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The Nu Metal Thread - 9guys1band

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B

beato_angelico

Member
It was more that it introduced a lot of people to a heavier sound while still retaining some accessibility to it. It was more aggressive than most of the music they'd heard up to that point without being too abrasive.
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I agree that it was an effective gateway to less mainstream music to many people... but I think it's reductive to talk only about being "aggressive" or "abrasive", we should talk about being good or not. I remember that around 2006 I searched and searched for nu metal bands that I could like besides the usual suspects (Korn, Deftones)... and I found none.

This is a genre that got a lot of hate, often for the wrong reasons, but really the nu metal scene was incredibly shallow. It was music for 14 years old boys and outside of a few bands it's best to forget it, at least musically... then of course there's nostalgia, but that's another thing.
 
T

Toski

Member
beato_angelico said:
I agree that it was an effective gateway to less mainstream music to many people... but I think it's reductive to talk only about being "aggressive" or "abrasive", we should talk about being good or not. I remember that around 2006 I searched and searched for nu metal bands that I could like besides the usual suspects (Korn, Deftones)... and I found none.

This is a genre that got a lot of hate, often for the wrong reasons, but really the nu metal scene was incredibly shallow. It was music for 14 years old boys and outside of a few bands it's best to forget it, at least musically... then of course there's nostalgia, but that's another thing.
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The reason it was shallow was there was no cohesion in the "genre." You're telling me that Korn, Deftones, Limp Bizkit (These three bands were the "Nu-Metal" staple), Adema, Linkin Park, OTEP, Mudvayne, Spineshank, Crazy Town, Incubus, Rammstein, American Head Charge, Powerman 5000, Hed PE, Slipknot, System of A Down, Disturbed, Evanescence, POD etc. were all in the same genre? There was no Nu-Metal genre. What Grunge was to the early 90's, Nu-Metal was to the late 90's-early 00's.
 
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beato_angelico

Member
you could say that for a lot of genres (popular example: burial and skrillex are both "dubstep" yet sound completely different). Yet I think "nu metal" was a real thing because most of those band just followed the wind (or the money). They saw Korn having success, they listened to early 90s alt-rock like Alice in Chains and NIN and they followed, in other words the "second wave" was terribly derivative and usually awful.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Seanspeed said:
You act as if most people just straight up go from radio rock to Cryptopsy or something. Most people grow their taste in heavier stuff in stages. And not everybody finds heavier and heavier appealing. For some people, 'nu metal' levels of heavy are exactly their limit.
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hah, Cryptospy! I remember jamming to that in the car with my friend and thinking to myself. "I think I've talking my liking of heavy metal too far!" I went from Motley Crue/Guns N Roses, to Megadeth/Metallica, to Slayer/Pantera and now somehow we got all the way here. EXTREME! Well, not really with bands like Anal Cunt and crazy stuff like Pungent Stench... but grindcore was never really my thing anyway. It's just not catchy enough. Hell, Angel of Death is a catchy ass song.

Speaking off, I didn't get Reign in Blood until ten years after it came out. Why? because it was too evil, lol! I didn't know how many times I must have listened to that on day one. Yup, good albums are good forever. I actually didn't get into Priest/Maiden until AFTER I started getting into thrash metal. Some of this stuff will be remembered fondly as well.
Having been at one point a metal purest, I might have missed out on some good stuff too.
 
M

MoonsaultSlayer

Member
In high school, I was a nu metal fan mainly listening to Limp Bizkit and Primer 55. But since HS, Mudvayne's 'The end of all things to come' is the only album of the genre that stays in my rotation. Such an amazing album. LD 50 is good, but comes across too angsty which is why I don't listen to the genre anymore. TEoATtC is more like being told a story while on the back of a shooting star on a galactic voyage.

Edit: one that starts from the airwaves as an anti-censhorship song blasts from the speakers. (the most personal and angsty song on the album)
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Toski said:
The reason it was shallow was there was no cohesion in the "genre." You're telling me that Korn, Deftones, Limp Bizkit (These three bands were the "Nu-Metal" staple), Adema, Linkin Park, OTEP, Mudvayne, Spineshank, Crazy Town, Incubus, Rammstein, American Head Charge, Powerman 5000, Hed PE, Slipknot, System of A Down, Disturbed, Evanescence, POD etc. were all in the same genre? There was no Nu-Metal scene. What Grunge was to the early 90's, Nu-Metal was to the late 90's-early 00's.
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Yeah Slipknot and Link Park were a lot farther apart than say Warrant and Poison.
 
T

Toski

Member
beato_angelico said:
you could say that for a lot of genres (popular example: burial and skrillex are both "dubstep" yet sound completely different). Yet I think "nu metal" was a real thing because most of those band just followed the wind (or the money). They saw Korn having success, they listened to early 90s alt-rock like Alice in Chains and NIN and they followed, in other words the "second wave" was terribly derivative and usually awful.
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Skrillex and Burial are still closer in their genre than Bionic Jive and Slipknot. Thats why I said Rapcore =/= Nu-Metal. Was Fear Factory Nu-Metal? What about STYE-era In Flames or Damage Done/Character/Fiction-era Dark Tranquility?

I agree Nu-Metal was a scene, but in hindsight it was two genres combined into one through pure marketing.
 
T

Toski

Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I always hear about the "cookie monster vocals" claims, but what about legit genres with screaming, guttural vocals?
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Nu-Metal was the gateway to Extreme Metal for many people, including myself. While Metalcore was more "Metal" than Nu-Metal, I think Nu-Metal had the better vocalists. Chad on LD50 & TEoATtC nailed it with OTEP trying. Jon Davis had some surprisingly harsh vox on Untouchables and TALiTM.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Toski said:
Nu-Metal was the gateway to Extreme Metal for many people, including myself. While Metalcore was more "Metal" than Nu-Metal, I think Nu-Metal had the better vocalists. Chad on LD50 & TEoATtC nailed it with OTEP trying. Jon Davis had some surprisingly harsh vox on Untouchables and TALiTM.
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Jon Davis loves Cannibal Corpse!

1235658859100_f.jpg
Jonathan+Davis+JD+Rock+On+The+Range+160509.jpg
 
J

jmdajr

Member
You should all watch this.

Metal Evolution- Nu metal

fredd_zps6ac42921.jpg
metalevo_zps4a7a8d31.jpg
nu_zps7fa89e3e.jpg



This guy does a documentary on all the sub genre's, and this one is about good ol' nu metal.
It's worth a spin to see what this metal purest thinks of it. A lot is his opinion along with the history, so don't take it all as fact.
It's not just some dude on Youtube with a crappy show, it aired on VH1 as a series. It's done well.

edit: Love it when John Davis blames Fred Durst for starting the Woodstock riots.
 
M

MoonsaultSlayer

Member
jmdajr said:
Well Cannibal Corpse is still touring and putting out albums. They don't need day jobs. I find them catchy too!

PIT OF ZOMBIES!
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Toski said:
Nu-Metal was the gateway to Extreme Metal for many people, including myself. While Metalcore was more "Metal" than Nu-Metal, I think Nu-Metal had the better vocalists. Chad on LD50 & TEoATtC nailed it with OTEP trying. Jon Davis had some surprisingly harsh vox on Untouchables and TALiTM.
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I meant why aren't other screamy genres mocked? Or are they?

One of my favorite bands is Horse the Band who share certain characteristics to nu metal I guess but are more considered post-hardcore...? But they have screaming vocals and find some inspiration from Deicide.
 
T

Toski

Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I meant why aren't other screamy genres mocked? Or are they?

One of my favorite bands is Horse the Band who share certain characteristics to nu metal I guess but are more considered post-hardcore...? But they have screaming vocals and find some inspiration from Deicide.
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jmdajr said:
Because they are not mainstream. People don't even know they exist. Might be an exaggeration but people can't be bothered by it.
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Metal is dead outside of those who like it. People know about Death Metal, Black Metal etc. but they don't care about it as long as it isn't annoying them. The "cookie monster vox" or black metal/aggrotech vox might as well not exist in the mainstream as jmdajr said.
 
B

beato_angelico

Member
Toski said:
Skrillex and Burial are still closer in their genre than Bionic Jive and Slipknot. Thats why I said Rapcore =/= Nu-Metal. Was Fear Factory Nu-Metal? What about STYE-era In Flames or Damage Done/Character/Fiction-era Dark Tranquility?

I agree Nu-Metal was a scene, but in hindsight it was two genres combined into one through pure marketing.
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the way I see it nu metal was a subgenre of a much broader "alternative metal", which really includes almost everyone you mentioned (except dark tranquillity and maybe incubus).

also, a lot of these band came from california, especially southern california. not a coincidence.
 
W

Witchfinder General

punched Wheelchair Mike
Nu-Metal's derision doesn't so much stem from the low-tuned guitars, the lack of solos, the seemingly endless number of superfluous band members or the occasional rap element. No, Nu-Metal is derided because it is shit. There are plenty of albums that have many of the above elements that are fantastic. They excel because they rise above the gimmick status and focus on proper song writing.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Witchfinder General said:
Nu-Metal's derision doesn't so much stem from the low-tuned guitars, the lack of solos, the seemingly endless number of superfluous band members or the occasional rap element. No, Nu-Metal is derided because it is shit. There are plenty of albums that have many of the above elements that are fantastic. They excel because they rise above the gimmick status and focus on proper song writing.
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Well I guess that's your opinion. To me the derision comes from the fact that it's wasn't metal enough for the metal heads and too extreme for people into mainstream music. So it's like some sort of bastard child. A lot of these bands didn't even want to be called metal. They just wanted to be a heavy rock band with their own twist. Like some others have said, it was a gateway to other music for people so I see it as a good thing. It might just be heavy pop music like glam metal was, but so what.. I like pop music as well. It all has it's place. Not everything has to be prog wankery.
 
T

Toski

Member
beato_angelico said:
the way I see it nu metal was a subgenre of a much broader "alternative metal", which really includes almost everyone you mentioned (except dark tranquillity and maybe incubus).

also, a lot of these band came from california, especially southern california. not a coincidence.
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You think STYE-era In Flames & Fear Factory are Nu-Metal? Not disagreeing completely, but I find it interesting. Also good catch with most of those bands coming from SoCal, although FreddyD did give Fear Factory a shout out.
Witchfinder General said:
Nu-Metal's derision doesn't so much stem from the low-tuned guitars, the lack of solos, the seemingly endless number of superfluous band members or the occasional rap element. No, Nu-Metal is derided because it is shit. There are plenty of albums that have many of the above elements that are fantastic. They excel because they rise above the gimmick status and focus on proper song writing.
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Can you name these albums off they top of your head? I'm interested in these bands as long as they're not RATM or "proto Nu-Metal" bands.

jmdajr said:
Well I guess that's your opinion. To me the derision comes from the fact that it's wasn't metal enough for the metal heads and too extreme for people into mainstream music. So it's like some sort of bastard child. A lot of these bands didn't even want to be called metal. They just wanted to be a heavy rock band with their own twist.
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Except for Slipknot. They wanted to be "True Metal" so bad, and when the metal heads said they weren't "True Metal" is was lol.
 
B

beato_angelico

Member
You think STYE-era In Flames & Fear Factory are Nu-Metal? Not disagreeing completely, but I find it interesting
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as I said, not nu metal, but definitely alternative metal (whatever that means). Fear Factory might be more debatable, they can certainly be considered just industrial metal, but I think they are closer to alt-metal than other metal subgeneres like thrash or death.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Toski said:
You think STYE-era In Flames & Fear Factory are Nu-Metal? Not disagreeing completely, but I find it interesting. Also good catch with most of those bands coming from SoCal, although FreddyD did give Fear Factory a shout out.

Can you name these albums off they top of your head? I'm interested in these bands as long as they're not RATM or "proto Nu-Metal" bands.


Except for Slipknot. They wanted to be "True Metal" so bad, and when the metal heads said they weren't "True Metal" is was lol.
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I always thought Fear factory was industrial meets thrash/death metal. Heck the contrast of clean and harsh vocals was pretty unique for the time at least to me. In Flames STYE is an excellent album. I spend a lot of time listening to electronic music side by side with metal and I thought it was a cool mix. But somehow it's nu metal. So yeah when both electronic music and hip hop are part of nu metal, it sure makes it into a pretty big fucking pool.

I don't have any problem with Slipknot. Awesome show, awesome crowds. It was good times.
 
W

Witchfinder General

punched Wheelchair Mike
Toski said:
Can you name these albums off they top of your head? I'm interested in these bands as long as they're not RATM or "proto Nu-Metal" bands.
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Sure:

Misery Loves Co. - Not Like Them
Machine Head - The Burning Red
Stuck Mojo - Rising
Stolen Babies - There Be Squabbles Ahead ( more avant garde than Nu-Metal strictly speaking)

That's just off the top off my head. If I went through my music collection I'd find heaps more.
 
A

agrajag

Banned
lol, FF was not nu metal, at least it didn't start out that way. I think their later albums though were influenced by the desire to be more mainstream, when they started hanging out with the guys from Cypress Hill and such.

nu metal? plz
 
T

Toski

Member
jmdajr said:
I always thought Fear factory was industrial meets thrash/death metal. Heck the contrast of clean and harsh vocals was pretty unique for the time at least to me. In Flames STYE is an excellent album. I spend a lot of time listening to electronic music side by side with metal and I thought it was a cool mix. But somehow it's nu metal. So yeah when both electronic music and hip hop are part of nu metal, it sure makes it into a pretty big fucking pool.

I don't have any problem with Slipknot. Awesome show, awesome crowds. It was good times.
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The best crowd
Witchfinder General said:
Sure:

Misery Loves Co. - Not Like Them
Machine Head - The Burning Red
Stuck Mojo - Rising
Stolen Babies - There Be Squabbles Ahead ( more avant garde than Nu-Metal strictly speaking)

That's just off the top off my head. If I went through my music collection I'd find heaps more.
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Thanks. I find it funny that Stuck Mojo released a song called "Metal is Dead" though lol.
 
M

Moofers

Member
Captain_Spanky said:
In honour of my new music-bro Moofers I am cranking American Head Charge's The War Of Art and drinking a beer on this lovely summer day.

The opening track, A Violent Reaction, is well good!
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That whole ablum rocks! Singer has some real pipes, man. One of the small number of singers from that era of metal that I think actually has a great singing voice with real range. Its a shame the hell that band went through.

Also, METAL BROS!

Toski said:
The reason it was shallow was there was no cohesion in the "genre." You're telling me that Korn, Deftones, Limp Bizkit (These three bands were the "Nu-Metal" staple), Adema, Linkin Park, OTEP, Mudvayne, Spineshank, Crazy Town, Incubus, Rammstein, American Head Charge, Powerman 5000, Hed PE, Slipknot, System of A Down, Disturbed, Evanescence, POD etc. were all in the same genre? There was no Nu-Metal genre. What Grunge was to the early 90's, Nu-Metal was to the late 90's-early 00's.
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You sir, know your shit. This is an excellent point that I think a lot of critics of these bands fail to recognize. They aren't all the same. Just because you didn't like Linkin Park doesn't mean you can lump every other band from the late 90's early 00's into that and say they're all "nu metal crap".
 
A

agrajag

Banned
J

jmdajr

Member
Heh even bands like say Motley Crue/Guns n Roses hate to be lumped in with say Poison or Bon Jovi.

But really, Does Shout at the Devil/Appetite sound like anything Poison put out?
Fuck no.

But it's all glam rock right?
 
A

AdventureMike

Member
Man, first time reading through a thread about nu-metal and I am somewhat taken aback that so many take the labelling of the genre as the equivalent of an insult rather than just...you know...a genre. Like it somehow shames you that a band you like could be attributed closely to it.
 
R

Ramsiege

Member
While I used to listen to a lot of these bands back in the day, I don't really anymore. Except for Linkin Park. I still fuckin' love me some Linkin Park.

Seriously, Hybrid Theory was awesome, Meteora was crap, Minutes to Midnight I loved since it wasn't Hybrid Theory part 3, A Thousand Suns is amazing (if you haven't heard this album, get a really good pair of headphones, close your eyes, don't skip any tracks, and go along for an epic ride), and Living Things was rather meh but still has a few gems on it, such as Castle of Glass and Tinfoil into Powerless.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Ramsiege said:
While I used to listen to a lot of these bands back in the day, I don't really anymore. Except for Linkin Park. I still fuckin' love me some Linkin Park.

Seriously, Hybrid Theory was awesome, Meteora was crap, Minutes to Midnight I loved since it wasn't Hybrid Theory part 3, A Thousand Suns is amazing (if you haven't heard this album, get a really good pair of headphones, close your eyes, don't skip any tracks, and go along for an epic ride), and Living Things was rather meh but still has a few gems on it, such as Castle of Glass and Tinfoil into Powerless.
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Heh I remember seeing a commercial for them on TV for their first album. I was like "wtf is this bullshit. Who the fuck is going to buy this crap?"

JOKES ON ME
 
T

Toski

Member
Ramsiege said:
While I used to listen to a lot of these bands back in the day, I don't really anymore. Except for Linkin Park. I still fuckin' love me some Linkin Park.

Seriously, Hybrid Theory was awesome, Meteora was crap, Minutes to Midnight I loved since it wasn't Hybrid Theory part 3, A Thousand Suns is amazing (if you haven't heard this album, get a really good pair of headphones, close your eyes, don't skip any tracks, and go along for an epic ride), and Living Things was rather meh but still has a few gems on it, such as Castle of Glass and Tinfoil into Powerless.
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Linkin Park fell off the hardest IMO, and thats saying a lot when comparing them to Papa Roach lol.

show me your skeleton said:
wow, that's pretty shameless. sounds like something you'd find on kazaa, labelled as BRAND NEW KORN SONG (UNRELEASED DEMO) or something.
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It seems Korn is ok with it, as Flymore opened for them. I'm just amazed they could clone everything with such precision, down to Fieldy's tone.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Toski said:
Linkin Park fell off the hardest IMO, and thats saying a lot when comparing them to Papa Roach lol.
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Well the first album (hybrid theory) sold 10 million copies.... new one sold 600,000.

Appetite for Destruction sales! 18 million!

woooooo!

Nevermind 12 million.

Glam rock/Grunge/Nu....

guess you could argue it got progressively heavier

edit: Oh hey, Black Album sold 16 million. NICE.
 
R

Ramsiege

Member
Toski said:
Linkin Park fell off the hardest IMO, and thats saying a lot when comparing them to Papa Roach lol.
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I obviously disagree. They're the only band from back then to really venture out of their original sound and actually grow and push themselves.
 
T

Toski

Member
Ramsiege said:
I obviously disagree. They're the only band from back then to really venture out of their original sound and actually grow and push themselves.
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I disagree as well. :p

I think they should've gotten harder and tried to expand on their Nu-Metal sound instead of putting out "A Thousand Suns." When I heard that album, I knew Linkin Park was dead to me.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Ramsiege said:
I obviously disagree. They're the only band from back then to really venture out of their original sound and actually grow and push themselves.
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I don't know much about that band (Linkin park), but Korn had some experimental albums. Slipknot also doesn't sound exactly the same. It's not like the keep rewriting the first album. But sure, it's not like they are QUEEN either.
 
A

AdventureMike

Member
Toski said:
I disagree as well. :p

I think they should've gotten harder and tried to expand on their Nu-Metal sound instead of putting out "A Thousand Suns." When I heard that album, I knew Linkin Park was dead to me.
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Aye, despite liking a couple songs like "Burn it down" and "Castle of Glass" recently, I wish they still sounded similar to how they did off the Hybrid Theory album. They have just diverted so far from their original formula.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Did Linkin' Park get rid of the hip hop elements? If so I might actually listen to it. Not to poop on hip hop, but that dude never seemed like he was even good at "rapping." Just my opinion.
 
A

Accoun

Member
Well, Slipknot are considered Nu-Metal and I loved their s/t back in the day. Nowadays, it's not THAT great (it has a few bad songs and the production is kinda too muddy), but most of it is still really good and there are really killer tracks on it, like Eyeless.
I didn't like their later albums as wholes, only particular songs. Like Iowa, I recently rediscovered it and while the album is pretty meh, the title track kicks asses.

I remember liking SOAD's debut as well. LP's Hybrid Theory was maybe bearable last time I listened to it.
Actually, I had a friend who still listens to them and I must admit, one of the small "inbetween" tracks was actually pretty nice when he played them in his car.
Haven't heard them in a long time, though.



I'm guilty of nothing else. ;-)
 
T

Toski

Member
jmdajr said:
Did Linkin' Park get rid of the hip hop elements? If so I might actually listen to it. Not to poop on hip hop, but that dude never seemed like he was even good at "rapping." Just my opinion.
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They replaced it with Indie/Hipster pandering. Old Linkin Park is a breath of fresh air compared to whats out now. This is the only song I liked off their new album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNv5g_9EliQ

You should try Fort Minor: The Rising Tied. Its better than any Linkin Park album save for Reanimation. For some reason Mike actually shines.
 
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