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[Bisnic]

Sure. I used this. But there are some times the lack of quality shaders will make the face weird, but that happens since ME1.

Thanks, but i think im missing something, where do i put that tpf file? Do i need some software to install it to the game?

 

[Ganzlinger]

Thanks, but i think im missing something, where do i put that tpf file? Do i need some software to install it to the game?

p.m.

 

[Patryn]

Does anyone know how to write sentient AI without making everything into a Pinocchio metaphor? Honest question.

I'm not a huge Sci-fi buff, but practically every time I've seen the subject tackled it comes down to that.

Look up the Culture series. While it doesn't necessarily have sentient AI as the core plotline, it's there, and it's definitely not the Pinocchio metaphor.

 

[EatChildren]

You mean ME2 Legion.

Even though Rannoch is one of the better parts of ME3, the resolution to the Geth subplot(if you side with them or broker peace) is really boring.

Correct. And like many of the narrative hooks, ME3 went and fucked it all up. Reading Chris' posts is depressing. What a cockup.

 

[The Artisan]

I'm laughing so hard about Emily. never knew how they ended her. "died on twitter" is an incredible way to go out in 2015 lmao

wait, what?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

wait, what?

Read the part about ME3.

 

[oneils]

I kind of hope they make another trilogy that has a central cast of characters that you play all of the way through with. I also hope that the playable character is another "Shepard" type character that you play in each instalment (the same protagonist in each installment).

These are the main reasons why I found the mass effect trilogy so compelling and the dragon age series kind of meh. None of the characters in dragon ever really left a lasting impression on me.

Other than that, Im game for anything.

Edit

Correct. And like many of the narrative hooks, ME3 went and fucked it all up. Reading Chris' posts is depressing. What a cockup.

Happen to have a link to these posts?

 

[Kas]

I thought Hale's forced deep inflection as femShep was awful and was rightfully left out of the marketing for the trilogy. Sounds like a 7th grade boy trying to talk tough sometimes.

Plus none of the character models compare in quality to the captured model for default maleShep so in the first two games femShep and custom maleShep looks like playdoh getting baked, and the added ME3 femShep still doesn't look like it was based on anything real (since it wasn't).

https://youtu.be/wktw5GvCT1E?t=13m2s

I 110% agree. I tried to start a playthrough as her and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't take her seriously at all and it killed it for me

 

[EatChildren]

Happen to have a link to these posts?

https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...le-on-the-ai-characters-and-the-reapers.4229/

 

[oneils]

https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...le-on-the-ai-characters-and-the-reapers.4229/

Awesome, thanks.

Aaaand, stop linking to play through videos guys! Every time I watch one I have to play the game again. That's not so bad, I guess heh .

 

[DOWN]

wait, what?

They said the emily character died on twitter to make room for Chobot

I hope my obituary says I died on neogaf

 

[Toa TAK]

I agree with you. Her concept is great, but the execution was not, though. Thankfully there are some texture mods that make her face a lot cleaner:

<3

Not too shabby. Was a fan of the freckles, though.

 

[The Artisan]

Read the part about ME3.

They said the emily character died on twitter to make room for Chobot

I hope my obituary says I died on neogaf

well. i didn't get to see much of emily wong's character being that she was in Me1 only for me (was she ever in Me2 through any Me1-->Me2 save files?) but the common consensus seems to be that she was a better character than jessica chobot.

I agree with you. Her concept is great, but the execution was not, though. Thankfully there are some texture mods that make her face a lot cleaner:

<3

is that default femshep? she looks pretty good there.

 

[chiliboy]

Looks almost like the same fake listing that was on Latin American site a year or more ago. I'd say that's a bad sign for that listing.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Xbox-One-Mass-Effect-Trilogy-Listed-By-Retailer-63713.html

Ah Hopefully it will be released sometime..

 

[Toa TAK]

https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...le-on-the-ai-characters-and-the-reapers.4229/

This is incredible.

Would've loved to see his view on the ending.

 

[Patryn]

It sounds interesting, but it sounds like he still wanted them walking down the whole path of "The Reapers are misunderstood, and it's all this shades of grey thing."

I really wish we could have just had a world where the Reapers were never explained, and where they were just pure evil.

Cthulu is most interesting when he's the most mysterious, and that's what the Reapers are: Space Cthulu.

At least it does reinforce the fact that a lot of people at Bioware are in love with certain images and force the plot around them, even when it doesn't make sense. Reading about how Legion's writer hated the whole obsession with Shepard angle makes the conversation with Legion where you talk about it make a lot more sense.

Bah. The whole thing just continues to remind me how much I despise ME2's main plot.

Spoiler

At least I still have my own FAN FICTION thought in my head about how ME2 should have been about Cerberus (as the evil black ops org it was in ME1) infiltrating the Alliance and, later, the Council using indoctrination tech it studied from Sovereign's remains, and then dismantling the two organizations from the inside out. Could have even had an equally interesting teaser image where instead of having Shepard being KIA, have it be that she's now the Galaxy's Most Wanted, as she goes on the run from the Cerberus-run Alliance to the Terminus Systems and has to assemble a ragtag team of mercs and scum to take down Cerberus. End with her being successful, but Cerberus have now opened the way for the Reapers to come, and they've also dismantled most of your support organizations.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Not too shabby. Was a fan of the freckles, though.

It has freckles, but in that scene isn't much noticeable.

is that default femshep? she looks pretty good there.

yep.

 

[Daemul]

This is incredible.

Would've loved to see his view on the ending.

I'm looking through the thread where Chris originally made his posts about EDI, Legion and the Geth, and though I haven't found anything about his views on the ending, since at the point I'm at he has said he hasn't played the game, but I did find a post early in the thread where he talks about the original ending for the series.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=21953.0

You need to sign up to the forum to read the Spoiler tags

I haven't watched the endings yet (I'm not going to play the game, because being the sort of OCD I am, I'll just end up throwing juvenile tantrums over every physics violation, canon retcon, and ship painted the wrong color), so I don't know what ended up in the final version. When I left, the Big Reveal was going to be that dark energy is destroying the universe (the "premature aging" of Haestrom in ME2 is because the compressive force of gravity is no longer balancing the explosive force of fusion), and the Reapers are trying to stop it. They absorb some races because - despite millions of years of computer-speed thinking on the outskirts of the galaxy - they still haven't figured out how, so they need fresh perspectives.

So the Reapers were secretly good guys trying to end the threat of dark energy by scattering dark energy based artifacts all over the galaxy for young races to find, reverse engineer, and use. In hopes that they find a species who can fix the problem they've spend 37+ million years thinking about.

If that's no longer the story, I am fervently grateful.

Agreed Chris, the Dark Energy plot had me rolling around in laughter at how dumb it was.

This series was never going to have a good ending, it was doomed from the start.

 

[Toa TAK]

I'd still prefer it over what we got, extended or not.

But yeah, it's kind of a bummer to see that this trilogy's writer's couldn't come up with a good ending. Man what a shame.

 

[Zolo]

Yeah. I always enjoyed reading Chris's takes on parts of Mass Effect. I also think it's a shame they didn't end up going with his interpretation on the Geth Storyline as well. As far as the ending goes, I agree that from the looks of things, it was never going to end well whether they went with the original ending or the one we got.

 

[Mivey]

I'd still prefer it over what we got, extended or not.

But yeah, it's kind of a bummer to see that this trilogy's writer's couldn't come up with a good ending. Man what a shame.

Maybe they never thought it could turn into a huge trilogy, or simply that people would never care so much about it.

Whatever they come up with for the new Mass Effect is probably going to play it as safe as possible. Probably a cliched good ending where everyone is happy and nothing substantial has been achieved.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

well. i didn't get to see much of emily wong's character being that she was in Me1 only for me (was she ever in Me2 through any Me1-->Me2 save files?) but the common consensus seems to be that she was a better character than jessica chobot.
is that default femshep? she looks pretty good there.

The issue was Chobot herself. There was absolutely no reason for Chobot to be in the game. She has no voice acting talent and people (like me) saw it as IGN ass kissing.

I can't think of any other good reason to include her, other than sucking up.

In otherwords it's not so much that people loved Emily Wong, it's just that people hated Chobot and it since her character (Dianna Allers) was identical to Wong it made sense for fans to say Wong should be there.

 

[Patryn]

Maybe they never thought it could turn into a huge trilogy, or simply that people would never care so much about it.

Whatever they come up with for the new Mass Effect is probably going to play it as safe as possible. Probably a cliched good ending where everyone is happy and nothing substantial has been achieved.

The problem is that they planned each game like it was the only one they had to worry about.

There is a way to provide a satisfying and self-contained adventure, while at the same time not set yourself up for failure in later games.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Maybe they never thought it could turn into a huge trilogy, or simply that people would never care so much about it.

Whatever they come up with for the new Mass Effect is probably going to play it as safe as possible. Probably a cliched good ending where everyone is happy and nothing substantial has been achieved.

No. People don't want a happy ending. People want an ending that shows the impact if their choices, such that if you make good decisions you get a good ending and if you make bad decisions you get a bad one.

 

[Ganzlinger]

If was Naomi Kyle instead of Chobot I wouldn't mind. I would probably have dumped Ash. lol

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Agreed Chris, the Dark Energy plot had me rolling around in laughter at how dumb it was.

This series was never going to have a good ending, it was doomed from the start.

This.

I really don't get why some people are so hung up on the Dark Energy idea. I understand the impulse to assume, "Anything else would have been better than what we got," but when you actually read about what the Dark Energy idea was? No, this would not have been better than what we got. It's even dumber than what we got.

 

[Zolo]

The problem is that they planned each game like it was the only one they had to worry about.

There is a way to provide a satisfying and self-contained adventure, while at the same time not set yourself up for failure in later games.

Mass Effect 1 was a great set-up game ending with the discovery of the reapers, how they're coming, and knowing that the council now acknowledges the threat of them. Then, we get a sequel about bugs who's storyline is taken care of in ME2 and characters who can all die in it. It seems ME2's main purpose as far as the main storyline goes was to expand Cerberus and a few of the story threads from the characters' missions.

 

[Mivey]

The problem is that they planned each game like it was the only one they had to worry about.

There is a way to provide a satisfying and self-contained adventure, while at the same time not set yourself up for failure in later games.

No. People don't want a happy ending. People want an ending that shows the impact if their choices, such that if you make good decisions you get a good ending and if you make bad decisions you get a bad one.

I'm guessing they couldn't find a way to tie that in with the "organics against synthetics" theme they were going for in the ending. Take the cure for the genophage for example. Sure, that might change the alliegance of the krogan, but will it truly matter for the question of whether or not to pick the synthesis ending?

The franchise is simply missing a coherent idea that ties everything together. Beyond having some space adventures and fighting some mysterious bad guys, at least.

This was BioWare first attempt at writing a multiple game spanning story. Excempting maybe the Baldurs Gate franchise. But that BioWare is long since dead.

 

[Bisnic]

The issue was Chobot herself. There was absolutely no reason for Chobot to be in the game. She has no voice acting talent and people (like me) saw it as IGN ass kissing.

I can't think of any other good reason to include her, other than sucking up.

In otherwords it's not so much that people loved Emily Wong, it's just that people hated Chobot and it since her character (Dianna Allers) was identical to Wong it made sense for fans to say Wong should be there.

I would have prefered to have that punching bag reporter lady instead of Emily Wong or Chobot. Would have been the better choice. Would have nice excuses to punch her after every missions when she try to downplay your victories.

Punching bag reporter : "So you cured the Genophage huh? How do you think people on Earth feel right now? That Commander Shepard unleashed another murderous group on them on top of the Reapers? Wha..."
Shepard : "I had enough of your bullshit!" *punch reporter*

 

[Patryn]

Mass Effect 1 was a great set-up game ending with the discovery of the reapers, how they're coming, and knowing that the council now acknowledges the threat of them. Then, we get a sequel about bugs who's storyline is taken care of in ME2 and characters who can all die in it. It seems ME2's main purpose as far as the main storyline goes was to expand Cerberus and a few of the story threads from the characters' missions.

I didn't want to call out Mass Effect 2 by name, but yeah.

My opinion on that game still stands as this: Seen as an isolated game, it's excellent.

Seen as the middle chapter of a trilogy, it's horrible.

That's part of why I hope they're not planning another trilogy. They suck at it.

 

[TC McQueen]

I'm guessing they couldn't find a way to tie that in with the "organics against synthetics" theme they were going for in the ending.

The organics against synthetics thing is a minor theme Casey Hudson and Mac Walters decided to make into the core element of the ending after the script leak.

 

[anexanhume]

https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...le-on-the-ai-characters-and-the-reapers.4229/

He was always a treat to talk to back on pre BSN forums. I would love to see what ME would have been had he had a more prominent role in the main story arcs.

 

[Jamaro85]

https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...le-on-the-ai-characters-and-the-reapers.4229/

Thanks, this is an amazing read after having just finished another ME2 playthrough recently.

 

[Bisnic]

Mass Effect 1 was a great set-up game ending with the discovery of the reapers, how they're coming, and knowing that the council now acknowledges the threat of them. Then, we get a sequel about bugs who's storyline is taken care of in ME2 and characters who can all die in it. It seems ME2's main purpose as far as the main storyline goes was to expand Cerberus and a few of the story threads from the characters' missions.

The fact that the council went from "Yes, the Reapers threat is real" at the end of ME1 to "Reapers? Lol, doesn't exist!" in ME2 still disappoint me when thinking about it.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This.

I really don't get why some people are so hung up on the Dark Energy idea. I understand the impulse to assume, "Anything else would have been better than what we got," but when you actually read about what the Dark Energy idea was? No, this would not have been better than what we got. It's even dumber than what we got.

I'm looking through the thread where Chris originally made his posts about EDI, Legion and the Geth, and though I haven't found anything about his views on the ending, since at the point I'm at he has said he hasn't played the game, but I did find a post early in the thread where he talks about the original ending for the series.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=21953.0

You need to sign up to the forum to read the Spoiler tags



Agreed Chris, the Dark Energy plot had me rolling around in laughter at how dumb it was.

This series was never going to have a good ending, it was doomed from the start.

I find it funny how you guys call it dumb when you have absolutely NO idea how it would have played out. It actually sounds pretty interesting.

Although, I am not a fan of the notion that the Reapers were really the good guys all along.

 

[Zolo]

The fact that the council went from "Yes, the Reapers threat is real" at the end of ME1 to "Reapers? Lol, doesn't exist!" in ME2 still disappoint me when thinking about it.

Getting the ending where you have Shepard state that s/he let the council die, so that humans could take domination over the council is also pretty hilarious. ME1 jerk Shepard is ultimate jerk.

 

[Ralemont]

I find it funny how you guys call it dumb when you have absolutely NO idea how it would have played out. It actually sounds pretty interesting.

The idea that Dark Energy is destroying the universe is the only interesting thing about it. Everything else is really dumb. Like how the Reapers picked humans because of how genetically diverse they were (biologists everywhere hear this and immediately head to the nearest bar). When you say we have no idea how it would play out you're saying the idea with good execution would work. While that's true, it's also true that a better idea with good execution would be a lot better. The organics vs. synthetics theme is much more ingrained into the story of the trilogy (contrary to what someone said above, they've thought it was the main theme since ME1's development) than the Dark Energy acceleration theme, and with good execution and planning would have been better than the Dark Energy ending.

 

[Patryn]

Again, the best ending would still have been "The Reapers are unknowable evil. You'll never understand them. Now go blow the shit out of them!"

 

[prag16]

The fact that the council went from "Yes, the Reapers threat is real" at the end of ME1 to "Reapers? Lol, doesn't exist!" in ME2 still disappoint me when thinking about it.

Yeah, that definitely never sat right with me... the whole dynamic with the alliance/council was absurd. In ME2, on first playthrough the FIRST thing I did was go to the Citadel to talk to Anderson. So dumb that it's basically just lol gtfo of here, cerberus d-bag.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I still think they made a mistake trying to shoehorn the series into a trilogy when the first game just didn't support it. A more... I hesitate to say "episodic" because that has very specific connotations in gaming, but maybe "ongoing" fits? Like the old movie serials.

 

[Patryn]

Yeah, that definitely never sat right with me... the whole dynamic with the alliance/council was absurd. In ME2, on first playthrough the FIRST thing I did was go to the Citadel to talk to Anderson. So dumb that it's basically just lol gtfo of here, cerberus d-bag.

The Council were forced to be idiots to justify why Shepard stayed and worked with Cerberus.

Bioware wanted a cool teaser about how Shepard was dead, and they wanted Shepard working with Cerberus, so they forced those plot points in regardless of whether they made any sense or fit anything.

Even Shepard went idiot for a time when she just takes the Illusive Man's word that her former team is unable to help instead of actually looking into things herself.

It's similar to how they shoved the Rachni into ME3 regardless of your ME1 actions.

I still think they made a mistake trying to shoehorn the series into a trilogy when the first game just didn't support it. A more... I hesitate to say "episodic" because that has very specific connotations in gaming, but maybe "ongoing" fits? Like the old movie serials.

I definitely think the first game would have supported a trilogy. It was ME2 that they fumbled the ball. Bioware has basically admitted that they didn't really think of ME2 as being part of a trilogy and instead treated it as its own thing, hence them screwing themselves over with the Suicide Mission and the weak main plot that doesn't advance anything.

 

[shinobi602]

Can't believe people actually thought it'd be skipping PC lol.

 

[prag16]

Again, the best ending would still have been "The Reapers are unknowable evil. You'll never understand them. Now go blow the shit out of them!"

Eh. Would have felt like kind of a cop out in my opinion. Of course with the benefit of hindsight I'd prefer that over what we got, but in general, I wouldn't have been too keen on this approach.

 

[Patryn]

Eh. Would have felt like kind of a cop out in my opinion. Of course with the benefit of hindsight I'd prefer that over what we got, but in general, I wouldn't have been too keen on this approach.

What needs to be explained about them? They work best if you don't explain them.

I mean, isn't one of the best scenes in Mass Effect Sovereign basically saying that you can't understand them?

It's the classic Monster Behind the Door scenario. It's not knowing what's on the other side that makes things truly scary. Once it's defined, it loses a lot of its magic.

 

[Toa TAK]

I'm in total agreement with Patryn on this one. There's a fetish for people to always want to uncover the mystery, but very rarely can they ever deliver. I'm tired of that bullshit. The Reapers being space squid out of Lovecraft's fucked up inspiration should've been the end of it.

It's total Terminator status. You can't reason with it, it doesn't hold a grudge, it just knows it has to do it's job and doesn't see anything inherently wrong with that.

 

[prag16]

What needs to be explained about them? They work best if you don't explain them.

I mean, isn't one of the best scenes in Mass Effect Sovereign basically saying that you can't understand them?

It's the classic Monster Behind the Door scenario. It's not knowing what's on the other side that makes things truly scary. Once it's defined, it loses a lot of its magic.

Sure, in a horror film. But with regard to Mass Effect, agree to disagree. To me it would have felt like a major copout if they left the Reapers completely unexplained.

 

[Bisnic]

Sure, in a horror film. But with regard to Mass Effect, agree to disagree. To me it would have felt like a major copout if they left the Reapers completely unexplained.

I'm curious, how would you have done it compared to Bioware? What would have been a better reason for Reapers to wipe all advanced organic life every 50k years if Bioware decided to stick with "RAWR, I R EVIL UNKNOWN MACHINE."?

Not saying Bioware's final decision was the best they could have done, but still...I'm curious what you and other fans would have prefered. Personally, i have no idea what I was expecting at the time.

 

[Mivey]

Sure, in a horror film. But with regard to Mass Effect, agree to disagree. To me it would have felt like a major copout if they left the Reapers completely unexplained.

If they left out the whole "save organics from synthetics" things, but still alluded that the Reapers were created from an even older race for some unkown reason, that would actually work really well IMO. Answers a few question in regard to their origin, but leaves more open to interpretation. Classic Sci-Fi.

 

[Daemul]

No. People don't want a happy ending. People want an ending that shows the impact if their choices, such that if you make good decisions you get a good ending and if you make bad decisions you get a bad one.

Lol, hell no, ain't nobody want that shitty and shallow game design. Bioware did well in avoiding that trap and actually made sure that players had to choose an ending or lose the game. People clamoured online for ages that they wanted hard choices in the trilogy with no easy way out, and Bioware gladly obliged.

The organics against synthetics thing is a minor theme Casey Hudson and Mac Walters decided to make into the core element of the ending after the script leak.

Nope, wrong, it was one of the biggest themes of the series and it was the entire basis of the Quarian vs Geth arc.

I find it funny how you guys call it dumb when you have absolutely NO idea how it would have played out. It actually sounds pretty interesting.

Although, I am not a fan of the notion that the Reapers were really the good guys all along.

The entire Dark Energy plot rested on the basis of humanity being super special and the Reapers and Co unironically looking to solve a problem which they were helping to perpetuate. It was amazingly dumb. But don't just take my word for it, read what Chris has to say about it,

I opposed it for several reasons:

1) The Reapers become good guys. We were criticized for de-evilling the rachni and krogan in ME1, and Cerberus in ME2. After ME2 was released, people would realize that we'd also redeemed the geth and (in the last moments) the Collectors. More than once we saw comments to the effect of "is there any group BioWare won't change to be tragically misunderstood?". I don't think it would have gone over well if we'd made the main antagonists misunderstood good guys, and implied that Shepard was a short-sighted dolt for opposing them. And it also opens the question, "Instead of wiping everyone out, why didn't they just show up and say, 'Hey guys, we've got this problem. Any ideas?'" instead of blowing everyone up.

2) Thousands of city-size machines thinking about the problem at computer speed for 37+ million years... and they still need our help figuring it out?

3) The best way to halt the spread of dark energy "decay" is... by rigging the galaxy to ensure that every species that achieves space flight generates tons and tons of dark energy?

It just didn't work for me. It required too many massive coincidences and leaps of logic.

The idea that Dark Energy is destroying the universe is the only interesting thing about it. Everything else is really dumb. Like how the Reapers picked humans because of how genetically diverse they were (biologists everywhere hear this and immediately head to the nearest bar). When you say we have no idea how it would play out you're saying the idea with good execution would work. While that's true, it's also true that a better idea with good execution would be a lot better. The organics vs. synthetics theme is much more ingrained into the story of the trilogy (contrary to what someone said above, they've thought it was the main theme since ME1's development) than the Dark Energy acceleration theme, and with good execution and planning would have been better than the Dark Energy ending.

This right here.

Again, the best ending would still have been "The Reapers are unknowable evil. You'll never understand them. Now go blow the shit out of them!"

Eh, yeah, no.

 

[prag16]

I'm curious, how would you have done it compared to Bioware? What would have been a better reason for Reapers to wipe all advanced organic life every 50k years if Bioware decided to stick with "RAWR, I R EVIL UNKNOWN MACHINE."?

Not saying Bioware's final decision was the best they could have done, but still...I'm curious what you and other fans would have prefered. Personally, i have no idea what I was expecting at the time.

I guess I should clarify. I'm not a proponent of the xzibit meme; I don't have a problem with the "reaper logic", and the overall concept to me was okay. It's really more the execution (as I'm sure most would agree).

Stripping away a lot of their mystery at the end of a 100 hour trilogy for me doesn't take away from the experience and intrigue of learning more about them previously in the trilogy. I don't think "unknowable evil with no reason given" is a better approach except maybe in the case of horror, especially B-level horror.

I mean, did the relative straightforward-ness of the ending of Interestellar for example (won't say any more than that in terms of specifics so as not to spoil people) ruin the whole movie for people? Maybe some people, but I'd imagine not most.