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[Cromulent_Word]

Sshhh!

sorry - i meant to say that everyone on GAF are 12-14 years old and require chocolate milk immediately after starting a round of halos.

 

[Totz]

We don't have any full time designers and I've been in charge of most of the writing, for better or worse.

What else do you do there?

 

[ragingadamo]

not that i really care, but you do realize that many of the people you are being confrontational with actually work (or have worked) in the games industry, some for a long time. Some even in positions where they actually do hiring.

most people with experience (and wisdom) understand that there is no way to guarantee a job in games beyond talent, infallible motivation and a lot of luck.

Not sure why i felt the need to write this, beyond the fact that i feel anyone resting on a 'guarantee' for a way into games is in for a rude awakening.

I actually envy him. He has figured out the entirety of the game industry without working a single day. . .

 

[beat]

not that i really care, but you do realize that many of the people you are being confrontational with actually work (or have worked) in the games industry, some for a long time. Some even in positions where they actually do hiring.

Next interview I get, I'm definitely asking the applicant what their GAF handle is. (Not that I'll fail them if they won't tell me, of course. That would be silly.) And also, not to imply I'm in a hiring position; but IME companies like to get a full round of interviews in, even with the peers and underlings of the potential new hire.

 

[Zanboo]

To the devs:

I've been looking to enter the industry for an entry level production position (either associate or assistant)

Unfortunately the only experience that I have is through mod work, although I do believe it to be strong.

Project Valkyrie, Resistance and Liberation, Frontline Force

I've gotten my CV out there as much as possible and have been as persistent as possible, but I don't seem to be getting the returns on it.

I realize that mod work is very different from professional development, but I was hoping that what we did with Project Valkyrie would garner some interest (Three month development time, agile development, strict milestones and guidelines and a strong, small team) but it appears to just be another bullet point.

Any of you guys (especially in the production area) have any good advice for strengthening my CV beyond non-professional work? I'm really jonesing to get into the industry on the production side.

 

[Iaido Sword]

not that i really care, but you do realize that many of the people you are being confrontational with actually work (or have worked) in the games industry, some for a long time. Some even in positions where they actually do hiring.

most people with experience (and wisdom) understand that there is no way to guarantee a job in games beyond talent, infallible motivation and a lot of luck.

Not sure why i felt the need to write this, beyond the fact that i feel anyone resting on a 'guarantee' for a way into games is in for a rude awakening.

Sounds like you think I believe that my school is an easy sail into the industry.

You're wrong.

This school will beat you down if you don't work hard. Working hard creates the skills that is synonymous with talent. No one has the natural ability to do develop games. Saying that you need to be a Picasso in order to work in the game industry is the incorrect way of telling someone how to get in it. It's absolutely retarded.

I'm in the game design program, but I need to know how an artist works. I need to learn a bit about drawing, so I am thrown into a drawing course. One of my assignments is a self portrait and, boy, my drawing of myself is a piece of crap. I'm no Van Gogh. I haven't drawn anything at that level in my life, but I don't give up and say I don't have the talent. I go back and bust out like 15 more self portraits and improve immensely. I hand in my final copy and it is on par with the modelers and animators. I get an A for that assignment.

In the end, you get a portfolio. Everyone will get a portfolio and the hardest workers may get a head start since their portfolio will no doubt have more to show. Along with the portfolio, you need to show team work skills, social skills, discipline, and problem solving. Those skills are not created with talent. They are created by working with other people and creating social networks.

 

[Laeth]

To the devs:

I've been looking to enter the industry for an entry level production position (either associate or assistant)

Unfortunately the only experience that I have is through mod work, although I do believe it to be strong.

Project Valkyrie, Resistance and Liberation, Frontline Force

I've gotten my CV out there as much as possible and have been as persistent as possible, but I don't seem to be getting the returns on it.

I realize that mod work is very different from professional development, but I was hoping that what we did with Project Valkyrie would garner some interest (Three month development time, agile development, strict milestones and guidelines and a strong, small team) but it appears to just be another bullet point.

Any of you guys (especially in the production area) have any good advice for strengthening my CV beyond non-professional work? I'm really jonesing to get into the industry on the production side.

Production is a tough cookie to crack, as it doesn't have any real direct route. Most producers have taken a horizontal move across from another disciple (i.e. programming, design, etc.).

HOWEVER... I've got several friends in several different studios who work as producers who haven't come from an actual development position; they came from QA. QA is by far the best way to get into a production role in games - having mod work will help a lot when it comes to the interview, but unless you have some direct work experience in QA (preferably Senior or Lead positions), don't expect any kind of call backs.

We recently moved someone from QA to a production assistant role (they had only been in QA for 9 months or so)... so it definitely does occur. Try and find yourself a QA position at a local developer and take it from there .

That's my advice anyways.

 

[Laeth]

*snip*

The chances of you landing a game design role directly out of school, are very very slim (not impossible mind). If you're exceptionally good at level design (lots of work examples, popular mods etc.) then you'll be able to get yourself a level design role, which is great ^_^.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

To the devs:

I've been looking to enter the industry for an entry level production position (either associate or assistant)

Unfortunately the only experience that I have is through mod work, although I do believe it to be strong.

Project Valkyrie, Resistance and Liberation, Frontline Force

I've gotten my CV out there as much as possible and have been as persistent as possible, but I don't seem to be getting the returns on it.

I realize that mod work is very different from professional development, but I was hoping that what we did with Project Valkyrie would garner some interest (Three month development time, agile development, strict milestones and guidelines and a strong, small team) but it appears to just be another bullet point.

Any of you guys (especially in the production area) have any good advice for strengthening my CV beyond non-professional work? I'm really jonesing to get into the industry on the production side.

Other than managing a large mod development or other smaller game projects, there's nothing I can really think of except maybe taking some project management courses or getting production or PM experience in other industries. A lot of Production hires are from within the industry, sometimes from other disciplines entirely but these people usually are leaving a lead/manager type roll when they switch over.

Your best shot right now would be for something like Production Coordinator or Production Assistant, but you'd be much better off trying to get in from an alternate path like QA. Good QA leads end up doing comparable work to an AP, which is a career path many have taken. Otherwise, you need to get a good deal of production/PM experience elsewhere (TV/movies, other software development, etc).

 

[ragingadamo]

Sounds like you think I believe that my school is an easy sail into the industry.

You're wrong.

This school will beat you down if you don't work hard. Working hard creates the skills that is synonymous with talent. No one has the natural ability to do develop games. Saying that you need to be a Picasso in order to work in the game industry is the incorrect way of telling someone how to get in it. It's absolutely retarded.
.

I disagree with you. Think of the last bad game you played. I am sure that those people who made it had worked their asses off to get it out the door.

Hard work is not enough to be a good designer. It is not about being born with a talent but it is about knowing what is fun and what will work with gameplay. When you get a job in the industry you will see the difference between a good and bad designer.

If game design was as easy as you say it is there would be a lot more good games out there.

 

[Iaido Sword]

The chances of you landing a game design role directly out of school, are very very slim (not impossible mind). If you're exceptionally good at level design (lots of work examples, popular mods etc.) then you'll be able to get yourself a level design role, which is great ^_^.

My instructor who actually came out of the same school landed directly into a designer job out of school.

He does suggest going into QA first as being a designer without experience is daunting. Depending on how well I'm going to handle the game production, I may be able to handle getting into designing right away if it is offered.

If I can lead a team and pull of an awesome game to show off at the IGF to win like my friend had (though he stuck himself is some slacker studio), then I will no fear about going straight into design.

I disagree with you. Think of the last bad game you played. I am sure that those people who made it had worked their asses off to get it out the door.

Hard work is not enough to be a good designer. It is not about being born with a talent but it is about knowing what is fun and what will work with gameplay. When you get a job in the industry you will see the difference between a good and bad designer.

If game design was as easy as you say it is there would be a lot more good games out there.

Again, you think my school is easy. Think otherwise.

 

[bishoptl]

Lol, they'll tell you that there is no talent.
They'll tell you that the brilliant geniuses that don't do the work get the McDonald's jobs in the end.

It's all about social networking and hard work.

And guess what, most of them came out of that school.

Uh huh.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The chances of you landing a game design role directly out of school, are very very slim (not impossible mind). If you're exceptionally good at level design (lots of work examples, popular mods etc.) then you'll be able to get yourself a level design role, which is great ^_^.

Pretty much. This is a really competitive industry - graduates aren't just competing with each other for entry-level positions, but other people already in the industry looking to move up as well. And most companies are inclined to develop and retain their own people first.

Again, it's not impossible, and there are ways to get yourself an edge through connections and/or internships. But if someone looking to fill an entry-level designer position had to choose between a new graduate with no real industry experience and someone who's been in QA for 2 years, moved up to Assistant Lead, is already familiar with the company and their development process, trained themselves on how to use the company's in-house tools and pipelines, and has worked with several of the company's developers directly - the graduate better have a very very impressive portfolio and immaculate references to stand a chance.

 

[White Man]

I just checked, you can't have one.

I'll be your fluffer if you put me in the credits of one of your games again. Can I be Associate Stewardess or something like that?

 

[twinturbo2]

Lua is a common scripting language; so if you want to become a designer then yes... you should .

Okay, is there any good literature on Lua that I should look at?

 

[sugaki]

The conventional route to getting into the industry is starting as entry-level QA (tester). Then go up to lead QA, then branch out.

Some people make parallel jumps, like editors. Editors work for a pub, get burned out (or get disgruntled due to low pay), then jump into the development side like product management, or get into PR (makes more money than editorial).

Key to being successful is 1) don't be a crazy weirdo (surprisingly this weeds out a fair amount) 2) be professional 3) be prepared for a slow, often painful, climb.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

You go to USC? Fight On!

Oh wait you go to one of those game design paper mills. Yeah good luck with that one.

I chose UVA over USC and this post is making me regret that decision. I just graduated high school and applied as a compsci major. However, I chose UVA because I am honestly very iffy about whether I even want to go into compsci at all, and UVA is the better school overall. It doesn't mean much to me anymore, and I don't think I will work in a games company anyways, but out of curiosity, is USC really that well known in the games industry?

 

[Iaido Sword]

Pretty much. This is a really competitive industry - graduates aren't just competing with each other for entry-level positions, but other people already in the industry looking to move up as well. And most companies are inclined to develop and retain their own people first.

Again, it's not impossible, and there are ways to get yourself an edge through connections and/or internships. But if someone looking to fill an entry-level designer position had to choose between a new graduate with no real industry experience and someone who's been in QA for 2 years, moved up to Assistant Lead, is already familiar with the company and their development process, trained themselves on how to use the company's in-house tools and pipelines, and has worked with several of the company's developers directly - the graduate better have a very very impressive portfolio and immaculate references to stand a chance.

Of course Laeth is correct about the QA situation. Most designers will have to go that route, but the part that I bolded is what I'm using to argue against these people who think talent is all that matters.

I'll be able to build an impressive portfolio at school. My instructors are working directly from the industry, so I am already getting those references; I'm working directly under them and showing them my abilities, which is the best way of getting their reference and referral.

I have a friend at Radical, I'm getting to know someone from EA, someone from Hothead studios who was a former designer from Relic, and I got another friend working in a smaller studio. This is just a tip of the iceberg of what kind of networking I'm going to have when I come out of school. That, with the hard work, is what gets you into the industry. It is not pure talent.

 

[sugaki]

Oh the other thing is the games industry is a very small industry, in that everybody knows each other. Word travels around quick--if you're known as a slacker, difficult to deal with, socially awkward, etc, it gets hard to find a good full-time gig. Hence networking is very important, as the poster above mentioned.

 

[ragingadamo]

Again, you think my school is easy. Think otherwise.

Please show in quotes where I said that. I am saying that hard work is not enough to make you a good designer.

 

[twinturbo2]

The conventional route to getting into the industry is starting as entry-level QA (tester). Then go up to lead QA, then branch out.

Some people make parallel jumps, like editors. Editors work for a pub, get burned out (or get disgruntled due to low pay), then jump into the development side like product management, or get into PR (makes more money than editorial).

Key to being successful is 1) don't be a crazy weirdo (surprisingly this weeds out a fair amount) 2) be professional 3) be prepared for a slow, often painful, climb.

Got it, and way OT, but I love your tag.

 

[Torquill]

sorry - i meant to say that everyone on GAF are 12-14 years old and require chocolate milk immediately after starting a round of halos.

Can't it be both? I do love me some chocolate milk. Though, not so much the halos.

What else do you do there?

Primarily programming, though since we make heavy use of Torque I'm usually scripting in Torquescript more often than I'm actually working in a proper programming language. We do make engine modificaitons in C++ pretty frequently, so I do get to code .

 

[TheClimaxan]

Here's a question for those who work within the gaming industry:

The general consensus is that getting into games on the writing side is damn near impossible early on in one's career. That I understand, but how exactly does the marketing/PR/advertising side of the game industry operate in terms of offering entry-level positions?

Just wondering, because I well, I just graduate with two degrees one in Media Writing and another in Communication Studies and that's a side of the game industry I would like to explore if they are hiring. (You should be recieving my resume soon Epic!)

 

[XiaNaphryz]

It doesn't mean much to me anymore, and I don't think I will work in a games company anyways, but out of curiosity, is USC really that well known in the games industry?

I think it's more "closer proximity to more companies" more than anything, considering how many are in California.

 

[Mercutio]

Of course Laeth is correct about the QA situation. Most designers will have to go that route, but the part that I bolded is what I'm using to argue against these people who think talent is all that matters.

I'll be able to build an impressive portfolio at school. My instructors are working directly from the industry, so I am already getting those references; I'm working directly under them and showing them my abilities, which is the best way of getting their reference and referral.

I have a friend at Radical, I'm getting to know someone from EA, someone from Hothead studios who was a former designer from Relic, and I got another friend working in a smaller studio. This is just a tip of the iceberg of what kind of networking I'm going to have when I come out of school. That, with the hard work, is what gets you into the industry. It is not pure talent.

Why do you continually make this about your references and your connections? Who are you trying to convince of your foretold brilliance, us or you?

 

[firehawk12]

Frontline Force

I have no influence whatsoever... but hire this person. Frontline Force was one of the most underrated HL mods ever. Freaking DoD and CS...

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Here's a question for those who work within the gaming industry:

The general consensus is that getting into games on the writing side is damn near impossible early on in one's career. That I understand, but how exactly does the marketing/PR/advertising side of the game industry operate in terms of offering entry-level positions?

You're more likely to find entry-level positions for these fields at a publisher than a developer-only studio. Try checking those types of company websites for openings.

I have a friend at Radical, I'm getting to know someone from EA, someone from Hothead studios who was a former designer from Relic, and I got another friend working in a smaller studio. This is just a tip of the iceberg of what kind of networking I'm going to have when I come out of school. That, with the hard work, is what gets you into the industry. It is not pure talent.

I think this is what most people in the thread are taking issue with. Whatever "iceberg" you think your network graph will look like after school likely isn't going to be all that large in reality, and you shouldn't be setting your expectations too high.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Please show in quotes where I said that. I am saying that hard work is not enough to make you a good designer.

You may not have meant it, but you implied it.

If game design was as easy as you say it is there would be a lot more good games out there.

I'm in school for game design and I'm learning that it is hard work. I know it's not easy as you thought I had said.

Now, hard work is all that there is to be good at anything unless you're god sent. To be a great game designer, you have to know how to run a team, be analytical, and how to think outside the box. All of those can be trained, and it is the training done in my school.

You can't experience teamwork at home making a mod on your own. You can't train your discipline without having a standard criteria and timeline to meet. These things are just hard work.

I think it's more "closer proximity to more companies" more than anything, considering how many are in California.

I wanted to share this tidbit even though it is old.

EGM Jan 2003 reported on what is the top 5 schools for game development.

Digipen
University of Advancing Technologies
Fullsail
The Art Institutes
Academy of Interactive Entertainment

Why do you continually make this about your references and your connections? Who are you trying to convince of your foretold brilliance, us or you?

I think this is what most people in the thread are taking issue with. Whatever "iceberg" you think your network graph will look like after school likely isn't going to be all that large in reality, and you shouldn't be setting your expectations too high.

So if you're going to be a designer, who do you know right at this moment. Who do you know and how will you get to know them?

 

[Torquill]

EGM Jan 2003 reported on what is the top 5 schools for game development.

The one I hear the most praise for these days is Guildhall, but I dont' think they have undergrad degrees.

 

[beat]

Okay, is there any good literature on Lua that I should look at?

Lua has a fine official wiki and web tutorial and I'm pretty sure the official manual is also online. Just get cracking with Lua. It's an interpreted language, like BASIC, so you can just jump in and start typing out variables and functions and immediately see what'll happen.

Who do you know and how will you get to know them?

When I was starting out, I knew people from having interned at a studio, my former classmates, and also - I am not making this up - from the local arcade scene. (Granted, this was like -years- back; arcades weren't fully dead then.)

 

[Iaido Sword]

The one I hear the most praise for these days is Guildhall, but I dont' think they have undergrad degrees.

Well these are North America schools.

Guildhall is from the UK from what I just looked up.

I don't think anyone did a recent study of where to get training for game development. This might be the latest one.

 

[Laeth]

Here's a question for those who work within the gaming industry:

The general consensus is that getting into games on the writing side is damn near impossible early on in one's career. That I understand, but how exactly does the marketing/PR/advertising side of the game industry operate in terms of offering entry-level positions?

Just wondering, because I well, I just graduate with two degrees one in Media Writing and another in Communication Studies and that's a side of the game industry I would like to explore if they are hiring. (You should be recieving my resume soon Epic!)

Within the marketing department of a previous role at a publisher; whenever I overheard some of my colleagues talking about prospective candidates for a couple of entry level marketing roles – they wanted someone who was interested in games (not necessarily passionate), had some marketing experience (doesn’t really matter in what industry), degree in marketing (or something similar) and someone who would fit in (this is spoke of a lot actually).

While there, I got the impression that marketing is a very transferable skill so they would hire people who had proven experience actually doing it – which also shows that there are a lot of candidates who do have the experience applying for these entry-level roles, making them quite competitive.

I can’t speak for PR as I’ve never encountered someone who was hiring for an entry-level PR role (generally because it’s all about relationships so they are often hired from within the industry, both at publishers and from within the press) and advertising is generally done by agencies.

Hope that helps.

 

[Zoe]

Well these are North America schools.

Guildhall is from the UK from what I just looked up.

Guildhall is at SMU in Texas.

 

[Torquill]

Well these are North America schools.

Guildhall is from the UK from what I just looked up.

I don't think anyone did a recent study of where to get training for game development. This might be the latest one.

Nope Texas.
http://guildhall.smu.edu/

 

[ianp622]

Why do you continually make this about your references and your connections? Who are you trying to convince of your foretold brilliance, us or you?

Yeah, honestly he sounds like an advertisement.

The thing about game design schools and trade schools (digipen and full sail) is that you don't get the range of knowledge that you would get from a regular college education. Employers are often looking for someone who is in touch with something other than games, and perhaps could bring that experience into their job.

Right now I'm an undergraduate at Penn, and with their Digital Media Design program, I take all the classes that are required of any engineering student, but I also take art classes as electives, and I'm minoring in Cognitive Science. I'm also a member of the Philadelphia chapter of the IGDA, which helps with getting connections. And the Philly IGDA held a GameJam recently where me and two of my friends won an award for making a cell phone game in 48 hours. (You can see our game, called Tesla Wars, here: http://www.phillygamejam.com/Games/Games.html )

My point is that you don't need to take classes for game design to get a job in the industry, your portfolio and talent is more important. Also, look for an IGDA chapter near you that you can go to so that you can network.

 

[Vustadumas]

What's with this talent bullshit.

Well, for us, talent > experience. Personality goes a very long way as well. No one wants to work with an asshole-know-it-all :lol We pull the best of the best in the industry (games and film), but it can still be hard to find a good fit.

 

[Mercutio]

Oddly, I sort of doubt the people and companies I have worked for and the people and companies others here have worked for would be too pleased about being brought up on a forum pissing contest. A forum that I know many of them read.

But hey, apparently we don't know as much about networking as other people here.

 

[CounterSeal]

A professor of mine that I highly respect once said this to me: Contrary to popular belief, this industry is 90% work ethic, and 10% talent.

Of course, the numbers don't mean much, but I think that's what Iaido is trying to say, and it is true. However, natural talent is euphoric once you realize you have it. Because it would partly be due to that very talent of yours that actually drives you to your high work ethic. It all comes back to the saying... how bad do you want it?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Now, hard work is all that there is to be good at anything unless you're god sent. To be a great game designer, you have to know how to run a team, be analytical, and how to think outside the box. All of those can be trained, and it is the training done in my school.

You can't experience teamwork at home making a mod on your own. You can't train your discipline without having a standard criteria and timeline to meet. These things are just hard work.

That's all well and good, but I do hope you don't think all you need to learn is through your school, because you're making it sound like you got it all figured out. And talent and personality count for a lot more than you might realize. Work ethic is a given, and if you don't have it you're not going to last long anyway. Genuine talent helps make people stand out.

So if you're going to be a designer, who do you know right at this moment. Who do you know and how will you get to know them?

My LinkedIn is plenty full of contacts, thank you.

I'm not saying networking doesn't have its uses, and it can give you an edge given the right circumstances. But that's just it - it has to be the right circumstances. Unless any of your contacts have final say and authority on a hiring decision, even their recommendation may not be enough to secure a job.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Nope Texas.
http://guildhall.smu.edu/

Just a link below the one I clicked.

Yeah, honestly he sounds like an advertisement.

The thing about game design schools and trade schools (digipen and full sail) is that you don't get the range of knowledge that you would get from a regular college education. Employers are often looking for someone who is in touch with something other than games, and perhaps could bring that experience into their job.

Right now I'm an undergraduate at Penn, and with their Digital Media Design program, I take all the classes that are required of any engineering student, but I also take art classes as electives, and I'm minoring in Cognitive Science. I'm also a member of the Philadelphia chapter of the IGDA, which helps with getting connections. And the Philly IGDA held a GameJam recently where me and two of my friends won an award for making a cell phone game in 48 hours. (You can see our game, called Tesla Wars, here: http://www.phillygamejam.com/Games/Games.html )

My point is that you don't need to take classes for game design to get a job in the industry, your portfolio and talent is more important. Also, look for an IGDA chapter near you that you can go to so that you can network.

Advertising that game-centric schools are important?

This thread is about helping people get into the industry, so I see no problem with telling them about places that proven to put people straight into the game industry.

The Art Institute that I'm at does not offer a full fledged degree program. The Art Institutes in SoCal do offer a full bachelors program if you like that. I hate learning crap that I don't need to so this school is perfect for me. Learning German or Philosophy won't help me be a designer. Sure, it may help me think of game ideas, but I already learned a lot of philosophy on my own. The industry is AT my school telling the school what they want to see, so I'm not sure how you know what the industry wants when they make up my courses.

 

[Torquill]

Learning German or Philosophy won't help me be a designer.

Is there an internet catch-phrase powerful enough to respond to this?

 

[Laeth]

Learning German or Philosophy won't help me be a designer.

Depends on the company I guess; a lot of leads prefer to hire candidates with a traditional degree as it shows that they are interested in stuff other than games. Someone who plays games all day every day and doesn't do anything else, doesn’t really bring anything new, or beneficial to the table.

Mod work can prove you have the skills to develop fun levels and have a knack for creating good, interesting gameplay - that, coupled with your traditional degree in History, Philosophy, Psychology etc shows a lot more character about a person, than someone who plays games, makes mods and studies how to make games.

Again, all my own opinion ^_^.

Edit: Should also note I'm refering to design positions here.

 

[ianp622]

Just a link below the one I clicked.
Advertising that game-centric schools are important?

No, you sound defensive about your school and the way you talk it sounds like an advertisement that you would get on TV about a game design school.

This thread is about helping people get into the industry, so I see no problem with telling them about places that proven to put people straight into the game industry.

That's fine, but I'm saying why limit yourself to one track when you could get a broader education and still have the same opportunities?

I hate learning crap that I don't need to so this school is perfect for me. Learning German or Philosophy won't help me be a designer. Sure, it may help me think of game ideas, but I already learned a lot of philosophy on my own.

I think that's a bad attitude to have in an industry as dynamic as the game industry. You're going to learn alot that will never be used again, so you should probably get used to it. Especially as a programmer, you learn a lot of languages that you will only use once. My point was that you can't innovate if you're just taught what you need to know to make a game similar to one that's already out.

The industry is AT my school telling the school what they want to see, so I'm not sure how you know what the industry wants when they make up my courses.

The entire industry is at your school? Sure, EA and Crystal Dynamics comes to my school too, and they do influence some of the curriculum, but their advice won't apply to every game studio there is.

 

[Torquill]

No one ever came to my school .

You guys are all coddled!

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The industry is AT my school telling the school what they want to see, so I'm not sure how you know what the industry wants when they make up my courses.

"We're" not telling your school anything. No, your instructors are making the courses from their experiences with the industry at the companies they've worked at that they figure is good foundational knowledge that should (not necessarily will) be applicable anywhere throughout the industry. That's it. There's a LOT more to learn beyond that.

 

[Lykathea]

By no means am I 'limiting' my career path to games exclusively; it is my first choice as of now but I feel with the success I have achieved in university across a wide array of disciplines that I would be a valuable asset to many a company in wide ranging industries.

As far as the games industry itself, I have been in some contact with Silicon Knights (*awaits mockery*) with both the HR department and with DD himself. Interestingly, their hiring philosophy is quite atypical; in particular they stress a guild mentality wherein SK almost seem to prefer--as far as I can tell--new recruits to have little to no experience actually making games so that they can train them in their own specific methodology. The benefit for them seems to derive from the idea that a well-rounded and successful university student will necessarily bring with them a significantly unique experience set that will aid the company as a whole by providing new insight from the outside in, as opposed to relying on grads who know nothing outside of games/gaming.

To get slightly more personal I will be graduating from my Honours Film Studies/Comm Studies program this coming spring, and SK specifically prefers Film Studies grads for such positions, so I am hopeful that I am on the right avenue to enter the industry via that method.

 

[Iaido Sword]

That's all well and good, but I do hope you don't think all you need to learn is through your school, because you're making it sound like you got it all figured out. And talent and personality count for a lot more than you might realize. Work ethic is a given, and if you don't have it you're not going to last long anyway. Genuine talent helps make people stand out.

My LinkedIn is plenty full of contacts, thank you.

I'm not saying networking doesn't have its uses, and it can give you an edge given the right circumstances. But that's just it - it has to be the right circumstances. Unless any of your contacts have final say and authority on a hiring decision, even their recommendation may not be enough to secure a job.

Let's make this clear. Talent is something not everyone has. It's super natural. You can't create it. You say to anyone that they may not get to do what they want because they don't have that talent and that is bullshit. You work your way to make yourself seem talented, but it's really just the hard work you have done. When you see some amazing models from a modeler and you say he or she's talented, you're probably quite wrong. That person probably had put in a life's work into being a good modeler.

People without good work ethic are weeded at the school. People with bad personalities are weeded out at the school. The graduates are the people with good work ethic and good personalities, and that's what the industry wants to see first.

I get what you're saying. My school offers the basis of being part of the game development. I will get the basis, but I will get the social network and portfolio as well.

A person who gets a ComSci degree at some University is not going to be ahead of the game over someone at a game-centric school.

Well, for us, talent > experience. Personality goes a very long way as well. No one wants to work with an asshole-know-it-all :lol We pull the best of the best in the industry (games and film), but it can still be hard to find a good fit.

So you pull people in without any kind of certification of their "talent"? If a guy went up to you and drew an awesome character, you'd just hire them on the spot after figuring they have a good personality through an interview?

That's a pretty bad way to go if the guy never learned about the depths of drawing.

Depends on the company I guess; a lot of leads prefer to hire candidates with a traditional degree as it shows that they are interested in stuff other than games. Someone who plays games all day every day and doesn't do anything else, doesn’t really bring anything new, or beneficial to the table.

Mod work can prove you can develop fun levels and have a knack for creating good, interesting gameplay - that, coupled with your traditional degree in History, Philosophy, Psychology etc shows a lot more character about a person, than someone who plays games, makes mods and studies how to make games.

Again, all my own opinion ^_^.

I really doubt they would hire someone without training in art, modeling, sound effects, scripting, and writing over someone who does.

Life experience happens to everyone and anyone can put their own unique thoughts into a game. You don't need to goto school to be unique.

"We're" not telling your school anything. No, your instructors are making the courses from their experiences with the industry at the companies they've worked at that they figure is good foundational knowledge that should (not necessarily will) be applicable anywhere throughout the industry. That's it. There's a LOT more to learn beyond that.

Are you part of the "we're"?

You have no idea how my school works.

 

[Laeth]

I really doubt they would hire someone without training in art, modeling, sound effects, scripting, and writing over someone who does.

Life experience happens to everyone and anyone can put their own unique thoughts into a game. You don't need to goto school to be unique.

Are you part of the "we're"?

You have no idea how my school works.

Hang on, I'm just trying to give you an opinion from someone who works as a designer in the industry - I'm not trying to offend you.

But yes, a lot of people would hire someone with a traditonal degree and a good mod portfolio over someone who has just a portfolio from their game school.

 

[White Man]

Guys, can you please just accept that he goes to the best school ever so this thread could move along?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

But yes, a lot of people would hire someone with a traditonal degree and a good mod portfolio over someone who has just a portfolio from their game school.

Agreed.

Are you part of the "we're"?

You have no idea how my school works.

You're right I don't know how your school works, especially since the industry is at your school yet so many of us aren't over there. PARADOX!

Guys, can you please just accept that he goes to the best school ever so this thread could move along?

Can we drag silly school sports rivalries into this while we're at it?