Support NeoGAF

[OmegaDragon]

corkscrewblow, definitely try out Ulver - Bergtatt. It has quite some folky parts and Garm lovely vocals. Also I'd recommend Enslaved - Below the Lights

Also, I just want to say that Deathspell Omega - Si Monvmentvm Reqvires, Circvmspice is the best black metal album of all time (although definitely not a good place start with the genre).

Basically. I slightly prefer Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk and At the Heart of Winter, but Si Monumentum is incredible. God I want a new DSO album.

Also anyone else liking Triptykons output?

 

[TheLastCandle]

corkscrewblow, definitely try out Ulver - Bergtatt. It has quite some folky parts and Garm lovely vocals. Also I'd recommend Enslaved - Below the Lights



Basically. I slightly prefer Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk and At the Heart of Winter, but Si Monumentum is incredible. God I want a new DSO album.

Also anyone else liking Triptykons output?

I was just listening to ATHoW the other day, great album. Immortal have such great riffs.

 

[Zozobra]

Also, I just want to say that Deathspell Omega - Si Monvmentvm Reqvires, Circvmspice is the best black metal album of all time (although definitely not a good place start with the genre).

I want to like this album and oh how I've tried after countless recommendations, but I just can't get into it. With the exception of a few solid tracks, the whole album sounds way too similar for me to get any true enjoyment out of it. That being said, I like everything they've done since then (Fas, Kénôse, etc.).

There are so many great black metal albums out there so I couldn't declare one to be the best of all time, but my personal favorite is Weakling - Dead as Dreams.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

I want to like this album and oh how I've tried after countless recommendations, but I just can't get into it. With the exception of a few solid tracks, the whole album sounds way too similar for me to get any true enjoyment out of it. That being said, I like everything they've done since then (Fas, Kénôse, etc.).

There are so many great black metal albums out there so I couldn't declare one to be the best of all time, but my personal favorite is Weakling - Dead as Dreams.

I've actually never heard this. Will have to check this out.

 

[Ravager61]

I want to like this album and oh how I've tried after countless recommendations, but I just can't get into it. With the exception of a few solid tracks, the whole album sounds way too similar for me to get any true enjoyment out of it. That being said, I like everything they've done since then (Fas, Kénôse, etc.).

There are so many great black metal albums out there so I couldn't declare one to be the best of all time, but my personal favorite is Weakling - Dead as Dreams.

Fas is a bit too chaotic for me. Kenose is a close second favorite of mine but it just can't compare to SMRC. That album just has everything a good black metal album should. It's atmospheric, dynamic, intelligent, catchy at times, and it's evil as hell.

To those that say they can't get into it, give it another shot. It's really an album that demands your full attention and can take a few listens to really sink in.

 

[Melchiah]

Granted, Bergtatt's not purely black metal, but if you wouldn't describe Nattens Madrigal as black metal either, then what genre is it?

Like I said, it's not black metal, as their themes don't evolve around satanic concepts. Odinism/paganism isn't a synonym to satanism. What defines black metal isn't the music, but what lies beneath. Just think about the old bands, that predate the modern Norwegian scene; Bathory, Hellhammer, Sarcofago, MayheM, Samael, Necromantia, Blasphemy, Beherit, Master's Hammer... not many of them sound the same. The idea, that black metal has a certain sound, was born after the norwegian scene expanded in the beginning of the 90ies.

 

[Ravager61]

Like I said, it's not black metal, as their themes don't evolve around satanic concepts. Odinism/paganism isn't a synonym to satanism. What defines black metal isn't the music, but what lies beneath. Just think about the old bands, that predate the modern Norwegian scene; Bathory, Hellhammer, Sarcofago, MayheM, Samael, Necromantia, Blasphemy, Beherit, Master's Hammer... not many of them sound the same. The idea, that black metal has a certain sound, was born after the norwegian scene expanded in the beginning of the 90ies.

Sorry but bands do not have to be satanic to be black metal. The genre has very much evolved beyond that. Your definition of the genre is very narrow. Most Burzum albums don't have any satanic themes. Would you say they are not black metal?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Like I said, it's not black metal, as their themes don't evolve around satanic concepts. Odinism/paganism isn't a synonym to satanism. What defines black metal isn't the music, but what lies beneath. Just think about the old bands, that predate the modern Norwegian scene; Bathory, Hellhammer, Sarcofago, MayheM, Samael, Necromantia, Blasphemy, Beherit, Master's Hammer... not many of them sound the same. The idea, that black metal has a certain sound, was born after the norwegian scene expanded in the beginning of the 90ies.

Black metal does not necessarily equal Satanism. Your definition is pretty flawed.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

corkscrewblow, definitely try out Ulver - Bergtatt. It has quite some folky parts and Garm lovely vocals. Also I'd recommend Enslaved - Below the Lights

This is a band I've been getting into more and more since seeing them with Opeth last year. How does Below the Lights compare to, say, Isa and Vertebrae?

 

[Zozobra]

This is a band I've been getting into more and more since seeing them with Opeth last year. How does Below the Lights compare to, say, Isa and Vertebrae?

Far superior to both, imo. I guess you could say it's a bit heavier, although I don't know if that would be the right term here. I love everything that band puts out, but Below the Lights is my favorite album of theirs, easily. I think I will listen to it now, actually.

 

[EzLink]

Okay, wow. Amon Amarth was absolutely incredible live. They sounded pretty much flawless, I was blown away

Eluveitie was sick too. Smoked a j before Eluveitie, and then during Amon there some guy was just passing a j around :lol Needless to say this heightened my experience greatly

But yeah, such a killer show. I will for sure see Amon again whenever they are back. I also was surprised at just how friendly Johan was. I expected him to have this tough guy persona the whole time but he was incredibly friendly. He was basically all smiles between songs, it was cool

 

[TheLastCandle]

Okay, wow. Amon Amarth was absolutely incredible live. They sounded pretty much flawless, I was blown away

Eluveitie was sick too. Smoked a j before Eluveitie, and then during Amon there some guy was just passing a j around :lol Needless to say this heightened my experience greatly

But yeah, such a killer show. I will for sure see Amon again whenever they are back. I also was surprised at just how friendly Johan was. I expected him to have this tough guy persona the whole time but he was incredibly friendly. He was basically all smiles between songs, it was cool

Loved AA when I saw them live. They are basically PERFECT live, and of course the windmilling on stage goes a long way toward adding to the experience.

I can't wait to see them again eventually.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

Okay, wow. Amon Amarth was absolutely incredible live. They sounded pretty much flawless, I was blown away

Eluveitie was sick too. Smoked a j before Eluveitie, and then during Amon there some guy was just passing a j around :lol Needless to say this heightened my experience greatly

But yeah, such a killer show. I will for sure see Amon again whenever they are back. I also was surprised at just how friendly Johan was. I expected him to have this tough guy persona the whole time but he was incredibly friendly. He was basically all smiles between songs, it was cool

Did they close with "Pursuit of Vikings" again?

 

[EzLink]

Did they close with "Pursuit of Vikings" again?

Yep! Great song to end it with

 

[Melchiah]

Sorry but bands do not have to be satanic to be black metal. The genre has very much evolved beyond that. Your definition of the genre is very narrow. Most Burzum albums don't have any satanic themes. Would you say they are not black metal?

Black metal does not necessarily equal Satanism. Your definition is pretty flawed.

Flawed? That's the very definition of the genre, where it stems from, and what makes it different from other genres. It isn't a certain sound, but a certain way of thinking. Why do you think it's called black metal? Because they wear black clothes and paint their faces?

And yes, I would say Burzum isn't black metal, and so does Vikernes himself.


EDIT: It often seems, it's those that haven't been there from the beginning, who think black metal is a certain music style, instead of a certain ideological style.

 

[British Monsoon]

EDIT: It often seems, it's those that haven't been there from the beginning, who think black metal is a certain music style, instead of a certain ideological style.

Yeah, maybe so - but personally i'm perfectly happy to continue thinking this way.

If i'm listening to an album that for all intents and purposes sounds like black metal, even though thematically it differs from the definition of the genre, well it's black metal to me.

 

[Phobophile]

I think I can sum up perfectly black metal for all of us:

THIS IS

HUH

WOAH

(sorry it never gets old)

 

[OmegaDragon]

This is a band I've been getting into more and more since seeing them with Opeth last year. How does Below the Lights compare to, say, Isa and Vertebrae?

Below the Lights is my favourite, but I really like Isa too. I also like Ruun and Vertebrae, but they aren't on the same level as BtL/Isa. From Below the Lights to Isa they sort of toned down the black metal sound, and Ruun & Vertebrae had even less black metal in it. I haven't heard anything pre-Below the Lights though.

Fas is a bit too chaotic for me. Kenose is a close second favourite of mine but it just can't compare to SMRC. That album just has everything a good black metal album should. It's atmospheric, dynamic, intelligent, catchy at times, and it's evil as hell.

That's imo the best description for the feel of the album. Love it

Flawed? That's the very definition of the genre, where it stems from, and what makes it different from other genres. It isn't a certain sound, but a certain way of thinking. Why do you think it's called black metal? Because they wear black clothes and paint their faces?

And yes, I would say Burzum isn't black metal, and so does Vikernes himself.


EDIT: It often seems, it's those that haven't been there from the beginning, who think black metal is a certain music style, instead of a certain ideological style.

Oh dear not this. Put me in the black metal is a music style camp. I really dislike labelling music/bands based on their ideology instead of their sound.

 

[Zozobra]

The new Twilight album 'Monument to Time End' is pretty awesome. I didn't really care for the S/T at all, but this new one is more along the lines of what I hoped the first album from this "supergroup" would have sounded like.

Cryptic Ascension - First track on the album, there are several more on YouTube.

You can definitely hear Aaron Turner's influence on their sound, which I don't think is a bad thing at all.

 

[Acheteedo]

Flawed? That's the very definition of the genre, where it stems from, and what makes it different from other genres. It isn't a certain sound, but a certain way of thinking. Why do you think it's called black metal? Because they wear black clothes and paint their faces?

And yes, I would say Burzum isn't black metal, and so does Vikernes himself.


EDIT: It often seems, it's those that haven't been there from the beginning, who think black metal is a certain music style, instead of a certain ideological style.

That anyone would define a music genre based on the lyrical content is to me absurd. Metal can be so bloody pretentious at times. When it comes down to it, black and death metal are just two broad types of extreme metal that can be defined thus:

Death metal sounds like this:

Black metal sounds like this:

Spoiler

I know, I know, I'm just opening myself up to abuse.

 

[Entropia]

I think I can sum up perfectly black metal for all of us:

THIS IS

HUH

WOAH

(sorry it never gets old)

How did that originate?
I Just saw this: http://i43.tinypic.com/6z4mjd.png on another forum I post at?

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

Below the Lights is my favourite, but I really like Isa too. I also like Ruun and Vertebrae, but they aren't on the same level as BtL/Isa. From Below the Lights to Isa they sort of toned down the black metal sound, and Ruun & Vertebrae had even less black metal in it. I haven't heard anything pre-Below the Lights though.

Frost is a great album, too.

 

[Melchiah]

Oh dear not this. Put me in the black metal is a music style camp. I really dislike labelling music/bands based on their ideology instead of their sound.

How can you define it by the sound, when there's no general sound? Basically black metal can be almost anything musically.

That anyone would define a music genre based on the lyrical content is to me absurd.

It's not only about the lyrical content, but also about how the people actually live their lives outside the band. To sing about it, is not the same as living it; what is preached should be practised.


Is anything that sounds gospel truly gospel music, or is it defined by the content and the devotion?

 

[DieH@rd]

Damn, now this is an awesome album! Great comeback for Rhapsody, they blew me away!

 

[Ceres]

How did that originate?
I Just saw this: http://i43.tinypic.com/6z4mjd.png on another forum I post at?

Check out the song War by Burzum

 

[Shrike_Priest]

How can you define it by the sound, when there's no general sound? Basically black metal can be almost anything musically.

No it can't. Abba is not Black Metal. The fact that the exact criteria can't be pinned doesn't mean there doesn't exist a framework around the genre.

It's not only about the lyrical content, but also about how the people actually live their lives outside the band. To sing about it, is not the same as living it; what is preached should be practised.

Maybe it should, but that doesn't effect genre. Maybe you could speak about certain bands not being "true" or whatever, but if it not only has to have satanic undertones but be played by practicing satanists you're essentially rendering the genre as such a useless tool. Gorgoroth is black metal, Emperor is black metal, that's about it.

Also, where does that leave satanic folk rock? Or satanic death metal? Is that also black metal?

I don't use genre to define what the people behind the music have as their personal beliefs, I use genre to define what music sounds like.

Is anything that sounds gospel truly gospel music, or is it defined by the content and the devotion?

To be honest, if someone made a gospel album that had all the traditional gospel elements (choirs repeating lead vocals, same instrumentation etc.), but all the lyrics were about skullfucking baby deers for satans glory, it'd still be a gospel album. Maybe "black gospel". But still gospel.

 

[Melchiah]

No it can't. Abba is not Black Metal. The fact that the exact criteria can't be pinned doesn't mean there doesn't exist a framework around the genre.

I guessed someone would take my comment to the extreme. When I said, it can be almost anything musically, does that imply it can be hollow mainstream pop music?

Maybe it should, but that doesn't effect genre. Maybe you could speak about certain bands not being "true" or whatever, but if it not only has to have satanic undertones but be played by practicing satanists you're essentially rendering the genre as such a useless tool. Gorgoroth is black metal, Emperor is black metal, that's about it.

That's about it? Really? I take it, the more underground bands, or for that matter, bands outside of Norway aren't that familiar to you?


There's a vast number of black metal bands using satanic themes all over the world, whose sound varies from one extreme to another;
Funeral Mist, Deathspell Omega, Mysticum (RIP), Shining, Peste Noire, Urfaust, Mortuary Drape, Arkhon Infaustus, Absu, Profanatica, Inquisition, Mutiilation, Revenge, Grand Belial's Key, Watain, Craft, Marduk, S.V.E.S.T., Clandestine Blaze, Behexen, Satanic Warmaster, Baptism, Horna, Sargeist, Urn, Archgoat, Antaeus, Stillhet, Gnaw Their Tongues...

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Please tell me we're going to start talking about being TRVE and KVLT now.

TRVE GRIM KVLT MEHTUL FROM THE FROZEN FORESTS OF NORWAY

I think I can sum up perfectly black metal for all of us:

THIS IS

HUH

WOAH

(sorry it never gets old)

:lol Best definition of black metal anyone could ever muster.

Also, http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Metal

 

[OmegaDragon]

That's about it? Really? I take it, the more underground bands, or for that matter, bands outside of Norway aren't that familiar to you?


There's a vast number of black metal bands using satanic themes all over the world, whose sound varies from one extreme to another;
Funeral Mist, Deathspell Omega, Mysticum (RIP), Shining, Peste Noire, Urfaust, Mortuary Drape, Arkhon Infaustus, Absu, Profanatica, Inquisition, Mutiilation, Revenge, Grand Belial's Key, Watain, Craft, Marduk, S.V.E.S.T., Clandestine Blaze, Behexen, Satanic Warmaster, Baptism, Horna, Sargeist, Urn, Archgoat, Antaeus, Stillhet, Gnaw Their Tongues...

Okay, you are listing satanic (thought I have to ask how Shining is satanic?) black metal bands that have a rather wide variety in sound. That's not really proving your case. If anything I would say those all sound different from death metal or other metal styles and have a certain sound in common with other non-satanic bands. I do agree that it's a bit hard to pinpoint what the exact black metal sound is, as it is rather broad.

 

[Ravager61]

I guessed someone would take my comment to the extreme. When I said, it can be almost anything musically, does that imply it can be hollow mainstream pop music?




That's about it? Really? I take it, the more underground bands, or for that matter, bands outside of Norway aren't that familiar to you?


There's a vast number of black metal bands using satanic themes all over the world, whose sound varies from one extreme to another;
Funeral Mist, Deathspell Omega, Mysticum (RIP), Shining, Peste Noire, Urfaust, Mortuary Drape, Arkhon Infaustus, Absu, Profanatica, Inquisition, Mutiilation, Revenge, Grand Belial's Key, Watain, Craft, Marduk, S.V.E.S.T., Clandestine Blaze, Behexen, Satanic Warmaster, Baptism, Horna, Sargeist, Urn, Archgoat, Antaeus, Stillhet, Gnaw Their Tongues...

This argument is stupid. Musical genres are based on the music, not on themes or ideas surrounding the music. Yes there is variation in the genre but all black metal shares certain musical similarities. Morbid Angel have satanic themes but are not black metal just like burzum doesn't have satanic themes and are black metal. You are making arguments for bands being tr00 and kvlt, not for whether or not they are actually black metal.

If black metal is defined by themes like you say it is, then it is not a musical genre(which it is).

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

This just made my afternoon:

 

[Vespasian]

To drop into this thread without having read pretty much any of it, I have to say I'm really enjoying me some Nile at the moment. I'm going to dare to navigate the quagmire of metal subgenres and call them Tech-death metal.

 

[Ceres]

This just made my afternoon:

This is one of my favorites:

 

[Diseased Yak]

Latest stuff I've been spinning:

Alcest - Ecailles de Lune - the latest album by these guys (or I think it's just one dude). At any rate, it's basically shoegazey black metal that is really something to hear. I suggest you all give it a go, some will like it, others wont. I find it fan-fucking-tastic, and it's as good as their last one, Souvenirs D'un Autre Monde.

Bison B.C. - Dark Ages - incredible new effort from these sludge masters. Brutal fucking riffs the whole way through. Definitely a highlight of 2010 so far.

Mendozza - Cabra Noche - another fantastic new album, and I would say better than their last. Heavy, chugging riffs that'll melt your face. Easily in my top 5 for the year so far, perhaps the top.

 

[DieH@rd]

this is a goog one

 

[Shrike_Priest]

I guessed someone would take my comment to the extreme. When I said, it can be almost anything musically, does that imply it can be hollow mainstream pop music?

Yes, "almost anything" does imply mainstream pop. But sure, you win. I'll keep it in the metal realm: Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath. Quintessential metal album, tons of references to Satan, black metal? nope.

That's about it? Really? I take it, the more underground bands, or for that matter, bands outside of Norway aren't that familiar to you?

I'm actually a fan of fairly few Norwegian BM-bands (Mayhem, Taake, Enslaved, Emperor, Ulver and Burzum), but listen to tons of stuff from the rest of Europe (Deathspell, Peste Noire, Amersoeurs, Mortifera, Drudkh, Negura Bunget, Astrofaes, Shining, Blut Aus Nord, Coldworld, Darkspace, Dernier Martyr, Diametragon, Sui Caedere, Thränenkind, Lantlôs etc.), but I guess only two or so of those would count by your standards. I also listen to tons of north American BM.

The point I was making was that if bands like Darkthrone, Mayhem, Immortal and Burzum have to be left out for ideological reasons, what's the bloody point of using the term black metal? You ask those bands if they play black metal, then ask them if they're satanists.

There's a vast number of black metal bands using satanic themes all over the world, whose sound varies from one extreme to another;
Funeral Mist, Deathspell Omega, Mysticum (RIP), Shining, Peste Noire, Urfaust, Mortuary Drape, Arkhon Infaustus, Absu, Profanatica, Inquisition, Mutiilation, Revenge, Grand Belial's Key, Watain, Craft, Marduk, S.V.E.S.T., Clandestine Blaze, Behexen, Satanic Warmaster, Baptism, Horna, Sargeist, Urn, Archgoat, Antaeus, Stillhet, Gnaw Their Tongues...

Sure, those might all be Black Metal, but I'll argue that so is Wolves in the Throne Room, Liturgy, later Mayhem and Negura Bunget. Neither of which claim to be satanist. All claim to play black metal, all feature blast beats, tremolo riffs, harsh vocals. There's more to bind them than pure ideology. Just like all of the bands you listed are bound by more than musical structure.

And my give up.

Onto more productive things: Ecailles de Lune is awesome. I have it on my wall.

Also, Lantlôs new album is coming on June 11th:

 

[Phobophile]

How did that originate?
I Just saw this: http://i43.tinypic.com/6z4mjd.png on another forum I post at?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgcDlqwxhl4

Literally all you need are the first 8 seconds.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

So, how does metal GAF feel about Carpathian Forest? I've had little exposure to the band myself, but I recently heard their cover of the Cure song "A Forest" and I'm somewhat intrigued. Any recommendations for further listening?

 

[Ravager61]

So, how does metal GAF feel about Carpathian Forest? I've had little exposure to the band myself, but I recently heard their cover of the Cure song "A Forest" and I'm somewhat intrigued. Any recommendations for further listening?

They aren't that great imo. Pretty simple stuff without the atmosphere I normally look for in black metal.

 

[Melchiah]

Wasn't it not really uniformly referred to as black metal until the second wave, though? I thought most of those bands got that name retroactively.

I'd say the unifying theme is unwavering hatred for humanity, not just satanism.

And again, the second wave bands did define more of a sound (although the differences between those bands was still huge), and that was many years ago. When people say black metal, they are probably referring to some form of what those bands and subsequent ones inspired by them sound like. It's just where it's been since the early 90's, regardless of what it once meant.

What is the second wave? The first one was that of the early and mid-eighties; Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer. Is the second wave that of the late eighties; Blasphemy, Samael, Necromantia, MayheM, Beherit, or that of the early nineties, when the scandinavian scene arose?

The Norwegian scene took heavy influence of Bathory's sound, thus they "defined" the sound, or more precisely sounded similar to each other.

I find it that it's usually the younger people (not referring to you), who weren't there from the start, that have a problem to accept the fact that in black metal ideology comes first. Without it it can't be black metal. Many of the bands may sound similar, or completely different, but it's the ideology that defines them.

Black metal genre lacks certain characteristics the other genres usually have; a certain way of singing; there's no such thing (if you're willing to look past the norwegian scene), a certain way of playing; there's no such thing (if you're willing to look past the norwegian scene), a certain sound or song compositions; again, there's no such thing (if you're willing to look past the norwegian scene). If you can't pinpoint certain things in the music that define it, how can it be labelled by music alone?

They aren't that great imo. Pretty simple stuff without the atmosphere I normally look for in black metal.

You clearly haven't heard their earlier works. It's far more atmospheric, than their recent stuff.

 

[Melchiah]

Yes, "almost anything" does imply mainstream pop. But sure, you win. I'll keep it in the metal realm: Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath. Quintessential metal album, tons of references to Satan, black metal? nope.

Nope. Because their attitude was more against than for. If we were to look forefathers, we should look into Coven's and Black Widow's direction. Oh, and of course Death SS from Italy, nearly forgot them.


EDIT: To turn it around; would you call a Norwegian band called Horde a black metal band? They sounded similar to all the other Norwegian bands, but they praised god in their lyrics. There's (or at least used to be) a whole bunch of bands, whose sound is similar to that which is referred to as the Norwegian black metal sound. If they're labelled as black metal, just because they sound the same as some black metal bands, it pretty much takes away all the meaning of the title. The christian "black" bands usually labelled themselves as white metal (or unblack metal), and that title is also defined by other things than music.

The point I was making was that if bands like Darkthrone, Mayhem, Immortal and Burzum have to be left out for ideological reasons, what's the bloody point of using the term black metal? You ask those bands if they play black metal, then ask them if they're satanists.

Like I said, Vikernes himself has said Burzum isn't black metal. Immortal have never labelled themselves as one, in fact they used their own definition; holocaust metal.

Sure, those might all be Black Metal, but I'll argue that so is Wolves in the Throne Room, Liturgy, later Mayhem and Negura Bunget. Neither of which claim to be satanist. All claim to play black metal, all feature blast beats, tremolo riffs, harsh vocals. There's more to bind them than pure ideology. Just like all of the bands you listed are bound by more than musical structure.

I pretty much answered this in my reply to Mr. Animlboogy, so you can look it up from there.

 

[OmegaDragon]

I know this isn't the right way to win this argument, but I'll say it still. The vast majority uses the term black metal to describe a kind of sound and don't care for the ideological themes. The term black metal as in metal with a strictly satanic ideology I hardly encounter. Perhaps that was so back in the old days. But now the meaning of black metal has changed.

Also we really don't need even more ill defined sub genres.

 

[Melchiah]

I know this isn't the right way to win this argument, but I'll say it still. The vast majority uses the term black metal to describe a kind of sound and don't care for the ideological themes. The term black metal as in metal with a strictly satanic ideology I hardly encounter. Perhaps that was so back in the old days. But now the meaning of black metal has changed.

It's still the way it's defined, but it seems it depends on the people and the place; ie. at Finnish BlackMetal.fi forum it's a very prevalent way of thinking, but that may be due to the fact that the most active forum members are from the old days, and some of them play in Finnish BM bands. I suspect, it would be different on a larger and more open forum, that's not centered around black metal genre.

But you're right, during the good old days (in the beginning of 90ies) it was first and foremost the ideology that defined whether a band was black metal or not. Naturally, the music had to suit the message in one way or another, but there wasn't a certain music style that would inherently be black metal.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

EDIT: To turn it around; would you call a Norwegian band called Horde a black metal band? They sounded similar to all the other Norwegian bands, but they praised god in their lyrics. There's (or at least used to be) a whole bunch of bands, whose sound is similar to that which is referred to as the Norwegian black metal sound. If they're labelled as black metal, just because they sound the same as some black metal bands, it pretty much takes away all the meaning of the title. The christian "black" bands usually labelled themselves as white metal (or unblack metal), and that title is also defined by other things than music.

To me, Hellig Usvart is a black metal album, yeah. No matter what prefix you label it with (un-black metal, christian black metal, whatever). They share too many of the genre conventions, iconography, aesthetics, production, instrumentation, vocals. It's obvious that they chose to work within that framework as a reaction towards the occult leanings of the black metal scene of the time.

And as far as "taking away the meaning of the title", that depends on your definition of the meaning from the start. If you always used black metal to describe a particular sound or musical feeling, then no, it doesn't change the meaning. To me, a definition based on what it sounds like is infinitely more useful than one based on ideology.

But hey, this has gone on for too long. Let's just disagree to disagree. Your definition is narrower than mine is. I think genre is defined by both musical structure and contextual factors (iconography, fashion, stageshows, lyrical content, ideology .etc). Let's leave it at that.

 

[DieH@rd]

I just found Abbath's guitar lessions, he is incredible with guitar. Just go on UserVideos and see all of his "lessions".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p64k4BG6REU

\m/ IMMORTAL \m/

 

[Seanspeed]

Metal fans are way too damn concerned with 'labels'. I use them as a way to describe what a band sounds like, and thats it. If its god-praising, then its 'god praising black metal' to me. Its the easiest way to 'communicate' to somebody what a band sounds like, and thats what I think matters most. If you start to get all 'deep' about it, then you start to miss the point of 'categorizing' things in the first place, as its supposed to be about convenience.

 

[Ceres]

Metal fans are way too damn concerned with 'labels'. I use them as a way to describe what a band sounds like, and thats it. If its god-praising, then its 'god praising black metal' to me. Its the easiest way to 'communicate' to somebody what a band sounds like, and thats what I think matters most. If you start to get all 'deep' about it, then you start to miss the point of 'categorizing' things in the first place, as its supposed to be about convenience.

I like to refer to stuff like Living Sacrifice as life metal.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

Metal fans are way too damn concerned with 'labels'. I use them as a way to describe what a band sounds like, and thats it. If its god-praising, then its 'god praising black metal' to me. Its the easiest way to 'communicate' to somebody what a band sounds like, and thats what I think matters most. If you start to get all 'deep' about it, then you start to miss the point of 'categorizing' things in the first place, as its supposed to be about convenience.

This. I listen to music I love, not genres within genres of music. Period.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

So black.

 

[Zozobra]

I saw Krallice the other day — they opened with a new song, and I recorded it. It's really, really good.

If you want to hear/see: http://vimeo.com/11058562

Otherwise, it was nice to see them play stuff from Dimensional Bleedthrough and be able to recognize it, since the last time I saw them, that was all they played and the record wasn't out yet. The songs translate very well live — they're much more raw than on record, which is great.

This band can do no wrong. Great song, thanks for this.