TonyK
Member
Exactly my thoughts. But I will continue watching it because it's visually amazing for a TV Show.
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I find this is a common issue with the "strong woman" archetype. It just DOESN'T WORK to write female characters just like male ones because of how they are cast. Throw any number of grizzled male actors into the EXACT SAME ROLE and it changes quite a bit. But imagine Tom Holland trying to pull it off....nope. The Galadriel actress is just too young looking for a role written like this and it's very hard for hollywood to cast women that can do this type of thing and still hit their other market targets for putting a pretty face on the show.
Give me early 90's Jodie Foster fresh from Silence of the Lambs though....now we are talking!
OsirisBlack
Banned
I am finding it difficult to make it through the first episode. The first two minutes (literally) are everything wrong with modern cinema. The tone it sets is just …. Off. So Galadriel is awesome and can create magical paper boats and all of the male elves are bullies and lack intelligence …. Because? Great start. Being fair the music and cinematography is god tier. Unfortunately the main character is a bit of a miss. I haven’t even made it to the parts the rest of the internet was going crazy about, I keep falling asleep on the very first episode. I have seen the ice climbing scene where the hero leaves everyone else to fend for themselves. Or in the blizzard where she starts to leave everyone to …. Fend for themselves. Or when she single handed kills the ice orc while everyone else just kind of stands their or dies because …. She’s the only one that can fight. It’s odd I’ve got a commission writing a story about a group of strong women in a very similar setting and yes the women are strong but that doesn’t automatically make the men weak or incompetent. I’d share it here but I think that’s against the rules. I’m going to force myself through the second and third episodes tonight. Sorry for the wall of text.
Trunx81
Member
Isildur suddenly has a sister! Congrats, Elendil.
Episode 3 was on the same level as the second episode, although everything felt a bit “smaller” in scale.
Galadriels riding face is the stuff of nightmares. But her chemistry with Elendil is good.
Liked Isildurs actor.
We all know where the story is heading, but I’ll keep watching.
Episode 3 was on the same level as the second episode, although everything felt a bit “smaller” in scale.
Galadriels riding face is the stuff of nightmares. But her chemistry with Elendil is good.
Liked Isildurs actor.
We all know where the story is heading, but I’ll keep watching.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They didn't leave them behind... They died or were killed... It's like you didn't listen to or read (captions) what Sadoc said.
Toytown Assassin
Member
they sure as hell left the guy with the broken leg and his family behind. Not one of the cunts helped that family and loads of em were just strolling along not pushing a wagon.
Some were killed. That was clear, others were a big question with no clear answer.
Additionally, the way they wrote the dialogue of Nori's father, they made it sound like if he cannot keep up - not die - keep up, they'll be left behind.
If the writers intent is that this being left behind stuff is meant to be people actually dying, and not just leave strugglers behind, then the writers failed at their jobs. It is poor writing. Unclear writing. Confusing writing. That what the hobbits do is even up for debate at this point, is proof the writing is poor.
Also, Nori's family did end up getting left behind just because their cart got stuck in the mud, so there. Hobbits are horrible people in this show.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Exactly. Like settlers with their own code of conduct, including remembrance for the dead, that has helped them prepare and survive in a hostile world. A code that was plainly shown in the storyline to need revision.
Bragr
Banned
I thought the third episode was worse than the first two, not bad, but it needs to feature more Durin and Elrond, as they pull off their roles better than Galadriel, which is just such an odd character to follow.
+ Insane views of the human city, vast vistas, tons of details, very impressive.
+ Setting up the orc invading storyline.
+ I thought the father of Isildur was great and lent some gravitas to some scenes.
+ I thought the queen of the city was great.
- Those action scenes with the elf and the orcs, again, with incessant and obvious wire work, he was flying around like superman.
- Galadriel came off as immature, like how she started to argue with the queen for no reason and constantly threw tantrums. I thought she was supposed to be wise and considerate.
- Again, as everyone says, the show needs a clear story other than "it's gonna happen later". They are doing 5-6 stories at once where we are expected to wait and wait until something big happens.
- Some of the costumes look too clean in the human city, it has that theatre look to it.
- The man that Galadriel runs around with, he's not really working for me. Don't really care.
+ Insane views of the human city, vast vistas, tons of details, very impressive.
+ Setting up the orc invading storyline.
+ I thought the father of Isildur was great and lent some gravitas to some scenes.
+ I thought the queen of the city was great.
- Those action scenes with the elf and the orcs, again, with incessant and obvious wire work, he was flying around like superman.
- Galadriel came off as immature, like how she started to argue with the queen for no reason and constantly threw tantrums. I thought she was supposed to be wise and considerate.
- Again, as everyone says, the show needs a clear story other than "it's gonna happen later". They are doing 5-6 stories at once where we are expected to wait and wait until something big happens.
- Some of the costumes look too clean in the human city, it has that theatre look to it.
- The man that Galadriel runs around with, he's not really working for me. Don't really care.
Bragr
Banned
But why not just put the one guy on a wagon and bring him along?
RAÏSanÏa
Member
You can't figure it out yourself?
Elysion
Banned
Well, there are certainly some hints that point to him possibly being Sauron. There’s his interest in forging things, and his claim that he’s known by different names to different people. But that’s only from the recent episode; people have been saying he’s Sauron from the very beginning. I can only assume that there were some leaks at some point that I have missed, otherwise I don’t see how so many people could immediately come to that conclusion.
That’s more terrifying than her evil face in Fellowship of the Ring lol.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
I think 3rd was better then first two episodes. Numenor looked great and i think i liked the sets better then the sets in the elven cities.
I like Elendil , he actually seems like he's got some depth might be best actor in this so far. Halbrand seems obviously evil but getting more interesting, his accent in the cell sounded really good for a moment.
Galadriel continues to drag the show down her portrayal and the characterization/dialog sucks.. so much of the writing feels contrived and obvious.. really dislike the elves overall in this so far. I'd like them in Witcher or a Dnd Show.but they don't feel like Tolkien Elves.
HoboHobbits just are dumb overall so disappointing in how they are portraying them in design and story,the whole gypsy train is dumb.
Orc/Goblins in the foreground look great , when they're background they just look human with bone masks.. but overall good evil minions.
I can't for the life of me imagine how any Elves in towers missed that swath of carnage being cut thru the southlands by that trench orcs.
But perhaps Legolas had supermagic eyes, and tracking the kidnapped hobbits and their Orc Captors well beyond human visible range wasn't normal for all Elves
Here... toxic smoke plumes for miles,..every tree around the trench cutdown.. the cover was the worst looking camo ever.. seriously its like being snuck up on by a road crew paving your street.
Galadriel Slowmo close up she has one of the fakest smiles I've ever seen..
and the burning of the pages in the fire was particularly poorly done..it was like 80's sitcom lean into the fire bad.. no excuses looked cheap.
I like Elendil , he actually seems like he's got some depth might be best actor in this so far. Halbrand seems obviously evil but getting more interesting, his accent in the cell sounded really good for a moment.
Galadriel continues to drag the show down her portrayal and the characterization/dialog sucks.. so much of the writing feels contrived and obvious.. really dislike the elves overall in this so far. I'd like them in Witcher or a Dnd Show.but they don't feel like Tolkien Elves.
HoboHobbits just are dumb overall so disappointing in how they are portraying them in design and story,the whole gypsy train is dumb.
Orc/Goblins in the foreground look great , when they're background they just look human with bone masks.. but overall good evil minions.
I can't for the life of me imagine how any Elves in towers missed that swath of carnage being cut thru the southlands by that trench orcs.
But perhaps Legolas had supermagic eyes, and tracking the kidnapped hobbits and their Orc Captors well beyond human visible range wasn't normal for all Elves
Here... toxic smoke plumes for miles,..every tree around the trench cutdown.. the cover was the worst looking camo ever.. seriously its like being snuck up on by a road crew paving your street.
Galadriel Slowmo close up she has one of the fakest smiles I've ever seen..
and the burning of the pages in the fire was particularly poorly done..it was like 80's sitcom lean into the fire bad.. no excuses looked cheap.
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
Like implied in the prologue, when following lights, one guides people to sink by focusing on the dark.
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Bragr
Banned
No? they had plenty of people to pull the carts.
Toytown Assassin
Member
Im assuming it was because the writers wanted the 'wizard' to help so he can become friends. So in order to make that work they need to make the rest of the hobbits look like horrible gits who give no fucks.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
How would you rate the show so far?
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Cultural reasons founded on practical considerations over generations at the same level of development without a change in circumstance to encourage changes? Might have to get that book from Sadoc or ask a Harfoot.
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
4.25/5 Very strong.
Bragr
Banned
So they turn into murderous psychopaths who let their own kind die horribly alone with no one to help them?
No, the real answer is that they needed a reason for Nori to feel disconnected from the tribe and form bonds with the comet guy and they couldn't come up with anything reasonable.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
So, Episode 3:
- So many callbacks to Jackson’s Lord of the Rings. “I’ll do it” by Frodo being mimicked by Arondir, Bilbo’s birthday being mimicked by the hobo-its’ circle where they remember the people they abandoned.
- Forgettable music.
- Numenor looks like an actual set which is good but I guess they ran out of money for the halls of lore.
- Some sitcom/teenage drama shit in this show like Isildur’s friends and Gandalf burning the paper and fumbling around like an idiot.
- So many questions, no answers. Like who is Adar? Who is Halbrand? Who is the stranger? (we know who he is but it is being positioned as a mystery). What is the prophecy? What did the dwarves find?
- That sigil being a map of the southlands is hilarious writing. When they found it in the first episode, it was definitely not part of a map plus it was carved on Finrod’s body as well.
- The harfoots abandoning the ones who trail behind makes no sense. They clearly could have helped Nori’s family.
- So all the major groups’ stories are driven by female characters - Galadriel for the elves, Nori for the hobo-its, Tar-Miriel for the Numenorians.
- Speaking of Nori - so brave and adventurous. She couldn’t have been a typical harfoot, no she’s the exception.
- So many callbacks to Jackson’s Lord of the Rings. “I’ll do it” by Frodo being mimicked by Arondir, Bilbo’s birthday being mimicked by the hobo-its’ circle where they remember the people they abandoned.
- Forgettable music.
- Numenor looks like an actual set which is good but I guess they ran out of money for the halls of lore.
- Some sitcom/teenage drama shit in this show like Isildur’s friends and Gandalf burning the paper and fumbling around like an idiot.
- So many questions, no answers. Like who is Adar? Who is Halbrand? Who is the stranger? (we know who he is but it is being positioned as a mystery). What is the prophecy? What did the dwarves find?
- That sigil being a map of the southlands is hilarious writing. When they found it in the first episode, it was definitely not part of a map plus it was carved on Finrod’s body as well.
- The harfoots abandoning the ones who trail behind makes no sense. They clearly could have helped Nori’s family.
- So all the major groups’ stories are driven by female characters - Galadriel for the elves, Nori for the hobo-its, Tar-Miriel for the Numenorians.
- Speaking of Nori - so brave and adventurous. She couldn’t have been a typical harfoot, no she’s the exception.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Murderous psychopaths sounds hysterical. Don't read Grimm Tales.
SirKicksalot
Member
If you have any creative aspirations, watching (and generally consuming) bad stuff is good because you learn what to avoid in your own work. Otherwise you might come up with bad ideas and never figure out they're not functioning.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
What I’m seeing a lot is people who like the show shitting on other people’s post more rather than saying what they like about the show. And we know - the most expensive TV series of all time looks good.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Then you've got selective reading problems.
PaddyOCanager
Member
Sadoc mocked someone who was literally killed by bees.....I mean, I'm down for them having a dark side but it just felt weird as hell lol.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
These creatures were considered dangerous by humans at their introduction.
Ep3 wasn't bad, the harfoots sticking dogmatically to their book without true understanding of the reasons why is an interesting statement.
I wish they had more of a reason to have to leave folks behind, like a stretch of exposed ground or little water, something to add pressure to what is otherwise a cruel choice for such a small band. The other losses seemed like accidents or attacks, not "they slow so we cut them loose".
Exile as their major punishment rings true though.
Galadriel continues to be the weakest part. I want to ditch her for Earwin or whatever Isildur sisters name is, GOTDAMN that girl can fill a dress
I don't get how a group of elves is sucker for like 6 orcs though, seems like they could tajen them all pretty easy. That trench bit is dodgy as well.
The INSANE production values carry this show.
I wish they had more of a reason to have to leave folks behind, like a stretch of exposed ground or little water, something to add pressure to what is otherwise a cruel choice for such a small band. The other losses seemed like accidents or attacks, not "they slow so we cut them loose".
Exile as their major punishment rings true though.
Galadriel continues to be the weakest part. I want to ditch her for Earwin or whatever Isildur sisters name is, GOTDAMN that girl can fill a dress
I don't get how a group of elves is sucker for like 6 orcs though, seems like they could tajen them all pretty easy. That trench bit is dodgy as well.
The INSANE production values carry this show.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I thought she had bigger teeth than the horse.I honestly turned away when this came on. Freddy Kruger on a horse.
pramod
Banned
Ehh this episode was better in some ways and worse in others. Enjoyed the violent Orc scenes a lot.
The new characters continue to be hit and miss...Elendil is great but that Queen is just i dunno...is she just supposed to be unlikeable? If so they did a great job with her.
But there continues to be this problem of throwing new characters at us nonstop and expecting us to start caring about them right away. Its getting exhausting.
And Galadriel is starting to grate on my nerves a bit. Its like shes so perfect its really hard to care about her at all. Shes like an invincible plot device thats just there to carry the story along.
The new characters continue to be hit and miss...Elendil is great but that Queen is just i dunno...is she just supposed to be unlikeable? If so they did a great job with her.
But there continues to be this problem of throwing new characters at us nonstop and expecting us to start caring about them right away. Its getting exhausting.
And Galadriel is starting to grate on my nerves a bit. Its like shes so perfect its really hard to care about her at all. Shes like an invincible plot device thats just there to carry the story along.
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Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Not much more to add but I thought the episode was alright.
The Numenoreans are supposed to be this different breed of men, far sighted, stronger, more long lived, wiser… the mightiest among the Edain. Halbrand able to wreck four of them without breaking a sweat … was disappointing. It would have made more sense if he got the shit kicked out of him, which would make his later vengeance, if he is indeed the Witch King to be, upon them a bit more nuanced and have more weight.
What we saw of the Numenoreans was just more of the same, normal people in fancier clothing. Their decline only began later which I won’t spoil. Numenor was not goddamn anti-elf. When the decline started, there were a fairly large portion of Numenoreans that still honoured the Valar, and valued their friendship with the Eldar. And someone mentioned that the producers must have runout of money when it came to the Hall of Lore set … well they were spot on.
Second, and again, Galadriel is suppose to be wise and brimming with easy power on tap. She is below Feanor in might but surpasses him in wisdom. She lived in Valinor and was in the presence of the Ainur, and was mentored by the greatest of the Eldar and by Melian the Maiar herself. But what we get here again, is this hot-headed tactless girl making questionable choices, and saying silly things. I really like Morfydd, but the writers really let her character down, because she could be much much more than this 2D portrayal we see onscreen.
And some of the dialogue: ‘The sea is always right!’ WTF.
The warg looked liked a cross between a pug and a wolf… not sure if that’s what they were going for but it looked kinda off, in a jank way. The elves should have wrecked those orcs, but again the power levels and abilities are just all over the place and so inconsistent.
As for the confusion a few posts back regarding the Harfoot’s Oregon Trail … they are definitely not waiting for stragglers. To ensure their continued survival, in a world where blinking at wrong time can kill you and everyone else, the needs of the many, outweighs the needs of the few, or the one. I actually appreciated the diminutive Harfoot’s practical philosophy in such a brutal world.
Casual viewer score: 8/10
Tolkien nerd bastard score: 6/10
The Numenoreans are supposed to be this different breed of men, far sighted, stronger, more long lived, wiser… the mightiest among the Edain. Halbrand able to wreck four of them without breaking a sweat … was disappointing. It would have made more sense if he got the shit kicked out of him, which would make his later vengeance, if he is indeed the Witch King to be, upon them a bit more nuanced and have more weight.
What we saw of the Numenoreans was just more of the same, normal people in fancier clothing. Their decline only began later which I won’t spoil. Numenor was not goddamn anti-elf. When the decline started, there were a fairly large portion of Numenoreans that still honoured the Valar, and valued their friendship with the Eldar. And someone mentioned that the producers must have runout of money when it came to the Hall of Lore set … well they were spot on.
Second, and again, Galadriel is suppose to be wise and brimming with easy power on tap. She is below Feanor in might but surpasses him in wisdom. She lived in Valinor and was in the presence of the Ainur, and was mentored by the greatest of the Eldar and by Melian the Maiar herself. But what we get here again, is this hot-headed tactless girl making questionable choices, and saying silly things. I really like Morfydd, but the writers really let her character down, because she could be much much more than this 2D portrayal we see onscreen.
And some of the dialogue: ‘The sea is always right!’ WTF.
The warg looked liked a cross between a pug and a wolf… not sure if that’s what they were going for but it looked kinda off, in a jank way. The elves should have wrecked those orcs, but again the power levels and abilities are just all over the place and so inconsistent.
As for the confusion a few posts back regarding the Harfoot’s Oregon Trail … they are definitely not waiting for stragglers. To ensure their continued survival, in a world where blinking at wrong time can kill you and everyone else, the needs of the many, outweighs the needs of the few, or the one. I actually appreciated the diminutive Harfoot’s practical philosophy in such a brutal world.
Casual viewer score: 8/10
Tolkien nerd bastard score: 6/10
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pramod
Banned
Their culture makes no sense though. How do you be this super close knit society but with the underlying philosophy of "every harfoot for himself"?
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Because from past experiences perhaps sticking together meant dying together during such an arduous crossing. Or they’re just morons, and haven’t realised the power of being united and working together to overcome adversity
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Ep3 wasn't bad, the harfoots sticking dogmatically to their book without true understanding of the reasons why is an interesting statement.
I wish they had more of a reason to have to leave folks behind, like a stretch of exposed ground or little water, something to add pressure to what is otherwise a cruel choice for such a small band. The other losses seemed like accidents or attacks, not "they slow so we cut them loose".
Exile as their major punishment rings true though.
Galadriel continues to be the weakest part. I want to ditch her for Earwin or whatever Isildur sisters name is, GOTDAMN that girl can fill a dress
I don't get how a group of elves is sucker for like 6 orcs though, seems like they could tajen them all pretty easy. That trench bit is dodgy as well.
The INSANE production values carry this show.
Orcs are deformed and twisted former elves. They both have comparable strength.
Agree on almost all your other points!
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
Nope. At this point in the lore, Numenor was most definitely anti-elf. Everything they said about Numenor cutting off contact and refusing elves on their land is straight from the text. Galadriels introduction to Numenor is basically cut/paste from Appendix A.
It started during the reign of Tar-Minastir, who coveted the immortality of the elves. Each generation relations got worse. During the reign of Ar Gilmilzor, elves were fully banned. Those of the Faithful were forced to relocate to the western part of the country and were kept under strict surveillance
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
This post reminded of the godawful phrase that the Numenoreans kept saying “the sea is always right”. First, not only is it really dumb sounding but it screams to me that the writers thought that they were writing for GoT where the different clans have their own saying like “what is dead may never die”.
About the harfoots, the theory behind them not being able to wait for stragglers as it could be the difference between life and death for the commune (this is the word the producers used) is nice. What is shown in the show makes no sense though. First, they use plenty of their time to dwaddle around in the first 2.5 episodes. It’s hard to say but there’s at least several days worth of them doing nothing before they leave. There are also several harfoots who could have helped when the caravan gets started since you see them walking leisurely.
And what was the purpose of them inventing a sister for Isildur. That college admission scene felt straight out of a teenage movie - probably the exact same scene is in “he’s all that”.
Regarding the trench that the elves were building, wouldn’t the orcs really have built a tunnel instead of a trench?
And another mystery - what’s on the western shores of Numenor? Why doesn’t Elendil want Isildur to go there?
You telling me an ELF could get killed by a human woman and her kid like that orc in the house?
NOTHING so far shows an orc with combat parity to an elf. They do nothing with whipping chains, leaping through the air, or any of it.
Since there aren't apparently, any "non-combatant' elves, and those 3-4 were also from his combat scout squad (I think, right?) seems like they ought to be pretty highly trained and more than a match for some scrub orcs. Just saying.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Were they openly hostile though at this point? Genuine question because I can't remember. I always thought that the Numenoreans became openly hostile
once Sauron was captured and brought to the island.
Yeah I've been banging on about this (okay a fair few of us) over many pages now
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I think Arondir and the other elves were tired, hungry and thirsty. That's why they didn't win against those orcs.
At least that's what makes the most sense to me judging by how they acted.
I just love that conveniently placed map...not showing Nunemor mind you but a seeming random stretch of the southlands, at JUST THE RIGHT SCALE for her sauron symbol to line up perfectly...that's some Skywalker crashed death star dagger shit right there
As a guide to other orcs on where to go it sorta makes sense...but then why carve it on Feanors body? And Galadriel had only ever seen it on his body and in that castle, you'd think if it were a summoning guide they would have found it lots of places but just couldn't figure it out.
Eh, niggling points, much like Gandalf finding a passing reference to "my precious" in an account 2000 years old and piecing it together I suppose.
But wasn't that his commander? And the friend he had the first time we see him with bronwyn was the guy with the cut throat? They couldn't have been down there long.
If those were some other elves then I suppose you have as good an answer as we are likely to get.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
I just love that conveniently placed map...not showing Nunemor mind you but a seeming random stretch of the southlands, at JUST THE RIGHT SCALE for her sauron symbol to line up perfectly...that's some Skywalker crashed death star dagger shit right there
As a guide to other orcs on where to go it sorta makes sense...but then why carve it on Feanors body? And Galadriel had only ever seen it on his body and in that castle, you'd think if it were a summoning guide they would have found it lots of places but just couldn't figure it out.
Eh, niggling points, much like Gandalf finding a passing reference to "my precious" in an account 2000 years old and piecing it together I suppose.
The ‘precious’ clue didn’t feel so on the nose though. However you reminded me that Gandalf took his sweet ass time researching that ring. First the journey to Minas Tirith, then the research in the archives, and then the return journey to the Shire. Maybe he could have just gone to Elrond or Galadriel instead, and ask them about ring lore.
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
That’s not true at all. The original orcs were originally elves twisted by Morgoth but that does not mean that (i) the original orcs were still as when they were elves (ii) the latter orcs were as strong as the original orcs. Orcs are described as shortish. I think a trained orc vs a trained human would result in a human’s victory.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
Were they openly hostile though at this point? Genuine question because I can't remember. I always thought that the Numenoreans became openly hostileonce Sauron was captured and brought to the island.
Yeah I've been banging on about this (okay a fair few of us) over many pages now
Openly hostile, yes. But not violent, yet.
Once Tar-Palentir, Miriel's father, dies there is a civil war between The Kings Men and The Faithful. This results in Pharazon forcing Miriel to marry him and sieze the thrown. After that, Pharazon sends his forces to Middle earth, where he captures Sauron. It gets worse there of course, but it was most definitely a hot situation and it probably didnt take Sauron much work to finish turning the Numenoreans