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[ambientmystic]

I definitely agree that First has a better cast then Zeta. But that's not fair because First has the best cast of any anime ever. Every single character is awesome.

Even mooks like Slender or Dren.

I do like Zeta's cast for the most part though. Kamille is a pretty cool dude once he calms down. Emma is fantastic. Henken is a great captain and its a shame he doesn't get more screentime. The Titans were an interesting villain group and I loved how Jerid and Kamille's rivalry developed. Yeah certain characters development went weird, such as Reccoa's. But overall, it was a pretty decent cast.

Emma Sheen's one of my faves on Zeta too, she's actually pretty well written and has a great arc (I could actually believe that she would leave the Titans of her own free will due to her convictions and beliefs). Conversely, Ensign Reccoa's overall arc on the other hand is kinda messed up; for her to be subverted by the charms of Paptimus Scirroco was one of the most unlikeliest events on the show.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Was this a typo? But from my recollection, the 'vade/'vator thing isn't properly established until the movie, and only the movie. What with Ribbons talking about being 'vators all the time, it's confusing until Tieria corrects the audience after his assimilation with Veda.

I still think this needed to be explained in the series, rather than being reconciled in the movie, mainly due to the fact that 00 as a series ends pretty well and doesn't require a movie at all.

I'm pretty sure that was a typo.

And it has been a bit since I've seen it, but it is definitely clarified later on in the show, not sure if it is like last two episodes or a bit earlier than that. But I think that is kind of the point, you are supposed to doubt the plan, think that maybe Ribbons is full of shit, and then you find out for sure near the end.

 

[darthbob]

I'm pretty sure that was a typo.

And it has been a bit since I've seen it, but it is definitely clarified later on in the show, not sure if it is like last two episodes or a bit earlier than that. But I think that is kind of the point, you are supposed to doubt the plan, think that maybe Ribbons is full of shit, and then you find out for sure near the end.

Ah, you're right. It's explained near the tail end of the last episode.

 

[Blader]

Was this a typo? But from my recollection, the 'vade/'vator thing isn't properly established until the movie, and only the movie. What with Ribbons talking about being 'vators all the time, it's confusing until Tieria corrects the audience after his assimilation with Veda.

I still think this needed to be explained in the series, rather than being reconciled in the movie, mainly due to the fact that 00 as a series ends pretty well and doesn't require a movie at all.

:lol, yes, sorry about that. Meant I knew about it going into the movie.

Of course, its been a few years since I saw either the series or the movie, so I might be off. But I'm pretty sure the Innovator/Innovade distinction was made towards the end of S2. It may have been touched on more in the movie but I honestly can't remember.

 

[Megalosaro]

Emma Sheen's one of my faves on Zeta too, she's actually pretty well written and has a great arc (I could actually believe that she would leave the Titans of her own free will due to her convictions and beliefs). Conversely, Ensign Reccoa's overall arc on the other hand is kinda messed up; for her to be subverted by the charms of Paptimus Scirroco was one of the most unlikeliest events on the show.

I think there are a few things at play with Reccoa, though none of them were really portrayed that well.

Spoiler

She feels underappreciated in the AEUG. She particularly wants Char's attention, though he shrugs her off because he's actually a cold dude who doesn't give a fuck about other people's feelings. Scirocco was willing to pay attention to her, if only to manipulate her (which she realizes shortly before she dies)

Then of course there is that instant newtype attraction that has been portrayed ever since Amuro/Lalah. Scirocco is a particularly powerful newtype so that must have had an effect on Reccoa.

Also Reccoa is portrayed as not quite wanting to be a Titan, hence her resistance during her gassing operation. She doesn't want to be doing that but now she feels cornered. She practically begs the AEUG to stop her, but when they fail she then becomes completely disgusted with the organization, thus sealing the deal.

So yeah, none of that really makes sense but there IS some logic there. It definitely could have been executed better for sure.

Like the complaints about Katz, I think the Reccoa hatred is overblown. Yeah its stupid, but neither Katz nor Reccoa get that much screen time.

 

[PhiLonius]

Reccoa. Let's say I'm 41 episodes in and I just don't fucking get it.

There is nothing to get lol. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I do like Zeta's cast for the most part though. Kamille is a pretty cool dude once he calms down. Emma is fantastic. Henken is a great captain and its a shame he doesn't get more screentime. The Titans were an interesting villain group and I loved how Jerid and Kamille's rivalry developed. Yeah certain characters development went weird, such as Reccoa's. But overall, it was a pretty decent cast.

Emma Sheen's one of my faves on Zeta too, she's actually pretty well written and has a great arc (I could actually believe that she would leave the Titans of her own free will due to her convictions and beliefs). Conversely, Ensign Reccoa's overall arc on the other hand is kinda messed up; for her to be subverted by the charms of Paptimus Scirroco was one of the most unlikeliest events on the show.

Emma Sheen is one of my faves also. I really love the fact that there was no will she/won't she bullshit with her switch. They just showed her who the Titans truly were and that was it.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

:lol, yes, sorry about that. Meant I knew about it going into the movie.

Of course, its been a few years since I saw either the series or the movie, so I might be off. But I'm pretty sure the Innovator/Innovade distinction was made towards the end of S2. It may have been touched on more in the movie but I honestly can't remember.

Is it really addressed at all in the movie?

Spoiler

Other than Setsuna being special and turning into the Silver Surfer to save Earth from Galactus? And then time skip and innovators everywhere.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

There is nothing to get lol. It makes no sense whatsoever.






Emma Sheen is one of my faves also. I really love the fact that there was no will she/won't she bullshit with her switch. They just showed her who the Titans truly were and that was it.

I'm going to marathon 0079 Trilogy and Zeta Trilogy after I take a break, probably after ZZ. Does this get edited in a way too make it more palatable or not?

edit: Oops. I meant to copy and paste the quote into an edit of my old post.

And I like Emma's initial story, but she seems only alright after that. She trolls the Captain chinbeard on the Radish a bit, which is cool, but mostly she just seems to bitch at Kamille.

 

[PhiLonius]

Are you going to watch ZZ before 0079 and Z?

And Emma, like a bit of the cast in Zeta, at some point has to put Kamille in check/slap/punch/give him a stern talking to. These things happening make up half the show.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

No, I've already seen them/about to finish Zeta. Just don't want to watch the movie trilogy versions immediately after, so I'll probably watch them after I watch ZZ. I'm watching UC in chronological order, except for Unicorn, which I'll probably save for last.

And fair enough on your point.

 

[Megalosaro]

Go into ZZ with an open mind. I rather like it, but it IS a different kind of tone from the rest of the UC shows. I didn't mind too much because I watched G inbetween Z and ZZ, but going from Z to ZZ could be tough. That Mood whiplash

 

[CorvoSol]

No Trans-Am involved. Don't know why would that matter though, plenty of Gundam protagonists beat the final boss through powerups (CCA and Zeta immediately come to mind).
\

Because we were talking about Setsuna being unable to solve his problems without goddamn GN magic power ups, and not about what other protagonists have or have not done.

Setsuna killed his big rival through the magic of the worst song I have ever heard. That's what kind of show 00 is, and how I'll always, unfortunately, remember it.

 

[PhiLonius]

Go into ZZ with an open mind. I rather like it, but it IS a different kind of tone from the rest of the UC shows. I didn't mind too much because I watched G inbetween Z and ZZ, but going from Z to ZZ could be tough. That Mood whiplash

Yep. ZZ starts off a little lighthearted, especially coming off the end of Z. First 12-18 episodes or so are very different in tone, but after that it starts to ratchet back up a bit.

Plus there is Haman.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Yep. ZZ starts off a little lighthearted, especially coming off the end of Z. First 12-18 episodes or so are very different in tone, but after that it starts to ratchet back up a bit.

Plus there is Haman.

That is a good thing? I honestly expected to see more of her in Zeta, and I know she is in the last few episodes. But she has had about 10 minutes of screen time thus far.

 

[Megalosaro]

Haman is awesome.

Spoiler

If ZZ does have one flaw, it's that it doesn't explore her relationship with Char, since Char isn't even in the show. A damn shame to, since it was hinted at in Zeta.

And yes, I know about CDA. But I didn't like it that much.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Zeta had some pretty fuckin' amazing music. As in, perhaps the best in the entire franchise, as far as conveying a serious tone.

 

[nicoga3000]

Sorry to derail the anime talk, but I need some opinions.

I just finished assembling the 1/48 scale Zaku II and am getting ready to start disassembling him for paint. I don't really know much about Zaku II, so bear with me...I want to do a diorama style display piece with him. Anyone have any ideas/thoughts that would coincide with this guys "lore"?

Maybe that's a silly question, but I want to make sure I build the set and pose into something that "makes sense". Not pictured is the gun that's nearly as tall as he is.

E: For clarification, the biggest thing I'm concerned with is the location of the set. If he's a dessert or a forest Gundam, I don't want to display him in a tundra. Hopefully this all makes some sense, haha.

 

[PhiLonius]

Have him hiding in some trees, preparing for an ambush.

 

[Blader]

Because we were talking about Setsuna being unable to solve his problems without goddamn GN magic power ups, and not about what other protagonists have or have not done.

Setsuna killed his big rival through the magic of the worst song I have ever heard. That's what kind of show 00 is, and how I'll always, unfortunately, remember it.

But...the song had nothing to do with what was happening...

 

[CorvoSol]

But...the song had nothing to do with what was happening...

That's what I said, and yet there it was, everyone reacting to it, hearing it, and it distracting the villain so Setsuna could kill him.

 

[Jubern]

Wait no. Setsuna was DESTROYING him and was going to kill him despite being badly injured himself, but the song actually stopped him. I know people around here don't like 00S2 but don't go inventing things :x

 

[CorvoSol]

Wait no. Setsuna was DESTROYING him and was going to kill him despite being badly injured himself, but the song actually stopped him. I know people around here don't like 00S2 but don't go inventing things :x

Who's inventing what? Setsuna definitely kills him after that godawful shitastic song is beamed into everyone's skulls.


EDIT: OH GOD I WAS WRONG. ALI IS STILL ALIVE. FUCK THIS AWFUL SHOW.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Sorry to derail the anime talk, but I need some opinions.

I just finished assembling the 1/48 scale Zaku II and am getting ready to start disassembling him for paint. I don't really know much about Zaku II, so bear with me...I want to do a diorama style display piece with him. Anyone have any ideas/thoughts that would coincide with this guys "lore"?

Maybe that's a silly question, but I want to make sure I build the set and pose into something that "makes sense". Not pictured is the gun that's nearly as tall as he is.

E: For clarification, the biggest thing I'm concerned with is the location of the set. If he's a dessert or a forest Gundam, I don't want to display him in a tundra. Hopefully this all makes some sense, haha.

[IMhttp://i.imgur.com/CYnwlRk.jpg?1[/IMG]

Zaku II in green goes anywhere.

 

[EvilKatarn]

Come on, that song ain't so bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgB6fx2BmVk

I'd even go as far as to call it good, but then again what do I know. I'm a sucker for beautiful sounding female vocals.

Spoiler

I don't like that kids get in the song and mess it all up.

 

[Blader]

Oh wait, which scene are you guys talking about? I was referring to Setsuna/Ribbons.

 

[CorvoSol]

Come on, that song ain't so bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgB6fx2BmVk

I'd even go as far as to call it good, but then again what do I know. I'm a sucker for beautiful sounding female vocals.

Spoiler

I don't like that kids get in the song and mess it all up.

Oh, well, maybe the Japanese version is fine, but let me tell you that the English version is so awful I thought that it killed Ali and frankly, my life would've been better if it had, no matter how contrived that would have been. Ali Al Sachez is the worst Gauron ever.

Like, I cannot stress how awful a character Ali is. He is literally on par with the NPCs in Wing who ramble about peace and stuff, except he's all about war. The only reason he's tolerable is because worse characters like Ribbons, REVIVE REVIVAL and Nina Trinity exist.

Oh wait, which scene are you guys talking about? I was referring to Setsuna/Ribbons.

The fight between Ali Al Sachez and Setsuna. I haven't gotten to the fight between Setsuna and Ribbons yet. That'll be later today.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

It's funny reliving the indignity of Gundam 00's low points vicariously through CorvoSol.

 

[Megalosaro]

\
E: For clarification, the biggest thing I'm concerned with is the location of the set. If he's a dessert or a forest Gundam, I don't want to display him in a tundra. Hopefully this all makes some sense, haha.

Zakus are basically the work horse of the Zeon mobile suit corp. Though primarily designed for space combat, they fielded them all over the place during the war.

If I to do a diorama, I'd do this scene

 

[CorvoSol]

It's funny reliving the indignity of Gundam 00's low points vicariously through CorvoSol.

After this, I'll have finished AGE, 00, and Stardust Memory. Does that mean I'll have seen all the awful Gundam series?

Spoiler

I've seen Destiny, but there are four episodes I like in that run, so I can't hate.

 

[Megalosaro]

Have you seen Igloo yet? That's pretty bad.

In any case, 0083 redeems itself for "SOLOMON I HAVE RETURNED" the Moon arc

 

[KillerMan91]

So are the three movies good summary of the original Mobile Suit Gundam? Wanting to see the original storyline and watching three movies compared to complete 43 episodes series would be more ideal for me. Of course if the movies are missing a lot of important content I have to see the series.

 

[frye]

So are the three movies good summary of the original Mobile Suit Gundam? Wanting to see the original storyline and watching three movies compared to complete 43 episodes series would be more ideal for me. Of course if the movies are missing a lot of important content I have to see the series.

Yup. The Zeta movies' problems have to do with compressing a 50 episode show without a lot of filler into 3 1.5 hour movies. 0079's compress 43 monster-of-the-week style episodes into 3 2 hour movies.

 

[Megalosaro]

People say the movies look better than the TV show, but frankly that's only true of the third movie, which has a significant amount of new animation.

Gundam I is entirely recycled footage. Soldiers of Sorrow has a bit of new animation, but only like a few scenes. Encounters in Space have like 1/3rd of the movie newly animated.

 

[distantmantra]

I like the TV series, but the 0079 Trilogy is streamlined and cuts out some of the more ridiculous aspects that I didn't care for.

 

[ambientmystic]

I just had a heated discussion with a pal of mine who's also a fellow Gundam and SRW fanatic.

I heard arguments for and against, so help me settle this Gundam and also Super Robot Wars GAF; can the 1st Gundam series (and by extension the RX-78-2) be considered more of super robot anime than a real robot one as compared to its successors in the UC timeline (like Zeta and ZZ Gundam)?

 

[distantmantra]

I just had a heated discussion with a pal of mine who's also a fellow Gundam and SRW fanatic.

I heard arguments for and against, so help me settle this Gundam and also Super Robot Wars GAF; can the 1st Gundam series (and by extension the RX-78-2) be considered more of super robot anime than a real robot one as compared to its successors in the UC timeline (like Zeta and ZZ Gundam)?

The TV series of 0079 definitely has Super Robot elements (G-Armor), but you see the roots of the Real Robot genre in it. I think it's a Real Robot show, but since it's the first one, you're going to see some SR elements hanging around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_robot

But you'll always have the space wizard thing going on, which makes some people scoff at the "real robot" label.

 

[Megalosaro]

I'd say it's something like this in terms of "realness"

0079 = Zeta > Char's Counterattack >> ZZ

 

[Blader]

After this, I'll have finished AGE, 00, and Stardust Memory. Does that mean I'll have seen all the awful Gundam series?

Spoiler

I've seen Destiny, but there are four episodes I like in that run, so I can't hate.

ZZ and X are among the bad ones.

(preempative explanation for the angry replies: X wastes an interesting idea on dull pacing, boring characters, and awful animation)

 

[ambientmystic]

The TV series of 0079 definitely has Super Robot elements (G-Armor), but you see the roots of the Real Robot genre in it. I think it's a Real Robot show, but since it's the first one, you're going to see some SR elements hanging around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_robot

But you'll always have the space wizard thing going on, which makes some people scoff at the "real robot" label.

I'd say it's something like this in terms of "realness"

0079 = Zeta > Char's Counterattack >> ZZ

Thanks for your replies.

I personally hold a view akin to that of distantmantra's, which is that MSG was definitely influenced by the other Super Robot shows of it's era (Mazinger, Grendizer, Getter Robo, Daitarn-3 et.al), but laid the foundation for the Real Robot genre that was to be more popular in the coming 80s (Armored Trooper Votoms et.al.)

In my opinion, I think the OVAs are actually the ones that have little to no Super Robot qualities in them. MS 08th Team and 0080 are the "purest" Real Robot Gundam series in the UC timeline.

 

[Megalosaro]

I thought ZZ and X are both pretty good.

X does have problems though. I thought it wasted its post-apocalypse setting. If it had been Mad Max meets Gundam, it would have been awesome. I think Turn A does a better job of being post-apocalypse Gundam. Though it's more Post-Post Apocalypse than Post-Apocalypse.

 

[ambientmystic]

ZZ and X are among the bad ones.

(preempative explanation for the angry replies: X wastes an interesting idea on dull pacing, boring characters, and awful animation)

Almost no one on this forum will disagree with you on X. So much wasted potential there. Had a superb OP and ED soundtrack though imo. "DREAMS" and "RESOLUTION" by ROMANTIC MODE were great. Having the titular Gundam X fire it's doom bringing satellite beam cannons in the 1st couple of eps? Great! After that, not so great.

Opinions on ZZ are split down the middle. As much as I dislike the first half, I really enjoyed the second half of the series.

 

[Shouta]

Gundam X is great despite wasted potential and some flaws. There's a bit of charm because of it. It's far better than the idiocy that we get subjected to in some other Gundam series.

 

[Megalosaro]

I'll be honest. I think Tiffa is a bit overrated. I think she's alright. But she's too anime-demure to be interesting to me.

Garrod is a decent protagonist and the Jamil is in the franchise-best tier of characters. Everyone else is kind of eh. I don't care for the Frost brothers and consider them some of the most forgettable villains I've ever seen.

I'm also not fond of the mecha, other than the amazing Juracg Cold Climate Type.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICUu3kF-z94

Snowboard. Mobile. Suits.

Yesssss.

 

[PhiLonius]

X is kind of meh. Don't really love it or hate it. Nothing stands out too much. And the brother villains sucked.

One of the few good moments in the show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I1ZVjAJ8kg0#t=227s

One thing I do like is the progression in suit design between G, X, and then Wing. You can see a lot of specific similarities in some of the suits and can tell that some ideas weren't completely fleshed out until Wing.

 

[EvilKatarn]

Oh, well, maybe the Japanese version is fine, but let me tell you that the English version is so awful I thought that it killed Ali and frankly, my life would've been better if it had, no matter how contrived that would have been.

Obviously the English version of the song is not canon. I just checked out a bit of the dubbed version and I'm pretty sure I'd hate 00 too if I was forced to watch that.

Didn't like it a bit.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Finished up Zeta.

Pretty great finish.

Very densely packed

Spoiler

into the funeral home. Although I don't think anything felt cheap. Well, Katz running into an asteroid wasn't really necessary. Not like his little fighter would have been hard to shoot down regular.

Can't believe how they left

Spoiler

Kamille. I am going to assume they aren't going to leave him like that, because that is fucked. If they do they should have just killed him.

Also, I don't really get the Zeta power up against Yazan. Mystical newtype powers, I guess.

 

[Deadly]

I wanted to wait for the last episode of Unicorn to come out to watch them all uninterrupted... I lasted until ep 6 HOLY FUCK is this going to be a long wait.....

 

[EvilKatarn]

Can't believe how they left

Spoiler

Kamille. I am going to assume they aren't going to leave him like that, because that is fucked.

That ended up being one of my favorite things about Zeta.

The ending episodes were just a whirlpool of disaster. I especially loved the part where

Spoiler

Kamille and Emma were talking out in space and Kamille opened his visor. Just a prelude to him losing it.

 

[Jarate]

Alright guys, I want to watch a gundam series

Is there an order I should start with these shows, or should I just go randomly

 

[EvilKatarn]

Alright guys, I want to watch a gundam series

Is there an order I should start with these shows, or should I just go randomly

Mobile Suit Gundam movies, Zeta series, Char's Counterattack.

From there, go wherever. Unicorn or 00 for example.