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[golem]

Why?

Better support from Manufacturer and Accessory makers
Higher bitrate: Canon ~45mbps vs D3100 ~19mbps
Higher res LCD: T2i 1040k vs D3100 230k pixels
HDMI live view
1080p/25, 720p/50/60
Mic input vs no Mic input (although you'll probably want to go external at some point)
Manual control for video not confirmed yet.

Continuous AF isnt a huge selling point if you're making films. For just videoing little Johnny at the park, it will be helpful

 

[BlackGoku03]

As far as the focusing issue... I've never seen a DSLR that has manual focus on pictures but not on video. Going by the youtube video they posted, there was manual focusing going on judging by the girl in the playground.


The mic issue I didn't know about. That could be a deal breaker.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Why?

This. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pco4OmpYSQo&feature=more_related

 

[golem]

Oh, I mean manual control as in being able to set the Aperture, Shutter speed, and ISO independently while recording video.

 

[Pepto]

This. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pco4OmpYSQo&feature=more_related

You can't get the look on other cameras than Canons?

 

[golem]

You can't get the look on other cameras than Canons?

Maybe a hacked GH1. Otherwise, no.

 

[Pepto]

Maybe a hacked GH1. Otherwise, no.

Why can't you get that look with those new Sonys or Nikons?

 

[Forsete]

Valkyr Junkie: Great. But there will come a day when they do dump the motor in the lower end cameras (evidence of this, all new lenses are SAM lenses or the superior SSM), which will suck.

Higher bitrate: Canon ~45mbps vs D3100 ~19mbps

Same codec though?

A55 AF test vs Canon 550D.. Very smooth. Whats with the exposure jumps in the 550D video? Oh and I love that little horizon thingy on the A55. Hope that becomes standard.
http://www.focus-numerique.com/sony-alpha-33-55-deja-prise-mains-news-2091.html

 

[Futureman]

Why can't you get that look with those new Sonys or Nikons?

You can. BUT....

Canon's video just looks better at this point. They've had 1080p for nearly two years now and since then, every new cam pretty much has a full HD video mode that improved upon the last one that came out.

Plus there's a huge underground online community with WAY more support for Canon's cameras.

If your only reason for buying a DSLR at this point is video, go with a Canon.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I can't jump from a $700 price point to a $2,500 price point for the 5D Mark II. Just too much.

Maybe the new Sony Alpha SLT-A55V or the A33?

921K pixels for the LCD... comparable right?
16.7 Megapixels (a little less for the A33)
Mic input

The Sony A55 and A33 can continue to use phase detection autofocusing during movie recording, allowing swift adjustments to focus as your subject moves.

But it records at 25fps. Does that really matter? And the lenses for Sony cameras... are they more expensive than the already expensive Nikkor lenses?

 

[Futureman]

I can't jump from a $700 price point to a $2,500 price point for the 5D Mark II. Just too much.

You don't HAVE to get the 5DII.

The T2i is pretty awesome and is cheap as shit.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Arguing bitrates seems pretty pointless on SLRs IMO. AVCHD is an extremely efficient codec, and even at those low bitrates you aren't going to get macroblocking except under the most extreme of movements most likely. Well past the point you're going to get the rolling shutter jello effect which will ruin the footage on its own.

 

[Forsete]

But it records at 25fps. Does that really matter? And the lenses for Sony cameras... are they more expensive than the already expensive Nikkor lenses?

If you live in Europe it records in 25p, yes. No that does not matter.
IIRC price wise Sony lenses are in line with Canikon.

 

[Askia47]

Does anyone Know how good the Panasonic Lumix GF1 is? Im thinking about getting it because of the small form factor and powerful features.

 

[golem]

Same codec though?

Both are H.264.

Why can't you get that look with those new Sonys or Nikons?

That video was shot in 1080p/25. Impossible on those cameras (Sony has 25 but not 24, wtf?). And no, frame rate conversion isn't the same.

 

[Pepto]

A55 AF test vs Canon 550D.. Very smooth. Whats with the exposure jumps in the 550D video? Oh and I love that little horizon thingy on the A55. Hope that becomes standard.
http://www.focus-numerique.com/sony-alpha-33-55-deja-prise-mains-news-2091.html

After seeing that video I wouldn't recommend the 550D over the A55 to anyone for video.

 

[Futureman]

That video was shot in 1080p/25. Impossible on those cameras (Sony has 25 but not 24, wtf?). And no, frame rate conversion isn't the same.

Ehhh, frame rate is a very small piece of the pie as far as how the overall video looks. While it's true you wouldn't get the EXACT look, it would be very close.

Plus the new Nikon does have 1080p 24fps. So yea.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Well... shit. I'm glad I entered this thread.


So... cheapest option is Nikon D3100. No audio input (wtf?). Has lower bitrate (don't care too much) and AF isn't as good as the Canons (also don't care about AF too much).

Mid range is Sony's new cameras coming out about the same time. 25fps... for Europe models? Will that change for us NTSCers? Seems decent but I know nobody with a Sony DSLR. It's gotten very good reviews though.

The Canon T2i... not familiar with it. Has mic inputs though. Does 1080p and 24 fps. Live view? Can I see what I record as exactly as it should look? 12 minutes of continuous record time... hmm. Only costs $200 more than the Nikon.


What should I get? I'm going for video mostly. Indie films. I'm just starting so I don't need an ultra holy fuck camera. I also only have about $2000 (give or take a few hundred) to spend by October on these cameras including lenses and shoulder mounts.

 

[golem]

A55 AF test vs Canon 550D.. Very smooth. Whats with the exposure jumps in the 550D video? Oh and I love that little horizon thingy on the A55. Hope that becomes standard.
http://www.focus-numerique.com/sony-alpha-33-55-deja-prise-mains-news-2091.html

The AF in Canons' video modes is definitely not for live recording. You will most likely need a focus puller to do shots like that on the Canon.

I'd like to note that the A55 does not have manual controls for video, so if you dislike exposure jumps, you'll probably want to avoid it.

 

[golem]

Arguing bitrates seems pretty pointless on SLRs IMO.

I dislike judging on the basis of youtube videos but the D3100's sample footage released looks pretty poor in places and seems to be a bitrate issue. Unless their encoder is amazing, double the bitrate will result in noticeable differences in image quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqSa5Sp0UY

Since it's release is just around the corner though hopefully we'll see higher quality footage soon.

 

[BlackGoku03]

So would you reccomend the T2i over the new Sony's? Is there a major difference between the t2i and the 5DII? From what I've seen, it may not be worth it.

 

[Forsete]

The AF in Canons' video modes is definitely not for live recording. You will most likely need a focus puller to do shots like that on the Canon.

I'd like to note that the A55 does not have manual controls for video, so if you dislike exposure jumps, you'll probably want to avoid it.

No manual control (BOO!) does not equal exposure jumps as seen in that 550D footage though. A55 changed its exposure in that shot when the girl came closer, yet it was very smooth.

I dislike judging on the basis of youtube videos but the D3100's sample footage released looks pretty poor in places and seems to be a bitrate issue.

Yeah that didnt look so hot either. I saw the same type of exposure "jumps" there.. Could it be that the lenses are changing the f-stop?

 

[golem]

What should I get? I'm going for video mostly. Indie films. I'm just starting so I don't need an ultra holy fuck camera. I also only have about $2000 (give or take a few hundred) to spend by October on these cameras including lenses and shoulder mounts.

Get the T2i. Unless you already have a large collection of Nikon or Sony lenses, it's the best camera for video in that range.

The biggest difference is the sensor size, and the sensor in the 5Dmk2 will dwarf all your other options anyways. The T2i is fine for that price range and most people recommend it.

With the Canon you can lock the settings down, which obviously they didnt do. It may not be supported while playing with the AF however (which like I said previously, isnt really a feature made for while shooting live in Canons).

People seem to agree that the D3100 video was shot in automatic mode.. not confirmed to have a full manual mode yet.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

I dislike judging on the basis of youtube videos but the D3100's sample footage released looks pretty poor in places and seems to be a bitrate issue. Unless their encoder is amazing, double the bitrate will result in noticeable differences in image quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqSa5Sp0UY

Since it's release is just around the corner though hopefully we'll see higher quality footage soon.

Well that video is just plain shit all around. I'm amazed that's what Nikon came up with in comparison to the promo videos everyone else is releasing :lol. The Sony NEX videos look a lot better than the Nikon ones, and the NEX has a maximum bitrate that's even slightly lower.

Then again, even on a 1-2.5mbps Youtube Flash video that T2i video looks really good. So there's definitely other factors going on when capturing video despite pure bitrate.

 

[golem]

Does anyone Know how good the Panasonic Lumix GF1 is? Im thinking about getting it because of the small form factor and powerful features.

It's amazing buy it.

This topic should be renamed the Micro 4/3s and DSLR video question thread Check out the last few pages for more discussion

Although there may be newer models released soon, check www.43rumors.com

 

[BlackGoku03]

It's amazing buy it.

This topic should be renamed the Micro 4/3s and DSLR video question thread Check out the last few pages for more discussion

Although there may be newer models released soon, check www.43rumors.com

yes, it should. Thank you for answering my question. The only thing I don't like about the t2i is the limited ISO options and it only outputs in SD. Stupid question... the LCD will give you a live view of what you're shooting?

 

[Forsete]

Well that video is just plain shit all around. I'm amazed that's what Nikon came up with in comparison to the promo videos everyone else is releasing :lol. The Sony NEX videos look a lot better than the Nikon ones, and the NEX has a maximum bitrate that's even slightly lower.

Then again, even on a 1-2.5mbps Youtube Flash video that T2i video looks really good. So there's definitely other factors going on when capturing video despite pure bitrate.

Yeah, this is how you do it.

Warning: Euro techno music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwLICLPUoY

 

[Danielsan]

It's amazing buy it.

This topic should be renamed the Micro 4/3s and DSLR video question thread Check out the last few pages for more discussion

Although there may be newer models released soon, check www.43rumors.com

I've been thinking about getting a GF1 instead of a full fledged DSLR.
As a beginner would I be better off with a GF1 or a starter DSLR such as the Nikon 3100/Canon 550D? Portability is definitely part of the GF1's appeal. I sure as hell won't be carrying around a heavy DSLR with me everywhere, but the GF1 can easily be carried with me at all times. On the other hand I'm afraid that my options may be too limited with the GF1. Would I be wrong in assuming this?

 

[BlueTsunami]

m4/3rd cameras are awesome cause you can mount Leica's modern M mount lenses to them. Leica's 35/1.4 Summilux with Floating Element = All anyone would ever need!

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

No manual control (BOO!) does not equal exposure jumps as seen in that 550D footage though. A55 changed its exposure in that shot when the girl came closer, yet it was very smooth.



Yeah that didnt look so hot either. I saw the same type of exposure "jumps" there.. Could it be that the lenses are changing the f-stop?

That's my guess. Looks just like kit lens's without a constant f-stop.

 

[East Lake]

m4/3rd cameras are awesome cause you can mount Leica's modern M mount lenses to them. Leica's 35/1.4 Summilux with Floating Element = All anyone would ever need!

Stop telling me these things. :lol

 

[Danielsan]

m4/3rd cameras are awesome cause you can mount Leica's modern M mount lenses to them. Leica's 35/1.4 Summilux with Floating Element = All anyone would ever need!

So that's a no on them being too limited? :lol

 

[BlueTsunami]

So that's a no on them being too limited? :lol

Its quite possibly the most adaptable of all the camera bodies! You can choose from the native mount lenses with AF or Manual Focus lenses (Olympus, Canon FD, Nikkor, Leica M or Zeiss Rangefinder lenes and many more). If see yourself wanting to play with manual focus lenses, definitely get a GF1.

 

[Askia47]

It's amazing buy it.

This topic should be renamed the Micro 4/3s and DSLR video question thread Check out the last few pages for more discussion

Although there may be newer models released soon, check www.43rumors.com

Thanks, I'll look into getting it soon!

 

[golem]

yes, it should. Thank you for answering my question. The only thing I don't like about the t2i is the limited ISO options and it only outputs in SD. Stupid question... the LCD will give you a live view of what you're shooting?

Honestly, the higher ISOs are kind of gimmicky. If it can do a fairly clean 1600 and 3200 you should be ok.

The LCD will give you a live view while recording yeah, you'll probably want to get a LCDVF or Z-Finder to go with it, since the T2i doesnt output HD live from its HDMI (my 7D does). People say they can focus with the 480 stream alright still however.

I've been thinking about getting a GF1 instead of a full fledged DSLR.
As a beginner would I be better off with a GF1 or a starter DSLR such as the Nikon 3100/Canon 550D? Portability is definitely part of the GF1's appeal. I sure as hell won't be carrying around a heavy DSLR with me everywhere, but the GF1 can easily be carried with me at all times. On the other hand I'm afraid that my options may be too limited with the GF1. Would I be wrong in assuming this?

I think the only big shortcomings from picking a Micro 4/3s over a full fledged DSLR are probably the ISO capabilities and shooting fps. Otherwise they're really quite versatile beasts and image quality is great. I take my EP-1 everywhere, the DSLRs not so much. As a starter camera, whatever gets you shooting and playing with the different features and settings most is important, so having a camera you can bring with you everywhere makes it a good choice.

 

[Danielsan]

Honestly, the higher ISOs are kind of gimmicky. If it can do a fairly clean 1600 and 3200 you should be ok.

The LCD will give you a live view while recording yeah, you'll probably want to get a LCDVF or Z-Finder to go with it, since the T2i doesnt output HD live from its HDMI (my 7D does). People say they can focus with the 480 stream alright still however.



I think the only big shortcomings from picking a Micro 4/3s over a full fledged DSLR are probably the ISO capabilities and shooting fps. Otherwise they're really quite versatile beasts and image quality is great. I take my EP-1 everywhere, the DSLRs not so much. As a starter camera, whatever gets you shooting and playing with the different features and settings most is important, so having a camera you can bring with you everywhere makes it a good choice.

Damn. I will make my decision come next payday, but I'm nudging more and more towards the GF1.
Even though it will actually end up being a more expensive deal for me considering I can't use my damn gift cards on it.

Which lens would you recommend to get initially, the 20mm pancake lens or the 14-45mm?
Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the GF1 able to shoot 3 shots per second? The Nikon also able to shoot only 3 images per second so it wouldn't be that much of a shortcoming considering my other options.

 

[golem]

Damn. I will make my decision come next payday, but I'm nudging more and more towards the GF1.
Even though it will actually end up being a more expensive deal for me considering I can't use my damn gift cards on it.

Which lens would you recommend to get initially, the 20mm pancake lens or the 14-45mm?
Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the GF1 able to shoot 3 shots per second? The Nikon also able to shoot only 3 images per second so it wouldn't be that much of a shortcoming considering my other options.

The 20mm is an awesome lens, it rarely leaves my camera. Also prime lenses are nice to learn on because they make you think more about the picture you're taking and move your body around.

 

[Pepto]

I don't think higher ISOs are gimmicky at all.

To get a good version of this shot my camera should do clean iso 6400:

 

[Danielsan]

The 20mm is an awesome lens, it rarely leaves my camera. Also prime lenses are nice to learn on because they make you think more about the picture you're taking and move your body around.

Alright. Pancake it is.
Will have to double check my financial status next month. €700 is a lot of cash for a poor student like me. In comparison a D5000 with 18-55mm lens would only cost me €320.
Ahh well, will just have to suck it up.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Ok well decision made.

T2i all the way baby! I'll have it by October. I don't think I need the 18-55mm lens. I know I need the 35mm one though for most general shots but I'm wondering what else to get. 24-70mm f2.8 lens looks great but I don't want to spend so much.

Looking at what the 7D, 5DII, and T2i can shoot in low light, they all seem similar. The 7D and 5D look better at 6400 ISO but I doubt I'll ever need that on a set. The footage between all three look very similar. I know I'll be happy with the purchase.

 

[ChryZ]

Danielsan, you can browse the following Flickr groups:

Micro Four Thirds cameras using alternative & legacy lenses
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1084614@N23/

Panasonic Lumix GF1 with Manual Focus Lens
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1273669@N25/

Panasonic Lumix 20mm f1.7 ASPH "pancake"
http://www.flickr.com/groups/lumix-pancake/

It's a nice way to sample what's possible.

Like mounting a $10000 lens on GF1 for cute little videos:
http://vimeo.com/6664924

 

[Danielsan]

Danielsan, you can browse the following Flickr groups:

Micro Four Thirds cameras using alternative & legacy lenses
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1084614@N23/

Panasonic Lumix GF1 with Manual Focus Lens
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1273669@N25/

Panasonic Lumix 20mm f1.7 ASPH "pancake"
http://www.flickr.com/groups/lumix-pancake/

It's a nice way to sample what's possible.

Like mounting a $10000 lens on GF1 for cute little videos:
http://vimeo.com/6664924

Awesome. Much appreciated.
I've been slide-showing my way through the 20mm flickr group it has me sold.
Some truly gorgeous looking shots in there.
I definitely won't be mounting any $10000 lenses on it though. :lol

 

[Futureman]

Ok well decision made.

T2i all the way baby! I'll have it by October. I don't think I need the 18-55mm lens. I know I need the 35mm one though for most general shots but I'm wondering what else to get. 24-70mm f2.8 lens looks great but I don't want to spend so much.

Looking at what the 7D, 5DII, and T2i can shoot in low light, they all seem similar. The 7D and 5D look better at 6400 ISO but I doubt I'll ever need that on a set. The footage between all three look very similar. I know I'll be happy with the purchase.

I use a 5DII and I try to avoid even ISO 1600 if I can. There is definitely lots of grain/pixel weirdness when you get up to 1600 (not so with photos though). If you are on a set, I assume you have lights, and there is no reason to use 1600.

 

[zhenming]

I use a 5DII and I try to avoid even ISO 1600 if I can. There is definitely lots of grain/pixel weirdness when you get up to 1600 (not so with photos though). If you are on a set, I assume you have lights, and there is no reason to use 1600.

move over to Nikon 3200/5000 iso is nice

 

[Agent Ironside]

I use a 5DII and I try to avoid even ISO 1600 if I can. There is definitely lots of grain/pixel weirdness when you get up to 1600 (not so with photos though). If you are on a set, I assume you have lights, and there is no reason to use 1600.

Dang, I have a T2i with the Canon 50mm 1.4f lens and I could never even imagine needing more than ISO 400 when using the 1.4f, I mean thats almost in pitch black too. I dont think I would ever need more than 800 in ANY low lighting situation.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I use a 5DII and I try to avoid even ISO 1600 if I can. There is definitely lots of grain/pixel weirdness when you get up to 1600 (not so with photos though). If you are on a set, I assume you have lights, and there is no reason to use 1600.

That's what I was thinking and I'm glad you mentioned that. I was going to ask whether or not any of you who use these cameras for video go over 800 or 1600 at all. I thought I was asking too many questions. >_>

Dang, I have a T2i with the Canon 50mm 1.4f lens and I could never even imagine needing more than ISO 400 when using the 1.4f, I mean thats almost in pitch black too. I dont think I would ever need more than 800 in ANY low lighting situation.

Cool thanks. I know I'm going to have some fun with this camera. I can't wait to start getting creative.

I found a decent shoulder mount. I need a cage with attachments for a mic and LCD or light. I also need a gliding rig. I'm looking into maybe making a DIY one.

 

[osknoes]

Well, seeing the GF1 flickr account has sold it to me. Portability it's such a big deal.
However, can anyone tell me what's the difference between getting the 20mm lens or the 14-45 mm ( just getting into photography )?

Also, where do you guys buy your cameras. Montreal it's a meh city for technology stores, I don't like futureshop, best buy, etc. so I was thinking on getting it from amazon.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Hey guys, would you happen to know the type of camera The wispy scoundrel uses? That thing looks amazing. Although Im sure he takes his photos in photoshop and messes with the tint a bit - maybe even the focus.

 

[golem]

The mm indicator is the focal length (amount of zoom). For example, a 20mm lens is called a prime lens, because its view is always at a fixed distance. A 14-45mm on the other hand can go from 14mm (close) to 45mm (further away) and is a zoom lens.

To make it a bit more complicated these numbers are generally indicated for full frame 35mm sensor cameras.

So on a GF1 I believe it would be 2x crop factor (which means a full frame's sensor is about 2x the size of the GF1's sensor), so your 20mm is actually becomes a 40mm and your 14-45 is actually 28-90mm on the GF1.

TL DR the bigger the number the further the lens can reach.

 

[golem]

Hey guys, would you happen to know the type of camera The wispy scoundrel uses? That thing looks amazing. Although Im sure he takes his photos in photoshop and messes with the tint a bit - maybe even the focus.

Canon 40D I believe w/ great post processing work