Support NeoGAF

[AJUMP23]

Look at this lol. Look at how the 2 guards walk into the jail when she starts swinging her hands.

We all know you don't mess with an angry elf.

 

[Hardensoul]

We all know you don't mess with an angry elf.

Guyladriel! I didn’t chuckle at the reference before until now!

 

[QSD]

Seeing Galadriel sword fighting and getting into tussles just feels....wrong? I don't know how to quite describe it. She's just so powerful and wise, that something like swordfighting should be beneath her. Part of the reason why I loved Galadriel so much is that despite being supremely powerful, she was kind, sweet, maternal, and loving. She never looked down on others as lesser folk. Of course if you fucked with her, she could end you in an instant, but that wasn't the focus. The story focused on her kindness, and that's what made her such a beloved and endearing character.

Rings of Power Galadriel is basically how Galadriel or how any "strong female character" is written in the modern age.

It's kind of surprising to hear how you remember movie Galadriel as kind and maternal, while if you look at the movie scenes she is in, her character is more ambivalent and (I would argue) closer to the Galadriel in the series than you realize. When the fellowship arrive in Lothlorien, she almost immediately speaks to Frodo telepathically, not welcoming him but telling him he brings great evil. Later when the fellowship has their audience, she is presented as both kind and stern at the same time. Her words soothe but her gaze pierces, frightening Gimli and Boromir. She also speaks to Frodo again telepathically, calling him 'one who has seen THE EYE". (as if he needed reminding) She later invites Frodo to look into the mirror, knowing in advance that what he will see will be of no comfort. Then there's the 'you would have a Queeeeeeen!' scene which is obviously also very frightening to Frodo. So all in all, she is both kind and stern, and she is as eager to remind the fellowship of the peril they are in and the heavy responsibility they carry ("the quest stands upon the edge of a knife, stray but a little and it will fail, to the ruin of all").

In the series it's the stern Galadriel who is at the forefront, similarly reminding everyone of the danger they are in and their responsibility to oppose Morgoth/Sauron. The last episode shows her learning to be kinder and less judgmental.

Oh and before I forget, in the Hobbit one of the few cool scenes is the one where she banishes Sauron from Dol Guldur, there you can definitely see glimpses of the fierce, fighting Galadriel.

 

[Batiman]

It's kind of surprising to hear how you remember movie Galadriel as kind and maternal, while if you look at the movie scenes she is in, her character is more ambivalent and (I would argue) closer to the Galadriel in the series than you realize. When the fellowship arrive in Lothlorien, she almost immediately speaks to Frodo telepathically, not welcoming him but telling him he brings great evil. Later when the fellowship has their audience, she is presented as both kind and stern at the same time. Her words soothe but her gaze pierces, frightening Gimli and Boromir. She also speaks to Frodo again telepathically, calling him 'one who has seen THE EYE". (as if he needed reminding) She later invites Frodo to look into the mirror, knowing in advance that what he will see will be of no comfort. Then there's the 'you would have a Queeeeeeen!' scene which is obviously also very frightening to Frodo. So all in all, she is both kind and stern, and she is as eager to remind the fellowship of the peril they are in and the heavy responsibility they carry ("the quest stands upon the edge of a knife, stray but a little and it will fail, to the ruin of all").

In the series it's the stern Galadriel who is at the forefront, similarly reminding everyone of the danger they are in and their responsibility to oppose Morgoth/Sauron. The last episode shows her learning to be kinder and less judgmental.

Oh and before I forget, in the Hobbit one of the few cool scenes is the one where she banishes Sauron from Dol Guldur, there you can definitely see glimpses of the fierce, fighting Galadriel.

For real. “Kind and sweet” is not how I would describe LOTR Galadriel.

 

[jason10mm]

For real. “Kind and sweet” is not how I would describe LOTR Galadriel.

If you watch the EE with the gift giving scene intact I think it gives that impression more.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Yup, dozens of Ents appearing all of the sudden when it was made clear that they take a loooong time to gather/mobilize and they are very deliberate about what they do was a disappointment

Poor Gimli was played for comic relief quite a lot, but to a certain extent I'll defend (or perhaps 'condone') what Jackson did as IMHO he was trying to steer clear of the movies becoming too solemn and self-serious, which they certainly would have been at risk of becoming, in other hands. There were so many pitfalls to avoid really (casting a famous but ill-suited and distracting superstar actor, making the movies too short, failing to 'sell' the threat of Sauron or the corrupting influence of the ring, etc etc) that the fact he managed to get the movies as good as they are is nothing short of a miracle.

While it wasn't optimal the treatment of Gimli wasn't as strong a gripe for me as the Ents. Adding humour, even romance, is understandable for a movie adaptation meant to have wide appeal. That allowances and sacrifices which sometimes caricature have to be made and to keep things simpler.

What was the worst overall, in terms of alterations to core elements for me, was related to Earendil(Flammifer of Westernesse) and the handling of Anduril(The Flame of the West). It's with Anduril, which Aragorn named in the book, that he sets out from Rivendell at the start of the quest. This presence is essential for fuller development of the ascension of Aragorn's kingship. The filmmakers wanted to expand on Arwen and that is a good ambition, but there are other conceivable ways to expand on Arwen, while echoing the ancient trials and decision presented to Elwing, without diminishing the presence of the Flame. Although, in context of the overall film it was a fair attempt and workable. It just doesn't seem they understood that the myths in the book from the beginning can be read like music with developing refrains, which the Rings of Power seems to get.

While that alteration greatly diminished the philosophic value of the movie for me(which could probably be easily overlooked by others) it's still a remarkable movie as the other changes to dwarves and whatnot aren't as detrimental to the underlying theme.

So far, no alterations in Rings of Power has taken away from that core element of the books even though they're spinning stories around directly around Earendil. And in contrast to Jackson the better treatment of the dwarves in Rings of Power stand out. Singing to the stone in the last episode was a satisfying scene. In a meta sense the dwarves were unburied and found alive.

 

[Madflavor]

It's kind of surprising to hear how you remember movie Galadriel as kind and maternal, while if you look at the movie scenes she is in, her character is more ambivalent and (I would argue) closer to the Galadriel in the series than you realize. When the fellowship arrive in Lothlorien, she almost immediately speaks to Frodo telepathically, not welcoming him but telling him he brings great evil. Later when the fellowship has their audience, she is presented as both kind and stern at the same time. Her words soothe but her gaze pierces, frightening Gimli and Boromir. She also speaks to Frodo again telepathically, calling him 'one who has seen THE EYE". (as if he needed reminding) She later invites Frodo to look into the mirror, knowing in advance that what he will see will be of no comfort. Then there's the 'you would have a Queeeeeeen!' scene which is obviously also very frightening to Frodo. So all in all, she is both kind and stern, and she is as eager to remind the fellowship of the peril they are in and the heavy responsibility they carry ("the quest stands upon the edge of a knife, stray but a little and it will fail, to the ruin of all").

In the series it's the stern Galadriel who is at the forefront, similarly reminding everyone of the danger they are in and their responsibility to oppose Morgoth/Sauron. The last episode shows her learning to be kinder and less judgmental.

Oh and before I forget, in the Hobbit one of the few cool scenes is the one where she banishes Sauron from Dol Guldur, there you can definitely see glimpses of the fierce, fighting Galadriel.

Yeah I know all that but she suppresses that side of her in favor of being good, so my point still stands. When Gimli requests only a single strand of hair from her head, and she gives him three, that speaks the most of Galadriel's character to me.

 

[Batiman]

If you watch the EE with the gift giving scene intact I think it gives that impression more.

It does show a kind side of her I’ll agree. But overall she gave off an evil witch vibe more overall lol. Scary and intimidating

 

[Alex11]

If you need to crap on the movies in order to prop up this show, you know it is bad.

Right? But why does it need to come to this? I mean, this show, however decent it might be with potential to be great, doesn't even come near the trilogy. Sure, if people want to crap on it, there are always reasons as no movie is perfect, and you can find fault in every single one, but it is really a shame.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

It does show a kind side of her I’ll agree. But overall she gave off an evil witch vibe more overall lol. Scary and intimidating

Exactly. The gift was an opportunity to show that side of her character.

The scene could have even been showing that her mood and character may have even been lightened by her passing the test of taking the ring and ending that burden upon her conscience. Whatever the case, comparing portrayals in RoP with the film is fair, both show she's a more complex character than to be summarized as kind and sweet.

 

[Batiman]

Exactly. The gift was an opportunity to show that side of her character.

The scene could have even been showing that her mood and character may have even been lightened by her passing the test of taking the ring and ending that burden upon her conscience. Whatever the case, comparing portrayals in RoP with the film is fair, both show she's a more complex character than to be summarized as kind and sweet.

Well people seem to assume elves don’t change during hundreds of years. I’d find it weird if the Galadriel from LOTR would be the same as the Galadriel from the show considering the difference in time and what she’s been through

 

[EviLore]

Well people seem to assume elves don’t change during hundreds of years. I’d find it weird if the Galadriel from LOTR would be the same as the Galadriel from the show considering the difference in time and what she’s been through

She has the disposition of a spoiled teenager throwing a temper tantrum because she got a BMW instead of a Lamborghini for her Sweet 16.

 

[FunkMiller]

My main issue with Galadriel is that they’ve hamstrung any character development in her from the get go.

She starts thinking that Sauron might still be out there… and guess what? She’s 100% right. There seems to be little room for her to grow or change as a person, beyond ‘humans ain’t so bad really’. Her opinions and motivations will be proved right, every time, because what she believes is exactly what’s going to happen.

Would have served the story far better if she’d started also thinking that the evil had been vanquished with the defeat of Sauron, but then something had happened to change her mind, and shock her out of her comfort zone. Force her to question her reality. Make her face something.

As it stands, we have the ‘battle hardened warrior is the only one smart enough to know evil still exists’ trope. Boring.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Well people seem to assume elves don’t change during hundreds of years. I’d find it weird if the Galadriel from LOTR would be the same as the Galadriel from the show considering the difference in time and what she’s been through

Since the effects of time are different its experience would be different for elves. It could be speculated it takes significant metaphysical events to change their character, like Galadriel passing the test of the Ring. That burden of that doom could have been on her mind all those years thinking up different scenarios where the ring is found and brought to Lothlorien.

 

[QSD]

Yeah I know all that but she suppresses that side of her in favor of being good, so my point still stands. When Gimli requests only a single strand of hair from her head, and she gives him three, that speaks the most of Galadriel's character to me.

Hey I'm not going to shit on the gift giving, that was super sweet. There's still 4 seasons and some episodes to go though, so who knows how generous she will be later.

What was the worst overall, in terms of alterations to core elements for me, was related to Earendil(Flammifer of Westernesse) and the handling of Anduril(The Flame of the West). It's with Anduril, which Aragorn named in the book, that he sets out from Rivendell at the start of the quest. This presence is essential for fuller development of the ascension of Aragorn's kingship. The filmmakers wanted to expand on Arwen and that is a good ambition, but there are other conceivable ways to expand on Arwen, while echoing the ancient trials and decision presented to Elwing, without diminishing the presence of the Flame. Although, in context of the overall film it was a fair attempt and workable. It just doesn't seem they understood that the myths in the book from the beginning can be read like music with developing refrains, which the Rings of Power seems to get.

I never noticed this or remember much about it from the books. The movies veered away from the 'high myth' aspects of the lore in order to make them more accessible, and that's understandable to me.

My main issue with Galadriel is that they’ve hamstrung any character development in her from the get go.

She starts thinking that Sauron might still be out there… and guess what? She’s 100% right. There seems to be little room for her to grow or change as a person, beyond ‘humans ain’t so bad really’. Her opinions and motivations will be proved right, every time, because what she believes is exactly what’s going to happen.

Would have served the story far better if she’d started also thinking that the evil had been vanquished with the defeat of Sauron, but then something had happened to change her mind, and shock her out of her comfort zone. Force her to question her reality. Make her face something.

As it stands, we have the ‘battle hardened warrior is the only one smart enough to know evil still exists’ trope. Boring.

IDK what's wrong with "proud and self-righteous elf princess needs to learn empathy and patience" ? Maybe that scene where she sees the old king in his bed is the first time she truly has to confront what it means for humans to die of old age, and to have to care for your own father while he slowly withers away? I mean, you can't say there isn't any character development in those scenes.

She has the disposition of a spoiled teenager throwing a temper tantrum because she got a BMW instead of a Lamborghini for her Sweet 16.

Dude, she's a horse chick, not a car chick! IMHO if she had been this perfectly wise, polite and well-adjusted princess from the get-go, she'd be like Rey from Star Wars, and that truly was a completely boring, unmemorable character.

 

[Batiman]

She has the disposition of a spoiled teenager throwing a temper tantrum because she got a BMW instead of a Lamborghini for her Sweet 16.

I guess a bit. Especially how she’s almost immediately hostile towards the queen without any justification. Besides that she just seems super intent on finishing her goal. It makes the LOTR Galadriel look more grown and wise as what I think they’re intent was

Then again she would be like a teen considering her lifespan. Sort of like how hobbits act like children when they’re 50. Sort of like how Thor is young hard head when he’s already 100s of years old or whatever how old he is

 

[Kimahri]

Dude, she's a horse chick, not a car chick! IMHO if she had been this perfectly wise, polite and well-adjusted princess from the get-go, she'd be like Rey from Star Wars, and that truly was a completely boring, unmemorable character.

Can you at the very least make an attempt to try to understand the complaints?

Nobody is asking fpr her to be movie Galadriel 1 to 1.

What we're asking is for the show to reflect her massive age, and not treat her like some juvenile inexperienced idiot.

I'm not sure some people grasp how long these elves lived. And Tolkien even wrote that they mature early. They could talk at one years old.

 

[QSD]

Can you at the very least make an attempt to try to understand the complaints?

Nobody is asking fpr her to be movie Galadriel 1 to 1.

What we're asking is for the show to reflect her massive age, and not treat her like some juvenile inexperienced idiot.

I'm not sure some people grasp how long these elves lived. And Tolkien even wrote that they mature early. They could talk at one years old.

I think I sort of understand...

let me put it this way: from a dramatic/theatrical point of view, elves are kind of boring characters, they're all these virtuous, high-minded, detached, reserved beings that respond to most every plot development with some degree of equanimity. Which is understandable, as they are so friggin old they've seen it all before literally thousands of times. It's close to impossible to imagine how a real person would react to having such a massive lifespan, as at a certain point it would just become impossible to become surprised, excited or enthusiastic about anything. Hell, they might even literally want to kill themselves out of sheer boredom after 900 years of the same shit.

Anyway, in order to make Elves at least somewhat relatable they have to be written as being more human than they'd actually be, if you understand my meaning. Tolkien did this to a certain extent, and the LOTR movies also wrestled with it (they made Legolas a kind of stunt/action hero to give him more of a personality). Now the series has to find a way to make Galadriel a compelling character, to give her a meaningful development arc. They chose to lean into her pride and self-righteousness, which might have been done better, sure, but IMHO the people who complain sort of underestimate how hard it is to write an immortal, super old, super experienced character and still make them compelling enough to carry all the way through a 5 season series. She has to have flaws and shortcomings she can overcome, lessons she can learn (otherwise the mary sue complaint looms large) so what ought they to be according to you?

 

[Kimahri]

I think I sort of understand...

let me put it this way: from a dramatic/theatrical point of view, elves are kind of boring characters, they're all these virtuous, high-minded, detached, reserved beings that respond to most every plot development with some degree of equanimity. Which is understandable, as they are so friggin old they've seen it all before literally thousands of times. It's close to impossible to imagine how a real person would react to having such a massive lifespan, as at a certain point it would just become impossible to become surprised, excited or enthusiastic about anything. Hell, they might even literally want to kill themselves out of sheer boredom after 900 years of the same shit.

Anyway, in order to make Elves at least somewhat relatable they have to be written as being more human than they'd actually be, if you understand my meaning. Tolkien did this to a certain extent, and the LOTR movies also wrestled with it (they made Legolas a kind of stunt/action hero to give him more of a personality). Now the series has to find a way to make Galadriel a compelling character, to give her a meaningful development arc. They chose to lean into her pride and self-righteousness, which might have been done better, sure, but IMHO the people who complain sort of underestimate how hard it is to write an immortal, super old, super experienced character and still make them compelling enough to carry all the way through a 5 season series. She has to have flaws and shortcomings she can overcome, lessons she can learn (otherwise the mary sue complaint looms large) so what ought they to be according to you?

Is it really that hard though? Many authors have done it with great success. All you really have to do is define what an elf is, give them traits that are unique to them, and Tolkien did that.

Making her more human is their biggest mistake imo, because then you're first of all underestimating your audience, and second, you're pulling her down to a level she should be beyond.

By writing her the way they have, they make it hard to believe in her because she's supposed to be so old. Age generally brings wisdom, and with all you should have seen and experienced in the span of thousands of years, you should have some perspective on things that goes beyond temper tantrums.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Well people seem to assume elves don’t change during hundreds of years. I’d find it weird if the Galadriel from LOTR would be the same as the Galadriel from the show considering the difference in time and what she’s been through

I think this is an incorrect assumption. People seem to think that elves just mature slower but in my opinion this can be liked to them being in no rush at all - they are immortal, they saw everything dozens of times. It's a matter of perspective humans will never be able to comprehend.

Someone made a great point how to show it on the screen when Galadriel was on the boat - could have made her not move at all during the storm, perfect control over her body and elements, while others try to hold on. This would have driven the point that elves are not human, just immortal - they are on a completely different level.

Yet time and time again they show Galadriel exactly as other human characters. There is no difference between her and other humans.

 

[QSD]

Is it really that hard though? Many authors have done it with great success. All you really have to do is define what an elf is, give them traits that are unique to them, and Tolkien did that.

Making her more human is their biggest mistake imo, because then you're first of all underestimating your audience, and second, you're pulling her down to a level she should be beyond.

By writing her the way they have, they make it hard to believe in her because she's supposed to be so old. Age generally brings wisdom, and with all you should have seen and experienced in the span of thousands of years, you should have some perspective on things that goes beyond temper tantrums.

Well I guess at least we agree that if you wrote Galadriel like the age she actually is, she'd be so experienced and wise she'd be far beyond caring about any momentary human concerns. She's be almost impossible to deceive, for example, having learned from thousands of earlier interactions. IMHO you'd end up with a kind of 'superman problem' where it would be pretty hard to imagine what antagonists or circumstances to pit her against because by human standards she has no weaknesses and it's impossible (due to her massive life experience) to put her outside of her comfort zone.
I guess we also agree that they didn't write her to act her age, but I guess I'm willing to overlook that in favour of having some kind of character arc/development for her.

I'd be interested to hear what authors or fiction you've encountered that have interesting immortal characters that actually act their age? Off the top of my head, there is vampire-related fiction, but vampires are lustful, animalistic beings compelled by a hunger for blood (which is a far cry from the lust-free Elves in Tolkien lore). If you look at other sources of myth like the norse or greek gods, they act more or less like humans regardless of their age.

 

[EviLore]

I'd be interested to hear what authors or fiction you've encountered that have interesting immortal characters that actually act their age?

The works of JRR Tolkien come to mind.

 

[QSD]

The works of JRR Tolkien come to mind.

I'd say that the appeal of Tolkien's work is not necessarily in the characterization. Compared to other great works of literature, the characters take a back seat to the world building, landscape description and the beauty of the language itself.
Although he did write about immortal characters, they aren't really fully fleshed out to the degree that we actually understand how they deal with their immortality. There's this beautifully written bleak scene in TTT where Elrond describes to Arwen the consequences of choosing a human as her husband (pasted below). The thing is, this is actually what happens as Arwen gets married to Aragorn, but exactly how she deals with the feelings grief, loneliness, alienation, abandonment, boredom, you name it, that will come her way is left unclear. Does she simply not accumulate these feelings? How does she deal with seeing generations of people being born and dying again? Is she still capable of attaching herself emotionally to new people after experiencing loss time and time again? How does she not become jaded and reclusive?

This is not very important to the LOTR narrative, but it becomes more important when writing for Galadriel in ROP as you are going to be spending a significant amount of time with her, and it needs to be established how her inner motivations work. What the writers of the ROP series did is just bypass that problem by giving her a more human-like character that still has shit to learn and growing up to do, which is IMHO a defensible choice given you want the audience to be able to relate to her.

 

[AJUMP23]

I'd be interested to hear what authors or fiction you've encountered that have interesting immortal characters that actually act their age? Off the top of my head, there is vampire-related fiction, but vampires are lustful, animalistic beings compelled by a hunger for blood (which is a far cry from the lust-free Elves in Tolkien lore). If you look at other sources of myth like the norse or greek gods, they act more or less like humans regardless of their age.

Greek fiction the immortal gods are petty and humanistic because they don’t care. They live forever and man cannot harm them.

Highlander the immortal characters act based upon their experience. Most are wealthy and reserved or psychotic due to not fearing death.

Interview with a vampire, they have the perspective of centuries.

 

[Hardensoul]

In the supposed time of the events in Rings of Power Galadriel is suppose to be 3000 to 5000 yrs old! Don’t tell me she still needs growth. She should already have matured and tact for deplomacy!

Bit all I see so far is Galadriel acting like a spoiled child, that seems to always should or got what she wants. Courtesy be damn! If I was Queen Muriel I would be head her on the spot for acting the way she has since she was saved and brought to Numenor!

 

[sol_bad]

In the supposed time of the events in Rings of Power Galadriel is suppose to be 3000 to 5000 yrs old! Don’t tell me she still needs growth. She should already have matured and tact for deplomacy!

Bit all I see so far is Galadriel acting like a spoiled child, that seems to always should or got what she wants. Courtesy be damn! If I was Queen Muriel I would be head her on the spot for acting the way she has since she was saved and brought to Numenor!

Hasn't she basically been hunting for Sauron for the entire 2nd Age in the Rings of Power show? How would she learn about diplomacy if she's been a soldier in command for hundreds/thousands of years?

 

[Lord Panda]

Galadriel, given her backstory, would be a challenging character to write for a TV show aimed at the masses. So I was thinking, how would I possibly do it while staying true'ish to the character and also relatable to the viewers? I'd go from the opposite end where she's this unfathomable foreboding god-like being, that's driven by a far higher purpose and motivations. Over the course of the show, we see her slowly connecting and relating with some of her peers (especially the Elves that never went to Valinor), the other races such as the humans and dwarves, and beginning to appreciate their views, their creature comforts, empathise with their struggles etc. Basically a Spock being more humanised by his human crew type of trope.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

The portrayal of dwarves was also really poor in LotR being mostly comedy relief. Rings of Power has already done better.

Have the dwarves really been protrayed better? They’ve been turned into opera singers. Beyond that we haven’t seen much of them.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Hasn't she basically been hunting for Sauron for the entire 2nd Age in the Rings of Power show? How would she learn about diplomacy if she's been a soldier in command for hundreds/thousands of years?

She was a princess for thousands of years before the second age.

 

[Batiman]

If

Have the dwarves really been protrayed better? They’ve been turned into opera singers. Beyond that we haven’t seen much of them.

4 episodes in and I think they did the dwarves great. There’s plenty of dwarves scenes already and they’re probably the my favourite scenes. Khazad dum is breathtaking.

 

[Batiman]

Galadriel, given her backstory, would be a challenging character to write for a TV show aimed at the masses. So I was thinking, how would I possibly do it while staying true'ish to the character and also relatable to the viewers? I'd go from the opposite end where she's this unfathomable foreboding god-like being, that's driven by a far higher purpose and motivations. Over the course of the show, we see her slowly connecting and relating with some of her peers (especially the Elves that never went to Valinor), the other races such as the humans and dwarves, and beginning to appreciate their views, their creature comforts, empathise with their struggles etc. Basically a Spock being more humanised by his human crew type of trope.

Ya if Galadriel was some mature elf with no relatable characteristics, it would be like watching a Spock- Mary Sue show which wouldn’t really be a fun watch.

 

[Hardensoul]

Hasn't she basically been hunting for Sauron for the entire 2nd Age in the Rings of Power show? How would she learn about diplomacy if she's been a soldier in command for hundreds/thousands of years?

So you are telling me, she hasn’t come up on anyone village/town/kingdom all that time to talk to people with out any kind of diplomacy? For hundreds to thousands of years?

That just does not make sense! How did she survive all that time! She would’ve made enemies of everyone by that time! The way she acts!

 

[sol_bad]

So you are telling me, she hasn’t come up on anyone village/town/kingdom all that time to talk to people with out any kind of diplomacy? For hundreds to thousands of years?

That just does not make sense! How did she survive all that time! She would’ve made enemies of everyone by that time! The way she acts!

I don't think the Elves would need to speak to people at villages to try and track down Sauron. Did you see where they were at the start of episode 1, thousands of kilometers away from any other intelligent life form. They are stronger than humans, can survive more more deadly wounds than humans, can handle more extreme temperatures than humans and can probably last much longer without food.

 

[Hardensoul]

I don't think the Elves would need to speak to people at villages to try and track down Sauron. Did you see where they were at the start of episode 1, thousands of kilometers away from any other intelligent life form. They are stronger than humans, can survive more more deadly wounds than humans, can handle more extreme temperatures than humans and can probably last much longer without food.

What does elves being stronger and live longer has anything to do with detective work? That’s basically what she’s suppose to be doing to find Sauron! No villagers would’ve seen anything?

Take Bronwyn for example who just killed an Orc! If Galadriel just happen to come near Bronwyn house! Right after that! So Galadriel would just shrug! I don’t need to talk to her and just go pass Bronwyn house!

Is that the scenario you are telling me?

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

I'd be interested to hear what authors or fiction you've encountered that have interesting immortal characters that actually act their age? Off the top of my head, there is vampire-related fiction, but vampires are lustful, animalistic beings compelled by a hunger for blood (which is a far cry from the lust-free Elves in Tolkien lore). If you look at other sources of myth like the norse or greek gods, they act more or less like humans regardless of their age.

R Daneel Olivaw. His immortal nature and overseeing quality makes some comparison with angels and Tolkien elves. In that they are all limited in their free will, they have a role in the greater order that acts as an anchor for their immortality, but are capable of changes in profound moments.

The human qualities given immortals are a struggle to contend with and without them their representation would get too abstract.

 

[sol_bad]

What does elves being stronger and live longer has anything to do with detective work? That’s basically what she’s suppose to be doing to find Sauron! No villagers would’ve seen anything?

Take Bronwyn for example who just killed an Orc! If Galadriel just happen to come near Bronwyn house! Right after that! So Galadriel would just shrug! I don’t need to talk to her and just go pass Bronwyn house!

Is that the scenario you are telling me?

It's not the scenario I'm telling you, the orcs in Bronwyn's town are one of the first sightings of orcs in thousands of years.
At the start of the second age, majority of the population believe there are no more orcs, no more Sauron, no more Morgoth. Three to four hundred years after the start of the second age, we'd already be 4-5 generations in with the humans. And maybe at that point in time Galadriel did talk to humans, but by the 5th generation of humans, at that point in time, if humans haven't had any information about orcs/Sauron, why would you continue to waste your time with them?

It's easy to assume she would have spent far more time on her own with her soldiers than she did with humans. The time she spent with humans would have been a fraction of her lifespan.
Hence, why I'm saying she is bad at diplomacy, because she has barely had to use those skills.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Ya if Galadriel was some mature elf with no relatable characteristics, it would be like watching a Spock- Mary Sue show which wouldn’t really be a fun watch.

Now instead of Spock Mary-Sue, we have a Karen Mary-Sue.

 

[Artoris]

I'd say that the appeal of Tolkien's work is not necessarily in the characterization. Compared to other great works of literature, the characters take a back seat to the world building, landscape description and the beauty of the language itself.
Although he did write about immortal characters, they aren't really fully fleshed out to the degree that we actually understand how they deal with their immortality. There's this beautifully written bleak scene in TTT where Elrond describes to Arwen the consequences of choosing a human as her husband (pasted below). The thing is, this is actually what happens as Arwen gets married to Aragorn, but exactly how she deals with the feelings grief, loneliness, alienation, abandonment, boredom, you name it, that will come her way is left unclear. Does she simply not accumulate these feelings? How does she deal with seeing generations of people being born and dying again? Is she still capable of attaching herself emotionally to new people after experiencing loss time and time again? How does she not become jaded and reclusive?

This is not very important to the LOTR narrative, but it becomes more important when writing for Galadriel in ROP as you are going to be spending a significant amount of time with her, and it needs to be established how her inner motivations work. What the writers of the ROP series did is just bypass that problem by giving her a more human-like character that still has shit to learn and growing up to do, which is IMHO a defensible choice given you want the audience to be able to relate to her.

"What the writers of the ROP series did is just bypass that problem by giving her a more human-like character that still has shit to learn and growing up to do, which is IMHO a defensible choice given you want the audience to be able to relate to her."

The writers made her like they did because they are not capable writing like Tolkien, like a top elf character but also taking account of today's politics.
This is just the best they could manage.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

It's not the scenario I'm telling you, the orcs in Bronwyn's town are one of the first sightings of orcs in thousands of years.

I think you mean hundreds of years, I would guess 100-200 years.

 

[Batiman]

Now instead of Spock Mary-Sue, we have a Karen Mary-Sue.

Nah. I’m not sure where this comes from? I’ve seen the complaints earlier and just finished the 4 episodes today. Not seeing that at all really. Just really determined and might come off a bit rude to people. Like the queen for example

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Nah. I’m not sure where this comes from? I’ve seen the complaints earlier and just finished the 4 episodes today. Not seeing that at all really. Just really determined and might come off a bit rude to people. Like the queen for example

Did you miss the number of times she wanted to see the manager? Like wanting to see Gil-Galad when talking to Elrond (she asked twice as well). She asked to see the king of numenor when talking to the queen regent. And I am sure there was another instance.

So, I don’t see how you don’t see it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Galadriel, given her backstory, would be a challenging character to write for a TV show aimed at the masses. So I was thinking, how would I possibly do it while staying true'ish to the character and also relatable to the viewers? I'd go from the opposite end where she's this unfathomable foreboding god-like being, that's driven by a far higher purpose and motivations. Over the course of the show, we see her slowly connecting and relating with some of her peers (especially the Elves that never went to Valinor), the other races such as the humans and dwarves, and beginning to appreciate their views, their creature comforts, empathise with their struggles etc. Basically a Spock being more humanised by his human crew type of trope.

Of course, the fact is, Galadriel was never supposed to be a main character. Therefore, anyone trying to make her as such was always going to have to break Tolkein’s characterisation, or present someone pretty one dimensional.

 

[Kimahri]

I'd say that the appeal of Tolkien's work is not necessarily in the characterization. Compared to other great works of literature, the characters take a back seat to the world building, landscape description and the beauty of the language itself.
Although he did write about immortal characters, they aren't really fully fleshed out to the degree that we actually understand how they deal with their immortality. There's this beautifully written bleak scene in TTT where Elrond describes to Arwen the consequences of choosing a human as her husband (pasted below). The thing is, this is actually what happens as Arwen gets married to Aragorn, but exactly how she deals with the feelings grief, loneliness, alienation, abandonment, boredom, you name it, that will come her way is left unclear. Does she simply not accumulate these feelings? How does she deal with seeing generations of people being born and dying again? Is she still capable of attaching herself emotionally to new people after experiencing loss time and time again? How does she not become jaded and reclusive?

This is not very important to the LOTR narrative, but it becomes more important when writing for Galadriel in ROP as you are going to be spending a significant amount of time with her, and it needs to be established how her inner motivations work. What the writers of the ROP series did is just bypass that problem by giving her a more human-like character that still has shit to learn and growing up to do, which is IMHO a defensible choice given you want the audience to be able to relate to her.

Hsve you read any of Tolkien's books?

 

[Melon Husk]

Elves taking our jerbs

Episode 4, yikes... Real world issues creeping into the story is a red flag for the writing going forward. Bad vibes of the Kurtzman kind.

Why is there so much music? This show is like they're playing Lord of the Rings movies at 3x speed.

So much this. Everything feels fast-forwarded which is insane if there are going to be 5 seasons.
This season could have focused on hobbits and Southlands. Galadriel could feature in 1 scene in every episode.
Season 2: Elves and dwarves, less of hobbits and Southlands (Southlands being the main arc for 5 seasons)
Season 3: Numenor
and so on, I don't know how many locations there are left.

 

[Konnor]

What the writers of the ROP series did is just bypass that problem by giving her a more human-like character that still has shit to learn and growing up to do, which is IMHO a defensible choice given you want the audience to be able to relate to her.

I swear I've read this excuse every single time Hollywood creates yet another annoying, entitled Mary Sue that acts like a spoiled brat and every single time the brat remains obnoxious throughout the show or franchise. Have you ever considered that these spoiled brat characters act like that because they're written by spoiled brats who consider the behavior normal or "empowering"?

 

[FunkMiller]

What Rings Of Power should have done is concentrate on starting the story with a protagonist the audience can readily and easily identify with (i.e: someone relatively 'normal') and then bring in these more powerful, other-worldly characters like Galadriel as the story progresses. That way you have an invested audience right from the get-go, who have formed an emotional attachment to a recognisable character, so that as you begin to introduce the more fantastical and strange elements, there's always a foundation that the audience can continue to relate to.

...that sound fucking familiar to anyone?

 

[AJUMP23]

Of course, the fact is, Galadriel was never supposed to be a main character. Therefore, anyone trying to make her as such was always going to have to break Tolkein’s characterisation, or present someone pretty one dimensional.

They should have her break the 4th wall just to explain stuff to the viewer and crack jokes.

 

[Konnor]

They should have her break the 4th wall just to explain stuff to the viewer and crack jokes.

You know what would really expand her character? Twerking.

 

[AJUMP23]

You know what would really expand her character? Twerking.

I looked for morfydd clark twerking, and found nothing. She has some dignity.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

What Rings Of Power should have done is concentrate on starting the story with a protagonist the audience can readily and easily identify with (i.e: someone relatively 'normal') and then bring in these more powerful, other-worldly characters like Galadriel as the story progresses. That way you have an invested audience right from the get-go, who have formed an emotional attachment to a recognisable character, so that as you begin to introduce the more fantastical and strange elements, there's always a foundation that the audience can continue to relate to.

...that sound fucking familiar to anyone?