That would appear to be the case, yeah. Either way that kind of dynamic should be fun, I'm looking forward to learning more about the dad tbh.
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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
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That would appear to be the case, yeah. Either way that kind of dynamic should be fun, I'm looking forward to learning more about the dad tbh.
DA2 did this with class choice.
DeadlyParasite
Member
Well we know the dad is a member of N7 so he's automatically a badass.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'm guessing (well, it was maaaybe given away in the trailer) the Krogan squadmate served alongside Rydad.
DeadlyParasite
Member
The Carnifex Pistol is eternal.
Poodlestrike
Banned
The Carnifex Pistol is eternal.
Why use a handgun when you can use a handcannon?
Plus, being introduced with Johnny Cash. Other characters wish they had that kinda theme song swag.
That too, like god damn, one hell of an introduction.
I'm not 100% sure that it's him, but if it is, he can make one hell of a compelling anti-hero or villain.
Yeah I'm not sure it is him either, I was just going by the armor. I really want it to be, though (for the reason you stated).
Poodlestrike
Banned
Oh man, if that's him, I had a cool thought. Between being a military man (and an N7 to boot, as both a sign of in-universe prestige and a callback to Shepard), plus that scene with him and the Krogan, what if the dad is a kind of "hard choices" figure that we end up pursuing? Not even as a villain, necessarily, just as someone going rogue, taking drastic measures. Couples kind of nicely with the music choice, an old-school cowboy.
DevilDog
Member
I hope they don't bring ''western'' music like johny cash in andromeda, I hated it in Firefly.
I never understood why N7 carries weight for Bioware and some fans. It's something that barely came up in the trilogy and is completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. If it wasn't for the fan art I would have never noticed.
I never understood why N7 carries weight for Bioware and some fans. It's something that barely came up in the trilogy and is completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. If it wasn't for the fan art I would have never noticed.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I'd like to believe that the dad isn't a villain, that's what they want us to think and it seems kind of cliche.
I'm expecting some kind of story twist where he goes rogue for the right reasons, or is investigating some problem while you explore the galaxy and you occasionally meet and team-up.
What I'm really trying to say is I hope he and your sibling are cool and don't die/go evil.
Doesn't really have to be consequential, it's just kind of a neat thing that the devs and fans latched on to and now seems intertwined with the series. Something you can recognize and say "hey that's Mass Effect". I've been called out for wearing my N7 t-shirt in public, it's a good way to meet other fans.
I'm expecting some kind of story twist where he goes rogue for the right reasons, or is investigating some problem while you explore the galaxy and you occasionally meet and team-up.
What I'm really trying to say is I hope he and your sibling are cool and don't die/go evil.
Doesn't really have to be consequential, it's just kind of a neat thing that the devs and fans latched on to and now seems intertwined with the series. Something you can recognize and say "hey that's Mass Effect". I've been called out for wearing my N7 t-shirt in public, it's a good way to meet other fans.
I rewatched the video and yeah... I'm 99% sure it's him. Either that or someone wearing the exact same armor and armor colours.
edit: Yeah, it's either him or another N7:
Both of these options would be things that I'd be happy with. I guess we'll get more of a gauge for that once we learn his relationship with his children. Is he authoritarian versus close with his kids.
EDIT: I love that scene so much^^^ SO MUCH.
PatThePassive
Member
Did I miss a trailer or something?
I hearing a Heart of Darkness type setup finding a father or sibling and need to see this.
I hearing a Heart of Darkness type setup finding a father or sibling and need to see this.
Mac Walters IIRC spilled the beans in an interview about how the father was the N7 from previous trailers and how your sibling would be in the game.
DevilDog
Member
It's really hard to pinpoint the themes that will be present in Andromeda. I feel like whatever villain they throw our way, they will never surpass the Lovecraftian themed villains like Saren. How do you make a better villain than that?
Will they abandon the horror elements completely and have the father go rogue for things like honor?
So far there is nothing. And I'm glad we're being kept in the Dark, I just need some reassurance that they know what they are doing.
Yeah, I see. I remember going to Scotland for a few weeks and seeing people outside wearing N7 T shirts, it was kinda cool, and I would have met up with them if they didn't look like they haven't had a bath in weeks. :/
PatThePassive
Member
I like the idea I hope we get to customize them or if they are generated to look similar to our MC.
I just want more character creation in games
Yeah this was probably the one time I felt unease.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I think the fact that your dad seemingly has a krogan buddy that looks like Grunt (yes I know it's not him) in that armour is awesome.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah. Leviathan had some good stuff in that vein as well, but the derelict reaper was some super creepy stuff, at least before the shooting started.
In hindsight, my retroactive apathy for Sovereign and my disappointment in the ME3 ending comes from the derelict reaper.
It:
"Even a dead god can still dream"
It:
- shows us that reapers can be destroyed with conventional weapons making the crucible and catalyst shit pointless and asinine
- intimidates us with mood, claustrophobia, video logs, and lovecraftian horror of people going insane rather than a "we so best" speech
"Even a dead god can still dream"
DevilDog
Member
Seeing characters in a vid progressively lose their mind feels too artifical and not subtle enough. SEE THE CLOSER THEY ARE THE MORE SPOOKY THINGS HAPPEN AS YOU CAN SEE IN SUBCATEGORY C VID A.
Lovecraftian elements tend to lose their value the more you draw attention them.
Seeing it on a character as powerful and influential as Saren, and hearing the fear in his voice, all the way up to his
suicide
Way more subtle, way more interesting and in direct connection to the main story.
And it had a proper build up, unlike the illusive man.
DeadlyParasite
Member
Wasn't the whole point of the derelict reaper was that it was killed by an apparent last-ditch shot of a super-powerful weapon from the planet Klendagon or whatever? As in, it wasn't really a conventional weapon that killed it.
You can actually go back in ME1 and look up at the skybox and see the massive trench/crater that the impact made on the planet.
You can actually go back in ME1 and look up at the skybox and see the massive trench/crater that the impact made on the planet.
The game's opening chapter has him murder a fellow specter and go apeshit on the ship. The game is anything but subtle. ME2 showing you people on a dead reaper progressively losing their minds just being there while having you there too is far more powerful.
Wasn't the whole point of the derelict reaper was that it was killed by an apparent last-ditch shot of a super-powerful weapon from the planet Klendagon or whatever? As in, it wasn't really a conventional weapon that killed it.
You can actually go back in ME1 and look up at the skybox and see the massive trench/crater that the impact made on the planet.
I mean that it's not a magic instant-kill button.
The Artisan
Member
and the dad is the...ghost ryder in the sky right?
word. so it's something like what they're doing with Me4 but not exactly the same.
DevilDog
Member
Yes, he was so comically evil and non subtle about it that
he kills himself in the end because he realizes what he has become.
Yar. Whether or not it's executed story-wise similarly is still up in the air. There were issues with DA2 but it did the family dynamic well imo.
I mean, the Illusive Man had this happen over the course of two games. It wasn't great there either.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Wasn't the whole point of the derelict reaper was that it was killed by an apparent last-ditch shot of a super-powerful weapon from the planet Klendagon or whatever? As in, it wasn't really a conventional weapon that killed it.
You can actually go back in ME1 and look up at the skybox and see the massive trench/crater that the impact made on the planet.
That's basically a conventional weapon, it's just a really, really big one.
Yeah the dad is the one in the E3 2015 video.
DeadlyParasite
Member
Not very conventional if only one was made and only one Reaper was visibly destroyed by it.
IMO the whole part about ME3 where you forge alliances, gather resources, make connections seems more geared towards confronting the Reapers in a straight up fight while also developing new weapons and defenses against them- like how ME2 had you build new weapons and shields to survive the Suicide Mission but on a bigger scale. Not to mention building relationships and alliances seems perfectly geared to a structure similar to the suicide mission, and depending on how you approach it, it could have led to different endings without having to require a red/blue/green shenanigans.
edit: I also don't buy critiques that doing so would be too similar to ME2's suicide mission. ME2's endgame was good design and there's honestly nothing wrong with copying, iterating, and refining good endgame design.
edit: I also don't buy critiques that doing so would be too similar to ME2's suicide mission. ME2's endgame was good design and there's honestly nothing wrong with copying, iterating, and refining good endgame design.
DevilDog
Member
I doubt there was time to mass produce such things. Especially when all communications were down. Except from the quantum entaglement devices but those are not enough.
I'm not sure If I made my point clear, it was an obvious choice to show him go apeshit in the spaceship to make you think this is a C-list villain only to pull the rug under you and present him as a complex character later on.
His reasoning behind his actions was truly understandable which was a surprise in itself, and the dialogue between him and shepard was chipping away at his confidence, even if shepard never made any groundbreaking arguments against him.
The illusive man arc was lame. It was as if someone had turned on the indoctrination indicator on his back. With Saren for most of the game you didn't even realize it was happening to him or that indoctrination even existed.
Indoctrination was a mistake. It's nothing but trash. It undermined the central ideological conflict between Saren and the galaxy (his views on organic/synthetic synthesis and submission being preferable to extinction are interesting topics, but unfortunately the standard response from Shepard is, correctly, dude who cares you are brainwashed and clearly being lied to) and threw away TIM angle on human advancement so that he actively hurt the Alliance efforts during ME3. Whereas a nuanced portrayal would have been TIM willingly bringing the topic of a truce/alliance to the Alliance because he cares more about results than pride/grievances. But indoctrination was built up as such a big deal that he had to be sacrificed to the narrative gods.
One reason, by the way, that Andromeda's story could be even more compelling: focusing ME back on ideological conflict instead of brainwashing. It's no secret that this is part of why Tuchanka and Rannoch are the two most compelling plotlines.
One reason, by the way, that Andromeda's story could be even more compelling: focusing ME back on ideological conflict instead of brainwashing. It's no secret that this is part of why Tuchanka and Rannoch are the two most compelling plotlines.
It... didn't stop him from being an Illusive Man level villain though. Simply not knowing that indoctrination was a thing for the first game in the series isn't a virtue of Saren.
Co-sign.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I missed this before.
Boothisman.gif
Eh, that's not really how I draw the line of conventional. It's speculated to be a really huge mass driver, right? So it operates on the same principle as the Avenger, just... more so. Unconventional weapons to me are ones that work differently than their common counterparts, so nukes, biological, chemical, directed energy (to a lesser extent in ME but still).
Yup. I'm okay with the Crucible being the ultimate solution to the Reapers (though I think I'd have done it differently), but they should have had a Suicide Mission style payoff where you get to really feel the impact of your War Score preparations rather than a cutscene and a few lines of dialogue.
Agreed. Indoctrination made for some great creepy moments, but on the whole it did more harm than good.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I just get confused when people get super depressed about the reapers not being some infallible super-beings that Sovereign claimed they were in ME1. As if it's suddenly impossible for them to be beyond the concept of cockiness, lying, and bragging.
Sovereign was undone by it's own hubris and putting all its eggs in one basket (Saren), Harbinger and the Collectors were undone after shit-talking Shepard so much and stirring a ruckus on human colonies. Hell the apex race of leviathans were undone because they believed themselves perfect and their desire to control the lives of organics and synthetics for their super-empire eventually screwed themselves over.
Sovereign was undone by it's own hubris and putting all its eggs in one basket (Saren), Harbinger and the Collectors were undone after shit-talking Shepard so much and stirring a ruckus on human colonies. Hell the apex race of leviathans were undone because they believed themselves perfect and their desire to control the lives of organics and synthetics for their super-empire eventually screwed themselves over.
The ideological battles have probably been consistently the more interesting narrative elements of the series to me. Rannoch, Tuchanka, or even in passing the parts of the Asari republics fighting over whether or not to develop new technologies not reliant on the relays/protheans.
DevilDog
Member
TIM was a bad example of indoctrination, Saren wasn't.
Saren was an example of people losing themselves due to fear/ignorance/depression who give up on what they believed.
You can take out the indoctrination mechanic from the story and you still have a very believable tragic character, because his motives make sense.
When you hear about a race who destroyed thousands of civilizations like yours, and they're coming again to kill everyone you know and love, it's not hard to imagine someone getting pushed over the edge and go ahead and try to strike a deal with them
Wait, he really was like saren only in the end, there was no build up or a good character arc that made it believable.
Also characters work in the context of the game and the storytelling you're applying to it.
Saren works better in the first, because you don't know about the indoctrination mechanic.
In 3 you do, so it's the lamest thing ever seeing the plot twist coming from the 1st hour of the game.
Bet you didn't see it coming in the first though.
Oh they are cocky, but why would Sovereign lie to you? He doesn't even need to talk to you, and even when he does he really says nothing of importance, other than the fact that all the tehcnology and biotics we have are things they created and want us to have.
There's no such thing as a good example of indoctrination- both Saren and Jack Harper started as C-tier villains and ended up killing themselves with equally little development.
Poodlestrike
Banned
But the depression/losing your way story is totally undermined when you have a giant mechanical cuttlefish hijacking your brain.
Saren could have been far more interesting had it been about him legitimately believing that submitting to the singularity is the way to go but it doesn't really work when it turns out to be the result of brain hax.
Edit: Like for both Saren and Harper they could have committed to having these two villains conflicting with you due to their ideological differences rather than ending both conflicts with they were indoctrinated.
Or why DA2 Act 2 is far better than Act 3.
Or why DA:O's non darkspawn plots are more memorable.
Flynn really needs to put some type of hard ban on "corruption, mind control" plots.
Speaking of lovecraft references, over the years I've read multiple times that there was a Lovecraft quote inscribed on the Charon Relay. And for the life of me I can't find a good source.
I've read it here :
and also on the BioWare forums.
I remember reading it on a Mass Effect Wiki, or as a reference on a Cthulhu page, but I've never found an official source.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I don't think they need to be banned, stuff like the derelict Reaper was really cool, and mind control is a sci-fi staple, but they can't hinge the entire plot around it. Just doesn't work.
DevilDog
Member
We'll I'm glad we've reached the point where one of us just says the other is wrong without any arguments. Gives me a perfect chance to stop the conversation right here then.
That is why subtlety is so important and why it got thrown out of the window in ME2 inside the dead reaper. You got put in claustrophobic corridors with zombies popping out of everywhere and with videologs that show the important stages of indoctrinations, all at once.
The reason ME1 indoctrination is better is because it is barely noticable. It has no ''peaks'', just slow progression.
Having Saren have these understandable motives shows how a little push can make someone go so far astray.
At the same time as I saw this, I immediately related with cases of my personal life, where I saw people go in ways I never thought they would just because of small incidents in their lives.
And this is how you make am intersting story about this while keeping the human elements. It's amazing.
Also I apologize if I don't get my points across immediately. English isn't my first language and I'm not at all comfortable with using them at such a high level.
Corruption and mind control can be fine for more minor plots like Legion's question of whether or not they ought to brainwash the heretics or in DAO the choice between Sophia vs Avernus.
Not showing up until virmire and the end isn't really progression. At least Harper had a couple of games to explain why controlling reaper tech is compelling.
Not showing up until virmire and the end isn't really progression. At least Harper had a couple of games to explain why controlling reaper tech is compelling.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'm so glad this is basically a soft reboot.
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