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[SerArthurDayne]

That ended up being one of my favorite things about Zeta.

The ending episodes were just a whirlpool of disaster. I especially loved the part where

Spoiler

Kamille and Emma were talking out in space and Kamille opened his visor. Just a prelude to him losing it.

I thought that was just a ploy to get her head back in the game, and it worked.

Kamille, I see how he could get there coming from his pov and what Jerid says and the general way things end, but it is still bullshit that I hope gets fixed.

 

[PhiLonius]

You got to watch ZZ now.

 

[Hero]

Finished up Zeta.

Pretty great finish.

Very densely packed

Spoiler

into the funeral home. Although I don't think anything felt cheap. Well, Katz running into an asteroid wasn't really necessary. Not like his little fighter would have been hard to shoot down regular.

Can't believe how they left

Spoiler

Kamille. I am going to assume they aren't going to leave him like that, because that is fucked. If they do they should have just killed him.

Also, I don't really get the Zeta power up against Yazan. Mystical newtype powers, I guess.

Regarding Kamille they changed how it ends in the movie versions. The writer directly stated that the bleak ending for the Zeta TV series was a reflection of where he was in his life at the time.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

I could see it as a cost of war thing, but I think the cost was already pretty high.

Spoiler

although we did manage to avoid a colony drop or its equivalent this series!

 

[Lostconfused]

Finished up Zeta.

Pretty great finish.

Very densely packed

Spoiler

into the funeral home. Although I don't think anything felt cheap. Well, Katz running into an asteroid wasn't really necessary. Not like his little fighter would have been hard to shoot down regular.

Can't believe how they left

Spoiler

Kamille. I am going to assume they aren't going to leave him like that, because that is fucked. If they do they should have just killed him.

Also, I don't really get the Zeta power up against Yazan. Mystical newtype powers, I guess.

Now you can watch ZZ, you know the show that directly follows the one you just finished watching. Oh and that was the biosensor in the Zeta Gundam that made space magic happen.

Spoiler

although we did manage to avoid a colony drop or its equivalent this series!

You should definitely watch ZZ.

 

[Megalosaro]

There was a colony drop in Zeta. It just missed its target and wasn't a big deal because it was on the moon.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Now you can watch ZZ, you know the show that directly follows the one you just finished watching. Oh and that was the biosensor in the Zeta Gundam that made space magic happen.

You should definitely watch ZZ.

I thought you were the guy with the Judau avatar for a split second, and I was going to label this as blatant propoganda. It kind of hinted at something being built in to let him channel in the last episode without clarifying what the fuck they were talking about. Did they even hint at it earlier in the show?

And yeah, ZZ is queued up.

There was a colony drop in Zeta. It just missed its target and wasn't a big deal because it was on the moon.

Yeah, I guess to clarify I meant, no succesfull ones. They were several failures-

Spoiler

colony drop, laser blast, asteroid drop.

Speaking of asteroid drop, what exactly happened with axis? I know it showed part of it detaching, so they sent part of it to collide with A Bao Qu/Gates of Zedan, and sent the other part to Granada?

 

[ambientmystic]

One thing I do like is the progression in suit design between G, X, and then Wing. You can see a lot of specific similarities in some of the suits and can tell that some ideas weren't completely fleshed out until Wing.

Funny thing about your statement is that Wing (1995) came out a year before X (1996) yet looks so much more evolved and refined than X's designs. X's animations and mecha designs definitely felt like a regression instead of a progression as compared to Wing. Budget constraints.

 

[CorvoSol]

Funny thing about your statement is that Wing (1995) came out a year before X (1996) yet looks so much more evolved and refined than X's designs. X's animations and mecha designs definitely felt like a regression instead of a progression as compared to Wing. Budget constraints.

There is a fair amount of similarity between some of the mecha in G and W though. Burning Gundam looks a decent amount like the Wing, and the Shenlong/Altron Gundams were pretty clearly based on Dragon.

 

[Blader]

I thought you were the guy with the Judau avatar for a split second, and I was going to label this as blatant propoganda. It kind of hinted at something being built in to let him channel in the last episode without clarifying what the fuck they were talking about. Did they even hint at it earlier in the show?

And yeah, ZZ is queued up.



Yeah, I guess to clarify I meant, no succesfull ones. They were several failures-

Spoiler

colony drop, laser blast, asteroid drop.

Speaking of asteroid drop, what exactly happened with axis? I know it showed part of it detaching, so they sent part of it to collide with A Bao Qu/Gates of Zedan, and sent the other part to Granada?

Axis returns in ZZ and CCA.

 

[PhiLonius]

Funny thing about your statement is that Wing (1995) came out a year before X (1996) yet looks so much more evolved and refined than X's designs. X's animations and mecha designs definitely felt like a regression instead of a progression as compared to Wing. Budget constraints.

Wow. Always remembered it as the other way around. Definitely a step back then.

 

[Cloudy]

Bout to watch 6. I hear it's amazing.

PS: I really want to get these on Blu Ray but I'm not paying over $20 per DVD >_<

 

[Tookay]

Bout to watch 6. I hear it's amazing.

It's great, but you have to watch with the right expectations, because there's basically no action.

 

[CorvoSol]

Just finished A Wakening of the Trailblazer.

Gundam 00 is now the worst Gundam ever, and Gundam AGE has been promoted to second worst. How 00 ever got greenlit I'll never know. What I do know is I have zero desire to ever play SRW UX thanks to that awful show.

 

[Megalosaro]

I'd say AGE is like 3rd worst. Seed and Destiny (and Igloo) are all worse

 

[ambientmystic]

It's great, but you have to watch with the right expectations, because there's basically no action.

Which is perfect. The calm before the storm in the final episode.

 

[SousedLouse]

I'll be honest. I think Tiffa is a bit overrated. I think she's alright. But she's too anime-demure to be interesting to me.

Garrod is a decent protagonist and the Jamil is in the franchise-best tier of characters. Everyone else is kind of eh. I don't care for the Frost brothers and consider them some of the most forgettable villains I've ever seen.

I'm also not fond of the mecha, other than the amazing Juracg Cold Climate Type.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICUu3kF-z94

Snowboard. Mobile. Suits.

Yesssss.

Why is this the first time I've seen these suits!? There's a damned good reason for watching X right there! Are there any kits for this thing?

 

[Lostconfused]

How 00 ever got greenlit I'll never know.

It made money and sold merch. That's how anything ever works.

 

[Megalosaro]

@Soused

Sadly, not that I'm aware of. There might be some NG that was released back when X was still running, but they haven't really made any X kits since then. And somehow I doubt there was a kit made even back then, since they only focused on the main suit.

 

[SousedLouse]

@Soused

Sadly, not that I'm aware of. There might be some NG that was released back when X was still running, but they haven't really made any X kits since then. And somehow I doubt there was a kit made even back then, since they only focused on the main suit.

Ah, that's a shame. I love grunt suits, and it really is a nice design, even if it is a bit odd.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Still getting through SEED. Gundam Origin v1 was good fantastic ending moment, still dont know the significance of Char

Spoiler

mask removal reveal and the name for the lady or Amuro detecting Char in outer space

. v2 needs to hurry for the reveals.

Gundam Seed HD 33 (bd)

That line. Pretty interesting episode for the sake of the Cyclops System.

Spoiler

Changes my whole view on some characters in the Natural's forces. To think they'd sacrifice everybody their using microwaves (and so brutal) too was just unbelievable. This gundam has been a bit on the intense side in terms of things shown, people bursting in blood, then reminded me of the stuff on Junius Seven.

Last few minutes of freedom gundam being all epic and awesome wielding tons of guns and laser was really so far one of the highlights of the whole anime. Wanted to rewatch it again and again.

Spoiler

Athrun needs similar moments but it feels like they keep setting him up for some tragic end or something as all these bad events upon bad events land on him, and now Lacus thing.

 

[Lostconfused]

Gundam Origin v1 was good fantastic ending moment, still dont know the significance of Char

Spoiler

mask removal reveal and the name for the lady or Amuro detecting Char in outer space

. v2 needs to hurry for the reveals.

This a spoiler but a spoiler for a show that's more than 30 years old.

Edit: Screw it I'll even tag it as a spoiler. But these are all just plot points from mobile suit gundam which has been discussed to death in here in open and casual manner. I would imagine everyone here would already know this without even watching the show or the movies.

Spoiler

This was supposed to be a minor hint at the newtype potential that Amuro, Sayla, and Char(Casaval) have. The mask bit is there so that Sayla can see Char's face and realize that it's her older brother Casaval. Which would bring up a lot of questions for her, considering her background. Which The Origin explores far more deeply than the anime or the movies.

 

[Jubern]

Just finished A Wakening of the Trailblazer.

Gundam 00 is now the worst Gundam ever, and Gundam AGE has been promoted to second worst. How 00 ever got greenlit I'll never know. What I do know is I have zero desire to ever play SRW UX thanks to that awful show.

It seems like we are unfortunately bounded to be mortal enemies

 

[EvilKatarn]

Gundam 00 is now the worst Gundam ever

You're obviously insane.

 

[Megalosaro]

Still getting through SEED. Gundam Origin v1 was good fantastic ending moment, still dont know the significance of Char

Spoiler

mask removal reveal and the name for the lady or Amuro detecting Char in outer space

. v2 needs to hurry for the reveals.

You're in for a hell of a ride, kid. But yeah, I can't wait for next volume either.

Spoiler

Is the Garma funeral during the Garma arc or the Ramba Ral arc of Origin?

 

[54-46!]

Amazon UK finally shipped The Origin.. can't.. wait.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Watching ZZ right now, and I think it is pretty good, if flawed.

The story would certainly have benefited from some trimming and toning down of the camp factor, but it certainly doesn't ruin it.

Mashymre is a terrible villain, but his flashbacks to Haman are hilarious. I hope we get to see the real version of those events at some point in the series. Chara Soon seems ridiculous too, in all aspects of her character.

I know people have said that the tone changes pretty soon, so hopefully we can move into that pretty soon, as the ZZ just arrived on the scene. I certainly don't mind a bit of camp, but it is overtaking the show in the early episodes.

Is this a reaction to the bleakness of Zeta? Like the execs said, "Hey man, your job is to sell toys and not to make kids sad!" So this is a Spider-Man 3 fuck you type thing? Or is it just taking a cue from the popular series of the time, much like Transforming MSs in Zeta?

Judau seems pretty cool. I love how impressed he is with himself as a pilot despite being terrible thus far. Love his character design, too, including his Thriller jacket.. I guess this is the most realistic version of how someone would really perform just picking it up without any training. Bright seems a little too trusting that the newtype phenomenon will just carry on succesfully, but I guess he has nothing to lose with Fa and Torres as his only other pilot options.

It is also interesting seeing the improvement in art continue from last series to this, which is easier to see with recurring characters like Fa. I still don't get the deal with the flesh colored eyeballs of Bright, Katz, and various other persons. Is that just a way of distinguishing them? Are they supposed to be suggesting asian heritage? Is that racist to ask?

I know somebody earlier commented on Fa having forgotten how to pilot, but coming from Zeta it seems commensurate with her pervious skill level, plus the fact that the Methuss and Zeta are busted as fuck = she is slightly worse than usual. Well, I guess the Methuss was always a piece of shit, so being broken doesn't really matter in its case.

And I believe I have read that the only appearance by Char/Amuro is in the opening credits. Do we ever hear what they are up to in this time period, or is that left up the beginning of CCA?

 

[Megalosaro]

Hey bro, Mashymre is an awesome villain. I won't deal with you calling him terrible.

Franchise best IMHO.

HGUC Zssa when

 

[EvilKatarn]

Finished Turn-A.

It was rad.
The only thing I didn't like was, as I previously said here, that I didn't find the villains very strong. Gingnham could have been the fix for that, but even he fell flat in my opinion.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by Char.

Spoiler

Pirate Rhineford

was cool. That ending set to this tune was amazing.

Definitely among my top 3 Gundam series. Along with 00, so you know it's in good company!!

Now I need the MG Turn-A. Loved the design right out of the gate.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Definitely among my top 3 Gundam series. Along with 00, so you know it's in good company!!

Lol. 00 was the first series I saw. I obviously liked it enough to watch the others. It has some very large flaws that others have pointed out. And I understand CorvoSol's position, even is taking it as the worst. He hated it from early on, and when in my opinion it continues to get objectively worse over the course of Season 2 and the movie, I could see how you could take that personal and really hate it.

For me, I still like it, but I'm probably going to go with 0079 - War in the Pocket - Zeta - 00 - 08th MS team - Stardust Memory as my current rankings. Might be forgetting some of what I've seen thus far.

Oh, G-Gundam. I have a hard time ranking that one. I guess I would put in on par with 00 right now, and think more about it later.

And Wing, too! I'd probably put that on par with or just below 08th MS Team.

And Stardust Memory is the only one I haven't thought was very good to date, so this is just a spectrum of good to excellent, for the most part.

 

[ambientmystic]

Mashymre is a terrible villain, but his flashbacks to Haman are hilarious. I hope we get to see the real version of those events at some point in the series. Chara Soon seems ridiculous too, in all aspects of her character.

His extreme ineptitude is only real reason why the crew from the damaged Argama aren't toast in those initial camp filled episodes. Villain competence levels will rise soon when

Spoiler

Haman gets involved personally and that buffoon is sidelined to obscure henchman status, which is where he belongs. Her upcoming obsession/relationship with Judau is largely what salvages the series for me imo.

No comments about Yazan, SerArthurDayne? I'm disappoint.

And I believe I have read that the only appearance by Char/Amuro is in the opening credits. Do we ever hear what they are up to in this time period, or is that left up the beginning of CCA?

Very late ZZ spoilers

Spoiler

Bright and Sayla(!!!) have a chat about this at the penultimate episode of ZZ. Very, very awesome scene chock full of fan service by the otherwise missing Artesia who pretty much went AWOL after the end of Zeta

 

[SerArthurDayne]

His extreme ineptitude is only real reason why the crew from the damaged Argama aren't toast in those initial camp filled episodes. Villain competence levels will rise soon when

Spoiler

Haman gets involved personally and that buffoon is sidelined to obscure henchman status, which is where he belongs. Her upcoming obsession/relationship with Judau is largely what salvages the series for me imo.

No comments about Yazan, SerArthurDayne? I'm disappoint.

He is so insignificant I didn't even think to mention him. I like how he insisted on continuing to eat his hambone while he was trying to fight the Argama.

I think the way he is handled is out of character. He just likes to kill people. He would have sold his services to Axis no problem, because he is one of the best at doing that.

They very clearly showed his escape pod leaving the Hambrabi explosion in Zeta, and I just don't get the purpose of it if this was all they wanted to do with the character. At the same time, his rivalry is dead because there isn't really anyone left who knows who the fuck he is even.

Just goes to show the pettiness of the obsessions that the villains in these shows like Jerid, Graham from 00, etc. have.

Very late ZZ spoilers

Spoiler

Bright and Sayla(!!!) have a chat about this at the penultimate episode of ZZ. Very, very awesome scene chock full of fan service by the otherwise missing Artesia who pretty much went AWOL after the end of Zeta

I slowly pealed back that spoiler, as I've seen so many I wasn't too terrified, and I kind of know the gist of CCA anyways. What is the fucking deal with

Spoiler

Sayla after MSG. Do they have an acceptable explanation of why they tossed her character in favor of some useless, annoying blond in Zeta? Based on her cameo on Zeta, it seems she is living the hard life of a perpetual beach vacationer on Earth.

 

[ambientmystic]

I slowly pealed back that spoiler, as I've seen so many I wasn't too terrified, and I kind of know the gist of CCA anyways. What is the fucking deal with

Spoiler

Sayla after MSG. Do they have an acceptable explanation of why they tossed her character in favor of some useless, annoying blond in Zeta? Based on her cameo on Zeta, it seems she is living the hard life of a perpetual beach vacationer on Earth.

Generalized Zeta and CCA spoilers.

Spoiler

By useless annoying blond, are you referring to Beltorchika Irma?

Ironically she plays a much more prominent role in the alternate story as told in the novels, particularly the novelization of CCA:Beltorchika's Children which was the orignal script to the CCA movie that got rejected. She's actually the mother(!) of Amuro's kid in the novel; she got knocked up at the end of the Zeta timeline.

What they did with Sayla (marginalizing her character in the future UC series) had something to do with the seiyuu (VA) for the character I think. I'll have to dig it up, but the details are somewhere on the 'net.

And yeah I meant to say "at the end of MSG" in my spoiler.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Is recasting such a huge sin in the world of voice acting?

Spoiler

And yes, Beltorchicka was pretty much the worst person in Zeta. I guess she was half motivated by good intentions, and half motivated by hero worship and selfishness. But I didn't like her. And Sayla/Amuro seemed pretty obvious by the end of MSG and in consideration of the novels and such. And even if they didn't go that way, cause shit happens, Sayla should have been doing something. It seems out of character for her to be doing nothing. But I guess with the Zabis (mostly) dead you could say she is just chilling.

 

[Blader]

Beltorchika in Zeta is one of the worst Gundam characters ever.

Sayla wasn't in Zeta because her voice actor was on safari or something.

 

[CorvoSol]

I'd say AGE is like 3rd worst. Seed and Destiny (and Igloo) are all worse

SEED is miles ahead of AGE, if only because it's a rehash of MSG. Destiny's villain alone spares it from being as horrid as AGE. The tiers of awful are now as follows, going from least to most awful:

Destiny
Stardust Memory
AGE
00.

You're obviously insane.

If hating so clearly shitty a series is madness, let me never be sane again. After Lockon 1 bites it, there's nothing worth seeing in that show. NOTHING. The battles turn into a stupid mess of colored lines and circles, the characters cease to do anything important at all, a mess of new characters are introduced constantly just to make sure you're clear that the ones you met last episode don't matter, and there is no damn coherence. Suddenly Louise can pilot mecha! Suddenly Aeolia's plan is about aliens! Suddenly Kati and Billy don't know each other even though they're right next to each other in Kujo's flashback! Suddenly magical teleporting bullshit Gundams that never get explained.

00 is the worst thing in the Gundam franchise and I am not sorry for saying that.

It seems like we are unfortunately bounded to be mortal enemies

That's okay, aliens will bring me back from the dead anyway.

 

[frye]

I don't especially care for 00 at all but corvosol's vitriol for it is honestly baffling.

e: also seed as a rehash of msg being its saving grace doesn't really hold water when they miss the point on so many things it's ridiculous

 

[Blader]

SEED is miles ahead of AGE, if only because it's a rehash of MSG. Destiny's villain alone spares it from being as horrid as AGE. The tiers of awful are now as follows, going from least to most awful:

Durandal's character is a perfect example of why that show is a total failure.

 

[CorvoSol]

I don't especially care for 00 at all but corvosol's vitriol for it is honestly baffling.

e: also seed as a rehash of msg being its saving grace doesn't really hold water when they miss the point on so many things it's ridiculous

I didn't say it being a rehash was it's saving grace, I said it was to its benefit. Sometimes when you use a good thing as your base and go in another direction, you can get away with it. SEED got away with it.

On the other hand, sometimes you have bullshit space flowers as the crowning achievement for a series that wants you to take it seriously. Really not hard to see why someone might hate 00.

But here, let me do it without the vitriol:

1. Characters were not important to the plot, they were instead introduced and left to rot as newer ones were introduced. They had poor names and poorer motivations.
2. There was no coherence to what was going on, particularly in the second season. The first season was poorly executing a fairly clear plan: let's eradicate war by waging war. Season 2 makes no such pretense at coherence. It's just Ribbons Hallmark making trouble while Setsuna gets more and more ridiculously OP.
3. Aeolia's overall plan reaches levels of profound stupidity by the movie. How did one man in 2100 plan out a space flower that was supposed to happen some 500 years after his death? No one, not even the writers, seems to know.
4. Death means nothing in the show. Characters die and are revived, or replaced with identical characters.
5. Everyone has a gimmick. Whether it be split personalities, a super magical rainbow Gundam, or an identical clone brother. No one seems to be normal.

Durandal's character is a perfect example of why that show is a total failure.

Which I should hope is illustrative of just how terrible AGE's villain is. If they'd gone and made Flit the villain, or kept Ezelcant sympathetic instead of introducing that silly "plan" to make you hate him more than Flit, then the show would've been better than Destiny.

 

[Hero]

SEED is miles ahead of AGE, if only because it's a rehash of MSG. Destiny's villain alone spares it from being as horrid as AGE. The tiers of awful are now as follows, going from least to most awful:

Destiny
Stardust Memory
AGE
00.



If hating so clearly shitty a series is madness, let me never be sane again. After Lockon 1 bites it, there's nothing worth seeing in that show. NOTHING. The battles turn into a stupid mess of colored lines and circles, the characters cease to do anything important at all, a mess of new characters are introduced constantly just to make sure you're clear that the ones you met last episode don't matter, and there is no damn coherence. Suddenly Louise can pilot mecha! Suddenly Aeolia's plan is about aliens! Suddenly Kati and Billy don't know each other even though they're right next to each other in Kujo's flashback! Suddenly magical teleporting bullshit Gundams that never get explained.

00 is the worst thing in the Gundam franchise and I am not sorry for saying that.



That's okay, aliens will bring me back from the dead anyway.

Agree with your analysis of 00. What a piece of shit series.

 

[Megalosaro]

Sayla's lack of presence in later UC shows/movies is one of the biggest flaws with the franchise IMHO. At the very least, she should have had a role in CCA. Damn You Inoue and her wanting to go off on safaris.

Oh well I guess.

As for Beltorchika, when I first watched Zeta, I didn't like her either, but lately I've warmed up to her. Yeah, her first appearances on the show were annoying, but she was pretty cool during the Dakar arc.

Spoiler

and she wasn't too bad in Unicorn 5 either

 

[ambientmystic]

As for Beltorchika, when I first watched Zeta, I didn't like her either, but lately I've warmed up to her. Yeah, her first appearances on the show were annoying, but she was pretty cool during the Dakar arc.

Spoiler

and she wasn't too bad in Unicorn 5 either

Was she really in

Spoiler

Unicorn? It must've been such a small part, I can't recall it. Will have to do a 1-6 rewatch some time.

 

[Megalosaro]

Yep.

Spoiler

Bright contacts her in episode 5 to find out more information about the Vists, and to find out that the EFSF is sending the General Revil to take out the Nahel Argama.

 

[frye]

Bleh, I don't really want to argue this but what the fuck, right?

The difference between 00 and SEED is that they're fundamentally trying to do different things. 00, in its own way, is participating in the argument that 0080 and X were - "Gundam is bullshit." 0080 takes the route of showing that that real tragedy doesn't take the form of masses of people dying (i.e. UC Gundam), it's the deaths of individuals that make tragedy. X on the other hand is basically arguing that the idea of the Newtype and the conflict between Oldtypes/Newtypes are both dumb.

00's first season is essentially a takedown of SEED/Destiny. It's showing that the "war on war" aspect of the Cosmic Era universe is really really fucking stupid and doomed to failure (which is the point). 00's second season is essentially a takedown of Tomino's UC. It literally ends with Setsuna in the Exia (a very untraditional Gundam) defeating a character voiced by Toru Furuya in the RX78-2. Setsuna's character arc is complete when he realizes that trying to become *Gundam* (as he saw it as a kid) is ultimately a meaningless task. Kill Your Idols*.

THAT said, you could argue that 00 isn't really successful at doing this. Sure, I'll buy that. 00, and especially the movie, didn't really work for me either as a whole.

BUT! It's got a thematic through-line that SEED doesn't have. SEED takes 0079 as a base, yeah, but it's much much more aggravating because of that. It takes the conflict of Earth/Space (a metaphor for generational conflict) and.... turns it into a racial thing. It takes Ramba Ral... and completely fucks up his character by bringing him back to life. Is "racism is bad" the message? If so, why does Flay (the best character in the series) die after realizing this fact? Is it just punishment for being a jerk previously? The problem with SEED is that it completely lacks any self-awareness (and self-awareness, not incidentally, is what G Gundam has in spades and is what makes it the best ever).

00, for all its many faults, has something to say. Whether it succeeded or failed isn't the problem: it's at least trying to say something. SEED understands Gundam aesthetically, but everything else is just surface-level garbage.

*the worse thing about the movie is that it shows that beyond the takedowns, it doesn't have much left

 

[ambientmystic]

Flay (the best character in the series)

I was nodding my head to your post until I came to this sentence.

Why.gif

 

[frye]

I was nodding my head to your post until I came to this sentence.

Why.gif

Everyone else is terrible!

tbh I hated her too until I rewatched SEED last year. I like that she has... character development? She genuinely seems to grow as a person.

 

[Tookay]

Actually, I thought I was alone in thinking Flay was much better than people gave her credit for.

She may be a miserable, manipulative bitch for half the series - which is where I imagine most people's impressions of her are formed - but she actually has decent growth as flawed, if ultimately good, person.

She's not always "perfect" like all the other characters in the show... yet that's exactly the reason why she's a good character. She's more realistic as a teenage human being than overly-idealized Kira or Lacus ever are.

 

[EvilKatarn]

Everyone else is terrible!

Mu was a cool guy.

Especially when Kira slept with her and then Kira beat up his best friend.

Truly the most memorable moment in all of SEED

 

[Megalosaro]

I don't like Flay, but then again I don't like anyone in CE except maybe Durandal, and that's because he is voiced by Mr. Ikeda.

I hated the stupid crap she pulled. Especially when Kira slept with her and then Kira beat up his best friend. But I guess that's more of a Kira issue then a Flay issue.

 

[Blader]

Which I should hope is illustrative of just how terrible AGE's villain is. If they'd gone and made Flit the villain, or kept Ezelcant sympathetic instead of introducing that silly "plan" to make you hate him more than Flit, then the show would've been better than Destiny.

It's not like I was holding up AGE as the standard of getting it right.