I did mention it was pseudo related. The one on the top is RGB HDMI via Wii U and the one on the bottom is Component vs 'Cube. They're virtually identical other than one has native widescreen.
The Nintendo GameCube Appreciation and Collecting Thread.
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
I did mention it was pseudo related. The one on the top is RGB HDMI via Wii U and the one on the bottom is Component vs 'Cube. They're virtually identical other than one has native widescreen.
He's in America. No RGB support on GameCube or Wii there. And he's obviously trying to justify his £200 component cable purchase despite the facts clearly showing that RGB natively supports a wider colour range than component.
It's like arguing that the sky isn't blue. It's insane. And despite what he claims, you can't argue with the technical fact.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
pls mate, i think it's time for bed.
You're just so strangely convinced that RGB is markedly better than YPbPr. It's not. Even at 480i it's advantages are minimal. I have both and have done side-by-sides. There are multiple sources you can go to for this, no need to get aggressive at me.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
do you think you can side by side with an actual gamecube that has RGB?
So here are the technical facts:
RGB color space or RGB color system, constructs all the colors from the combination of the Red, Green and Blue colors. The red, green and blue use 8 bits each, which have integer values from 0 to 255. This makes 256*256*256=16777216 possible colors. Component quite simply does not have this range. In fact, the range is significantly less.
Also, guess where component is derived from? The initial RGB signal. It literally is the three distinct signals from RGB displayed in a source that carries less information due to relaying over two channels (plus chroma).
RGB is the pure original signal. Component is a deviation from it.
Sorry man. Until you can counter with some hard facts to this post rather than your flawled comparisons which arent even using the hardware we are discussing, then that's the end of that.
RGB color space or RGB color system, constructs all the colors from the combination of the Red, Green and Blue colors. The red, green and blue use 8 bits each, which have integer values from 0 to 255. This makes 256*256*256=16777216 possible colors. Component quite simply does not have this range. In fact, the range is significantly less.
Also, guess where component is derived from? The initial RGB signal. It literally is the three distinct signals from RGB displayed in a source that carries less information due to relaying over two channels (plus chroma).
RGB is the pure original signal. Component is a deviation from it.
Sorry man. Until you can counter with some hard facts to this post rather than your flawled comparisons which arent even using the hardware we are discussing, then that's the end of that.
I'm literally in the process of moving into a new apartment in 2 days so everything is in boxes. Everything is gonna be super busy so maybe in like 2-ish weeks when my room-mates bring the second TV.
By your argument limited RGB is notably different from full RGB. It's not. In the same way everything you say is true but the difference is not perceivable between good component and RGB.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
See you in August.
And both those TVs have RGB SCART in? If not, don't bother, unless you have a Framemeister.
Maybe we should light the bapho signal to get this conversation squashed once and for all
I have an upscaler that takes Scart even if neither TV does. I suppose I only need one TV to do screenshots with a capture card, but still with unpacking and everything going on it'll take me till Mid August to actually have the time.
And even then, it still won't make any difference as you arent outputting from a PAL GameCube using an RGB SCART cable. The comparison is flawed.
..I am though. I'll be outputting with my original PAL cube back from launch day vs. my currently used NTSC Cube.
I wouldn't ever touch Scart to HDMI upscalers either. They're trash.
Hope that doesn't include the Framemeister.
Of course not I mean the typical "SCART to HDMI" $10-$50 on Amazon. There are a bunch of good upscalers out there and Framemeister is the best for 240p for sure and best overall.
Rich! is correct in his statement that RGB theoretically has superieur colours vs Component.
The benefit of component is that it can go much higher resolution wise though. They are extremely similar in sharpness at 480i to the point that the differecnce is negligible. I have even read that RGB scart is capable of 480p, but I have never seen it irl. I might also add that these formats support things, the gamecube may not support that. (gamecube does not 720p+ which component is capable of and it does not do RGB colourspace through RGB either, for example)
If you own a CRT which cannot do 480p progressive-scan, I'd say you shouldn't bother with expensive component cables and just go with RGB scart 480i.
If you own a progressive-scan-capable CRT, you might consider it. 480p will definitely appear sharper, but CRT's handle 480i much better in motion (less smearing/artifacts etc.) than HDTV's so the difference between 480i/480p will not be as big on a CRT as it is on an HDTV.
However, if you own an HDTV, the difference bewteen 480i component/RGB vs 480p component is extremely noticeable, certainly in moving video (such as games...
) and component cables where worth it for me 5 years ago when they where still 60$. Now with 200$...ouch, I honestly don't know. It depends on your commitment with superieur video quality and how much you plan to play your cube, among other factors.
Now, this is where it gets funny. That whole RGB colours are better than component debate does not hold true with the gamecube. Now, I''l quote a very knowledgeable person (5th post on that page) from another site if that is OK:
''Also the hardware framebuffer uses YUV (actually YUY2) colorspace, so anyone who says the RGB cable gives more accurate colors is wrong.''
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2500&start=300
There, even though its an RGB signal, on gamecube (through its analog or digital port) the colours are just YUV colourspace nonetheless. Also, if I remember correctly, gamecube renders in 24 bit colours, as opposed to full 32 bit.
The benefit of component is that it can go much higher resolution wise though. They are extremely similar in sharpness at 480i to the point that the differecnce is negligible. I have even read that RGB scart is capable of 480p, but I have never seen it irl. I might also add that these formats support things, the gamecube may not support that. (gamecube does not 720p+ which component is capable of and it does not do RGB colourspace through RGB either, for example)
If you own a CRT which cannot do 480p progressive-scan, I'd say you shouldn't bother with expensive component cables and just go with RGB scart 480i.
If you own a progressive-scan-capable CRT, you might consider it. 480p will definitely appear sharper, but CRT's handle 480i much better in motion (less smearing/artifacts etc.) than HDTV's so the difference between 480i/480p will not be as big on a CRT as it is on an HDTV.
However, if you own an HDTV, the difference bewteen 480i component/RGB vs 480p component is extremely noticeable, certainly in moving video (such as games...
) and component cables where worth it for me 5 years ago when they where still 60$. Now with 200$...ouch, I honestly don't know. It depends on your commitment with superieur video quality and how much you plan to play your cube, among other factors.Now, this is where it gets funny. That whole RGB colours are better than component debate does not hold true with the gamecube. Now, I''l quote a very knowledgeable person (5th post on that page) from another site if that is OK:
''Also the hardware framebuffer uses YUV (actually YUY2) colorspace, so anyone who says the RGB cable gives more accurate colors is wrong.''
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2500&start=300
There, even though its an RGB signal, on gamecube (through its analog or digital port) the colours are just YUV colourspace nonetheless. Also, if I remember correctly, gamecube renders in 24 bit colours, as opposed to full 32 bit.
Carry on
Rich! is correct in his statement that RGB theoretically has superieur colours vs Component.
The benefit of component is that it can go much higher resolution wise though. They are extremely similar in sharpness at 480i to the point that the differecnce is negligible. I have even read that RGB scart is capable of 480p, but I have never seen it irl. I might also add that these formats support things, the gamecube may not support that. (gamecube does not 720p+ which component is capable of and it does not do RGB colourspace through RGB either, for example)
If you own a CRT which cannot do 480p progressive-scan, I'd say you shouldn't bother with expensive component cables and just go with RGB scart 480i.
If you own a progressive-scan-capable CRT, you might consider it. 480p will definitely appear sharper, but CRT's handle 480i much better in motion (less smearing/artifacts etc.) than HDTV's so the difference between 480i/480p will not be as big on a CRT as it is on an HDTV.
However, if you own an HDTV, the difference bewteen 480i component/RGB vs 480p component is extremely noticeable, certainly in moving video (such as games...
Now, this is where it gets funny. That whole RGB colours are better than component debate does not hold true with the gamecube. Now, I''l quote a very knowledgeable person from another site if that is OK:
''Also the hardware framebuffer uses YUV (actually YUY2) colorspace, so anyone who says the RGB cable gives more accurate colors is wrong.''
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2500&start=300
There, even though its RGB, on gamecube (through its analog or digital port) they colours are just YUV colourspace nonetheless. If I remember correctly, gamecube renders in 24 bit colours, as opposed to full 32 bit.
Carry on
Huh, maybe it's just the Gamecube that has indistinguishable colours on RGB then. I did wonder why when I previously did my comparison, why RGB looked worse or the same in 480i. Thanks for the interesting write up though, I didn't know GC RGB was so neutered, is there even a point to GC VGA mod if it just outputs YUV anyway?
I have never seen a gamecube modded vga cable in person (the quality of it) but I bet it is the same colour wise as VGA (because gamecube frontbuffer is YUV). The VGA signal does however contain video timings, which is why it may be sharper than even component on some displays. With component the timings are guessed/automatically adjusted (and some displays are a little bit off with that) thus resulting in a slightly softer picture vs VGA.
Version 3.0
Member
Quite a heated discussion. My two cents: the Gamecube's color output via component is great. No amount of improvement to an already great color output is worth going to an interlaced signal.
I can't speak to anyone else's financial choices, but if I had to pay top dollar to get 480p, I still would. I used to have to run my Gamecube in 480i to do captures back in the day, and it was always such a nice instant upgrade when I was done capturing and could switch back to 480p.
I can't speak to anyone else's financial choices, but if I had to pay top dollar to get 480p, I still would. I used to have to run my Gamecube in 480i to do captures back in the day, and it was always such a nice instant upgrade when I was done capturing and could switch back to 480p.
Hm... I don't know. For me, I think I prefer playing at 480i on a CRT rather than 480p upscaled on a fixed pixel HDTV...Of course, that is only if you don't have a CRT that natively outputs 480p (and I don't).
So in that limited circumstance (which I'm sure is actually the norm not the exception), the RGB cable is probably the better of the two options in PAL-land due to price and widespread support of the format in most CRTs.
D.Lo
Member
You also have to keep in mind that the DAC in the component cable is superior to the DAC built into the GameCube (which the analogue out uses).
GameCube component is just the most solid, perfect brightness, perfect colours, noise free analogue signal out there.
This is why GameCube component is so revered - that DAC. It's pretty much the best quality analogue ever put out by a console, much better than Xbox, Wii, or PS2 for example. That said, the GameCube's analogue RGB is also equal or superior to most consoles, but it's still a step down from the GCN component cable.
GameCube component is just the most solid, perfect brightness, perfect colours, noise free analogue signal out there.
This is why GameCube component is so revered - that DAC. It's pretty much the best quality analogue ever put out by a console, much better than Xbox, Wii, or PS2 for example. That said, the GameCube's analogue RGB is also equal or superior to most consoles, but it's still a step down from the GCN component cable.
For sure. On a non-480p CRT GC RGB is the best option out there due to its price.
EndlessFloydian
Member
Luigi's Mansion (generic cover art
Wavebird Controller (pretty good shape)
$50 out the door at a local used games store. Just got a Gamecube system a week ago. Am trying to get only a handful of games that I never played or finished back then. Those are:
Chibi Robo
Wario World
Paper Mario: TTYD
...and a couple others I can't think of atm. Tbh, I wouldn't be getting these if Nintendo would VC them or give them the Wind Waker HD treatment.
Also, as is the case with Luigi's Mansion, is there a place that wouldn't mind printing off a few replacement coverart? I know Staples and places alike have issues with copyright images and what not. Have a feeling it will most likely be a YMMV situation.
Wavebird Controller (pretty good shape)
$50 out the door at a local used games store. Just got a Gamecube system a week ago. Am trying to get only a handful of games that I never played or finished back then. Those are:
Chibi Robo
Wario World
Paper Mario: TTYD
...and a couple others I can't think of atm. Tbh, I wouldn't be getting these if Nintendo would VC them or give them the Wind Waker HD treatment.
Also, as is the case with Luigi's Mansion, is there a place that wouldn't mind printing off a few replacement coverart? I know Staples and places alike have issues with copyright images and what not. Have a feeling it will most likely be a YMMV situation.
Version 3.0
Member
I don't know, I can't think of any circumstance where 480i would be preferable. It's not just the interlacing (which may or may not be noticeable), it's the framerate. You're literally losing half the picture, half the frames.
CRT vs. HDTV depends greatly on the TVs in question. Some HDTVs - and I always make sure mine is one of them - do SD content very well. I still have a beautiful CRT to use for my older systems anyway, but that doesn't make me willing to compromise on scaled image quality on the shiny new one.
edit: sorry, just realized on looking again - of course, if you can't get 480p, then nothing I said is relevant to your situation.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah progressive scan on CRTs is a very NTSC thing. I have not come across many PAL TV screens which support 480p.
PAL TV was already a much more stable, more modern, better colour, higher resolution picture than NTSC, so most manufacturers didn't bother adding 480p to PAL sets.
So the question is usually a choice between upscaled 480p on an HDTV, or RGB 480i on a CRT. I have great versions of both (my Panasonic plasma scales 480p very nicely, and I have a 480i only Sony PVM) and the PVM would easily come out on top if it were larger.
PAL TV was already a much more stable, more modern, better colour, higher resolution picture than NTSC, so most manufacturers didn't bother adding 480p to PAL sets.
So the question is usually a choice between upscaled 480p on an HDTV, or RGB 480i on a CRT. I have great versions of both (my Panasonic plasma scales 480p very nicely, and I have a 480i only Sony PVM) and the PVM would easily come out on top if it were larger.
NormalFish
Banned
one thing to mention as far as this debate goes is that there is some evidence that the framemeister distorts some 480i NGC signals, while the 480p signal doesn't get distorted. Not sure what the current state of that debate is, but I think it was FBX who brought it up over on shmups.
I'm in the same boat with a Panny plasma that scales 480p very nicely and a PVM that maxes out at 480i. I use RGB on the PVM and component on the plasma. While the plasma is nice (and the size is a bonus) the PVM definitely comes out on top for me too.
Let's not forget 240p forcing with Swiss too, mmm!
LucidMomentum
Member
Not to derail the display debate, but does anyone know where I can buy replacement L/R analog trigger springs for the original / re-release (not the smash 4 release) gamecube controllers?
I play a lot of smash and the triggers on the Smash 4 release controllers is too loose. I'd prefer to not pay an extra premium for a couple springs, but I'd rather not cannibalize old broken controllers on Ebay to do so.
If I could cut out the middle man and just get spare springs that'd be awesome.
I play a lot of smash and the triggers on the Smash 4 release controllers is too loose. I'd prefer to not pay an extra premium for a couple springs, but I'd rather not cannibalize old broken controllers on Ebay to do so.
If I could cut out the middle man and just get spare springs that'd be awesome.
With the wife and kid gone for the weekend I've been able to play some more of the games that have just been sitting there. I tossed in Metroid Prime and I'm astounded at how good this game looks for coming out I don't know how many years ago. I'm playing on a real GC with component cable, btw , no Wii baloney. The controls are something to get used to as I think we're all accustomed to the Halo-inspired controls that are now universal for FPS's. Enjoying it so far.
, no Wii baloney. The controls are something to get used to as I think we're all accustomed to the Halo-inspired controls that are now universal for FPS's. Enjoying it so far.
D.Lo
Member
Metroid Prime is a true masterpiece.
I remember a review at the time saying 'it's like someone took the best game from five years from now and released it today'.
Such clean graphics, 60fps, incredibly detailed and intricate environments, crazy good music (Kenji Yamamoto knocked it out of the park) and amazing atmosphere.
It's so japanese in style it's hard to believe it was mostly made in Texas!
Control wise, it's basically like 3rd person adventure controls (like say Zelda) except in 1st person. I'm always torn when replaying it between versions, Wii version is pretty awesome and fluid and has widescreen, but the GameCube one was how it was originally designed and is the original experience.
I remember a review at the time saying 'it's like someone took the best game from five years from now and released it today'.
Such clean graphics, 60fps, incredibly detailed and intricate environments, crazy good music (Kenji Yamamoto knocked it out of the park) and amazing atmosphere.
It's so japanese in style it's hard to believe it was mostly made in Texas!
Control wise, it's basically like 3rd person adventure controls (like say Zelda) except in 1st person. I'm always torn when replaying it between versions, Wii version is pretty awesome and fluid and has widescreen, but the GameCube one was how it was originally designed and is the original experience.
I agree with everthing you said. Metroid Prime is a game of rare quality. Still prefer Prime 2 over 1 though. Prime 3 was OK, but definitely a step back in terms of gameplay (rather linear/upgrades/weapons) and enemy design. It does have some weird original things going for it though (pirate homeworld/story narrative), which are decently/good executed; it definitely feels as the end of the trilogy.
On another note, just bought Kirby's airride finally after long hunting, for the price of 25 euros. A bit on the expensive side, but it is hard to come across US/NTSC games here in Europe. Let alone in pristine condition, complete with all booklets, and no bestseller/blacklabel crap. Excited to try it out because I have red some good things about it.
On another note, just bought Kirby's airride finally after long hunting, for the price of 25 euros. A bit on the expensive side, but it is hard to come across US/NTSC games here in Europe. Let alone in pristine condition, complete with all booklets, and no bestseller/blacklabel crap. Excited to try it out because I have red some good things about it.
Amen, one of my fav games on Gamecube and of all time.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
Might be getting a good deal on Fzero Gx soon. But my search for Def Jam fight for ny must continue. I'll find a copy eventually, I hope anyway.
Solidsoul
Banned
So I was recently playing the gamecube version of Twilight Princess on my friends Wii, he uses the component cables and on his HDTV the game was really bad jaggy, which obviously is going to happen. My question is, does the gamecube component cables do much better than the Wii ones? Also is there anything I can do to the TV settings to help the game look better?
NormalFish
Banned
anything better about the resolution? nope. That's not an issue of cables. a better scaler would probably help the IQ, but that's not cheap.
I had a copy of the last one released for the Gamecube for years, and only kept it because it was valuable. I tried playing it a number of times, and it's just... there are other games that do what it does way better. I won't say it isn't good, but it's definitely something you need to have nostalgia for to enjoy.
I love Nintendon't.=p
Lightning_Roller
Banned
Recently bought Resident Evil 4 and Spongebob Squarepants: Battle for Bikini Bottom. RE 4 is really good so far and SB SP: BFBB is a very fun 3D platformer that is kinda like super mario 64. So yeah, both games are good.
BumblebeeCody
Member
I managed to snag myself a copy of Giftpia for £20. So happy. Really awesome game and I'm loving it so far.
BumblebeeCody
Member
BumblebeeCody
Member
If you did find it, I'd be pretty appreciative of that. Would like to make sure I experience this game fully. If not, thanks anyway. I've been using the translation guide
