Bragr
Banned
Why do you wanna see my painting? I can't point out a dumb cheap prop in the movie without having to overdo it myself?
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Ulysses 31
Member
Naw, you also need to be a pianist to point out false notes!
How do you feel about Galadriel's behaviour towards the people who saved her from ceetain death (her words, not mine)?
strange headache
Banned
Oh boy, here we go again, Amazon going into full damage control.
If you don't like The Rings of Power you're a racist.
Are there any examples of this racist harassment? I'm not on twitter so there's that, but I haven't seen any racism whatsoever.
Hardensoul
Member
No surprised. Seems there are same template ready for these PR statements!
There were definitely some mocking statements about those early promo shots of the dwarf lady. Deservedly so, IMHO, as I don't this that was what ANYONE thought a she-dwarf would look like. The character is kinda fun though.
The black elf Ranger guy is, on the amazon website, supposedly a silvan elf, so not a close relative of Elrond, Galadriel, etc since silvian elves never crossed the seas. This COULD work, if other from his tribe resemble him but I don't think that is how they are playing it.
The harfoots, who can really say.
I don't think anyone is directly attacking the actors, more mocking the writers/producers. Same with House of the Dragon, really (though that show has good reviews thus doesn't need damage control like RoP, Batgirl, or other such shows.
Yeah, that's the thing. That's not racism. That's just criticism of the poor world building of the show runners.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
As someone wiser told me earlier today (fully agreed), paraphrased, “I was not sure why Numenoreans hated Elves so much at that point in history, but then Galadriel started speaking…”. She is more and more insufferable as time goes by. She is not meant to be a hasty angsty teen at this point, she is one of the older elves too…
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Ogbert
Gold Member
I'll admit to my prejudices.
There is not a single molecule in my body that objects to the diversity in casting. It's a fantasy world. It works.
But the feminist stuff is really, really fucking boring. I'm just sick to the back teeth of uppity broads acting like pricks in every TV show, and you're supposed to warm to them.
Galadriel is an arse, utterly lacking grace, which is the one quality she should have in droves.
There is not a single molecule in my body that objects to the diversity in casting. It's a fantasy world. It works.
But the feminist stuff is really, really fucking boring. I'm just sick to the back teeth of uppity broads acting like pricks in every TV show, and you're supposed to warm to them.
Galadriel is an arse, utterly lacking grace, which is the one quality she should have in droves.
Ogbert
Gold Member
Most importantly, it betrays a total lack of understanding about women.I find this is a common issue with the "strong woman" archetype. It just DOESN'T WORK to write female characters just like male ones because of how they are cast. Throw any number of grizzled male actors into the EXACT SAME ROLE and it changes quite a bit. But imagine Tom Holland trying to pull it off....nope. The Galadriel actress is just too young looking for a role written like this and it's very hard for hollywood to cast women that can do this type of thing and still hit their other market targets for putting a pretty face on the show.
Give me early 90's Jodie Foster fresh from Silence of the Lambs though....now we are talking!
It's very much the same with Naughty Dog and their idea of a 'strong' female character. It's a man with pigtails; violent and brutal. It doesn't work because firstly, no one buys it and secondly. it totally strips women of the qualities they do possess.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Top pic is my wife letting me know that her mother will be staying with us over the weekend, and bottom photo is her asking me what happened to all the ice cream.
The marketing was all over the place, and undermined the show - especially those cringe-ass interviews with the 'influencers'.
John_Ryder
Member
Maybe she's Sauron. Hence her behavior.I honestly turned away when this came on. Freddy Kruger on a horse.
Stuart360
Member
They are pretty intelligent realy arent they?. Completely turn any kind of negativity towards the show into racism, which in turn will shut down 99% of the negativity towards the show as no one wants to be classed as racist in this current loopy world.
They dont fight fair, but its an intelligent, and cuntish, responce.
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DeaconOfTheDank
Member
I'm honestly having a great time with the show so far. The one that bugs me is that Halbrand still hasn't taken a fucking shower since they landed in Numenor. Guy looks dirty as fuck
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NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
Halbrand is a miscast. Dude looks too much like Viggo Mortensen. Should have cast him as Isildur or Anarion.
I've been enjoying his character though. Interested in seeing where it is going
sol_bad
Member
Really enjoyed episode 3, probably my favourite so far. I'm still intrigued by the storylines that are happening but wish there was more Elrond and Durin.
Numenor looked absolutely beautiful and the music really escalated the reveal. Do we know if Galadriel has had any contact with humans over the last 1000 years? I know she is strong willed but maybe that's why she is so antagonistic towards the Numerians? Either way, I can understand her not wanting to be locked up when she knows shit could be hitting the fan soon.
Cynthia Addai-Robinson is beautiful as Miriel.
Does anyone know if Tolkien really wrote 2 "lost king" type stories in his writings? It feels like Halbrand will be retreading Aragorn's story.
And I don't care what any of you say, that slowmo horse riding scene was beautiful. So much texture and detail with Galadriel's dress and I have never seen a horse with blue eyes.
Not much happened with Nori and the mystery man though. Hope it kicks into gear next episode.
I was also surprised at how violent it got. The arm snap made me cringe. I'm not complaining though. Pretty darn cool action in general and the Warg looked great.
Numenor looked absolutely beautiful and the music really escalated the reveal. Do we know if Galadriel has had any contact with humans over the last 1000 years? I know she is strong willed but maybe that's why she is so antagonistic towards the Numerians? Either way, I can understand her not wanting to be locked up when she knows shit could be hitting the fan soon.
Cynthia Addai-Robinson is beautiful as Miriel.
Does anyone know if Tolkien really wrote 2 "lost king" type stories in his writings? It feels like Halbrand will be retreading Aragorn's story.
And I don't care what any of you say, that slowmo horse riding scene was beautiful. So much texture and detail with Galadriel's dress and I have never seen a horse with blue eyes.
Not much happened with Nori and the mystery man though. Hope it kicks into gear next episode.
I was also surprised at how violent it got. The arm snap made me cringe. I'm not complaining though. Pretty darn cool action in general and the Warg looked great.
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NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
I guess the closest is Thorin, but everyone knows he's the heir to Erebor, and displaced.
Tolkien didn't really concern himself too much with non-Numenorean men during 2nd age. He did write one story about that was about Numenorean colonization through the eyes of a lower man. But it wasn't a lost king type story. TBH, I think in the books the first Human Kingdom IS Numenor. Before thay they were just tribes of men that just served Elvish kings, or Morgoth.
Elysion
Banned
For me it’s the other way around. Having random black people living in quaint medieval villages is a total immersion breaker for me. It’s like seeing a knight with earbuds listening to his iPod lol; totally anachronistic. I don’t even care about the lore so much, but rather logic and consistency. For example, I would’ve honestly preferred it if all the dwarves were played by black actors, or all the Harfoots by middle-easterners or whatever. That wouldn’t be according to the lore of course, but at least it would be consistent. But all these different groups being melting-pots of various races is just ridiculous.
In comparison, House of the Dragon is a bit better in this regard, since the Velaryons being black can somewhat work since they’re only one family, and they have foreign roots (though it requires changing some family trees). But there are no random black peasants working the fields in Westeros; the continent is almost entirely populated by Westerosi, who are obviously supposed to be white.
As for the portrayal of female characters, that’s annoying too of course, but much less immersion-breaking for me, especially since not all the female characters in this show are as annoying as Galadriel, thankfully.
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sol_bad
Member
Well I hope that Amazon have a nice plot twist envisioned for Halbrand than. I'd rather they didn't retread similar ground.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
Same here. I'm hoping he becomes a ringwraith or something
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
TBH, there HAVE been racist things said about RoP because of the specific actors being cast. I remember seeing some ... Should have screenshot
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Yep, there are some fucked people out there. However the problem is having legitimate criticism lumped in with those arseholes.
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Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
He's probably the Witch King of Angmar. Galadriel should have used her far-sightedness and ended him right there in ep 3.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
There HAVE been non-white peoples in Europe in medieval times... When the Moors conquered most of Europe (Spain is a very obvious example with their myriad of mosques).
sol_bad
Member
I don't know why there are people that get offended by Amazon pointing out the racism if they aren't racist themselves. If you aren't a racist person, you shouldn't be offended that Amazon are pointing it out, you aren't racist so they aren't talking to you.
RareJordan
Member
I’m (half) black and I find the diversity in the show to be extremely distracting. Simply because it feels so… forced. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but it definitely feels unnatural, given the setting of the show. In addition to the perfect haircuts and overall cleanliness it makes the show feel way too modern.
The Peter Jackson movies are my favorite films of all time. I never once thought “I wish there was more diversity in these movies”.
And as others have mentioned, they won’t commit. It’s so lazy. Let’s just sprinkle some colored people here and there to check off some boxes.
With all that being said, the show is garbage either way. I watched all 3 episodes today and now I feel depressed. Now I’m watching the extended editions of the trilogy, to make me feel better.
Oh, and add me to the list that thinks Galadriel is one of the most unlikeable characters I’ve ever seen.
The Peter Jackson movies are my favorite films of all time. I never once thought “I wish there was more diversity in these movies”.
And as others have mentioned, they won’t commit. It’s so lazy. Let’s just sprinkle some colored people here and there to check off some boxes.
With all that being said, the show is garbage either way. I watched all 3 episodes today and now I feel depressed. Now I’m watching the extended editions of the trilogy, to make me feel better.
Oh, and add me to the list that thinks Galadriel is one of the most unlikeable characters I’ve ever seen.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Your take isn't unique amongst black or biracial folks as it isn't inherently racist. It's odd when one says it, though... I guess just because I usually see the opposite sentiment. I wouldn't have bat an eyelash if there were black/Asian/etc people in the original LOTR movies. It's fantasy... Not actual history. It's meant to be unrealistic.
On Galadriel... I think she is still so hurt over her brother's death and wants to avenge that she can't see left from right... Even though she's right that Sauron's returning. She wants to hurry back into the thick of it and cut his head off. She isn't the Cate Blanchette version yet. That's still thousands of years yet to come... AFTER Sauron's defeat. And the show is contracted for 5 seasons... We'll see her grow into the Cate version.
And it's cringe to say "colored people" ... Makes me feel like I'm back in the 50s and 60s... Which wasn't that long ago.
Fbh
Member
Episode 3 was ok too.
Numenor looked amazing and these white orcs look great too. The production values continue to be the best thing about this show
Biggest issue for me is still that none of the characters are particularly likeable or enjoyable. Galadriel in particular is extremely unlikeable.
The forced race diversity is dumb but not really the main issue with the show
Numenor looked amazing and these white orcs look great too. The production values continue to be the best thing about this show
Biggest issue for me is still that none of the characters are particularly likeable or enjoyable. Galadriel in particular is extremely unlikeable.
The forced race diversity is dumb but not really the main issue with the show
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Propaganda is most effective by embellishing a truth.
Konnor
Member
Can't these Hollywood retards understand they're digging their own graves? This absolutely pathetic victim mentality has never worked as a marketing tool, if anything it has made things worse for whatever trash Hollywood was trying to shill for. They must be really desperate to use the good ol' Ghostbusters tactic.
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Uuuh, they conquered Spain and Portugal, parts of Italy and Greece.
That is not even remotely close to being most of Europe.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
I...kind of agree. From the start the marketing pushed the diversity front and center instead of emphasizing the strengths of the show. It woke up the racists and forced the show into the culture war.
If they had just played up the stuff tolkien fans liked (the known characters, the beautiful scenery, adventure stuff) then i think there would have been a better reception. For me, I don't think the diversity is distracting at all in the show. But it was such a big part of their marketing efforts. It was a mistake.
Elves being pale and otherworldly has to do with their affiliation to the stars and moonlight. Black elves are kind of weird because elves are not men. Elves did not evolve they were awakened underneath the stars and spent their early years staring up at the night sky. The closest thing to black elves in the books are the elves who fell victim to Melkor's lies and evaded the good Ainur when they appeared. Those elves were taken underground and tortured and their descendants became the Orc races.
The races of middle earth are meant to be really different. I have less of an issue with race casting than I do with elves and dwarfs being anthropomorphized. The lack of differentiation takes some of the soul from the material.
nkarafo
Member
Yes, it works if you try to work it out in your head.
Question is, why would you have to do that? Instead of being immersed in the world you are watching, you try to justify something that only belongs to the real, current, world such as diversity politics. Isn't that distracting?
Now, if there was something for the show to earn from this, i would also understand. You lose some, you win some. Maybe there would be a big name black actor who would earn the show millions more viewers just because he is in it. That would be worth sacrificing the world building and lore a bit i guess. But there's nothing of the sort. The only reason the race swapping was done is for woke diversity politics alone which, for me, is not a good enough reason to make such regression in the show and isn't worth of wasting those brain cells to justify it in your head.
Thankfully, it's the only regression. Everything else seems fine so after i accepted that every time those velaryons show up it will take me out of the show and i can't do anything about it, i at least enjoyed the rest of it.
LOTR though... It's nothing but diversity and feminism politics. And some nice visuals. There's nothing to cling on.
TVexperto
Member
thats the biggest problem.... LOTR movies made me feel so many emotions...it was incredible. this is just so dull except the effects
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The Warg looked great? It is competing with Twilight’s wolves, not always winning. That is saying something…
Please ignore the Galadriel character and the plot but focus on the cinematography of the horse riding scene…
Ok, sorry but you could not sound more of a shill account if you tried.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Well said.
sol_bad
Member
I mentioned Galadriel in my post.......
She isn't the nicest person no, does that make her a poorly written character? No, not in my eyes.
I actually asked a question in my post, if she had interacted with mankind since the defeat of Morgoth. Knowing that mankind helped him, if she hasn't interacted with them for a long time it makes sense for her not to trust them or want to be near them.
Whether it's been 20 days or 2000 years since Morgoth, it won't matter to her. As pointed out by Elrond in episode 2, the 20 year gap since seeing Durin felt like a blink of the eye.
I also mentioned I'm not entirely happy with the lost king story and I mentioned that not much happened with the Nori story.
As for the Warg, the CGI, lighting and eye reflections all looked incredible and the design is far better than the one from the LOTR trilogy. If it looked crap to you, maybe don't watch shitty quality downloads on your phone.
I'm sorry if me not screaming at the tip of my lungs how shit this show is makes me a shill.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I truly sympathize with those book readers and film viewers who are trying to salvage Galadriel's adaptation here. I get it. It's tough for all of us to be watching this. I myself keep praying it gets better.
But being as real as possible: her depiction here is just dumb as shit. She - the Lady Galadriel mind you - threatened to open up Elendil's throat and then went on a slow motion horse ride with him. How very early 2000's throwaway movie heroine of her. Seriously - what in the fuck were the writers thinking?
This is just not Galadriel in the least and it's embarrassing.
That said I can roll with it knowing that they have to abide by their licensing and arrive at the same point we all know her to be. They have no choice but to guide her to that port.
But man. This is easily one of the worse adaptations of a beloved character I have ever witnessed.
But being as real as possible: her depiction here is just dumb as shit. She - the Lady Galadriel mind you - threatened to open up Elendil's throat and then went on a slow motion horse ride with him. How very early 2000's throwaway movie heroine of her. Seriously - what in the fuck were the writers thinking?
This is just not Galadriel in the least and it's embarrassing.
That said I can roll with it knowing that they have to abide by their licensing and arrive at the same point we all know her to be. They have no choice but to guide her to that port.
But man. This is easily one of the worse adaptations of a beloved character I have ever witnessed.
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Eh, watching on 4k HDR screen, that warg look ridiculous to me. Both me and my wife chuckled from it due to it looking so out of place an cartoony. Reminded me of one of the Lion King hyenas.
And if Galadriel holds distrust towards the numenorians, maybe the writers should have thought to communicate that instead of leaving it up to us to speculate?
I mean they just love to spell things out and have no subtlety elsewhere..
My main issue with her is something the show itself pointed out when Elendil compared her to his children.
She's 1000s of years old, but has no tact. No part of her brain tells her that making demands of people she does not know might not be the best way to get what she wants.
She's a buffoon.
sol_bad
Member
There is nothing that looks cartoony about the Warg, it's eyes are bulging and crazy looking, Chihuahuas eyes bulge out as well. Even the materials of the Warg look realistic, LOTRs Warg CGI looked bad even at release.
And again, if Galadriel spent thousands of years with her own kind and generally got what she wanted, her demands with the humans make sense.
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Eh, no. That warg, although well rendered and all that, looks like what you get if you take a cartoon character and render it to be lifelike. It is just pretty derpy looking, and comparing it to 20 year old cgi is pretty meaningless.
Hell, you could have fooled me into thinking this was the Lion King remake.
And again, regarding Galadriel, it is on the showrunners to communicate Galadriel's stance to towards the numenorians. They didn't. They just have her behave like a bull in a chinashop with no foundation for it whatsoever. It is, poor writing.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
That’s just you trying to excuse the bad writing since none of that was told or shown in the show.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Really struggled to keep my attention on the show while watching the third episode. Shit's just too boring.
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VN1X
Banned
They are literally using racism to sell t-shirts as well.
And like Gary from Nerdrotic said: it's literally a grift to make bank and deflect genuine criticisms under the guise of this nebulous banner of "racism" (which they constantly cry about but never actually highlight the perceived attack).
Also, if this was a serious issue surely 100% of proceeds would go towards a DEFINED charity and not just "selected later so fuck off". Kind of disgusting to say the least.
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