobbits are considered men or closely related so they definitely existed well before the third age. In "recorded" history they seem to appear around the third age but they are quite mysterious and secluded. It's not too crazy that they were around in the 2nd or 1st age.