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The Office: Final Season |OT| It's better to burn out than it is to rust
- Thread starter DrEvil
- Start date
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dead souls
Member
Terrible episode.
And this:
And this:
couldn't be any more true. What awful writing. Distinct characters, what are those?
Yeah, he isn't as interesting as a lead as he was as a side character. I really liked his stint as the office pariah after sabotaging Dwight. That was fun.
Andy went from being the Dwight of the Stamford branch, to being a pretty quiet background character with some common sense, to this new Michael/Andy from the last two seasons hybrid. I hate it.
And looking back now, Andy and Angela being engaged was probably one of the dumbest parts of the series.
And looking back now, Andy and Angela being engaged was probably one of the dumbest parts of the series.
brianmcdoogle
Member
A couple of caveats:
1: I try to not watch the Office live or at night because for the past two seasons it has put me in a sour mood, and I don't want to go to bed annoyed.
2: I don't think I've liked an episode since Michael's last episode, and even that was just ok with them treating him as if he was dying or something (it did have some great moments, though).
3: I haven't written extensively about the Office since the episode featuring Michael's last Dundies, which I thought was such a terrible episode, especially compared to the first Dundies episode, that I just needed to vent my immense frustrations.
With all that said, and with the major exceptions of everything involving Andy/Erin/Nellie, I thought this was a fantastic episode.
The Jim prank worked, and the resulting situation of the office Bus was funny, surprising, and logically existed within the strange (post season 3) universe of the show. While Dwight's character turn was a bit jarring since he never hinted at his impotence being a major issue (I just assumed he wanted the baby to be his, not that he can't have any children), I am a sucker for the Jim/Dwight bonding moments on the show that are, thankfully, very rare. Kevin was funny (outside of asking to get the pie thrown in his face at the end), Oscar had some good lines and wasn't bogged down by gay/senator jokes, the new guys weren't annoying, and the Andy/Erin/Nellie arc was not the A story plot, meaning it got less time. Also, they didn't focus too much on Daryl (who is overexposed thanks to Hot Tub Time Machine), and the Creed pop-up was relatively mild for what they've been doing with Creed for the last several episodes/season (Creed becomes less and less funny the more he is used in the show).
The cold opening and the ending after the credits weren't good, but what do you expect when they feature Andy?
But, most important to all of this, I think the Jim and Pam moments were their best since Niagara Falls (the baby birth episode was another low in the series, sadly). Their dynamic works best with small moments, such as Pam's drunken nodding in Dundies that subtly turns into a realization of her feelings for Jim and then her falling off the barstool, or Jim asking her out finally and her smile, "what was the question again" to the interviewer, or their silent moment on the boat getting married. I could go on. The putting of her head on Jim's shoulder and his gentle kiss of Pam's forehead doesn't rise to those three moments I just mentioned, but it isn't an in-your-face resolution. She knows he loves her, and we know he loves her. That's it. Nothing big. Most shows just don't do stuff like this, and these are the things I love about The Office (and consequentially why I hate the Erin/Andy romance, since there were no small/real moments).
All of this will probably be undone or forgotten in subsequent episodes, but for now, I'm in a good mood after watching an episode of the Office.
1: I try to not watch the Office live or at night because for the past two seasons it has put me in a sour mood, and I don't want to go to bed annoyed.
2: I don't think I've liked an episode since Michael's last episode, and even that was just ok with them treating him as if he was dying or something (it did have some great moments, though).
3: I haven't written extensively about the Office since the episode featuring Michael's last Dundies, which I thought was such a terrible episode, especially compared to the first Dundies episode, that I just needed to vent my immense frustrations.
With all that said, and with the major exceptions of everything involving Andy/Erin/Nellie, I thought this was a fantastic episode.
The Jim prank worked, and the resulting situation of the office Bus was funny, surprising, and logically existed within the strange (post season 3) universe of the show. While Dwight's character turn was a bit jarring since he never hinted at his impotence being a major issue (I just assumed he wanted the baby to be his, not that he can't have any children), I am a sucker for the Jim/Dwight bonding moments on the show that are, thankfully, very rare. Kevin was funny (outside of asking to get the pie thrown in his face at the end), Oscar had some good lines and wasn't bogged down by gay/senator jokes, the new guys weren't annoying, and the Andy/Erin/Nellie arc was not the A story plot, meaning it got less time. Also, they didn't focus too much on Daryl (who is overexposed thanks to Hot Tub Time Machine), and the Creed pop-up was relatively mild for what they've been doing with Creed for the last several episodes/season (Creed becomes less and less funny the more he is used in the show).
The cold opening and the ending after the credits weren't good, but what do you expect when they feature Andy?
But, most important to all of this, I think the Jim and Pam moments were their best since Niagara Falls (the baby birth episode was another low in the series, sadly). Their dynamic works best with small moments, such as Pam's drunken nodding in Dundies that subtly turns into a realization of her feelings for Jim and then her falling off the barstool, or Jim asking her out finally and her smile, "what was the question again" to the interviewer, or their silent moment on the boat getting married. I could go on. The putting of her head on Jim's shoulder and his gentle kiss of Pam's forehead doesn't rise to those three moments I just mentioned, but it isn't an in-your-face resolution. She knows he loves her, and we know he loves her. That's it. Nothing big. Most shows just don't do stuff like this, and these are the things I love about The Office (and consequentially why I hate the Erin/Andy romance, since there were no small/real moments).
All of this will probably be undone or forgotten in subsequent episodes, but for now, I'm in a good mood after watching an episode of the Office.
It's crazy to think that this is the same show... it used to have so much heart.
But I understand why the show sucks now:
- Michael Scott is the best character in the show. Carrel was able to play the socially awkward regional manager so well and then he was able to add so much depth with those glimpses of how sad his life actually was. His character felt very real, and scenes such as that dinner party with Jan added a lot to his character.
- Andy is no Michael Scott. No matter how hard they try to write him like Michael Scott he just isn't convincing. He's character is inconsistent - sometimes his confident, sometimes he's pathetic, sometimes he's mean, sometimes he's a huge jackass, and now a days he's almost never funny.
- Jim and Pam's relationship was the heart of the show. And this is probably the biggest consequence of having a show run way too long. I loved the show because of them, and their relationship up until season 3 or 4 is probably one of the best I've seen on TV. But how can you keep that fresh 6 seasons after they are together? There's no conflict... they've been a happily married couple ever since. And you can't convincingly break them up and have them do the will-they-won't-they thing again.
- Andy and Daryl's Hollywood success.. those characters have been just horrible ever since they became a bigger part of the office. Andy is so damn annoying... and Daryl is pretty much just there. But again what can you do now that you suddenly have two otherwise background characters who became stars and are demanding bigger contracts and more screen time?
- The rest of the cast are caricatures of themselves. They have always been one dimensional which was fine early on because they added to the office but now there is really not much more they can do with them.
The show has been on way too long. That's really it. Had it finished in 3 or 4 seasons as it should have the show would be considered one of the all time great comedies. Now... lol.
But I understand why the show sucks now:
- Michael Scott is the best character in the show. Carrel was able to play the socially awkward regional manager so well and then he was able to add so much depth with those glimpses of how sad his life actually was. His character felt very real, and scenes such as that dinner party with Jan added a lot to his character.
- Andy is no Michael Scott. No matter how hard they try to write him like Michael Scott he just isn't convincing. He's character is inconsistent - sometimes his confident, sometimes he's pathetic, sometimes he's mean, sometimes he's a huge jackass, and now a days he's almost never funny.
- Jim and Pam's relationship was the heart of the show. And this is probably the biggest consequence of having a show run way too long. I loved the show because of them, and their relationship up until season 3 or 4 is probably one of the best I've seen on TV. But how can you keep that fresh 6 seasons after they are together? There's no conflict... they've been a happily married couple ever since. And you can't convincingly break them up and have them do the will-they-won't-they thing again.
- Andy and Daryl's Hollywood success.. those characters have been just horrible ever since they became a bigger part of the office. Andy is so damn annoying... and Daryl is pretty much just there. But again what can you do now that you suddenly have two otherwise background characters who became stars and are demanding bigger contracts and more screen time?
- The rest of the cast are caricatures of themselves. They have always been one dimensional which was fine early on because they added to the office but now there is really not much more they can do with them.
The show has been on way too long. That's really it. Had it finished in 3 or 4 seasons as it should have the show would be considered one of the all time great comedies. Now... lol.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
A mean and charmless Michael at that.
Really took me out of the episode.
I've been a big supporter of the show even through its decline, but the Andy stuff in this episode was screamingly bad.
The only thing I really liked was Kevin and Pie Math. EDIT: And Creed getting on the bus.
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah, I haven't enjoyed Andy's character in a long time, and him becoming more than just a side character really hurt things overall.
When I found out that they made him the regional manager I was very disappointed.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I agree completely. I can't believe the negative reaction on here.
To me, this was the best episode of the show in a LONG time.
I also can't believe I'm saying this, but the writers actually succeeded in making Nellie somewhat tolerable.
I almost think that the Andy character change seems logical. He was a weak man, that got stepped on and bullied by everyone, he was sent off on the trip by David Wallace and came back an angry man who now bullies others. Im hoping in the next few weeks he realizes that he has become what he hated.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Andy has been a randomly-written character ever since his Anger Management back in season (4?).
Ironically, I find Ed Helms very likable, but I've come to hate Andy. The most I like him was the first half of last season-- even though he bore no resemblance to the character when he first showed up.
Ironically, I find Ed Helms very likable, but I've come to hate Andy. The most I like him was the first half of last season-- even though he bore no resemblance to the character when he first showed up.
They only made her tolerable by making Andy a complete jackass to her.
Seems like they pushed 'The Farm' into later in the season... could be November 8th, so that's tentative placement for now.
New episode info:
Colbert guest stars next week.
OCTOBER 25th:
NOVEMBER 1st:
NOVEMBER 8th:
New episode info:
Colbert guest stars next week.
OCTOBER 25th:
9x05 "Here Comes Treble" said:
NOVEMBER 1st:
9x06 "The Boat" said:
NOVEMBER 8th:
9x07 "The Farm" said:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
When are the reveals:
Gabe is Scranton Strangler
Angela's baby not her own
Angela's baby not her own
First one is likely a given, they hinted at it a bit last season... but I imagine Kevin finds out about Oscar and the Senator's affair.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Yeah, isn't Gabe still on the show? They seriously need to just man up, say that it was him, and have Toby say "Told you so" and drop the mic.
As Fraiser said:
going down....
Also, the whole "I like Nellie more" or "they're making Nellie a more sympathetic character", let me ask you all this:
Is there a more pandering/pathetic way to gain sympathy for a female character than to have her try and adopt a baby?
I'm being serious. That is such a lame, pathetic way to get sympathy for a character. I cannot think of a more obvious and worse way to try to carry favor for a character. It is disgusting and repulsive how manipulative it is attempting to be, and how saddening that is working on some people..
This.
Nellie sucks and is only on the show for pity. The writers are trying to guilt people into liking her and not see her as a 2D asshole.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Craig Robinson is getting his own show on NBC, with Greg Daniels executive-producing.
Sounds a bit Eastbound & Down-like.
Sounds a bit Eastbound & Down-like.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I really liked it. Especially Creed ditching work and walking right back onto a bus full of his coworkers.
Supermanisdead
Member
Nellie is just the worst. And they are turning Andy into a huge asshole to make her sympathetic, but it just makes me hate both even more.
Reading OfficeTally infuriates me sometimes. Reading people that say, this episode for instance, is one of the "best in many seasons" and "in my top 5 of all time". WHAT? Do they not realize what a shadow of it's former glory this show is? Someone commented "Has anyone even watched the first few seasons lately, or are we going by memories from over five years ago? The tone of the show only EVER changed in S8 and I chalk that up to a lack of direction after Michael left." My goodness. I rewatch the early seasons all of the time and to say it's similar, in tone or ANYTHING, is asinine.
Hardly any people besides me mentioned anything about the cold open and how terrible it was. It's like they're blind. I showed it to my brother and we both agreed that it was the worst cold open of the show ever, easily.
I found two images that summarize the difference in the show between early seasons and later seasons. It describes the tone, characterization and humor difference in the show quite well, I think.
Sorry for nerd raging. I'm an enormous fan of The Office; it's my favorite show, so I'm pretty passionate about it and it's downfall, lol.
Hardly any people besides me mentioned anything about the cold open and how terrible it was. It's like they're blind. I showed it to my brother and we both agreed that it was the worst cold open of the show ever, easily.
I found two images that summarize the difference in the show between early seasons and later seasons. It describes the tone, characterization and humor difference in the show quite well, I think.
Sorry for nerd raging. I'm an enormous fan of The Office; it's my favorite show, so I'm pretty passionate about it and it's downfall, lol.
Davey Cakes
Member
What was the cold open again? I actually forgot. Don't remember it being particularly good though. The episode itself wasn't bad overall.
Even as an optimistic watcher of this series, I know when I'm experience a "high" and a "low." The cold open with Jim's prank from the last episode was really great. This week's, not so much.
Even as an optimistic watcher of this series, I know when I'm experience a "high" and a "low." The cold open with Jim's prank from the last episode was really great. This week's, not so much.
And he's completely justified in being a jackass to her, it's like some of you forgot the (forgettable) previous season.
The Office has always been somewhat dated when they do references. It's either intentional for awkward reasons, or it was the thing while the episodes were being written. I've always given them a pass since it comes off as quirky.
That said, the Epic Fail cold opening almost made me switch the channel. God damn it.
That said, the Epic Fail cold opening almost made me switch the channel. God damn it.
The references are fine when it's obvious they're going for the awkward angle = See: Lazy "Scranton" that Michael made.
The Office has been on a slow descent since Season Three began, sometimes going back up in quality for certain storylines for a bit. It's the passing of the torch from Michael to Andy as manager that is the final nail in the coffin.
I never appreciated Michael's character till this season. Andy is hooooorible!
All the characters have lost all their appeals except for the two new guys. Everything else almost makes me mad how bad it is. Even Jim's prank was awful. The asian Jim is the only good thing so far this season aside from the two interns.
All the characters have lost all their appeals except for the two new guys. Everything else almost makes me mad how bad it is. Even Jim's prank was awful. The asian Jim is the only good thing so far this season aside from the two interns.
I don't think it's as much Andy as it was Michael Scott leaving. The show just isn't possible without him.
I think Jim and Dwight can carry the show without Michael. Not to take away anything from Michael - he was the heart of the show.
But I agree with the above comment that the passing of the torch to Andy is what ruined the show. Andy's character has gone through so many different iterations as if the writers can't find the best way to use him. And all the focus on Andy has been laaaaaame.
Nope.
Andy isn't great as boss but shitty unfunny writing and annoying characters ruined the show. The biggest killer was Michael leaving though. He was the heart of the show.
TOP SHOTTA
Member
Great episode.
Loved Jim desperately trying to win Pam AND Dwight's love.
Picking Creed up on the highway was amazing.
Nellie getting tolerable.
Erin looking wonderful.
Andy falling with the gatorade cooler straight onto his chest and face was amazing.
Good grades for the episode from me, a long-time fan and loyalist. Great premise with that shitty mobile office coach.
Loved Jim desperately trying to win Pam AND Dwight's love.
Picking Creed up on the highway was amazing.
Nellie getting tolerable.
Erin looking wonderful.
Andy falling with the gatorade cooler straight onto his chest and face was amazing.
Good grades for the episode from me, a long-time fan and loyalist. Great premise with that shitty mobile office coach.
Davey Cakes
Member
I actually thought that Michael himself, even as the heart of the show, was turning into a bit of an annoying character. By the end of Season 7 I was actually happy to see him go, just out of curiosity for what the show would be like without him.
To be honest, there were actually some points in Season 8 that made me believe that the show was totally possible without Michael Scott. But the inconsistent writing, crappy storylines, and miss-the-mark jokes hurt things more than the fact that the main character is missing. Andy taking a lead role certainly didn't help though.
Basically, even in Season 9 the show still has its moments. But it's a lot of "you take the good with the bad."
Anyway, Andy didn't solely ruin the show. In my opinion, obviously the Season 2+3 combo is the peak, but S4 and S5 were really enjoyable for me. The turning point was when Sabre bought Dunder Mifflin. No turning back after that. Everything about the show just got worse, for the most part.
To be honest, there were actually some points in Season 8 that made me believe that the show was totally possible without Michael Scott. But the inconsistent writing, crappy storylines, and miss-the-mark jokes hurt things more than the fact that the main character is missing. Andy taking a lead role certainly didn't help though.
Basically, even in Season 9 the show still has its moments. But it's a lot of "you take the good with the bad."
Anyway, Andy didn't solely ruin the show. In my opinion, obviously the Season 2+3 combo is the peak, but S4 and S5 were really enjoyable for me. The turning point was when Sabre bought Dunder Mifflin. No turning back after that. Everything about the show just got worse, for the most part.
I would agree with most of this. Sabre was when it got it's worst, and Michael indeed was starting to get annoying. I would actually say personally the show started getting worse when Holly was introduced. The first episode she was in (Goodbye Toby, S4 finale) wasn't bad, but after that I felt that focused too much on that Michael-Holly relationship to the point of annoyance. When they didn't, some great stuff came out of the show, like Customer Service and the Michael Scott Paper Company arc from S5. But then you have season 7 where almost EVERY episode revolved around Michael and Holly's relationship (or lack thereof in earlier episodes of the season). I think the worst was that embarassingly bad one The Search where Holly and some others were looking for Michael and Holly intuitively wanted to go to all of the places where Michael had went until they found him.
He isn't barren for real unless he/we aren't aware of it already. That was him falling for Jim's prank, just making him think he was barren.
The show has been mostly good about acknowledging that the pop culture references they're making are dated, like when Michael, Dwight and Andy were making parkour videos, and the WAZZAP bit in the pilot (Jim: "Waazuup. I still love that, after seven years.").
toddhunter
Member
Getting Jim and Pam together killed the show, the rest has just been hanging on, with Michael leaving the final nail in the coffin.
Andy is just one particularly bad part of that.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Andy's such a fucking twat nowadays. And yet, Nellie's becoming more tolerable.
Davey Cakes
Member
As people have pointed out, the likability of Andy and the likability of Nellie are inversely proportional.
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