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[Enduin]

I said this in a previous post, but if they bring back vehicle exploration similar to ME1, it needs to be seriously refined. Not every planet needs it, especially when there's only 1-2 things kinda-sorta worth exploring there. Plus, with those flying airdrop vehicles like in ME2 and ME3, what's the real point of vehicles like the Mako? or even a newer version of it?

If a planet REALLY warrants vehicular travel, it better show. Remember the Hammerhead from ME2? It had the ability to gather resources from selected spots on the terrain. That's the direction I want to see them heading in. Give the land vehicles some purpose other than "travel from point A to B". Also, please don't make the levels look like they were randomly generated.

There can be a set amount of land vehicle planets throughout the game. Make them count. Give several missions, make them large and give the vehicle a real purpose.

I think Procedural Generation has come a long way since ME1 where they really just used a random terrain generator with some minor tweaks. If done right they could probably have a significant amount of exploreable worlds that actually feel alive and distinct, having different biomes and life without having to meticulously craft each and every one. If games like No Man's Sky can really produce worlds like they showed then BioWare should be able to create something close to the quality of areas like Project Overlord.

The planets in ME1 were more than large enough so it's not like they would have generate whole planets. And those maps are still manageable enough that they could test them out and make sure they worked and make whatever modifications were necessary for any missions or events they wanted to occur on the planets.

The hardest part would probably balancing the difficulty of the planets and creating all the content for them and testing it out so there aren't any quest glitches or messed up event triggers.

The problem is whether or not BioWare is interested in bring back that exploration aspect of the game like it was in ME1 or if they'll just stick to tiny little maps like we got with the N7 missions in ME2 and ME3.

 

[doemaaan]

I think Procedural Generation has come a long way since ME1 where they really just used a random terrain generator with some minor tweaks. If done right they could probably have a significant amount of exploreable worlds that actually feel alive and distinct, having different biomes and life without having to meticulously craft each and every one. If games like No Man's Sky can really produce worlds like they showed then BioWare should be able to create something close to the quality of areas like Project Overlord.

The planets in ME1 were more than large enough so it's not like they would have generate whole planets. And those maps are still manageable enough that they could test them out and make sure they worked and make whatever modifications were necessary for any missions or events they wanted to occur on the planets.

The hardest part would probably balancing the difficulty of the planets and creating all the content for them and testing it out so there aren't any quest glitches or messed up event triggers.

The problem is whether or not BioWare is interested in bring back that exploration aspect of the game like it was in ME1 or if they'll just stick to tiny little maps like we got with the N7 missions in ME2 and ME3.

That's what I kind of want. Me personally. I don't really care for having tons of vehicular explorable planets. As long as the ones they do have are "meticulously" designed. Plenty of quests and room, like a mini sandbox world.

I'm pretty sure I read a quote somewhere about them wanting to bring exploration back in a big way, but I'm not sure if it was in regards to vehicles.

 

[RedSwirl]

One reason I wanna see vehicles come back is the thought of what flying a plane for the first time in GTA V felt like. Imagine flying a shuttle over the surfaces of various planets and then maybe transferring to a tank or buggy. I feel like that kind of thing though is too big a deal to incorporate as an element of a larger RPG. It would essentially have to be the main mode of transportation in the game outside of the galaxy map. It's probably more fit for a whole different game.

 

[Enduin]

That's what I kind of want. Me personally. I don't really care for having tons of vehicular explorable planets. As long as the ones they do have are "meticulously" designed. Plenty of quests and room, like a mini sandbox world.

I'm pretty sure I read a quote somewhere about them wanting to bring exploration back in a big way, but I'm not sure if it was in regards to vehicles.

I guess that's where we differ. I'd rather a couple dozen planets that offer large maps with lots of little pockets to explore and discover than to have a handful of smaller on foot maps that were densely designed. The N7 missions were nice and all in ME2/3 but I think they were a poor trade off to the planets from ME1. It was exciting to rove around and see something pop up on your radar. Or to see a rare structure in the distance. You never knew what just over a ridge. Where as in the N7 missions you knew you were going in for a fire fight and maybe an objective or two in blowing something up or turning machine on or off. They just missions, not planets that could start whole quest lines or hold bases or settlements.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

More sky car levels like in Lair of The Shadow Broker. Specifically in the Citadel, would be awesome chasing down a criminal.

 

[Karak]

I think Procedural Generation has come a long way since ME1 where they really just used a random terrain generator with some minor tweaks. If done right they could probably have a significant amount of exploreable worlds that actually feel alive and distinct, having different biomes and life without having to meticulously craft each and every one. If games like No Man's Sky can really produce worlds like they showed then BioWare should be able to create something close to the quality of areas like Project Overlord.

The planets in ME1 were more than large enough so it's not like they would have generate whole planets. And those maps are still manageable enough that they could test them out and make sure they worked and make whatever modifications were necessary for any missions or events they wanted to occur on the planets.

The hardest part would probably balancing the difficulty of the planets and creating all the content for them and testing it out so there aren't any quest glitches or messed up event triggers.

The problem is whether or not BioWare is interested in bring back that exploration aspect of the game like it was in ME1 or if they'll just stick to tiny little maps like we got with the N7 missions in ME2 and ME3.

Agreed. Planet Explorers is another one that is doing wonders with random generators. Just Cause 2 has really opened my eyes to what something could look like with a Shuttle flyby Just Cause 2 almost looks like another world and is so damn slick. I would love a couple handmade planets and then explorable ones that are random.

But I want them to go alien.
Gas planets, shattered planets, go nuts man.

 

[RedSwirl]

Agreed. Planet Explorers is another one that is doing wonders with random generators. Just Cause 2 has really opened my eyes to what something could look like with a Shuttle flyby Just Cause 2 almost looks like another world and is so damn slick. I would love a couple handmade planets and then explorable ones that are random.

But I want them to go alien.
Gas planets, shattered planets, go nuts man.

It'd be interesting if they actually made that the main mode of exploration in the game aside from the galaxy map:
-You click on a planet (or move your little ship icon like on a JRPG world map).
-Clicking on said planet brings you to a miniature explorable sandbox. Maybe have it be one town-sized sandbox, or two or three separated by landscape in-between. Allow use of land and air vehicles.
-You can enter certain buildings in these sandboxes which often initiates actual missions, or maybe just random caves where you find loot.

 

[doemaaan]

Man.. you guys. You can only take these hopes for exploration so far. Think about the direction ME has been going in. Having multiple huge open worlds to explore is not what the series has been known for since ME2. I'd honestly be surprised if that's the direction they went it. I wouldn't hate it, mind you. It'd be a fresh take on the series.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Huge open worlds wasn't even what it was known for in 1. It was like a square piece of terrain with two items in it. I'm not even sure if you can qualify that as a "world". The "smaller" spaces were far, far more densely packed with content.

 

[doemaaan]

Huge open worlds wasn't even what it was known for in 1. It was like a square piece of terrain with two items in it. I'm not even sure if you can qualify that as a "world". The "smaller" spaces were far, far more densely packed with content.

Maybe "huge open worlds" wasn't the best way to describe what ME1 had. Sandbox's are more like it. I doubt they're going back to having a lot of those. Regardless of whatever advances they've made in procedurally generated maps.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

I've played through ME1 tons of times and explored the UNC planets a fair bit, but I had no idea this was a thing: After you beat Noveria and

Spoiler

Let the queen live,

you can hear the Rachni "singing" at certain locations on a few planets. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[doemaaan]

I've played through ME1 tons of times and explored the UNC planets a fair bit, but I had no idea this was a thing: After you beat Noveria and

Spoiler

Let the queen live,

you can hear the Rachni "singing" at certain locations on a few planets. Pretty cool stuff.

That is pretty cool. To think, 5+ years later I'd come across this. There's probably a bunch more I don't know about.

 

[SparkTR]

I kind of trailed off the series after ME2 released. Though I was disappointed by it I thought the original showed fantastic potential, but I felt like they opted for a safer more constrained action-oriented route for the sequels, like they threw away a lot of their ambition for whatever reason.

I'd definitely be willing to give it another shot once an Origin sale for the Trilogy comes around. Maybe with my expectations in check I'll be able to have fun with it, that ME1 pre-release hype-train was intense and definitely skewed my opinion of the franchise.

E: Welp, I'm not a strong person.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I've played through ME1 tons of times and explored the UNC planets a fair bit, but I had no idea this was a thing: After you beat Noveria and

Spoiler

Let the queen live,

you can hear the Rachni "singing" at certain locations on a few planets. Pretty cool stuff.

Wait whaaaaaaat?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

E: Welp, I'm not a strong person.

Yep. My "whole series in one place" OCD forced me to buy cheap copies of ME1 and ME2 on origin to match ME3. I previously had ME1 and 2 on XBOX 360.

 

[Enduin]

Huge open worlds wasn't even what it was known for in 1. It was like a square piece of terrain with two items in it. I'm not even sure if you can qualify that as a "world". The "smaller" spaces were far, far more densely packed with content.

They weren't huge, but they were plenty large. Most had 3-4 areas of interest. Normally 2 mineral deposits then a base/mine and either a settlement camp or crashed satellite or relic.

Regardless, the relative size of those areas is still plenty large enough for our purposes in a new title, they just need some mroe loving. ME2/3 had some nice little side missions, but they were just pretty hallways that offered little if any real sense of exploration. They have their place, but they are a poor substitute on their own.

 

[GKB]

So, is there any chance of ME3 being available on Steam ? I already have it on Origin, but my ME1 and 2 are on Steam, it's kinda annoying to see them separated.

 

[Bisnic]

So, is there any chance of ME3 being available on Steam ? I already have it on Origin, but my ME1 and 2 are on Steam, it's kinda annoying to see them separated.

Unless EA have a change of heart and allow their latest titles to be on Steam, it won't happen.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Watching the Interstellar teaser trailer reminds me of the type of trailer I would make for a Mass Effect game

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

So, is there any chance of ME3 being available on Steam ? I already have it on Origin, but my ME1 and 2 are on Steam, it's kinda annoying to see them separated.

Sure, there is a chance. A really, really, really, really small one. It's possible that if Origin becomes unprofitable for EA (which it won't because they keep forcing all their hot new titles to be Origin exclusive on PC so everybody who plays EA games on PC is forced to use it), they could move it to Steam. There is no plausible near future scenario in which this happens.

They weren't huge, but they were plenty large. Most had 3-4 areas of interest. Normally 2 mineral deposits then a base/mine and either a settlement camp or crashed satellite or relic.

Regardless, the relative size of those areas is still plenty large enough for our purposes in a new title, they just need some mroe loving. ME2/3 had some nice little side missions, but they were just pretty hallways that offered little if any real sense of exploration. They have their place, but they are a poor substitute on their own.

I was pointing out that their geographical size was disproportionate to the amount of stuff to do. It wasn't a "large open world" in the same that a GTA or something is. It's almost a slap in the face to call it a "world", it's just "large". A large open cube with rockfaces and a couple of extremely sparse points of interest. Some UNC worlds had a single thing on it that would approach a reasonable level of content (like a 5 minute mission or something). Most did not.

I've been saying this for years like a broken record, but if you actually want "exploration", they can't have as many UNC levels as ME1 did. They need fewer, more content filled and well designed worlds. Have two or three barren uncharted worlds maybe, and two or three inhabited worlds that you can explore a lot on. If you want eye candy, then put in the ability to do a close-orbit with a planet while you're exploring the galaxy map. Like instead of just "lol ur in orbit" coming up as text, actually have the game let you open a view port and watch an encounter with the planet to get a spectacular view. Make you feel like you're "there" instead of just looking at a disembodied readout on a computer screen.This will make the galaxy FEEL a lot larger and more tangible even if you can't land on every shitty rock.

Mass Effect does not descend from open world games, it doesn't even descend from particularly large RPGs. It comes from KOTOR and I guess indirectly from Baldur's Gate, which are fairly typical PC RPGs with highly constrained worlds that are fairly content rich within their limited geographic scope. I feel like a lot of you are imagining what you wanted ME1 to be rather than what it actually was. It was never particularly grand or sweeping except in cutscenes. Every time you actually have control, there's like 10 dudes on screen maximum and most of them aren't moving unless it's a combat scenario, in which case you're most likely in either a barren wasteland with minimal features OR a highly constrained combat zone. The game gave me nice views while driving around in the Mako I guess?

 

[Enduin]

I was pointing out that their geographical size was disproportionate to the amount of stuff to do. It wasn't a "large open world" in the same that a GTA or something is. It's almost a slap in the face to call it a "world", it's just "large". A large open cube with rockfaces and a couple of extremely sparse points of interest. Some UNC worlds had a single thing on it that would approach a reasonable level of content (like a 5 minute mission or something). Most did not.

I've been saying this for years like a broken record, but if you actually want "exploration", they can't have as many UNC levels as ME1 did. They need fewer, more content filled and well designed worlds. Have two or three barren uncharted worlds maybe, and two or three inhabited worlds that you can explore a lot on. If you want eye candy, then put in the ability to do a close-orbit with a planet while you're exploring the galaxy map. Like instead of just "lol ur in orbit" coming up as text, actually have the game let you open a view port and watch an encounter with the planet to get a spectacular view. Make you feel like you're "there" instead of just looking at a disembodied readout on a computer screen.This will make the galaxy FEEL a lot larger and more tangible even if you can't land on every shitty rock.

Mass Effect does not descend from open world games, it doesn't even descend from particularly large RPGs. It comes from KOTOR and I guess indirectly from Baldur's Gate, which are fairly typical PC RPGs with highly constrained worlds that are fairly content rich within their limited geographic scope. I feel like a lot of you are imagining what you wanted ME1 to be rather than what it actually was. It was never particularly grand or sweeping except in cutscenes. Every time you actually have control, there's like 10 dudes on screen maximum and most of them aren't moving unless it's a combat scenario, in which case you're most likely in either a barren wasteland with minimal features OR a highly constrained combat zone. The game gave me nice views while driving around in the Mako I guess?

I think you're settling before we even see anything, it's been 7 years since ME1 first released and we now have new console hardware and more experience and software available to help with the process. ME1 planets were likely barren for a lot of reasons specific to the development of that title, not due to some unavoidable shortcoming of having a lot of planets. They were struggling to get in what they could, across the board, down to the wire, it's no surprise tertiary planets got the bare minimum attention.

Like I said a few pages back they could fairly easily set up a pretty basic tiered priority system of exploreable planets to ensure that quantity doesn't override quality, and if procedural generation were to be used they could likely get away with a large number of fairly detailed worlds without having to spend a great deal of time modeling it all themselves and could focus on those areas and planets that require the most attention and work. It all comes down to BioWare's commitment to delivering that sense of exploration. If they feel it is an important and worthy part of the experience they're aiming for then there isn't that much in the way to prevent them from doing it. I'm just not sure they are really interested in it anymore going by ME2/3 but we'll see. I for one hope they are, despite how sparse the planets were in ME1 that had a lot of great qualities and atmosphere that simply cannot be replicated in small locations like there were in ME2/3, and no pretty fly over will replicate that.

 

[EatChildren]

I don't need open world in my Mass Effect, of play space of several square kilometres. I wouldn't complain if I had it, but I don't need it.

What I do need is the sense of pacing and cohesive travel between locations and objectives present in Mass Effect, yet missing from the second two games, to return. Part of Mass Effect's charm, even on uncharted worlds, has less to do with the measure play space and more to do with your freedom to explore this space and engage in multiple gameplay scenarios with no obvious compartmentalising. You can land at a dock, talk to a few people, do some quests in the bar, drive all the way up the mountain to another base, explore that base, talk to the people there, enter hostile zones, and so on, all without the game going "NOW THE COMBAT MISSION STARTS". Loading is there, but there's great cohesion between all mission elements and a good sense of scale and travel.

Same applies to uncharted worlds. I do love that big open play space, but I more love being able to do stuff without the game locking me into one particular mode. I drive my vehicle to the army base manually. I stop along the way to check out some Prothean ruins. When I finally get to the base I chose my angle of attack and fight the opponents, either on foot or in my Mako, or both. I raid the base, finish my objective, and on the way out do a little bit more exploring in my Mako and end up fighting a Threser Maw. There's loading screens, but generally that entire sequence is seamless and I feel like I'm always in control and engaging with the adventure.

I want to see that come back more than anything. I don't need uncharted worlds as big as Mass Effect, but I do need the agency.

 

[Mindlog]

I've been saying this for years like a broken record, but if you actually want "exploration", they can't have as many UNC levels as ME1 did. They need fewer, more content filled and well designed worlds. Have two or three barren uncharted worlds maybe, and two or three inhabited worlds that you can explore a lot on. If you want eye candy, then put in the ability to do a close-orbit with a planet while you're exploring the galaxy map. Like instead of just "lol ur in orbit" coming up as text, actually have the game let you open a view port and watch an encounter with the planet to get a spectacular view. Make you feel like you're "there" instead of just looking at a disembodied readout on a computer screen.This will make the galaxy FEEL a lot larger and more tangible even if you can't land on every shitty rock.

That's been one of my main proposals for a long time now. Being able to see something outside of the ship is a start.

The way the Galaxy Map is currently structured destroys all sense of scale. When they introduced Normandy driving it only made it worse. "Here is an entire solar system! Now drive your ship around it like a little toy boat." I would scrap that idea and replace it with a rudimentary orbital path mechanic. It's sort of like the faked Galaxy Map footage from the original Mass Effect trailer. This has the added bonus of being able to 'hide' map locations along obscure paths. Keep that going by limiting sensors and also use it as an opportunity to actually drive discovery new locations. It can be done through system map path puzzles and information gleaned from various sources. Actually arriving at a system is another problem. During a scan Mars is the same size as Jupiter. Doing a better job of acknowledging the size difference is a core component of making the space exploration feel like something substantial.

The best part? Fixing scale from space is much cheaper than trying to generate a bunch of planets to land on. Win-win!

 

[Dany]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LVXXOeDxLZM#t=1978

I had no idea that you could so down to the sand and enter the building. that video doesn't show it but I remember seeing a video posted here about that. It blew my mind lol I've played ME1 like 10+ times and never had I done that.

Does anyone have a link to that video?

 

[Tellaerin]

I was pointing out that their geographical size was disproportionate to the amount of stuff to do. It wasn't a "large open world" in the same that a GTA or something is. It's almost a slap in the face to call it a "world", it's just "large". A large open cube with rockfaces and a couple of extremely sparse points of interest. Some UNC worlds had a single thing on it that would approach a reasonable level of content (like a 5 minute mission or something). Most did not.

I've been saying this for years like a broken record, but if you actually want "exploration", they can't have as many UNC levels as ME1 did. They need fewer, more content filled and well designed worlds. Have two or three barren uncharted worlds maybe, and two or three inhabited worlds that you can explore a lot on. If you want eye candy, then put in the ability to do a close-orbit with a planet while you're exploring the galaxy map. Like instead of just "lol ur in orbit" coming up as text, actually have the game let you open a view port and watch an encounter with the planet to get a spectacular view. Make you feel like you're "there" instead of just looking at a disembodied readout on a computer screen.This will make the galaxy FEEL a lot larger and more tangible even if you can't land on every shitty rock.

I get the impression I'm in the minority on this, but hey, here goes.

The Mako sequences in ME1 you seem to have issues with? I liked them. More to the point, I liked them because they brought things to the table that made you dislike them.

I enjoyed driving around on planets, taking in the sights and seeing what (if anything) was there. The fact that most of the planets you could explore weren't jam-packed with capital-S Stuff to find didn't particularly bother me. Whenever I did stumble across something out of the ordinary - a building I could enter, a Prothean sphere - it felt like a genuine discovery. The Hammerhead stuff in ME2, by comparison, left me feeling like I was playing some kind of clumsy vehicular platformer. -_-

Not everything needs to conveniently tie into a quest line or lead to some big payout to be worthwhile for me. Though I wouldn't mind seeing more "planetary adventures" along the lines of Bring Down The Sky (which, I felt, handled the "roam around a moon doing stuff as part of a quest line" thing really well), I'd be more than happy if they just brought the Mako back. I'd love to see them go the procedural generation route for most of the planets, and flesh them out a bit more. More terrain types, randomly-generated flora and fauna, unusual planetary features (volcanoes, geysers, auroras, etc.) Maybe a mechanic where you could earn credits by collecting specimens of exotic lifeforms, or snapping photos of them for the galactic equivalent of National Geographic (and being able to browse other peoples' images in-game or something). A greater variety of random stuff to find planetside - ancient artifacts, derelict ships, hidden pirate outposts and the like. Maybe some doodads and trinkets to find that can be displayed in your cabin, stuff that doesn't necessarily do anything, but looks cool.

The whole point of the vehicular stuff, at least for me, is to provide the player with an entertaining diversion that offers some tangible rewards while making the universe feel that much bigger and more open.

It's sort of like the faked Galaxy Map footage from the original Mass Effect trailer.

If only they'd used the voice actor in that trailer for Maleshep in the games.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Started a replay last week. Now on Ilos. Man this game is great. Vigil *bow.

 

[Kuja9001]

I want a strong mix of ME1's Lore and Exploration with ME2's focus on characters.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The Mako sequences in ME1 you seem to have issues with? I liked them. More to the point, I liked them because they brought things to the table that made you dislike them.

I enjoyed driving around on planets, taking in the sights and seeing what (if anything) was there. The fact that most of the planets you could explore weren't jam-packed with capital-S Stuff to find didn't particularly bother me. Whenever I did stumble across something out of the ordinary - a building I could enter, a Prothean sphere - it felt like a genuine discovery. The Hammerhead stuff in ME2, by comparison, left me feeling like I was playing some kind of clumsy vehicular platformer. -_-

The Hammerhead missions that came with Firewalker were clumsy vehicle platformer missions and I'm right behind you in vetoing those from making a return. However, the vehicle itself is about 80% right for what a game like this should have. I just want to make it tougher (it's laughably weak in terms of durability) and change the weapons it has. But the way it controls is pretty great, and aesthetically it's a much better fit for this universe than "8 wheeler with shields". Tiny shuttles and even cars are all flying or hovercraft. Hover drones not much bigger than a grenade, small gunships etc. The Hammerhead mission in Overlord was soo much better. It was built with a similar kind of style to how ME1 used the Mako for it's mainline story missions, where you get into it to traverse between distant points on a map. That's a good use of a vehicle as a palette cleanser and I support that and things like it.

Most of the problems with the Mako were actually problems with level design:

Although the overly floaty and bouncy nature of the vehicle was not something I want to see in another Mass Effect game.

Not everything needs to conveniently tie into a quest line or lead to some big payout to be worthwhile for me. Though I wouldn't mind seeing more "planetary adventures" along the lines of Bring Down The Sky (which, I felt, handled the "roam around a moon doing stuff as part of a quest line" thing really well), I'd be more than happy if they just brought the Mako back. I'd love to see them go the procedural generation route for most of the planets, and flesh them out a bit more. More terrain types, randomly-generated flora and fauna, unusual geological features (volcanoes, geysers, auroras, etc.) Maybe a mechanic where you could earn credits by collecting specimens of exotic lifeforms, or snapping photos of them for the galactic equivalent of National Geographic (and being able to browse other peoples' images in-game or something). A greater variety of random stuff to find planetside - ancient artifacts, derelict ships, hidden pirate outposts and the like. Maybe some doodads and trinkets to find that can be displayed in your cabin, stuff that doesn't necessarily do anything, but looks cool.

You're describe some kind of Endless Ocean-type zen gaming experience. That's not automatically bad but that's never what these games were. I'm not saying there has to be a treasure chest underneath every rock, nor that you can't have large mostly empty spaces. But there should be meaningful stuff to do. The UNC worlds were at the opposite end of the spectrum to something like a Deus Ex hub, where instead of a rewarding thing to find in every back alley to promote exploration, there's a couple of quest markers that point you exactly to where the interesting thing on the planet is, and the rest of it is fucking barren wasteland. Even when you do find the points of interest they're usually a crashed probe with some resources or a matriarch writing. You're already describing yourself ways to pack the worlds with more content, but I feel like that's already an implicit admission that the ME1 approach should not be replicated, at least not without substantial modifications and improvements.

The whole point of the vehicular stuff, at least for me, is to provide the player with an entertaining diversion that offers some tangible rewards while making the universe feel that much bigger and more open.

I agree with those objectives, but I don't think we need to land on a large series of empty rocks to do it. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that having a huge number of sparse, or even procedurally generated planets makes the world better. It makes it geographically larger, but in my opinion having more detailed worlds, with larger areas to explore on those smaller number of worlds is a better approach. It's entirely conceivable that you could have a Mass Effect game on a single planet yet have more exploration (and more meaningful stuff to do and find). Earth in real life has massive diversity in architectural styles, wildlife, fauna, terrain and weather. Earth is the setting of a million different games and stories, all unique! This is just an extreme example and I probably do want more like 4-5 different locations. But I really think they would benefit by not being afraid to limit the geographical scope a bit so they can spend more time filling what they have with interesting things to do.

 

[Tellaerin]

But the way it controls is pretty great, and aesthetically it's a much better fit for this universe than "8 wheeler with shields".

As far as aesthetics go, the Mako reminded me of the Ark II. I'm not sure how old you are, so I don't know if that's relevant to you or not, but it was another one of those things that helped sell the whole "period sf" thing for me. (That, and the slightly floaty, almost slow-motion way it handled strongly reminded me of the vehicle sfx in Space: 1999.) That might not mean as much to someone else, but it was one of those things I appreciated.

You're describe some kind of Endless Ocean-type zen gaming experience. That's not automatically bad but that's never what these games were.

I'm not saying that Mass Effect 1 was only about ambling around on planets in the Mako, doing some leisurely sightseeing. But it was a part of the experience for me, and I felt ME 2 and 3 suffered a bit by ditching that.

I'm not saying there has to be a treasure chest underneath every rock, nor that you can't have large mostly empty spaces. But there should be meaningful stuff to do. The UNC worlds were at the opposite end of the spectrum to something like a Deus Ex hub, where instead of a rewarding thing to find in every back alley to promote exploration, there's a couple of quest markers that point you exactly to where the interesting thing on the planet is, and the rest of it is fucking barren wasteland.

The bolded is what I have a problem with.

To offer a little perspective, one of the things I was kind of ambivalent about in the shift from ME 1 to 2/3 was interior level design. ME 1's environments felt like they'd been designed as places first, and as videogame stages optimized for shooting second. That meant that the gunplay wasn't always as exciting in 1 as it was in the sequels. On the other hand, those environments also felt more like actual places in a lot of cases. In 2 and 3, I couldn't help noticing the preponderance of chest-high walls and conveniently-placed crates everywhere a firefight was going to break out, or how places were laid out like long winding corridors to channel me through a string of encounters. It feels contrived. I can understand the reasoning behind the design choice, and I can appreciate what it brings to the table in terms of playability, but it also hits me over the head with the fact that I'm playing a game. That's a bit of a negative for an RPG, at least for me. So, yeah, ambivalent.

Deliberately packing in things to find at every turn to "promote exploration" is one of those things that could very easily come off feeling contrived and "gamey" - "Oh, hey, let me check behind that waterfall because it's obviously meant to be hiding something and I haven't found the unwritten quota of Exploration Stuff on this planet yet."

Even when you do find the points of interest they're usually a crashed probe with some resources or a matriarch writing. You're already describing yourself ways to pack the worlds with more content, but I feel like that's already an implicit admission that the ME1 approach should not be replicated, at least not without substantial modifications and improvements.

I felt ME 1 had the right overall idea when it came to exploration, and that I'd like to see them expand on that in ways that build on its strengths. Procedurally-generated non-plot planets would keep exploration interesting. Each new playthrough would provide a chance to discover something different. They'd be a source of random sidequest content - explore, fight hostile lifeforms/brigands/whatever, level up your characters, find some minor upgrade items and neat trinkets. Like scanning and firing off probes, but not shitty and boring.

I agree with those objectives, but I don't think we need to land on a large series of empty rocks to do it. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that having a huge number of sparse, or even procedurally generated planets makes the world better. It makes it geographically larger, but in my opinion having more detailed worlds, with larger areas to explore on those smaller number of worlds is a better approach. It's entirely conceivable that you could have a Mass Effect game on a single planet yet have more exploration (and more meaningful stuff to do and find). Earth in real life has massive diversity in architectural styles, wildlife, fauna, terrain and weather. Earth is the setting of a million different games and stories, all unique! This is just an extreme example and I probably do want more like 4-5 different locations. But I really think they would benefit by not being afraid to limit the geographical scope a bit so they can spend more time filling what they have with interesting things to do.

Honestly, I'd rather have a bunch of procedurally-generated sidequest-y worlds where I'm not going to know what I'll find than a handful of "amusement park" planets designed to be explored once, where everyone will have the same experience and there'll be no surprises after your first visit. Handcrafted content on all the key "plot" worlds? Definitely. But outside of those planets? Let it be a mystery. We're picking up a strange signal? Maybe it's coming from a Prothean ruin, or a crashed probe, or a hidden pirate base. Only one way to find out, and that's to saddle up and go investigate. That's what I'm looking for.

 

[astonish]

I also think the Mako added needed spaciousness to the worlds, despite playing poorly. I didn't really miss it in the 2nd game, but I think I wouldn't have felt the universe was as grand without it in the first. I think for example the snow driving of Novaria was great as was the DLC in ME2. Some gorgeous terrain and vistas, the kind of thing Frostbite should do well with.

Hopefully they find a nice balance in the future

 

[prag16]

My tears will fill up oceans if we get no info at E3.

 

[Vashetti]

My tears will fill up oceans if we get no info at E3.

I think it's a certainty.

 

[Renekton]

I just want Mass Effect coop Multiplayer back.

For some reason it's still more fun than Warframe's.

 

[RedSwirl]

I kind of trailed off the series after ME2 released. Though I was disappointed by it I thought the original showed fantastic potential, but I felt like they opted for a safer more constrained action-oriented route for the sequels, like they threw away a lot of their ambition for whatever reason.

I'd definitely be willing to give it another shot once an Origin sale for the Trilogy comes around. Maybe with my expectations in check I'll be able to have fun with it, that ME1 pre-release hype-train was intense and definitely skewed my opinion of the franchise.

E: Welp, I'm not a strong person.

Yep. My "whole series in one place" OCD forced me to buy cheap copies of ME1 and ME2 on origin to match ME3. I previously had ME1 and 2 on XBOX 360.

So, is there any chance of ME3 being available on Steam ? I already have it on Origin, but my ME1 and 2 are on Steam, it's kinda annoying to see them separated.

Uhh guys...

Origin will accept your Steam CD keys.

Just click "view CD key" for Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 on Steam and enter them into the section in Origin that says "Activate Product" or something, and they'll accept. Your earlier ME games should show up in your Origin library. You may have to install ME and ME2 in order to be able to view the CD keys.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

If you took the shooting mechanics of 3 and implement them into ME1 you get a fantastic experience. For next gen Im hoping Bioware will be able to find that balance. Not to mention I would love it if the game actually took our choices into account.

I still find myself replaying the trilogy because of how great of a gaming achievement it was. Yes the ending is a sour note but the rest of the series is brilliant

 

[RedSwirl]

I don't need open world in my Mass Effect, of play space of several square kilometres. I wouldn't complain if I had it, but I don't need it.

What I do need is the sense of pacing and cohesive travel between locations and objectives present in Mass Effect, yet missing from the second two games, to return. Part of Mass Effect's charm, even on uncharted worlds, has less to do with the measure play space and more to do with your freedom to explore this space and engage in multiple gameplay scenarios with no obvious compartmentalising. You can land at a dock, talk to a few people, do some quests in the bar, drive all the way up the mountain to another base, explore that base, talk to the people there, enter hostile zones, and so on, all without the game going "NOW THE COMBAT MISSION STARTS". Loading is there, but there's great cohesion between all mission elements and a good sense of scale and travel.

Same applies to uncharted worlds. I do love that big open play space, but I more love being able to do stuff without the game locking me into one particular mode. I drive my vehicle to the army base manually. I stop along the way to check out some Prothean ruins. When I finally get to the base I chose my angle of attack and fight the opponents, either on foot or in my Mako, or both. I raid the base, finish my objective, and on the way out do a little bit more exploring in my Mako and end up fighting a Threser Maw. There's loading screens, but generally that entire sequence is seamless and I feel like I'm always in control and engaging with the adventure.

I want to see that come back more than anything. I don't need uncharted worlds as big as Mass Effect, but I do need the agency.

Ultimately, this is what's important. I need to feel like I'm exploring planets and exploring the galaxy. That is one of the key things that draws me into Mass Effect.

Though I admit it would be a good idea to let you look out the window of your ship and actually see whatever body you've stopped at on the galaxy map. I could imagine BioWare simply making a bunch of unique exterior views for when you look out those windows. Maybe even planets you've landed on.

 

[Patryn]

I think it's a certainty.

On the other side, I will come out and say I fully believe E3 will come and go with absolutely nothing new about ME4 being revealed. I honestly believe they won't unveil anything officially until Dragon Age: Inquisition is out.

 

[Enduin]

On the other side, I will come out and say I fully believe E3 will come and go with absolutely nothing new about ME4 being revealed. I honestly believe they won't unveil anything officially until Dragon Age: Inquisition is out.

I have to agree with this. At most I think we'll get a teaser trailer that's more title reveal than anything else. They're not exactly competing titles by any means, but I think BioWare will want all eyes on DAI alone before they talk at all about ME. Which I think is best. I want real ME info within the year of its release. I'm too old for years of speculation and drip feed reveals. Just bombard me 6-10 months pre release.

 

[Patryn]

I have to agree with this. At most I think we'll get a teaser trailer that's more title reveal than anything else. They're not exactly competing titles by any means, but I think BioWare will want all eyes on DAI alone before they talk at all about ME. Which I think is best. I want real ME info within the year of its release. I'm too old for years of speculation and drip feed reveals. Just bombard me 6-10 months pre release.

That's the other thing. I expect ME4 to be a Fall 2015 title at its earliest, so I'm not sure what an 2014 E3 reveal will give us. Honestly, I'm really thinking it's a Q1 2016 title.

ME3 has shown that they need adequate time to bake in the oven, especially given that I find it likely this won't be a cross-gen title, so I can be patient and wait for them to get closer to release to reveal anything.

 

[Lord Panda]

I'd love to replace the Normandy rudimentary point and click navigation with a proper flight model in 3D space, populated with planets with their own gravity wells and so forth.

In the original trilogy, you're technically a captain of a starship but it feels like you're just a passenger with absolutely no input on flight operations.

Definitely out of scope for a game like Mass Effect.

 

[Enduin]

That's the other thing. I expect ME4 to be a Fall 2015 title at its earliest, so I'm not sure what an 2014 E3 reveal will give us. Honestly, I'm really thinking it's a Q1 2016 title.

ME3 has shown that they need adequate time to bake in the oven, especially given that I find it likely this won't be a cross-gen title, so I can be patient and wait for them to get closer to release to reveal anything.

I would be more than happy with a Q1 2016 release, the Q4 rush is still insane. I don't know the numbers but I'm pretty sure ME2 did more than fine releasing in late January.

 

[Bisnic]

They don't even need to release anything meaningful this year at E3. A simple one/two minute(s) teaser trailer showing a few worlds, races and most probably the Citadel would be enough to get the hype going.

 

[prag16]

On the other side, I will come out and say I fully believe E3 will come and go with absolutely nothing new about ME4 being revealed. I honestly believe they won't unveil anything officially until Dragon Age: Inquisition is out.

Detrimental to my tear ducts, that's what I'm expecting as well. It's what they did with ME3. If you held a gun to my head, I predict a Q4 2014 reveal with info blowout at E3 2015, and Q1 2016 launch (maaaaaaaybe Q4 2015). :'(

 

[Patryn]

They don't even need to release anything meaningful this year at E3. A simple one/two minute(s) teaser trailer showing a few worlds, races and most probably the Citadel would be enough to get the hype going.

I think it's too early for them to want to begin to create the hype train.

Detrimental to my tear ducts, that's what I'm expecting as well. It's what they did with ME3. If you held a gun to my head, I predict a Q4 2014 reveal with info blowout at E3 2015, and Q1 2016 launch (maaaaaaaybe Q4 2015). :'(

I'll go super specific and say they'll openly target a Q4 2015 release date, but then slip to Q1 2016.

 

[Bisnic]

I think it's too early for them to want to begin to create the hype train.

It's never too early to start the hype, plenty of games had their first reveal trailer 2 years or more before release. (see many Nintendo or Blizzard games)

 

[Patryn]

It's never too early to start the hype, plenty of games had their first reveal trailer 2 years or more before release. (see many Nintendo or Blizzard games)

And then you have things like people complaining that titles aren't coming out for a while, or complaining that they haven't shown off anything lately, or that (as is likely) the reveal doesn't look like the actual game...

Basically, just because others do it doesn't make it a good practice. I'd rather they wait until they can show off real gameplay.

 

[Enduin]

It's never too early to start the hype, plenty of games had their first reveal trailer 2 years or more before release. (see many Nintendo or Blizzard games)

It's a bad move pretty much always in my mind. Show what you've made and will release, not what you want to make and hope to release. Two years out is a long time. Watch Dogs is the latest in a long time of titles that were shown too early and couldn't meet their mark. Even if it's not that egregious, if they simply show features or areas that don't make the final game you get complaints and angry fans. You get over speculation and fatigue and in BioWare's case you get excessive scrutiny about every detail that just builds up over time.

Start a year out, slowly release info and 6 months out really start to open the floodgates up to release.

 

[Bisnic]

I still think the game is further in development than we believe. It's been a little more than 2 years since ME3 was released and just a few months ago they teased a few artworks(even though we saw them from behind shoulders, so couldn't see much ), then you have Bioware developpers that have been tweeting "writing space stuff! #Space" or stuff like that for months.

When was the first DA:I trailer released anyway? E3 last year?

 

[Tellaerin]

I'd love to replace the Normandy rudimentary point and click navigation with a proper flight model in 3D space, populated with planets with their own gravity wells and so forth.

In the original trilogy, you're technically a captain of a starship but it feels like you're just a passenger with absolutely no input on flight operations.

Definitely out of scope for a game like Mass Effect.

I really want some kind of playable ship-to-ship combat this time around. Maybe use some tech/mechanics from Galactic Starfighter as a base or something. In a perfect world, my badass starship would be more than just a mission hub.

 

[Salcin]

First Person Shooter with Bioshock's plasmid mechanics and Halo's gunplay. Meaningful choices, focus on characters, plenty of items.

game of all time?