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The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Season 1

pramod

Banned
BTW I just felt the whole "will-she-won't-she-help-Galadriel" subplot with the Queen was so clumsily done, though. I don't know if the problem was the script, the directing, or the acting.
So you have the Queen seemingly very annoyed at Galadriel, but at the same time revealing to her the biggest secrets that no one else in the world knew about (the Palantir scene).
Then she turns around and refuses her again.
Then in the end what finally changes her mind is...blowing leaves? That was somehow more of a "sign" than seeing your kingdom swallowed by the sea?
It was just...weird.
 
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pramod

Banned
It's not that, it's that everyone would have seen that. There would be no surprise that she came back.

She must have sailed out of sight and snuck back in somehow because she was already out in the water when the leaves fell and the Queen changed her mind.
Or maybe she just jumped out of the boat herself and swam off....again. In fact I was half expecting to see it.
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
The philosphical parallels of faith with the nature of proof alongside the remnants of proof in the delicate presence of the Valar from the Tree and the effect that touch of ancient light has upon the faithful was well portrayed. This would seem to lead up to Numenor wanting another reward after the battle. Exchange a prisoner for immortality? Give another sign! Faith shaken. Listen to us!

The special effect for initiating the palantir vision with expanding inclusions was inspired. Sauron appears to already be shaping visions.

Halbrand and his horses. Quick to tell Al-Pharazon where Galadriel was going, maybe in exchange for his freedom offscreen and build rapport. Good understanding of human nature, foresight, not necessarily supernatural.
 
Also.......I just realized: Adar (the orc leader) wanted Arondir to deliver a message to the people at the tower. Shouldn't Arondir get safe passage to deliver his message?

It's weird to show that scene, then 10 minutes later orcs are firing volleys of arrows at him. I get that orcs don't have cellphones, but this is awkward storytelling.
 
What a take. That’s like saying that bribery only takes one form - money transaction.

A true critic would NEVER accept a trip paid for by the company making the product they are critiquing. At a bare minimum that s a major disclosure, and a major critic, one working for an independent News agency, would never accept it. That kind of thing is a straight up bribe.

My point exactly. However, trying to discuss this with him is like talking to a brick wall. Unlike the others rabidly defending this show, I don’t think he is doing it maliciously or out of spite. I genuinely think he just assumes the best and doesn’t understand the reality of the system.

200.gif
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
My point exactly. However, trying to discuss this with him is like talking to a brick wall. Unlike the others rabidly defending this show, I don’t think he is doing it maliciously or out of spite. I genuinely think he just assumes the best and doesn’t understand the reality of the system.

200.gif
What system?
 

Alex11

Member
Yeah, especially the end of this episode where the Numemoreans are assembling a fleet to sail to Middle Earth. It's not going to be THE fleet is it? (the massive one that captures Sauron)
Yeah, I don`t know anymore, but you could be right, it might be.
 

pramod

Banned
Yeah, I don`t know anymore, but you could be right, it might be.
Yeah I dunno, the reason I thought it might be THE fleet is because of that whole "recruiting" scene at the end.
Why else would you need to recruit ordinary Numenorean citizens to join? Doesn't Numenor already have soldiers that can escort the Queen?
Unless this some sort of huge mobilization and they need a huge amount of men?
Or, maybe it's just more bad writing and we shouldn't think too much into it.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
Yeah, I don`t know anymore, but you could be right, it might be.
It is going to be the one and that was one annoying thing of this episode - they do not know if Sauron is alive, where he is located, specific plight of people in Middle-Earth, but they are going anyway because YOLO.

Silmarillion framed it as a culmination of years if not decades of Sauron’s influence in Middle-Earth , where his actions could no longer be ignored.

Not a bad episode, cannot wait for all the people on Twitter posting how Numenor avoided it’s fate, HA.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
Yeah I dunno, the reason I thought it might be THE fleet is because of that whole "recruiting" scene at the end.
Why else would you need to recruit ordinary Numenorean citizens to join? Doesn't Numenor already have soldiers that can escort the Queen?
Unless this some sort of huge mobilization and they need a huge amount of men?
Or, maybe it's just more bad writing and we shouldn't think too much into it.

Maybe the logic is, and this is a stretch, that they want to leave soldiers to protect against the downfall they see coming, and send a force to middle earth. Volunteer force for expedition.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
How many seasons this is supposed to have because at this speed they are going to make it to the Hobbit in the first season.
5 seasons.

Thinking about how to end it though you could have Smaug take the lonely mountain and the dwarves driven from the mines. Along with the death of isildur. Maybe the last shot could be strider sitting in a tavern with his riders.
 
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Alex11

Member
Yeah I dunno, the reason I thought it might be THE fleet is because of that whole "recruiting" scene at the end.
Why else would you need to recruit ordinary Numenorean citizens to join? Doesn't Numenor already have soldiers that can escort the Queen?
Unless this some sort of huge mobilization and they need a huge amount of men?
Or, maybe it's just more bad writing and we shouldn't think too much into it.
Yeah, maybe it is as you say and we shouldn't think too much into it, at this point I'm ready to throw out the window everything that I think I know about the world and just wait for the end of the season, maybe it's gonna have some sense in the end.
 

Alex11

Member
It is going to be the one and that was one annoying thing of this episode - they do not know if Sauron is alive, where he is located, specific plight of people in Middle-Earth, but they are going anyway because YOLO.

Silmarillion framed it as a culmination of years if not decades of Sauron’s influence in Middle-Earth , where his actions could no longer be ignored.

Not a bad episode, cannot wait for all the people on Twitter posting how Numenor avoided it’s fate, HA.
Yeah, that is very weird indeed, as I know, Sauron first manipulates Celebrimbor, then the creation of the rings, then he creates the one ring and after that he attacks, only then Numenor comes to the help of the elves.

As I watched episode 4 it was so funny at the end when the queen said ok let's all follow Galadriel based on a dream and the tree`s leaves falling, all the while even we as viewers don't have a clue where Sauron is.

As I said, I'm prepared to forget everything I learned about the world and see where it goes, maybe it's something on it's own that it's interesting.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I’m having a lot of trouble investing in this show, mainly because I know where everything is headed. The central problem with all prequels. It looks lovely, but I’m finding it hard to care about any of it. The only characters whose fates we don’t know, are the ones Tolkien didn’t invent… and aren’t as interesting as the one he did. I’m watching out of idle curiosity to see how long it takes for Numenor to fall, Mordor to be created, etc. But none of it is exciting or captivating in any way beyond pretty sets and nice costumes.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
5 seasons.

Thinking about how to end it though you could have Smaug take the lonely mountain and the dwarves driven from the mines. Along with the death of isildur. Maybe the last shot could be strider sitting in a tavern with his riders.

There are thousands of years between Smaug sacking Erebor and isildur's death. Both events also happen in the Third Age.

However, the show runners are condensing thousands of years of the Second Age into 5 series, so it wouldn't surprise me if this show ended in the Third Age. Maybe the final shot will be at Bilbo's house with Frodo winking at the camera for shits and giggles.
 

pramod

Banned
I dunno, at this point I'm just starting to feel that these writers/producers might have bitten more off than they can chew.
The story/scope of the Second Age is massive and even on a bigger scale than what happened in LoTR.
We have stuff happening on 2 continents. At least 4 different races and their kingdoms.
So they have to do all that, and they're even adding new characters/storylines they have to flesh out.
It's just too much. There's no way they can pay enough attention to each part and still satisfy everyone.

Even Tolkien wasn't brave enough to try it, that's why he never fleshed out his storylines of the Second Age with actual novels.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
There are thousands of years between Smaug sacking Erebor and isildur's death. Both events also happen in the Third Age.

However, the show runners are condensing thousands of years of the Second Age into 5 series, so it wouldn't surprise me if this show ended in the Third Age. Maybe the final shot will be at Bilbo's house with Frodo winking at the camera for shits and giggles.
I don't think they care. At this point I'm pretty sure amazon is just gonna absorb the Tolkien estate and do what they want. If they do have the rights to Hobbit, LOTR, and just those appendices, then why waste time on that obscure shit when you can be doing "THE HOBBIT" as a TV show? Burning through the creation of the rings to get to Smeagol and then to Bilbo seems like a good move if RoP doesn't set the world on fire.

Hell, at this point they should license Dennis McKiernans "Silver Call" which was basically fanfic of dwarves taking back Moria and make it "not not-fanfic" by taking it back to Middle-Earth. Bet they could get those rights for mid 6 figures at best.
 
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AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
There are thousands of years between Smaug sacking Erebor and isildur's death. Both events also happen in the Third Age.

However, the show runners are condensing thousands of years of the Second Age into 5 series, so it wouldn't surprise me if this show ended in the Third Age. Maybe the final shot will be at Bilbo's house with Frodo winking at the camera for shits and giggles.
Whatever they come up with should have the eagles save everything.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
This comment makes absolutely no sense. Nothing in what he says shows that he understands any of it.
The key to understanding is being able to distinguish any value in the content from potential misdirection with that knowledge.

There's deep details from Tolkien lore in Corey Olsen's content that has been helpful for context. That in itself has been far more valuable than another youtube reviewers trying to profit from the same weekly outrage fixating on the same petty complaints with the same comments week after week.
 
Ok, let’s see what I remember from the show (because I was messing around on my phone for at least half the episode):

This part is not factoring the lore:

1. Some of the pacing is very odd. Some characters’ storylines move at a glacial pace while some other story elements jump all over the place. Elrond is still in the mines without much movement while Galadriel, in one episode, is imprisoned, escapes prison, gets banished from Numenor, is leading the people of Numenor to middle-earth.

2. That Galadriel prison escape. Yeah, we know she’s a Mary Sue Karen but the direction in that scene… rough. I think they did a quick cut to not show her fight the other guards and only show her shoving the guards in jail because it looked blatantly laughable. What we saw was already bad. Speaking of Galadriel, still with the same express and delivering poorly written lines as always. The scene of her coming back to Numenor was also very stupid. Everyone saw her get off the boat so did the queen tell her “stay hidden there and when you hear me say xxx, you come walking dramatically out”. Such bad writing.

3. Elrond and Durin’s friendship seems as fake as ever. My wife told me “I don’t buy them as good friends” and I agree. They told us they were good friends but we’ve never seen why nor have we seen them have a real conversation. They’re just reading bad lines that’s trying to sound deep. Also did Elrond teleport from Eregion and Khazad Dum again?

4. Singing to the rocks… urgh… dumb concept. Not much else to say.

5. So the queen doesn’t have guards to accompany her to middle-earth? They’re recruiting people from the market grounds to accompany her? They made Numenor look so small in this episode.

6. Arondir - so this guy is not only not killed by the orcs who killed everyone who were trying to escape (remember when all his friends were being killed, he was dragged down to go meet Adar) but he also is released by Adar. Adar btw, who was trying to be secretive but suddenly go tell the others. Classic trope this is - all because the writers didn’t know how to get him out of there. Btw, his arrow catching looked so silly as well. An arrow flies so fast that if this wasn’t slowed down, it would have looked ridiculous, like something from a Benny Hill fast forward sequence. Again, poor poor writing.

7. Another episode of Numenor 90210 starring Isil, his sister and his friends.

8. That Theo escape sequence - yeah, no one orc saw him until the end. He’s stomping about and no one is noticing him. Just because an orc is out of frame doesn’t mean that Theo is not visible to them.

Factoring the lore (I know the lore doesn’t mean much in this series but still):

1. We’ve seen the LotR movies, we’ve read the books - we know a palantir does not show the future.

2. Why is Numenor, meant to be the greatest military power the world has ever seen recruiting civilians? I hope this is not when they go to capture Sauron.

3. Rings of Power is suffering from the Star Wars syndrome where, because they are compressing the timeline so much and because the story is moving only due to a handful of characters, the world building sucks and makes the world Tolkien created look so small. Like in Star Wars, everything relates to the Skywalkers.

4. I hope they’re not making Adar the first orc or elf that was made into orc.
 
The key to understanding is being able to distinguish any value in the content from potential misdirection with that knowledge.

There's deep details from Tolkien lore in Corey Olsen's content that has been helpful for context. That in itself has been far more valuable than another youtube reviewers trying to profit from the same weekly outrage fixating on the same petty complaints with the same comments week after week.
I watched the Corey Olsen episode on the first 2 episodes. The guy is making assumptions to try to explain why the show writers are still respectful to the lore. That the writers are disregarding the lore is not even up for debate. Instead of talking about where the lore is not right, he cherry picks a few items, makes up a few assumptions and say “see the writers are big fans and are getting this right”. Ipso facto, bought. Maybe I would be doing the same too if I got offered trips around the world.

And yeah bad writing, bad direction, bad storytelling, bad acting, bad pacing and disrespect to the lore are petty complaints.

Could neogaf be a target for astroturfers?
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
Why does Galadriel take a ring from Sauron? She hates this dude wants to kill him but the moment he offers her jewelry she is like “ring me”.

She learned her lesson though because she denies Frodo.
 

pramod

Banned
2. Why is Numenor, meant to be the greatest military power the world has ever seen recruiting civilians? I hope this is not when they go to capture Sauron.
The more I think about it, I think this is it. This is the "most massive fleet/army the likes the world has never seen". The one that's going to make Sauron shake in his boots and his armies flee in terror.

Because what are they gonna do, make us sit through this all over again later, with the "real" fleet?
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
I watched the Corey Olsen episode on the first 2 episodes. The guy is making assumptions to try to explain why the show writers are still respectful to the lore. That the writers are disregarding the lore is not even up for debate. Instead of talking about where the lore is not right, he cherry picks a few items, makes up a few assumptions and say “see the writers are big fans and are getting this right”. Ipso facto, bought. Maybe I would be doing the same too if I got offered trips around the world.

And yeah bad writing, bad direction, bad storytelling, bad acting, bad pacing and disrespect to the lore are petty complaints.

Could neogaf be a target for astroturfers?
Pointing out what follows the books and what inspires the new is helpful for those that want to know more about the show in relation to the books.

Any opinions about the writing being respectful are irrelevant to that concern. Didn't even notice him making any remarks about that evaluation, he may have, those aren't a concern as an informed decision on that matter can be made by academics once the show is completed. Ascertain if it has carried the essence of the Flammifer of Westernesse, which it has so far. There has been no contradiction to that core element.

It's better than taking an opinion with no qualification seriously that makes sweeping statements like the show has bad writing, bad direction, bad storytelling, bad acting, bad pacing and disrespect based on nothing but shallow complaints.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Why does Galadriel take a ring from Sauron? She hates this dude wants to kill him but the moment he offers her jewelry she is like “ring me”.

She learned her lesson though because she denies Frodo.

When the original three elvish rings were made by Celebrimbor, they didn't know it was Sauron who helped him craft them. Furthermore, unlike the rings crafted for the other races, Sauron does not maintain control over the elvish rings when he's separated from them. This allows the wielders of those rings to use their power for their own devices, for good.
 

BaneIsPain

Member
The Numenoreans are supposed to be the best and most feared fighters in LOTR. In this show they are shown pretty inept. Ugh! This is so depressing to watch!
They have the blessing of not fearing death before the corruption and long age. I was hoping they will do better after the premiere. It seems halfway through the season and this is the best they produced? I hate allegory and I'm out.

Tolkien deserves better.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
When the original three elvish rings were made by Celebrimbor, they didn't know it was Sauron who helped him craft them. Furthermore, unlike the rings crafted for the other races, Sauron does not maintain control over the elvish rings when he's separated from them. This allows the wielders of those rings to use their power for their own devices, for good.
Women love jewelry.
 

sol_bad

Member
Really enjoyed episode 4, was nice to see more of Elrond and Durin's relationship, still enjoying the wife Disa as well.

Wasn't a big fan of the town meeting about elves taking over scene, it was a bit weird and not well done. It's obvious that Pharazon and the guy that Halbrand beat up are working together somehow though.

Did I interpret that destruction of Numenor and the petals correctly? Miriel has seen the prophecy of Numenors destruction and she assumed the arrival of Galadriel was a sign of the start of that destruction, and that's why she didn't trust her and wanted to get rid of her. But then as Galadriel left and the petals started falling she realised that was the actual sign of destruction, she thought if Galadriel left without any help, then Numenor was doomed. And that's why she invited her back.

As for Miriel and Elendil asking for volunteers, isn't there something in the lore that makes Numorians all agree to help in some big battle later but something else has to happen in the lore first?

I find it really weird how the people who hate this show are happy to follow and agree with the usual haters of contemporary pop culture on YouTube and other sites. But more than happy to completely disregard sites and Youtubers that have dedicated their lives, sites and channels to Tolkien who are positive on the show. The One Ring website has been around for 20+ years and the writers and editors are positive towards the show, but these haters will just call them shills and say that Amazon are paying them. Anyone calling anyone a fake Tolkien fan because they like this show need to get a new perspective and get away from these communities fueled by hate.
 

Alex11

Member
As for Miriel and Elendil asking for volunteers, isn't there something in the lore that makes Numorians all agree to help in some big battle later but something else has to happen in the lore first?
I don't think this is spoiler, because I think the show follows another course, so from what I know Numenor responds to the call from Gil-galad after Sauron attacks Eregion, but everyone knows of Sauron by this point and his attacks, they don't just sail from a hunch. In fact Gil-galad warns them previously to be on the ready, so they have ample time to ensemble their army.
 

e0n

Member
The show looks nice, but it lacks a compelling plot so far. Too much slow-mo in action scenes and for a lot of the mysteries it sets up, I can't see it being interesting to many unless they already had some deeper investment in the lore.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
I don't think this is spoiler, because I think the show follows another course, so from what I know Numenor responds to the call from Gil-galad after Sauron attacks Eregion, but everyone knows of Sauron by this point and his attacks, they don't just sail from a hunch. In fact Gil-galad warns them previously to be on the ready, so they have ample time to ensemble their army.
I just brushed up on the lore and the Fall of Numenor and it looks like they messed up the timeline.
Numenor fell long after the rings of power were forged, etc., etc.

So I guess that army they are building right now is not the one that captured Sauron. We might yet get 5 seasons out of it.
 
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