ME2 imo is very much a space cyber-punk thriller. I know people like to call ME2 and 3 analogues to mindless action movies, but I see ME2 as a scifi space cyberpunk thriller above all else. A damn good one too
except for the resurrection with 4 billion space-bucks nonsense
If we're talking songs from ME2 DLC, let me say the main battle theme of Overlord is gorgeous. I really think it's my favorite ME2 song and one of my favorite in the series, honestly.
If we're talking songs from ME2 DLC, let me say the main battle theme of Overlord is gorgeous. I really think it's my favorite ME2 song and one of my favorite in the series, honestly.
ME2 imo is very much a space cyber-punk thriller. I know people like to call ME2 and 3 analogues to mindless action movies, but I see ME2 as a scifi space cyberpunk thriller above all else. A damn good one too
except for the resurrection with 4 billion space-bucks nonsense
I love Kasumi, she's so much fun. There are definitely a few songs from DE:HR that remind me of that sort of "vibe" so to speak. Namely, this one and this one.
I haven't had a chance to play many games lately since I've been so busy, but I've been meaning to get DE:MD and then Dishonored 2 when it comes out (plus by that point we'll have something from Andromeda to discuss). The talk of DE:HR's OST made me look into Mankind Divided's as well. There's a pretty good ambient mix of DE:MD tracks I found on youtube here. You're right though, the soundtrack adds a lot of atmosphere.
EDIT: Here's some timestamps for some good points in the video. There's obv a bunch more but here's a few to show off some diversity - 8:35 17:18 22:47 (I like this one a lot.) 42:11
BioWare needed an action heavy terrorist group as they migrated toward shooter markets and Cerberus was a straw they managed to grasp at from the original game as they tried to tie largely disconnected visions together to make an existing franchise plan into a mainstream hit for a bigger target market
BioWare needed an action heavy terrorist group as they migrated toward shooter markets and Cerberus was a straw they managed to grasp at from the original game as they tried to tie largely disconnected visions together to make an existing franchise plan into a mainstream hit for a bigger target market
You really don't need a terrorist group to make a game more action heavy or casual. You're a bloody specter working for the alliance that more than enough if you want military heroism and stuff blowing up every 5 seconds.
Cerberus was definitely shoehorned into mass effect 3 though. They needed human enemy for combat and fighting the usual mercenary didn't make sense. Unfortunately the story explanation for fighting Cerberus was almost as stupid
Because the series does basically nothing with it. Try to mentally replace Shepard dying with Shepard falling down a hole for 2 years. Is there any difference in the plot?
Paragon Shepard working with Cerberus was always contrived and forced (especially if you're a sole survivor). Which brings me to my next point...
BioWare needed an action heavy terrorist group as they migrated toward shooter markets and Cerberus was a straw they managed to grasp at from the original game as they tried to tie largely disconnected visions together to make an existing franchise plan into a mainstream hit for a bigger target market
If they wanted to cut Shepard off from the Alliance, I always felt an easy way to do it (and continue plot threads from the previous game) would have been to have the Alliance and possibly the Council end up indoctrinated from the pieces of Sovereign. Begin with some action sequence where Shepard discovers some plot to speed up the return of the Reapers and becomes the Galaxy's Most Wanted and thus has to flee to where the Council has no authority: The Terminus Systems.
Marketing then shifts from Shepard: KIA to Shepard: Most Wanted.
At that point it becomes about a Shepard with no resources has to assemble a team on her own from the wretched scum in the Terminus Systems and go off on a Suicide Mission to a heavily fortified facility to stop the plan.
You could end the game by stopping the Project, but have to deal with a Galaxy where the governments have been shattered due to how many are indoctrinated and Shepard's actions, and the imminent arrival of the Reapers.
It's fanficcy, I know, but it hits many of the same beats as ME2, avoids the contrived death, and logically follows the previous game while setting up ME3. Also definitely functions as a darker middle chapter that ME2 fails at being.
For real fanficcy thoughts, I also thought it would be interesting if Sovereign somehow survived as a program in some bit, and the Project brought part of it back in a human-sized body, thus providing a continuing antagonist for the length of the series.
Hopefully you won't miss the drop of the trailer or whatever by too much what with time zones and all.
Really good~
I haven't had a chance to play many games lately since I've been so busy, but I've been meaning to get DE:MD and then Dishonored 2 when it comes out (plus by that point we'll have something from Andromeda to discuss). The talk of DE:HR's OST made me look into Mankind Divided's as well. There's a pretty good ambient mix of DE:MD tracks I found on youtube here. You're right though, the soundtrack adds a lot of atmosphere.
EDIT: Here's some timestamps for some good points in the video. There's obv a bunch more but here's a few to show off some diversity - 8:35 17:18 22:47 (I like this one a lot.) 42:11
Oh, I thought you were going to blow my mind explaining how it didn't fit the thematic elements you posted. Yeah it ends up being a cheap shock and takes away a lot of seriousness. I remember seeing some cut dialogue somewhere between ashley and shepard discussing what happens after death, that was removed.
Because the series does basically nothing with it. Try to mentally replace Shepard dying with Shepard falling down a hole for 2 years. Is there any difference in the plot?
Paragon Shepard working with Cerberus was always contrived and forced (especially if you're a sole survivor). Which brings me to my next point...
Without the main story of mass effect 2, there is no difference to the plot. Actually it makes it better because we have no cerberus,abandoned reaper they just ''happened'' to stumble onto, ressurection of shepard and normandy, human reaper and so on and so forth. Basically everything but the collectors, I really like that they finally showed us what the visions meant from ME1.
I was just asking why the ressurection it didn't fit the cyberpunk/space/thriller elements.
If they wanted to cut Shepard off from the Alliance, I always felt an easy way to do it (and continue plot threads from the previous game) would have been to have the Alliance and possibly the Council end up indoctrinated from the pieces of Sovereign. Begin with some action sequence where Shepard discovers some plot to speed up the return of the Reapers and becomes the Galaxy's Most Wanted and thus has to flee to where the Council has no authority: The Terminus Systems.
Marketing then shifts from Shepard: KIA to Shepard: Most Wanted.Th
At that point it becomes about a Shepard with no resources has to assemble a team on her own from the wretched scum in the Terminus Systems and go off on a Suicide Mission to a heavily fortified facility to stop the plan.
You could end the game by stopping the Project, but have to deal with a Galaxy where the governments have been shattered due to how many are indoctrinated and Shepard's actions, and the imminent arrival of the Reapers.
It's fanficcy, I know, but it hits many of the same beats as ME2, avoids the contrived death, and logically follows the previous game while setting up ME3. Also definitely functions as a darker middle chapter that ME2 fails at being.
For real fanficcy thoughts, I also thought it would be interesting if Sovereign somehow survived as a program in some bit, and the Project brought part of it back in a human-sized body, thus providing a continuing antagonist for the length of the series.
This isn't how indoctrination works, if they were so affected they would become mindless husks like the subjects on Virmire. I do like the idea of including Arrival in the main story, as its a short lived indoctrination in a secluded area.
I really don't know what the writers could have done to make ME2 have a good plot. I can think of several okay ones, but nothing anywhere near the quality of the first.
All the suggestions from users I've seen are too fanficcy.
Sovereign survives in some programm inside of a small device of course, and he indoctrinates all nearby mobile devices and deletes Pokemon GO from everyone's phones wiping out their progress and claiming all the gyms.
Without the main story of mass effect 2, there is no difference to the plot. Actually it makes it better because we have no cerberus,abandoned reaper they just ''happened'' to stumble onto, ressurection of shepard and normandy, human reaper and so on and so forth. Basically everything but the collectors, I really like that they finally showed us what the visions meant from ME1.
I was just asking why the ressurection it didn't fit the cyberpunk/space/thriller elements.
This isn't how indoctrination works, if they were so affected they would become mindless husks like the subjects on Virmire. I do like the idea of including Arrival in the main story, as its a short lived indoctrination in a secluded area.
Shepard dying isn't the main story of ME2. It's not even presented as the reason a paragon Shepard works with Cerberus (they justify it by saying only Cerberus is working to stop the colonies being attacked). It's literally a shock value moment with no payoff that is used to bring Shepard to Cerberus. Honestly, the only good use of the plot is in Citadel.
As for indoctrination, both Saren and the Illusive Man are canonically considered indoctrinated, and neither are like the husks. Javik mentions that indoctrinated Protheans were used as sleeper agents to disable defenses, so indoctrinated people can pass for normal (as we learned in Arrival). Indoctrination is what the plot demands it to be.
Shepard dying isn't the main story of ME2. It's not even presented as the reason a paragon Shepard works with Cerberus (they justify it by saying only Cerberus is working to stop the colonies being attacked). It's literally a shock value moment with no payoff that is used to bring Shepard to Cerberus. Honestly, the only good use of the plot is in Citadel.
As for indoctrination, both Saren and the Illusive Man are canonically considered indoctrinated, and neither are like the husks.
It is part of the main story, isn't it? I mean I always thought it was the combination of him owing them his life and wanting to help the colonies for some reason that made him join cerberus.
Yes but there is a difference between the indoctrinated people onboard the dead reaper and Saren.
And considering the council would have been indoctrinated by the dead reaper wouldn't they have suffered the same fate? It's not like he would be alive to partly indoctrinate them like how Saren was.
It is part of the main story, isn't it? I mean I always thought it was the combination of him owing them his life and wanting to help the colonies for some reason that made him join cerberus.
Yes but there is a difference between the indoctrinated people onboard the dead reaper and Saren.
And considering the council would have been indoctrinated by the dead reaper wouldn't they have suffered the same fate? It's not like he would be alive to partly indoctrinate them like how Saren was.
It's a part, but it's not the crux. You could easily excise Shepard dying and replace it with her missing for 2 years and Cerberus finding her with nearly no other plot alterations needed.
Again, indoctrination serves the plot. People can be as effective as needed. The game doesn't set down hard and fast rules.
Oh, Matriarch Benezia and her followers. Not husks, long-term indoctrination.
I don't even know why they need to isolate you from the Alliance in the first place. You can do the same game with you as a Spectre investigating the Collectors in the Terminus systems. The Alliance just occasionally gets on the phone to pat you on the back or chastise you for lack of progress or whatever. You can even still include lots of Cerberus by having them be one of the important local powers in the far reaches of human space, where the governments are turning a blind eye to their activities since they act as a kind of spearhead / pro human paramilitary group in a place where the Alliance military can't protect the local human colonists in a meaningful way for political and practical reasons. You will work with Cerberus out of necessity to achieve some of your objectives, with the option of collaborating closer or going your own way outside of that.
I think at some point they tried going for the dark-outside the law story with me2, then kind of dropped it somewhere and the stuff that remains makes no sense. Same with Tali's mission about Dark Energy and Mordin's humans have ''generic variation'' dropped plots threads that are scattered around.
It's a part, but it's not the crux. You could easily excise Shepard dying and replace it with her missing for 2 years and Cerberus finding her with nearly no other plot alterations needed.
Again, indoctrination serves the plot. People can be as effective as needed. The game doesn't set down hard and fast rules.
Oh, Matriarch Benezia and her followers. Not husks, long-term indoctrination.
I was reffering to a dead reaper having fatal effects in 2, but whatever, they are never going to go back and fix up the issues in that game so whats the point.
And I doubt they are going to have a great story for the next game, they've been failing at that for nearly a decade.
I'm just going to go play Baldur's gate 2 and see what all the fuss is about.
ME2's opening serves as a method for players to "start over" in terms of levels, character recruitment, etc, while also serving as a jaw-dropping hook. If you ever go into "best game intros ever" threads on GAF or Reddit or anywhere else, Mass Effect 2 is always mentioned multiple times. BioWare wanted a wower opening that was also new player friendly. It worked. /shrug
ME2's opening serves as a method for players to "start over" in terms of levels, character recruitment, etc, while also serving as a jaw-dropping hook. If you ever go into "best game intros ever" threads on GAF or Reddit or anywhere else, Mass Effect 2 is always mentioned multiple times. BioWare wanted a wower opening that was also new player friendly. It worked. /shrug
It worked at the cost of the story and the plot. Shouldn't Bioware of all people respect the writing enough not to sacrifice it for the marketing and rule of cool?
It worked at the cost of the story and the plot. Shouldn't Bioware of all people respect the writing enough not to sacrifice it for the marketing and rule of cool?
I don't feel anything of importance was sacrificed. ME2's main plot isn't weak because of its intro, it's weak because the game is designed around characters and nonlinearity. ThoseDeafMutes asked why they didn't just go the Alliance route for investigating the Collectors: well, because then you don't get characters like Jack, Kasumi, Thane, Zaeed, Grunt. Working for Cerberus and TIM means you get to recruit a diverse cast of characters from all ranges of the moral spectrum. Shepard dying also gives the game an excuse for you to not just re-recruit your entire ME1 crew: most have moved on and some don't trust you since Cerberus was responsible for your revival. And basically what's sacrificed is...that revival and coherence after long-term brain death is infeasible? In a sci-fi game? Hell, they even had some nice narrative/gameplay coherence with you upgrading your new synthetic implaints for stat bonuses.
It worked at the cost of the story and the plot. Shouldn't Bioware of all people respect the writing enough not to sacrifice it for the marketing and rule of cool?
I don't feel anything of importance was sacrificed. ME2's main plot isn't weak because of its intro, it's weak because the game is designed around characters and nonlinearity. ThoseDeafMutes asked why they didn't just go the Alliance route for investigating the Collectors: well, because then you don't get characters like Jack, Kasumi, Thane, Zaeed, Grunt. Working for Cerberus and TIM means you get to recruit a diverse cast of characters from all ranges of the moral spectrum.
Shepard dying also gives the game an excuse for you to not just re-recruit your entire ME1 crew: most have moved on and some don't trust you since Cerberus was responsible for your revival. And basically what's sacrificed is...that revival and coherence after long-term brain death is infeasible? In a sci-fi game? Hell, they even had some nice narrative/gameplay coherence with you upgrading your new synthetic implaints for stat bonuses.
If you kill and bring a character back for a joke on the Citadel, some stat descriptions and some cool marketing you've already sacrificed a lot.
In a game where its predecessor handled story and plot with so much care, it's just a shame to see. You've given the concept of ressurection, life and death and you do nothing with it.
I joined online discussions fairly recently and maybe I missed that era of transitioning for Bioware.
I still have hope left somewhere in my heart that they will focus on writing as much as they did before.
If you kill and bring a character back for a joke on the Citadel, some stat descriptions and some cool marketing you've already sacrificed a lot.
In a game where its predecessor handled story and plot with so much care, it's just a shame to see. You've given the concept of ressurection, life and death and you do nothing with it.
It's not just cool marketing. That's not what I meant when I said they wanted a wow opener. You need to be able to shock your audience to get them invested in a story. ME2's opening shocked me. It has real narrative value. It also provides new players a way to feel on board with Shepard's mental state, which is important for an RPG.
They did do some stuff with Shepard's revival, though most of it is in ME3. It's a shame that one ME3 convo with Ashley got cut.
Does it seem odd to anyone that BioWare hasn't really branched beyond clothing, statues, lithographs, or plushies for merchandise?
We got that one Risk board game variant for Mass Effect but nothing really else. I would've totally bought a Mass Effect board game based around the style of "War of the Ring" where one player plays as the Reapers (has near unlimited supply of ground forces and ships) and one player as the civilizations of the milky way (dwindling non-replenishing supply of forces but has access to powerful hero characters). The goal of the allied forces being to stall the reaper player long enough to complete the crucible and reach Earth much like how in War of the Ring it's to get Frodo to Mount Doom. Probably too late for something like that now though, oh well.
There's no official proper pen&paper RPG either, which is even more weird because the whole game universe works perfectly for one, like Shadowrun and StarWars. Even Dragon Age got a corebook.
It's not just cool marketing. That's not what I meant when I said they wanted a wow opener. You need to be able to shock your audience to get them invested in a story. ME2's opening shocked me. It has real narrative value. It also provides new players a way to feel on board with Shepard's mental state, which is important for an RPG.
They did do some stuff with Shepard's revival, though most of it is in ME3. It's a shame that one ME3 convo with Ashley got cut.
I'm not arguing the immediate effect, as I said I agree with you. The effect it had after the fact was terrible though.
You slowly played through the game realizing how ridiculous it was and how it's just a cheap shock.
Shepard could have just woken up from a coma and it would have had the same effect minus the bad stuff.
ThoseDeafMutes asked why they didn't just go the Alliance route for investigating the Collectors: well, because then you don't get characters like Jack, Kasumi, Thane, Zaeed, Grunt. Working for Cerberus and TIM means you get to recruit a diverse cast of characters from all ranges of the moral spectrum.
None of this is necessarily true, the fact that the investigation takes place in the far reaches of space outside of the authority of the Citadel and far from the main alliance fleets means you have latitude to absolutely take those characters on board. You can have any one of a million excuses as to why some of your old crewmates aren't with you anymore - your old mission is over, so Garrus, Liara, Wrex and Tali parted ways, Ashley/Kaiden got transfered to a top secret project, etc.
Operating outside the law is exactly what Spectres do, and you're both a Spectre and captain of a top secret stealth ship for whom morally shady missions of galactic importance are perfectly suited. Working closely with The Illusive Man because you need to is something that can happen during an officially deniable operation in deep space.
I guess what I'm saying is that the place where the game takes place, and the kind of mission you're on already isolates you from the Alliance to a meaningful extent. Not needing to kill and resurrect Shepard just makes the story a bit tighter and takes out some silliness / out of character stuff for Sole Survivors.
I joined online discussions fairly recently and maybe I missed that era of transitioning for Bioware.
I still have hope left somewhere in my heart that they will focus on writing as much as they did before.
I'm sure their individual authors have wonderful ideas and interesting concepts they'd like to explore and we see glimmers of that all the time e.g. Dragon Age 2's timelapse and unreliable narrator, Mordin giving voice to the moral implications of the genophage, Fen'Harel hiding in plain sight in Inquisition etc.
But those bold ideas are obviously balanced against the pressure of marketing games at AAA scale. The (EA-mandated?) need to please all comers, old and young, new and veteran, proficient and casual, etc. just pulls the story in so many directions, makes it more superficial and favours flash over substance.
I don't think this is the natural order of things (recent counter-examples are Witcher 3 and Harebrain's Shadowrun titles which just plunge you into a deep world/history with little handholding) but BioWare seems committed to a different path.
I also wonder if the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy has an effect; I personally think it was abysmal in execution but can't deny it was the expression of a bold artistic choice. It can't be easy to think outside the box when you might alienate a large part of your audience in the process.
I'm sure their individual authors have wonderful ideas and interesting concepts they'd like to explore and we see glimmers of that all the time e.g. Dragon Age 2's timelapse and unreliable narrator, Mordin giving voice to the moral implications of the genophage, Fen'Harel hiding in plain sight in Inquisition etc.
But those bold ideas are obviously balanced against the pressure of marketing games at AAA scale. The (EA-mandated?) need to please all comers, old and young, new and veteran, proficient and casual, etc. just pulls the story in so many directions, makes it more superficial and favours flash over substance.
I don't think this is the natural order of things (recent counter-examples are Witcher 3 and Harebrain's Shadowrun titles which just plunge you into a deep world/history with little handholding) but BioWare seems committed to a different path.
I also wonder if the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy has an effect; I personally think it was abysmal in execution but can't deny it was the expression of a bold artistic choice. It can't be easy to think outside the box when you might alienate a large part of your audience in the process.
I don't think the Witcher is a particulalry well written or fun game, but what matters is that its full of depth, its hardcore and lots of people love it.
It's so great to see, I hope Bioware learns from this, there are lots of people like me who just cling onto their next well made project. No corner cutting in the narrative, more depth in the mechanics and the script.
And if anything, If Bioware are stubborn enough to stick with the ME3 ending, they should be stubborn enough to create whatever they want without worrying that it won't please everyone.
I'm sure their individual authors have wonderful ideas and interesting concepts they'd like to explore and we see glimmers of that all the time e.g. Dragon Age 2's timelapse and unreliable narrator, Mordin giving voice to the moral implications of the genophage, Fen'Harel hiding in plain sight in Inquisition etc.
But those bold ideas are obviously balanced against the pressure of marketing games at AAA scale. The (EA-mandated?) need to please all comers, old and young, new and veteran, proficient and casual, etc. just pulls the story in so many directions, makes it more superficial and favours flash over substance.
I don't think this is the natural order of things (recent counter-examples are Witcher 3 and Harebrain's Shadowrun titles which just plunge you into a deep world/history with little handholding) but BioWare seems committed to a different path.
I also wonder if the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy has an effect; I personally think it was abysmal in execution but can't deny it was the expression of a bold artistic choice. It can't be easy to think outside the box when you might alienate a large part of your audience in the process.
Well, he's right. They produced an ending that was so wild and divergent that it effectively prevented sequels in the same galaxy. How many studios would make the same choice for a lucrative flagship series?
Also, Andromeda artbook has a release date for March 17th. Artbooks usually contain spoilers and release same-ish as games.
Well, he's right. They produced an ending that was so wild and divergent that it effectively prevented sequels in the same galaxy. How many studios would make the same choice for a lucrative flagship series?
Also, Andromeda artbook has a release date for March 17th. Artbooks usually contain spoilers and release same-ish as games.
Dark Horse's Dragon Age stuff has been moderately well received, afaik, so I'm hopeful. Written (probably not really, but co-written) by the Bioware story guys, set in Andromeda.
Probably something akin to the Redemption or Conviction comics? I wouldn't expect anything truly gamechanging but rather some pre-story or introductions to characters we'll see in Andromeda.
Dark Horse's Dragon Age stuff has been moderately well received, afaik, so I'm hopeful. Written (probably not really, but co-written) by the Bioware story guys, set in Andromeda.
I'm excited for the art book that they are going to put out. I bought DA:I's art book and both "World of Thedas" volumes and they are really great. Andromeda's concept art (albeit cleaned up for print) should be too cool considering it's a new start for the series.
So, the Andromeda artbook's page straight up says it will be released simultaneously with the game. Unless March 21st is some weird placeholder take, it seems safe to pencil in March 21 barring a delay.
So, the Andromeda artbook's page straight up says it will be released simultaneously with the game. Unless March 21st is some weird placeholder take, it seems safe to pencil in March 21 barring a delay.
What mods are recommended for each game? I've only ever played the series on console before so I'm looking forward to replaying and having them look sharp and run smooth. Are the "a lot of textures" downloads for ME2 & 3 a good visual overhaul?
Is there any way to get Pinnacle Station for the steam version of ME1 as well?
What mods are recommended for each game? I've only ever played the series on console before so I'm looking forward to replaying and having them look sharp and run smooth. Are the "a lot of textures" downloads for ME2 & 3 a good visual overhaul?
Is there any way to get Pinnacle Station for the steam version of ME1 as well?
What mods are recommended for each game? I've only ever played the series on console before so I'm looking forward to replaying and having them look sharp and run smooth. Are the "a lot of textures" downloads for ME2 & 3 a good visual overhaul?
Is there any way to get Pinnacle Station for the steam version of ME1 as well?
What mods are recommended for each game? I've only ever played the series on console before so I'm looking forward to replaying and having them look sharp and run smooth. Are the "a lot of textures" downloads for ME2 & 3 a good visual overhaul?
I actually came to this thread specifically to say how amazed I am at my current playthrough of ME2 that is drenched in PC mods.
When ME2 first released, I played it one time on Xbox360 and haven't picked it up since. This year I got back into PC gaming, picked up ME2 during a Steam sale, and fired it up a week ago with some PC mods and all the DLC.
For a 6-7 year old game, it looks goddamn fantastic! Feels like I'm playing a fully remastered version and I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
I'm playing it at 4K/60fps, using all texture packs, and I've cranked up just about every graphical tweak I can find between SweetFX and .ini edits. Using all that, in some character dialogue scenes it looks almost as good as any game out there.
Mods/tweaks I'm using:
Texture Upgrades - A Lot of Textures, HD Eye Texture
Graphics Tweaks - ENB/SweetFX mod, plus line item .ini file edits (use this guide for the best .ini edits, using it on top of SweetFX is how you can crank everything up to 11)
Gameplay hacks - No loading screens, no mini-games, no startup movies
On a separate note, I had not played Lair of the Shadow Broker before and just finished that tonight. No joke one of the best DLCs I've played for any game. Such a cool side story that has enough stakes to make it feel important, but far enough off the path that missing it does not negatively impact the main story. The final Shadow Broker encounter and DLC ending was setup so well and deliver on story (although the boss fight was meh)
Below are some screenshots; I'm not doing them justice because Steam is compressing my 4K images, so if I have more time I will try and open an abload.de account to post some native resolution screen caps.
Could not be happier with the modded game on PC. I'm going to roll right into modded ME3 once I'm done.
