Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I bet you can't find a thread where an alleged rapist was found not guilty, and people were banned for believing them innocent.
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The Michael Jackson Rebuttal
- Thread starter lightskintwin
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I bet you can't find a thread where an alleged rapist was found not guilty, and people were banned for believing them innocent.
How is this relevant? MJ's cases aren't in the slightest comparable. MJ's cases weren't 'he said, she said'. You do know the people who believe MJ to be innocent have read court testimonies, transcripts and claimant files which expose all the lies and contradictions?
The family in 2005 contradicted one another on the stand. Their stories changed throughout the whole process. This is a family who claimed they didn't discuss their child services meeting before it took place. They also claimed they never discussed the court case with one another. The brother stated he never talked to the district attorney about his testimony when MJ's defence lawyer asked if he had.. Literally seconds later he contradicted himself and said he spoke on the phone with the attorney the day before regarding questions he'd be asked on the stand! They were caught up in a web of lies.
Apologies for doubting a family who claimed they were held against their will at MJ's home, yet the Mother managed to spend $3000 at MJ's expense in spa treatments and on clothing in the time she was meant to of never been allowed to leave! During the time she managed to 'escape' she never told anybody she'd been held against her will. Her children were STILL at Neverland, supposedly held against their will, whilst she was out spending ffs!
Also a big sorry for doubting MJ giving the the boy alcohol and licking his head on a plane whilst his Mother, Chris Tucker (this isn't a mistake), MJ's doctor and two nannies were also on the plane and they never took issue with this? MJ also supposedly used the phone on the plane and rung a random number to ask 'how big is your pussy?' and yet again, in the presence of all those adults, they found no issue with it!
uncelestial
Member
Another one?
Hey, thread: You can't prove a negative. The fact that there's no proof he did molest children IS the proof that he didn't. Apply this thinking to the fact that there's no proof of leprechauns, gnomes, Santa Claus and nose goblins, and extrapolate accordingly. Thx.
It's always expected that there will be opportunists, but can you do the same for the (however many) other cases? If not, they should at least be considered plausible even though we'll never get conclusive evidence.
Where did you get the figure of 20 plus from? There have never been 20 plus accusers.
A quick search to a probably incorrect source. The specific number (which I shouldn't have specified) isn't as important as that not every case was disproven.
Edit: definitely incorrect
Is there any evidence that you didn't molest any children? Do you see where this line of thinking can take you?
A Joe Jackson defender? Now I've really seen everything. The dude tortured his kids.
starchild excalibur
Member
Guys, there might not be any conclusive evidence that unicorns exist.
But that being said, there's no proof that they don't exist, right?
Just sayin'. There's something weird about the fact that unicorns keep getting brought up as a thing. No smoke without fire and all that.
But that being said, there's no proof that they don't exist, right?
Just sayin'. There's something weird about the fact that unicorns keep getting brought up as a thing. No smoke without fire and all that.
Oh this. This isn't true at all. It was a myth that Stacy Brown came out with in 2013. He has an issue with the Jackson family and has made many false claims about them. The media fell for it hook line and sinker, or purposefully ran stories on the nonsense.
The prosecution had access to MJ's financial records in the court case in 2005 and this figure was never mentioned. Brown states the judge didn't allow it to come out in the trial due to it possibly prejudicing the jury. However, no pre trial motion features any mention of the figure not being allowed at the trial. The discussion about whether it should be allowed at the trial never took place.
The FBI files were infact fake. This website covers the whole nonsense - http://michaeljacksonallegations.co...o-silence-them-after-he-sexually-abused-them/
jesus fuck some of the posts in this thread
it's too bad that none of these people will even do 5 minutes of research on the subject and just believe "he's a creepy child molester!" on no actual evidence whatsoever
and everyone who DOES point out the lack of evidence is labeled a "hero worshiper". give me a fucking break lol
sorry, your entire post will be disregarded because you linked to a website called "michaeljacksonallegations". michael jackson raped a bunch of kids dude and you can't prove otherwiseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
By a lot, no doubt. However, in fairness, SL128 (that's who I quoted) took it on board. You make a very good point overall though. Some will lap up anything from tabloid media or if the website is anti MJ, but a pro MJ site is deemed to be nonsense as they must just like his music, as if they've never read into the case. If anything MJ fans know much more than many. Certainly much more than tabloid sources who lie to people. The Radar Online article that spawned a thread had added pages and edited content which the prosecution from 2005 said weren't from from them.
Holy shit.. did you just expose Apoc87 as a child molester? You're right, I haven't seen any evidence that he isn't..
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
MJ was a mentally ill, paranoid manchild, who unfortunately lived his life in a very similar manner to how you would imagine he would have lived it had he actually been a pedophile (i.e. filled his house with things that kids like, and had kids over, unsupervised, fairly regularly). Nevertheless, all the research I have done suggests that the evidence for the guy being a child molester is very, very thin.
I remember about ten years ago pulling an all nighter looking into all this pedophile MJ stuff... In my, "expert" legal, opinion, I came away thinking "people think this dude was guilty of molestation?!" He just seemed like a dude who liked being around kids more than what made some comfortable, which gave some opportunistic pricks a chance to make some money (I'm talking about the parents, of course).
Edit: "expert" was intended as sarcasm.
Edit: "expert" was intended as sarcasm.
If people could genuinely have an open mind, ignore what the media say, and look into things on a blank slate they'd be surprised.
The media lied to everybody about what happened in that court room in 2005. They were desperate for a conviction. They didn't care whatsoever that a child had supposedly been abused. This is a great article on it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/one-of-the-most-shameful_b_610258.html
It's funny how many times MJ was proven not guilty and yet a lot of people in America are still trying to find ways to prove that he is, even with weak ass evidence and witnesses. Hard to be a super big time, world-class celebrity living with probably the most sensationalist media in the world.
Crayon
Member
Good video. I was a teenager when it all went down and I bought hook-line-sinker that he did it because that was "the story". When you look into it tho, seems more likely a case of the ol media circus. There's no proof that he didn't molest children, which can be said about everyone here, I guess. There is evidence that the case brought against him was bogus.
GAF, I'm so very unhappy right now. We're going into Glenn Beck territory.
There's no hard evidence, there's just a ton of smoke. He was mentally ill, he was a hardcore drug addict, he was a manchild, he created The Neverland Ranch which was a pedophile's dream house, he loved little boys more than any grown man should, he did sleep in the same bed with children he was not related to, but there's no hard evidence he did anything wrong.
What was the deal with "Jesus Juice"? Was that real?
Michael Jackson defenders would also like you to believe he wasn't a baby eater. But he never went on record saying he wasn't. Maybe he was too busy eating babies.
The Albatross
Member
I read through the police report in the other thread to explicitly debunk it and I posted a definitive "There's nothing here that proves MJ molested children"
But y'know, it's really not that big a jump between a creepy dude who gives alcohol to little kids, shows them adult materials*, and sleeps in a bed with them and a child molester.
Not hat a creepy guy who shares a bed with young children, shares adult materials with them*, and gives them alcohol makes him guilty of being a child molester, but in the grand scheme of leaps and assumptions, it's not a big one.
*edit*
Correcting this, this was just the expert witness testimony that he was sharing adult materials with children and corroborated by a child who claimed that Jackson showed him those materials, but I don't think it's been proven in court.
He wasn't a drug addict. Don't believe everything you read. A drug expert indicated at the AEG trial there was no evidence to support he was an addict. He was drug dependent, which is different.
Creating Neverland to abuse children would be counter intuitive. He had no need to create such a home to molest children given he was around many long before moving there. Add to that Neverland's size means lot's of staff, which means more chance of being caught. Lot's of security there used to work in the police force.
Jesus Juice was a claim made by the Arvizo's in 2005. It's apparently what MJ called wine. Given the fact their story changed constantly, they claimed MJ gave them wine around adults who never saw such a thing and one of the boys was, supposedly, basically drunk, again all around adults who never said anything, take it with a pinch of salt. Likewise all their claims which are ridiculous and make no sense. Such as the Mother claiming MJ said he'd put the family in a hot air balloon and let it float off. The family had history of making up nonsense in cases.
There was never any proof he showed adult material to the boys in the case. Infact, only one magazine contained the prints of both the boy MJ supposedly molested, and MJ himself. That magazine turned out to be the one which was falsified evidence. The boy touched the magazine without gloves on before a grand jury. Had it not been for a member of the jury saying 'have these magazines been fingerprinted?', and MJ's lawyer seeing that question on the transcript, it probably would of gone unnoticed.
Not only is it a small leap, I don't think it's even technically possible to make a smaller leap. Damn near all the boxes are checked, the only thing missing is video evidence or a confession.
A BIG leap would be accusing a little league coach of being a pedo because he's friendly with the kids.
and what boxes are checked exactly?
Paul McCartney once told my Dad the story of how MJ got the Beatles music rights. That event really doesn't paint Michael in the best light.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Yep. This is what I always thought. Dude was not only stripped of any real childhood, what little existed would have been traumatic in many instances given his father.
Michael was simply too naive to realise how his behaviour would look to everyone and so many took advantage of that naivety.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I have no idea if Jackson was a child molester or not.
That being said, I would not have been comfortable allowing my children to be alone with him.
That being said, I would not have been comfortable allowing my children to be alone with him.
There's no proof he ever said it. From everything I've read it seems to be the creation of a journalist. It's one of those things that kinda stuck in pop culture.
That's the thing, no one whoever left their children with Michael hadn't at least spent some time with him.
Did you ever hear McCartney's side of things? From what I've read McCartney was bitter about that for years yet only had himself to blame. He didn't want to pay the asking price and so, had MJ not even matched the asking price, McCartney wouldn't of got the rights anyway. The man who negotiated the sale said McCartney had first refusal and he rejected it.
Edit: I should add I'm a McCartney fan and not trying to criticise him, but McCartney wasn't going to buy the catalogue anyway.
According to Paul (and of course he was emotional about the issue), MJ asked him what he should do with his money, and Paul told him he should get into music publishing, and that he was about to close a deal to buy back the Beatles catalog.
Later, Paul was told by his business manager that Michael had joined the bidding for the catalog.
Like I already said, everything short of hard evidence.
Oh, I think I remember hearing about Paul saying he was close to a deal. I recall MJ asking him what to do with his money. However, it seems like the two events (Paul close to buying it and MJ buying it) weren't at the same time. MJ asked what to do with his money when he stayed at Paul's house during the recording of Say, Say, Say (1981). In 1985, when MJ bought it, Paul thought it was too high. John Branca (MJ's attorney) said he spoke to Paul's attorney and asked him if Paul was going to bid and the response was no due to the price.
and what exactly is "everything"
"short of hard evidence" LOL
you know, everything. besides hard evidence.
Wasn't there also a deal that included Lennon's estate managed by Yoko Ono buying back publishing shares? I always heard the story that Ono dragging her feet about paying up for the publishing ended up leaving them vulnerable to be outbid.
It's crazy that McCartney telling Michael he was close to a deal led Michael to enter the bidding. That's ruthless. I always assumed they were disconnected conversations like "Hey Michael, publishing is where the money is at" and then Michael decided later on to bid on the Beatles.
Soon, both Ono and McCartney will be receive their publishing from Northern Songs. I think they will have to file a motion, but Dylan and the Beatles will be able to reclaim their publishing.
I think the issue was always more about MJ using Paul's advice and idea against him, at least in Paul's view.
I can see that side of it. However, with Paul not bidding, it'd be hard to turn down the chance to purchase something so lucrative imo.
Yes, everything short of hard evidence. I don't see how that's funny.
What's funny is saying, "It's a BIG jump between "creepy dude who has sleepovers with kids" and "child molester".
Now that's funny. I wonder what you think a small jump would be?
The Albatross
Member
Several allegations of child abuse, followed by large out of court settlements, followed by further allegations, accusations that Jackson served alcohol to fairly young children (12, 13, 15), admissions of repeatedly hosting sleepovers, a large collection of both adult pornography and naked photos of men, women, and children that weren't pornographic in nature, a collection of doctored images of naked adults performing sexual acts with children or other creatures doctored onto their heads/bodies collected from rooms or areas where he hosted children's sleepovers.
Jackson settled with his 1993 accuser for $15million, who later killed himself shortly after Jackson's death. A settlement and a former accuser killing himself are absolutely not indications of guilt, though both the 1993 settlement, accusations by others close to Jackson (including La Toya Jackson, that she since rescinded in the 2000s) that he paid other settlements and that she witnessed him abuse children.
Further, in 2013, a former child friend of Jackson accused Jackson of molesting him over a 7-year period. He had previously been a witness for Jackson's defense in 2005, but after having a mental breakdown in 2011 which he says was over grief caused by lying for Jackson and having a child of his own, he claims that Jackson sexually abused him.
Underscoring all of this is Jackson's own admissions of sleeping with children and loving children and several decades of drug addiction. The poster who said that Jackson wasn't an addict, he was drug dependent, is thinking of just Jackson towards the end of his life when a doctor was giving him a strong cocktail of drugs, but in the 1990s, Jackson's wife Marie Presley talked about his growing drug addiction and health concerns.
I feel very bad for Michael Jackson. He was a tormented person, a victim of abuse himself, an immensely talented genius, and somebody who was a victim of the public eye and his own forced success. But, still, there is such a strong body of accusations against Jackson, a string of settlements, and a catalog of alleged victims, along with the large body of simply weird, dangerous, or self-destructive behavior, that many people would consider these "checked boxes" if it were any other person other than arguably the most famous person i the world. It will never be settled, Jackson will never be found guilty. When former adolescent children associates of Jackson come out later in life and accuse him (as they have), they won't have evidence of abuse, only their accusations. Jackson was never proven to sexually abuse children. But he definitively showed a lack of understanding about what the proper role of an adult is around children, this is undeniable, and coupled with other curious habits like collecting explicit adult materials and having them present or near his children's sleepovers, a decades-long drug addiction or drug dependency, and being surrounded by people for most of his life who did not have his best interests in mind, I don't think it's unreasonable to jump to the conclusion that Jackson very well could have abused children sexually.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
What in fuck's name is up with these "is there proof he DIDN'T do it?" posts?
I mean, is there proof any of you didn't murder that dude that was murdered last month in that place where a guy was murdered?
Ffs.
I mean, is there proof any of you didn't murder that dude that was murdered last month in that place where a guy was murdered?
Ffs.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Is there actual evidence that Jackson paid off anybody other than the original 1993 accuser, who was pretty clearly the pawn of his conniving parents (and it was the accuser's father, not the accuser, who killed himself after Jackson's death)? How would the very expensive 2005 prosecution not brought such evidence forward, especially since California law allows you to bring evidence of that kind into the record? Everybody who was brought forward as a former "victim" absolutely crumbled under cross-examination, there was no evidence of any child pornography on the property, no kids' fingerprints were found on the adult magazines that were in Jackson's house, the alcohol claim was made by the person accusing him, etc.
You can check my browser history. I was on GAF literally the entire month.
17 Seconds
Banned
surprised at how many mj truthers we have in here
then again, i should know better than to underestimate how many people will let themselves be blinded by a bad person's talents. sure it's extremely likely he was a predator, but thriller tho
then again, i should know better than to underestimate how many people will let themselves be blinded by a bad person's talents. sure it's extremely likely he was a predator, but thriller tho
Yeah, those posts are insane. Thank god that's not how our legal system works (usually).
I think MJ was weird as fuck, and I absolutely would not be surprised if he fondled boys, but I can't say with 100% certainty that he did or didn't.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
You know whats also scary to me, anyone here in this forum and countless others. Can find themselves in a fight for they're freedom or lives, based on a lie. We live in a world where almost nothing is what it is. I don't know if Michael is guilty or innocent, but I will say I've learned to believe some of what I here and part of what I see.
I have family members who have spent 6 months to year in jail, because of false accusations. Michael Jackson experience, gave your average person a tool to destroy the lives of those, they envy or are jealous of. Coerce your kids into lieing on there mother or father, man doesn't want to pay child support and can't stand the mother of his children. So he get's her locked up for child sex abuse, through coercion.
We live in that society, where know one is above finding themselves trying explain or provide proof that there innocent.
I will end my post with this question, can I pedophile turn it off? Can he or she turn it off, for several years? A child predator risk it all continuously, to feed a sick desire, Michael Jackson provide any evidence that he actively continued to persue without regard for his on freedom?
I have family members who have spent 6 months to year in jail, because of false accusations. Michael Jackson experience, gave your average person a tool to destroy the lives of those, they envy or are jealous of. Coerce your kids into lieing on there mother or father, man doesn't want to pay child support and can't stand the mother of his children. So he get's her locked up for child sex abuse, through coercion.
We live in that society, where know one is above finding themselves trying explain or provide proof that there innocent.
I will end my post with this question, can I pedophile turn it off? Can he or she turn it off, for several years? A child predator risk it all continuously, to feed a sick desire, Michael Jackson provide any evidence that he actively continued to persue without regard for his on freedom?
Claude Augario
Member
"Is there proof he DIDN'T do it!?!?"
Are people this dense?
Are people this dense?
You clearly haven't read any facts about MJs criminal case. I'm suprised a lot of people choose to believe the tabloids instead of investigating the case documents and make up their own minds. Then again, I should know better than to underestimate how many people will let themselves be blinded by sensationalist journalism.
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