TaylorSwiftFan
Member
But that was not a vision of the future - that was Sauron showing him what he wanted to Pippin to see (it was Pippin, btw).
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
No, it’s still terrible without the lore. Like the Galadriel fight scene - no one can watch that and think it’s good direction and writing. Looked like a scene straight out of a cheap third-world produced TV show. It’s much worse if you know the lore, of course.
balls of snow
Member
Ahh because Sauron corrupted them balls. Make sense. Yep was weird they were treated as crystal balls this ep.
sol_bad
Member
But Numenor hasn't fallen and the rings haven't been created yet. As long as the rings are forged before Numenors destruction, they haven't messed up the time line yet. Right?
Hardensoul
Member
It looks good and the score is good! But story/dialogue and acting are mediocre to bad! My rating wouldn’t be that low but I wouldn’t give any episode over 5/10!
Cyberpunkd
Member
True, but the whole lead up to them mobilising was a bit strange, I don’t know if it was meant to make people think it’s the army or that was just unintentional.
Because if it’s not the main force the thing will go kinda like:
Men: The Numenoreans are here to save us!
Numenoreans: Nah, just scouting.
Ammogeddon
Member
Watched episode 4 over the course of yesterday evening. It’s such a chore, even when broken down into segments.
Really not a fan of the way they hang off the coat tails of PJ’s trilogy. I appreciate it’s the same IP but they have taken beats from the films and diluted them into a series, without skill or style.
Considering they wanted to be their own thing they seem pretty slavish to PJ’s trilogy to me and lack any originality whatsoever. This show is just window dressing and a montage of borrowed ideas.
The latest irritating riff on the movies was when Arondir was fleeing the orks. This was just a take from FotR after Boromir’s death. The slomo and mournful music worked in the movie because of the tragedy of Boromir. In RoP the scene feels like it exists purely as a memberry and it didn’t work at all. But hey, at least we didn’t get any Harfoots this episode.
Also, the slomo in general is overdone. Rather than impressing me it just makes me think Michael Bay movie.
Elysion
Banned
When that black elf (Arondir I believe?) was escaping the orcs with the kid, I wondered if he was going to die; the whole slow-mo + dramatic music combination certainly gave that impression. It would’ve certainly raised the stakes and shown the audience that main characters don’t all have plot armor.
Anyway, after this episode I’m 90% sure that Halbrand is Sauron. Apparently in canon there actually was a period after Morgoth’s defeat where Sauron was (trying to) repent and just lived a normal life without doing bad stuff, but eventually fell back into his evil ways. I think that’s what the show is trying to do with Sauron here, and it will be Galadriel’s actions that are going to be partially responsible for turning him back to the ‘dark side’ (which would fit with Gil-Galad’s warning in the first episode that her actions might do more harm than good).
Of course, the timeline of events is totally different here, and Adar wasn’t a thing in canon. I wonder if Adar is a former ally or subordinate of Sauron who has usurped him as leader in the south, which is why Halbrand/Sauron was fleeing from there. This season will probably be about Halbrand, Galadriel and Numenor defeating Adar, and putting Halbrand back in charge of the south (not knowing that he’s Sauron of course). Next season will then be about the forging of the Rings, and Sauron starting to turn evil again.
But speaking of timelines, just how much time has passed during Elrond’s storyline so far, considering they’ve already started to build that tower? It must have been weeks or even months, right?
Anyway, after this episode I’m 90% sure that Halbrand is Sauron. Apparently in canon there actually was a period after Morgoth’s defeat where Sauron was (trying to) repent and just lived a normal life without doing bad stuff, but eventually fell back into his evil ways. I think that’s what the show is trying to do with Sauron here, and it will be Galadriel’s actions that are going to be partially responsible for turning him back to the ‘dark side’ (which would fit with Gil-Galad’s warning in the first episode that her actions might do more harm than good).
Of course, the timeline of events is totally different here, and Adar wasn’t a thing in canon. I wonder if Adar is a former ally or subordinate of Sauron who has usurped him as leader in the south, which is why Halbrand/Sauron was fleeing from there. This season will probably be about Halbrand, Galadriel and Numenor defeating Adar, and putting Halbrand back in charge of the south (not knowing that he’s Sauron of course). Next season will then be about the forging of the Rings, and Sauron starting to turn evil again.
But speaking of timelines, just how much time has passed during Elrond’s storyline so far, considering they’ve already started to build that tower? It must have been weeks or even months, right?
FunkMiller
Member
Oh. I don’t think you know the half of it. If Amazon owned the estate, they’d own Tolkien’s notes on The New Shadow.
Get ready for it…
If Disney can produce a terrible set of sequels to the original Star Wars trilogy, then just think what Amazon could do with a Lord Of The Rings sequel trilogy!
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
Oh. I don’t think you know the half of it. If Amazon owned the estate, they’d own Tolkien’s notes on The New Shadow.
Get ready for it…
If Disney can produce a terrible set of sequels to the original Star Wars trilogy, then just think what Amazon could do with a Lord Of The Rings sequel trilogy!
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Folks, I am bailing out.
The show is boring and thoroughly unentertaining. I just can't be arsed to watch more than 10 minutes without pausing to do something else, episode 4 took me like 3 hours to watch with all the breaks.
The show is boring and thoroughly unentertaining. I just can't be arsed to watch more than 10 minutes without pausing to do something else, episode 4 took me like 3 hours to watch with all the breaks.
Not a big fan of eo4 but I did REALLY like the scene with Durin and his dad where the king is comfortable enough to trust his son.
SHOCKED these writers let two men have a normal healthy relationship.
Did NOT like Durin handig over some mithril to Elrond though. That seemed a step too far.
Dem Dwarven women though, they all TWICE the size of their men? They going for that neglected cosplay audience
Pretty sure Halbrand is Sauron. I think they twisted the "Numenor captured Sauron and took him.back to the island" bit into "Sauron washed up on the beach and got thrown in jail for brawling".
Anyone planning on getting the Second Age book by Shipley?
And I can't believe they stole the idea of a blood fueled power sword from Margaret Weis' The Lost King scifi series though
SHOCKED these writers let two men have a normal healthy relationship.
Did NOT like Durin handig over some mithril to Elrond though. That seemed a step too far.
Dem Dwarven women though, they all TWICE the size of their men? They going for that neglected cosplay audience
Pretty sure Halbrand is Sauron. I think they twisted the "Numenor captured Sauron and took him.back to the island" bit into "Sauron washed up on the beach and got thrown in jail for brawling".
Anyone planning on getting the Second Age book by Shipley?
And I can't believe they stole the idea of a blood fueled power sword from Margaret Weis' The Lost King scifi series though
Konnor
Member
Immigrant elves are going to take our jobs? Really?
"Elves who don't get tired, don't age..."
Numenoreans themselves lived for several hundred years.
You're ruining the narrative with your annoying facts, can't you see that your virtuous and omniscient Hollywood overlords are trying to teach you something important here? Just... stop, OK?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Immigrant elves are going to take our jobs? Really?
"Elves who don't get tired, don't age..."
Numenoreans themselves lived for several hundred years.
Numenor fell because they voted in a republican president, apparently.
Ulysses 31
Member
What did Tolkien think of allegories again?
Cyberpunkd
Member
They also enslaved people of Middle-Earth and sacrificed them to Morgoth. Fun times.Immigrant elves are going to take our jobs? Really?
"Elves who don't get tired, don't age..."
Numenoreans themselves lived for several hundred years.
I’m sure the series will paint them as simply being misunderstood.
Konnor
Member
What did Tolkien think of allegories again?
And the poor man hadn't even seen Hollywood allegory that hits you in the face with its messages so fucking hard just to make 100% sure that you know how virtuous the writers that wrote it are. That man's corpse needs to be connected to the electrical grid, it must be spinning so fast right now it can generate more electricity than a nuclear plant.
This was especially funny since the ELVES had to turn to DWARVES for their major infrastructure project. So humans are like at the very bottom of the labor well. I 'spect we will see Harfoots discovering electricity next ep to really drive home how dumb the humies areImmigrant elves are going to take our jobs? Really?
"Elves who don't get tired, don't age..."
Numenoreans themselves lived for several hundred years.
So is mithril gonna be the secret sauce for constructing the rings? So far there is little to no magic (tele-palantir aside and that sword I 'spose) so I wonder if Sauron's "help" will be more in line with getting elves to fight dwarves to get more mithril rather than secret technology/magic. I gotta think we will see conflict over mithril, despite there eventually being enough of it for kid sized shirts of it in time.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
This show does give the impression of being a means to learn to write new material around the Flammifer of Westernesse in this format from which to develop and secure talents to create a story following the destuction of the One Ring.
It's good timing for that creation as the round world is better understood by the West who know the lands, borders and stories of Tolkien's direct work. There is more that can be drawn into the story that couldn't be included previously.
Harad, Khand, Rhun having long been under the influence with new enemies influenced by the shade of Sauron echoing. The continuing effect of Morgoth's influence on the Music of the Ainur. Maybe include a couple newly discovered lands beyond the eastern sea with blue wizards. Lands in the north that are strong and allied with the West and lands in the south under influence of the new darkness. It's almost a completely parallel Earth.
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Good question. When I was watching the episode, I thought that surely these cannot be the forges, right? Because last we heard of it was in Ep1 when Durin said he’ll hear out Elrond’s proposal. We don’t hear anymore of it and now suddenly, in the space of a few days, the forges are about a third done. Btw, we’re never see the dwarves mining or building stuff. Do they not have the budget for that? And Elrond finding out about the phrase to open up that secret door - fucking hell. Dumb as shit.
Also, can the orcs not fire arrows when their targets are in the sun? They were fine with being in the sun and shooting arrows at Arondir’s friend 2 episodes ago. But in this episode they cannot?
Ammogeddon
Member
I thought Galadriel’s maniacal smile reminded me of something.
It’s Aphex Twin for those that don’t know who it is. Go watch Windowlicker and you won’t be able to unsee what you see.
It’s Aphex Twin for those that don’t know who it is. Go watch Windowlicker and you won’t be able to unsee what you see.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Reminded me of a genuinely happy woman, but then again, I've seen them.I thought Galadriel’s maniacal smile reminded me of something.
It’s Aphex Twin for those that don’t know who it is. Go watch Windowlicker and you won’t be able to unsee what you see.
Hardensoul
Member
With $50 million plus per episode you’d imagine they had enough budget! I don’t trust these show runners with more money!
Also, nearly a billion for this first season there’s only 8 episodes!
Everything feels very cramped. Small soundstages with a handful of actors, cutting to huge, expensive CG vistas too wide to see anything in particular. They're not incorporated well to provide a sense of place.With $50 million plus per episode you’d imagine they had enough budget! I don’t trust these show runners with more money!
Also, nearly a billion for this first season there’s only 8 episodes!
partime
Member
I could have sworn I heard arrows overhead above them towards the end of the scene, although not when the orcs first appeared in the forest.
Hardensoul
Member
Not sure of timeline when they moved from filming in New Zealand to filming in UK. It’s likely why there’s not much consistency in the scenes.
They haven't started filming in the UK yet if I'm not terribly wrong.
Hardensoul
Member
Oh! I was mistaken! The delays were Covid related and trouble with travel to New Zealand due to lockdown measures.
They are moving to UK because the cast/crew are mostly from UK in case of more lockdowns?
I don't know about that. I've heard different reasons, but I'm not sure anything official is said.
They're not finished building thr sound stages though, so before they can start filming season 2, that needs to be done, sets need to be built.
Could be a while until s2.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Officially it's because Amazon already has extensive sound stage space leased in the UK for other series. Some also said the Estate wanted it closer to them as well.
New Zealand Reacts to the ‘Shame’ of Losing Amazon’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ Mega-Series
After losing Amazon's 'Lord of the Rings' TV mega series, questions are being asked in New Zealand about policy, subsidies and tourism.
variety.com
Yeah, they let loose a few shots but either they were told to let them go or the plot armor gained a few +1 bonuses that moment.
So is that Narsil? Seems like it must be, thoiugh I'd have expected it to be hanging over Elendils fireplace.
This show is getting me interested in buying some of those LOTR swords though, I had forgotten how nice those designs were.
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's Narsil and it's the Richard Taylor designed Narsil from the Jackson movies.
sol_bad
Member
The dock set when Galariel was leaving was small and cramped? Looked pretty large to me.
Kacho
Gold Member
Damn his general statement is invalidated now. Thanks sol_badguy for keeping up the good fight.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
But... She didn't swim back...
Hardensoul
Member
I know right…she was sure there would be plenty castaways to swam into, ain’t nuttin to it!
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
When you never get tired of stealing jobs you can swim forever.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
The thing is the show does a piss poor job of explaining why the First Age / Valinorian Elves are so darn powerful, and why huge feats of strength, endurance etc are within the realms of possibility for someone like Galadriel.
It also doesn't help that Galadriel acts like a typical human being (or worse even), with all the same mannerisms, petty concerns etc. As we've discussed before, she acts like a wilful tactless tool instead of the wise powerful self-assured immortal that lived and learned in the realm of the gods. And she's like that with both elves and humans.
And again the inconsistencies. So the writers were going to set her up that she was capable of swimming all the way from the edge of Valinor and back to Middle-earth. I honestly thought Ulmo, since he's always been sympathetic to the plight of the folks in Middle-earth, would give her a helping hand but there was a no show from him. Anyway, so she swims this undetermined distance, and she manages to find castaways (maybe Ulmo pushed them into her path), and she clambers onto the makeshift raft instead of vaunting onto it like the powerful being that she is. They wasted an opportunity for some helpful exposition from the other survivors to point out that she's not cold, tired etc because she's one of the blasted Elves or something. Another scene that would have helped establishing her powers, would be where the raft is being thrown in huge seas and Halbrand is doing all he can to stay onboard. And Galadriel is just standing there, without gripping anything or struggling at all despite the tempest around her. Little things like that. Instead what we get is Galadriel clinging on for dear life.
I think that's what I liked about PJ's portrayal of the Elves in his movies. They were clearly different than the normal humans. I liked for example that scene at Caradhras where Legolas is walking lightly upon the snow as if he was having a stroll in the park, whereas the rest of the fellowship are up to their necks in the white shit and freezing their collective balls off.
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Kacho
Gold Member
The writing is amazing!
Alex11
Member
They are humans, but a little better in everything than a normal one, plus the longer age span. The show says very little, just that they are different and were granted the island by the Valar.
Hardensoul
Member
I don’t recall if they even mention that in the show! They look just like normal humans!
The way Galadriel woman handled those guards doesn’t look like they are anything special!
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Nope; nothing was explicitly mentioned about their characteristic in the show as far as I know?
The Numenoreans are suped up humans essentially. Stronger, wiser, longer lived - gifts from the Valar for their fight and sacrifices alongside the Elves against Morgoth.
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John_Ryder
Member
Make Numenor Great Again
Cyberpunkd
Member
This was incredibly obvious in the tower scene with refugees in episode 4. There is almost no room for people to walk through.