SyenceLabb
Member
lol @ folks so eager to hand over their rights to the Republican controlled government.
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"The misguided attacks on ACLU for defending Neo-Nazis" - The Intercept/Greenwald
- Thread starter Weckum
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BertramCooper
Banned
A rare moment of agreement with Greenwald.
People calling for the erosion of free speech protections in the midst of the fucking Trump administration are so misguided I don't even know where to begin.
People calling for the erosion of free speech protections in the midst of the fucking Trump administration are so misguided I don't even know where to begin.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
I think you need to get rid of the Trump administration before you look into hate speech laws.
Frozenprince
Banned
"this will strengthen their movement" uh did y'all miss the literal March of Nazis on a US city? Like even a decade ago that's unthinkable.
Pretty sure they already were strengthened.
Pretty sure they already were strengthened.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
so do nothing because nothing can be done? kind of insulting to say people should just accept being treated like shit because nothing can be done about it.
what do you think will happen? life will become regimented? you can already see what unfiltered free speech looks like (ya know terrorists running over people over statues of slave owners). we can already see what criminalizing hate speech does in other countries (surprise, life isn't a gulag)
Am I serious about breaking down someones ideas and engaging in point for point debate? Yes. You dont agree?
I saw pictures of a Nazi flag and people doing the Nazi salute. So I would assume that those people supported Nazi ideals. I would disagree that everyone at the rally was a Nazi.
Glass Rebel
Member
Hindsight is 20/20 but hate speech laws (and other measures) should have been put in place ages ago. It's going to take decades to undo the damage.
Temeculan3000
Member
Exactly. People are incredibly short sighted.
If you give up your rights in order to get rid of groups you don't like, as soon as the next administration (or current in this case) comes along they can use those same laws to oppress you.
Sure, but you're missing the point that I'm making. If you want to put restrictions on free speech, you're going to have to change the power structure of things like the presidency because right now we have a Trump figure with broad and far reaching powers that can make appointments to things like the justice department, who are currently attempting to twist wording and precedents to fuck us.
If the law works in the favour of Nazis, then it's a shit law.
If the ALCU is going to defend a shit law on principle, then their principles are shit and so are they.
Fuck Nazis, and fuck the ALCU.
Yep its getting worse each day now.
Nikodemos
Member
Unfortunately for the US, the nazis control portions of the government right now. Having them of all people draft anti-hate speech laws would result in disaster. They need to be removed from their positions and only afterwards have a bunch of strong anti-hate laws enacted.
The symbols may be banned but it's not like the underlying ideology is gone. The AFD exists.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Lol @ folks so eager to allow terrorist organizations to continue their slow march to advance their goal of murdering minorities with impunity like the good old days.
You sleep on these mofos if you want. Good old moderates. There for us as always lol...
depressedmetfan
Neo Member
I agree with freedom of speech but if people are going to say whatever they want, they should be prepared to suffer any backlash they receive.
In other words, if Nazis want to spread their hate, others should have the right to shut them up.
In other words, if Nazis want to spread their hate, others should have the right to shut them up.
VendettaRed07
Member
Because there isn't a judge in the country that would interpret European speech laws being legally possible anymore than European gun laws would be possible here without amending the constitution
This thread is all fucked. The people in here have selective hearing and reasoning. The best post is the typical European trying to implore how broken America is.
What is even worse is how people can't see free speech being impeded on when it comes to their agenda. Politics is great. No, human introspection is great.
The most insane thing is these same people were salivating with the fact that they could silence talk show radio hosts a few years ago yet somehow they backtrack on this issue. Mindblown.
What is even worse is how people can't see free speech being impeded on when it comes to their agenda. Politics is great. No, human introspection is great.
The most insane thing is these same people were salivating with the fact that they could silence talk show radio hosts a few years ago yet somehow they backtrack on this issue. Mindblown.
Psychoward
Banned
Well yes that would be the plan. Trump would never even make a no nazi law so I'm not sure why you guys are entertaining the idea that this bill is gonna happen under him.
If someone is doing a nazi salute while wearing a swastika armband and marching with swastika flags they are a nazi and don't deserve a fair debate.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
we can point to countries that, ya know, make these illegal and they seem to be doing very well. but that doesn't fit your narrative.
It doesn't work. Fascism offers an easier answer and that's what people prefer.
How old are you for real? Have you exposed yourself to even the most basic US law courses?
I don't think the ACLU went against their stated principles by fighting for the right of white supremacists to march at Charlottesville. They just highlighted that their absolutist principles aren't always for the public good. Whether you support them is up to you.
Three people are dead and many more injured. They wouldn't have been if this rally didn't happen. Period. Allowing people who adhere to an inherently violent ideology to publicly assemble led to violence, and will continue to lead to violence in the future. Again, up to you whether that is an acceptable price to pay.
Three people are dead and many more injured. They wouldn't have been if this rally didn't happen. Period. Allowing people who adhere to an inherently violent ideology to publicly assemble led to violence, and will continue to lead to violence in the future. Again, up to you whether that is an acceptable price to pay.
Arrowgigantic
Member
There should be no mistaking what Nazis will do when they are allowed to rally as speech. A torch is not speech, a tower shield and a baton is not speech. Rifle squads are not speech. The ACLU should recognize that these are what constitutes a Nazi rally, not speech.
Greenwald is a Nazi sympathizer.
Greenwald is a Nazi sympathizer.
BertramCooper
Banned
Heinous people can lawfully protest. LAWFULLY.
They did not this weekend.
Let's not conflate lawful, constitutionally protected forms of protest - even from fucking disgusting scum of the earth - with the events of this weekend. Let's not start banning lawful protest because of a brazenly unlawful one.
Psychoward
Banned
Then maybe the ACLU should stop pretending they protected a lawful protest yesterday.
Riposte
Member
People getting jailed for speaking or tweeting is inherently abusive.
molnizzle
Member
Do those countries elect leaders like Trump? With bigots like Jeff Sessions in charge of their Justice department? With an administration that would love nothing more than to surpress the freedom of the press and disseminate all news through government propaganda?
Do you trust a Republican congress to enact these laws in an acceptable manner? It's nice to want things, but we live in the real world. The right to free speech is more important now than ever. It needs to be protected because of leaders like Trump.
VendettaRed07
Member
Because it's still technically an opinion until they make a specific threat to a specific person
The argument is that it's the difference between "It would be great if someone brought a bomb on an airplane", being protected where as getting on an airplane and screaming "I have a bomb", is not.
Psychoward
Banned
And if those speeches call for the genocide of a race or sexuality that somehow isn't abusive and isn't worthy of punishment?
FZeroRacer
Neo Member
The ACLU needs to accept that yes, it is partially their fault that a woman lies dead because of neo-nazi aggression. They need to not deflect and act like the criticism is misguided or act like people aren't rightfully pissed off.
If they're going to follow their principles to the full extent then they need to accept the consequences.
If they're going to follow their principles to the full extent then they need to accept the consequences.
😂
This is a wonderful and totally nuanced thing to say about a gay Jewish guy.
This protest was 100% lawful until it wasn't. It is lawful to protest while carrying torches and rifles and wearing riot gear. It is lawful to rally for violent ideologies.
But it's not like the moment that someone does something unlawful, they're instantly kicked into the police station. This protest was clearly a situation that would lead to unlawful violence, and by the time people could do anything about it three people were dead and dozens injured.
I'm saying that handing the keys over to the Trump administration because the ACLU is defending Milo is dumb and reactionary. The ACLU have defended the free speech rights of the KKK for almost a century now. Like it or not, they have the right to spread their garbage, and the ACLU have always been on the side of defending that right. This isn't some groundbreaking precedent, and turning on them over this is juvenile.
My problem with this is our country has a history of persecuting political agitators like communists and anarchists. The first half of the twentieth century was filled with anti-sedition movements and calls against hyphen Americans for bringing over their radical ideas.
They should be roundly criticized. America-First and Fascism is an idea that should be denounced by our public officials. The problem is our elected officials, the people who represent us, not talking and acting against discrimination, fascism, and hate.
The ACLU defending the constitution is not promoting monsters, it is our neighbors and their elected officials promoting and standing by white supremacists.
They should be roundly criticized. America-First and Fascism is an idea that should be denounced by our public officials. The problem is our elected officials, the people who represent us, not talking and acting against discrimination, fascism, and hate.
The ACLU defending the constitution is not promoting monsters, it is our neighbors and their elected officials promoting and standing by white supremacists.
What is the ACLU doing to make up for yesterday? Or are they continuing to double down? I don't think there's an answer that is both "good" and "realistic" regarding hate speech laws in this country, but people died yesterday and the ACLU were complicit in giving those people a platform. So I repeat: what are they doing to make up for yesterday?
The thing is, those on the right are saying this exact thing about radical islamic terrorists and immigrants.
Nazis slaughtered millions of people. The KKK has used physical violence, including murder, to push their racist agenda for over 100 years. They were terrorists before Al-Qaida was even a thought in someone's mind. Not sure where the slippery slope is here. We already take out terrorist cells.
KernelPanic
Member
Looks like Glenn Greenwald's check from Putin cleared.
Speeches calling for genocide of a race or sexuality are illegal in the US.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Who is best pals with Julian Assange, supporter of Mike Cernovich.
Milo's a gay Catholic with a Jewish grandma, doesn't stop him from being trash.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
I don't know why someone hasn't floated a constitutional amendment to ban Nazi-related hate speech, symbolism, and imagery.
The ACLU, which I support, should get on lobbying for that.
The ACLU, which I support, should get on lobbying for that.
Muffin1611
Banned
And got absolutely irrelevant in record time. They can't even get 10% anymore. As soon as everyone was aware that they contained nazi elements that they wouldn't drop they started tanking.
The NPD exists too. Hate speech laws don't erase nazis, but they're doing a good job on containing the spreading of such ideology.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
well, we did elect Harper and got rid of 'em.
we all live in the real fucking world. you act like the government is going to put the country into lockdown and super China censorship levels -- they fucking will not even if they're republican. sure, it won't be 100% perfect but its a god damn start. so this "real world" shit doesn't work because other countries do it just fine and they still go through the dirty laundry phases. it's about conditioning the country to realize this shit isn't OK and usa isn't doing that.
the right to free speech has got you into this mess. your country is by law giving these groups the right to speak, insult, intimidate, and act against people. even if you want to defend these people out of "principle" you're misguided because obviously your principle sucks if its allowing this to occur.
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